Sexual Assault ~ Weinstein, Epstein, etc.

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foreverlax
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by foreverlax »

youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:07 pm I reached my paywall limit with the NYT. The headlines indicates "Homicide" as casuse of death. Can anyone post the details or is it just BS?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/30/nyre ... baden.html

"A forensic pathologist hired by Jeffrey Epstein’s brother said on Wednesday that evidence suggested that Mr. Epstein did not die by suicide, but may have been strangled.

The New York City medical examiner’s office concluded in August that Mr. Epstein had hanged himself in his jail cell while awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges.

But the private pathologist, Dr. Michael Baden, said on the morning TV show “Fox & Friends” that Mr. Epstein, 66, experienced a number of injuries — among them a broken bone in his neck — that “are extremely unusual in suicidal hangings and could occur much more commonly in homicidal strangulation.”

“I think that the evidence points to homicide rather than suicide,” said Dr. Baden, who observed the autopsy done by city officials.

Dr. Baden, a former New York City medical examiner and a Fox News contributor, added, “I’ve not seen in 50 years where that occurred in a suicidal hanging case.”

The findings by Dr. Baden were strongly disputed by the city’s chief medical examiner, Dr. Barbara Sampson, who previously ruled that Mr. Epstein’s death on Aug. 10 in the Metropolitan Correctional Center was a suicide.

“I stand firmly behind our determination of the cause and manner of death in this case,” Dr. Sampson said in an interview on Wednesday. She added: “In general, fractures of the hyoid bone and the cartilage can be seen in suicides and homicides.”

The hyoid is a bone near the Adam’s apple in a man.

Dr. Sampson also dismissed Dr. Baden’s contention that the circumstances around Mr. Epstein’s death suggested other people may have been involved. She said her office had done a “complete investigation,” taking into consideration information gathered by law enforcement in making the determination.

“No one finding can be taken in isolation,” she said.

Dr. Baden served briefly as New York City’s medical examiner. He was provisionally appointed to the position in 1978 and dismissed just a year later, by Mayor Edward I. Koch. In later years, he went on to work as a consultant on a number of high-profile cases.

On Wednesday, Dr. Baden said Mr. Epstein had “three fractures in the hyoid bone, the thyroid cartilage.” He said those injures were “very unusual for suicide and more indicative of strangulation — homicidal strangulation.”

The autopsy also showed Mr. Epstein had several bones broken in his neck. The city medical examiner said Mr. Epstein’s death was “hanging” and the manner was “suicide.”

Before that determination was made public, an article in The Washington Post noted Mr. Epstein’s injuries included a broken hyoid bone, an injury that could have been a sign of strangulation, as well as suicide by hanging.

The article helped fuel conspiracy theories that speculated Mr. Epstein may have been murdered in order to prevent him from ensnaring his coterie of rich and powerful friends into his legal woes.

At the time, several medical officials cautioned against relying solely on the broken hyoid as evidence of strangulation. “It’s not a slam dunk,” Marcella Sorg, a forensic anthropologist, said in an interview. She said a broken hyoid is “a sign of neck trauma” that can occur in both strangulation and hanging cases.

Dr. Burton Bentley II, the head of Elite Medical Experts, a consulting firm based in Arizona, echoed that skepticism. “It’s not a hundred percent,” he said. “It’s not even going to get us to ninety.”

Mr. Epstein’s death led to several investigations into how a high-profile inmate apparently killed himself just weeks after he was placed on suicide watch after a previous failed attempt to take his own life.

Mr. Epstein was a wealthy financier and convicted sex offender. He used his money and connections to get a widely criticized plea deal in Florida in 2008 after several teenage girls gave sworn statements to the police stating that Mr. Epstein had sexually abused them at his mansion in Palm Beach, Fla. He spent 13 months in jail, but was allowed to leave for 12 hours a day, six days a week.

In July, federal officials arrested Mr. Epstein at Teterboro Airport in New Jersey and charged him with sex trafficking. He was accused of luring numerous underage girls to his homes in New York City and Florida then coercing them to perform sex acts with him for money.

A spokesman for the United States attorney’s office in Manhattan had no comment on Dr. Baden’s statements about Mr. Epstein’s death.

The criminal case against Mr. Epstein was closed after his death, but in the final court hearing in August, Mr. Epstein’s lawyers said they were not satisfied with the city medical examiner’s findings.

On Wednesday, one of the lawyers, Martin Weinberg, said Dr. Baden’s comments on Fox were consistent with the concerns he had previously raised.

This is hardly the first time Dr. Baden has generated headlines. In 1979, the city health commissioner wrote a letter to Mr. Koch — who was the mayor at the time — saying that Dr. Baden had “exhibited poor judgment in many instances,” including when he said that it appeared former Governor Nelson Rockefeller “had died during sexual intercourse.” He denied saying the remark.

In 1995, when O.J. Simpson was on trial for the murders of his former wife and her companion, Dr. Baden testified that evidence pointed to Mr. Simpson’s innocence. He said that the timeline of Mr. Simpson’s whereabouts that night would not have given him enough time to commit the murders."
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youthathletics
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by youthathletics »

Thank you.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
Trinity
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by Trinity »

The Jeffrey’s retirement package was obviously suboptimal.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
seacoaster
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by seacoaster »

youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:18 pm Thank you.
You need an alibi for Mr. and Mrs. W. J. Clinton?
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youthathletics
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by youthathletics »

seacoaster wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:24 pm
youthathletics wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:18 pm Thank you.
You need an alibi for Mr. and Mrs. W. J. Clinton?
I don't, but they might. :lol:
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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holmes435
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by holmes435 »

And moreso on Mr. Trump and so many others. This kind of evil left unchecked is in my humble opinion one of the more heinous in our midst. I've been hard on PSU / MSU and Catholic Church stuff, but I can't in good faith ever let this stuff get normalized. It makes my blood boil.
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HooDat
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by HooDat »

holmes435 wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:11 pm And moreso on Mr. Trump and so many others. This kind of evil left unchecked is in my humble opinion one of the more heinous in our midst. I've been hard on PSU / MSU and Catholic Church stuff, but I can't in good faith ever let this stuff get normalized. It makes my blood boil.
I am right there with you. And this Epstein thing seems to go really, really deep.
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STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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ChairmanOfTheBoard
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by ChairmanOfTheBoard »

There are 29,413,039 corporations in America; but only one Chairman of the Board.
Peter Brown
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by Peter Brown »

I guess the Katie Hill convo belongs here.

To the resident Democrats: Hill is innocent until proven guilty obviously, even with texts and photos and an obvious power dynamic problem. But that is a right she did not afford Justice Brett Kavanaugh when she was branding him a “serial predator with absolutely no evidence.

Just be consistent. is that too hard?
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:47 am I guess the Katie Hill convo belongs here.

To the resident Democrats: Hill is innocent until proven guilty obviously, even with texts and photos and an obvious power dynamic problem. But that is a right she did not afford Justice Brett Kavanaugh when she was branding him a “serial predator with absolutely no evidence.

Just be consistent. is that too hard?
Are the texts/pictures what bother you, PB...the implication perhaps that she's a 'slut' who smokes pot, indeed has a wild past?

Or that she had a relationship with a campaign staffer, someone who she employed?
An "obvious power dynamic"?

If it's the "slut" stuff, hoo boy.

If it's the employee-power aspect, I agree that bosses should avoid sleeping with employees, though obviously that happens quite often. The question, really, is/was any particular such event influenced by that power dynamic or was it a matter of mutual attraction? If someone feels compelled else they may lose their job or an opportunity, that's a very big problem. But if not, it's certainly not any sort of 'assault'. We may think something is quite inappropriate (ala how I feel about Bill and Monica, huge age differential as well as the employee-power status), but it's not 'assault'.

To compare this with the allegations of assault and rape re Kavanaugh seems quite disingenuous to me, but ahhh that's what we get in this 'whataboutism' partisan world.

As to "evidence", there was ample testimony presented as such.
But assault and rape claims are very difficult to 'prove' on the basis of victim testimony alone.
Doesn't make them not true, but also doesn't make them believable in all cases.
But there definitely was 'evidence' presented.
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old salt
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:24 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:47 am I guess the Katie Hill convo belongs here.

To the resident Democrats: Hill is innocent until proven guilty obviously, even with texts and photos and an obvious power dynamic problem. But that is a right she did not afford Justice Brett Kavanaugh when she was branding him a “serial predator with absolutely no evidence.

Just be consistent. is that too hard?
Are the texts/pictures what bother you, PB...the implication perhaps that she's a 'slut' who smokes pot, indeed has a wild past?

Or that she had a relationship with a campaign staffer, someone who she employed?
An "obvious power dynamic"?

If it's the "slut" stuff, hoo boy.

If it's the employee-power aspect...
There you go again. From the outset, PB has made it clear that he's discussing the power disparity & nothing else.
Yet that doesn't deter you from erecting a slut shaming strawman to topple.

She allegedly violated House rules & resigned before the Ethics Comm investigation could implicate her staffer.
Look at what Franken was forced (by his own caucus) to resign for.
This is Speaker Nancy cleaning her caucus closet.
a fan
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by a fan »

Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:47 am I guess the Katie Hill convo belongs here.

To the resident Democrats: Hill is innocent until proven guilty obviously, even with texts and photos and an obvious power dynamic problem. But that is a right she did not afford Justice Brett Kavanaugh when she was branding him a “serial predator with absolutely no evidence.

Just be consistent. is that too hard?
Sure. Does that mean you think Kavanaugh should resign, as Hill did?

Which is it that you're advocating for here: do you want the bar for behavior lowered, or raised for our public servants?
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:47 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:24 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:47 am I guess the Katie Hill convo belongs here.

To the resident Democrats: Hill is innocent until proven guilty obviously, even with texts and photos and an obvious power dynamic problem. But that is a right she did not afford Justice Brett Kavanaugh when she was branding him a “serial predator with absolutely no evidence.

Just be consistent. is that too hard?
Are the texts/pictures what bother you, PB...the implication perhaps that she's a 'slut' who smokes pot, indeed has a wild past?

Or that she had a relationship with a campaign staffer, someone who she employed?
An "obvious power dynamic"?

If it's the "slut" stuff, hoo boy.

If it's the employee-power aspect...
There you go again. From the outset, PB has made it clear that he's discussing the power disparity & nothing else.
Yet that doesn't deter you from erecting a slut shaming strawman to topple.

She allegedly violated House rules & resigned before the Ethics Comm investigation could implicate her staffer.
Look at what Franken was forced (by his own caucus) to resign for.
This is Speaker Nancy cleaning her caucus closet.
How about we let PB speak for himself, Salty?
I do agree with you that the Dems have themselves in a zero tolerance #METOO posture.

On the "slut shaming", sure seems to me that's what the photos are all about, and no, PB has been quite actively focused on the photos, only just now mentioning the "power dynamic problem" and then the comparison to Kavanaugh who was accused of assault and rape.

But let's allow him to clear that up for himself.
Peter Brown
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by Peter Brown »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:37 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:47 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:24 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:47 am I guess the Katie Hill convo belongs here.

To the resident Democrats: Hill is innocent until proven guilty obviously, even with texts and photos and an obvious power dynamic problem. But that is a right she did not afford Justice Brett Kavanaugh when she was branding him a “serial predator with absolutely no evidence.

Just be consistent. is that too hard?
Are the texts/pictures what bother you, PB...the implication perhaps that she's a 'slut' who smokes pot, indeed has a wild past?

Or that she had a relationship with a campaign staffer, someone who she employed?
An "obvious power dynamic"?

If it's the "slut" stuff, hoo boy.

If it's the employee-power aspect...
There you go again. From the outset, PB has made it clear that he's discussing the power disparity & nothing else.
Yet that doesn't deter you from erecting a slut shaming strawman to topple.

She allegedly violated House rules & resigned before the Ethics Comm investigation could implicate her staffer.
Look at what Franken was forced (by his own caucus) to resign for.
This is Speaker Nancy cleaning her caucus closet.
How about we let PB speak for himself, Salty?
I do agree with you that the Dems have themselves in a zero tolerance #METOO posture.

On the "slut shaming", sure seems to me that's what the photos are all about, and no, PB has been quite actively focused on the photos, only just now mentioning the "power dynamic problem" and then the comparison to Kavanaugh who was accused of assault and rape.

But let's allow him to clear that up for himself.


What Old Salt said is exactly what I would have said.

btw, I am the furthest thing you will ever find from someone who judges another's sexual choices. I wouldn't care if you announced you were marrying a fire hydrant. This story is about power disparity.
Peter Brown
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by Peter Brown »

a fan wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:58 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:47 am I guess the Katie Hill convo belongs here.

To the resident Democrats: Hill is innocent until proven guilty obviously, even with texts and photos and an obvious power dynamic problem. But that is a right she did not afford Justice Brett Kavanaugh when she was branding him a “serial predator with absolutely no evidence.

Just be consistent. is that too hard?
Sure. Does that mean you think Kavanaugh should resign, as Hill did?

Which is it that you're advocating for here: do you want the bar for behavior lowered, or raised for our public servants?


Not at all. Kavanaugh's 'accusations', such as they are, are all over 30 years old. Several are laughable; Christine Blasey Ford's father disavowed her comments, and several of her family called her a 'cuckoo'; I agree. He's led a pretty friggin remarkably decent life so far as I can tell. Seems like a good dad, husband, friend, scholar.

But let's stick with the aging of the accusations. Kavanaugh's accusations are from high school and college. Literally I could not care less what he or you did in college if you were in college 30 years ago. I'd forgive you for anything short of murder. Hill's accusations are not only buttressed with hard evidence but are as recent as today. Try to be consistent about how we hold standards of 'don't sleep with your employees', and especially if you are a government employer like Hill, and especially if it happened like say last week. Kavanaugh was a private citizen in high school so far as I can tell.

Oh yeah, before you go ballistic with my assessment of old Brett; I think he's a terrible SCOTUS justice. He's a big-government, low civil liberty defender on the court. So please don't go all in with the expected 'yeah you love Kavanaugh' angle. It doesn't work. He definitely ain't my kind of justice. That doesn't mean I can't smell bs a mile away.
DMac
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by DMac »

Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:15 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:37 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:47 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:24 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:47 am I guess the Katie Hill convo belongs here.

To the resident Democrats: Hill is innocent until proven guilty obviously, even with texts and photos and an obvious power dynamic problem. But that is a right she did not afford Justice Brett Kavanaugh when she was branding him a “serial predator with absolutely no evidence.

Just be consistent. is that too hard?
Are the texts/pictures what bother you, PB...the implication perhaps that she's a 'slut' who smokes pot, indeed has a wild past?

Or that she had a relationship with a campaign staffer, someone who she employed?
An "obvious power dynamic"?

If it's the "slut" stuff, hoo boy.

If it's the employee-power aspect...
There you go again. From the outset, PB has made it clear that he's discussing the power disparity & nothing else.
Yet that doesn't deter you from erecting a slut shaming strawman to topple.

She allegedly violated House rules & resigned before the Ethics Comm investigation could implicate her staffer.
Look at what Franken was forced (by his own caucus) to resign for.
This is Speaker Nancy cleaning her caucus closet.
How about we let PB speak for himself, Salty?
I do agree with you that the Dems have themselves in a zero tolerance #METOO posture.

On the "slut shaming", sure seems to me that's what the photos are all about, and no, PB has been quite actively focused on the photos, only just now mentioning the "power dynamic problem" and then the comparison to Kavanaugh who was accused of assault and rape.

But let's allow him to clear that up for himself.


What Old Salt said is exactly what I would have said.

btw, I am the furthest thing you will ever find from someone who judges another's sexual choices. I wouldn't care if you announced you were marrying a fire hydrant. This story is about power disparity.
BS, the story is not about power disparity, it's about slut shaming and porn revenge. Nothing more.
Question, but not for the release of the nude photos with the iron cross tattoo, what would the discusion
about Hill be today?
Al Franken got screwed too.
Peter Brown
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by Peter Brown »

DMac wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:27 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:15 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:37 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:47 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:24 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:47 am I guess the Katie Hill convo belongs here.

To the resident Democrats: Hill is innocent until proven guilty obviously, even with texts and photos and an obvious power dynamic problem. But that is a right she did not afford Justice Brett Kavanaugh when she was branding him a “serial predator with absolutely no evidence.

Just be consistent. is that too hard?
Are the texts/pictures what bother you, PB...the implication perhaps that she's a 'slut' who smokes pot, indeed has a wild past?

Or that she had a relationship with a campaign staffer, someone who she employed?
An "obvious power dynamic"?

If it's the "slut" stuff, hoo boy.

If it's the employee-power aspect...
There you go again. From the outset, PB has made it clear that he's discussing the power disparity & nothing else.
Yet that doesn't deter you from erecting a slut shaming strawman to topple.

She allegedly violated House rules & resigned before the Ethics Comm investigation could implicate her staffer.
Look at what Franken was forced (by his own caucus) to resign for.
This is Speaker Nancy cleaning her caucus closet.
How about we let PB speak for himself, Salty?
I do agree with you that the Dems have themselves in a zero tolerance #METOO posture.

On the "slut shaming", sure seems to me that's what the photos are all about, and no, PB has been quite actively focused on the photos, only just now mentioning the "power dynamic problem" and then the comparison to Kavanaugh who was accused of assault and rape.

But let's allow him to clear that up for himself.


What Old Salt said is exactly what I would have said.

btw, I am the furthest thing you will ever find from someone who judges another's sexual choices. I wouldn't care if you announced you were marrying a fire hydrant. This story is about power disparity.
BS, the story is not about power disparity, it's about slut shaming and porn revenge. Nothing more.
Question, but not for the release of the nude photos with the iron cross tattoo, what would the discusion
about Hill be today?
Al Franken got screwed too.

The story is about revenge porn to you because you’re a partisan who won’t or can’t admit he’s a partisan.

The actual story is about power dynamics between employer and employee. There is actually a congressional law against what Katie did and is doing. That’s why she resigned.

I couldn’t care less in many regards that she did what she did. What I care about is consistent standards. If you’re going to filet a guy over nonsensical accusations from 30 years ago, why not be more forceful if they’re happening today? Is there any doubt how you’d be typing right now if some male congressman was knocking knees with two female assistants ten years younger while he held their paychecks in his control? Please don’t say you’d be cool with that.
a fan
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by a fan »

Peter Brown wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:22 pm Not at all. Kavanaugh's 'accusations', such as they are, are all over 30 years old. Several are laughable; Christine Blasey Ford's father disavowed her comments, and several of her family called her a 'cuckoo'; I agree. He's led a pretty friggin remarkably decent life so far as I can tell. Seems like a good dad, husband, friend, scholar.
You really have to stop doing this. You accuse the left of "doing something wrong"......moments before you do the exact same thing you just accused the left of doing.


My point is, none of it went to court for either party. All unconfirmed accusations of Kavanaugh and Hill, both good and bad.

Yet you're acting like you've got the truth with Hill's story, when all you have is some stuff "some guy" put out on the internet.

So yep, I'd be delighted if you were evenhanded about this.



"Hold my beer", is what the kids call what you're doing here.....


One thing that's nice is that you have finally figured out that you're a socialist. :lol: ;)

Glad you're enjoying my taxpayer money, and I wish you all the success in the world with your heavily subsidized company;. Truly.
DMac
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by DMac »

Peter Brown wrote

The story is about revenge porn to you because you’re a partisan who won’t or can’t admit he’s a partisan.
This is a swing and a miss on an 0-2 count in the bottom of the ninth, PB, I'm no partisan. I couldn't have told you if she was a D or R (and I don't care what she is) when the story broke, I just knew this gal was getting the slut shame by an ex husband who thought she and all her sexual appetite was cat's a*s*s before she left him.
The actual story is about power dynamics between employer and employee. There is actually a congressional law against what Katie did and is doing. That’s why she resigned.
This is BS, she didn't resign because of any of that, that's just what she had to say with her back up against the wall. She hasn't done anything more than many of the folks she was speaking to regarding the congressional law (as she let them know) she resigned because there were more pictures and smut stories coming from her jeleaous, chickenschidt, ex husband. That's the only reason she resigned (was forced to).



I couldn’t care less in many regards that she did what she did. What I care about is consistent standards. If you’re going to filet a guy over nonsensical accusations from 30 years ago, why not be more forceful if they’re happening today? Is there any doubt how you’d be typing right now if some male congressman was knocking knees with two female assistants ten years younger while he held their paychecks in his control? Please don’t say you’d be cool with that.
I wouldn't be cool with that and I'm not at all convinced that's what KH was doing. So you're saying KH held the young service stud's paychecks in her hand sitting naked on her bed and demanded a performance from both before she'd hand them their checks? I'm not thinking it all went down that way.[color]
Peter Brown
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Re: Sexual Assault ~ #MeToo ~ #TimesUp for Epstein's friends

Post by Peter Brown »

I’m going to cut the quote posts because they’re getting long.

DMAC: that is exactly what she was doing. These are her employees. I agree, her husband is despicable. But that’s irrelevant. You CANNOT have agency over your employees careers and paychecks, while also having have an intimate relationship with them. There is a law against that, in Congress, let alone basic societal standards! This is one of the key principles of MeToo.

It’s also irrelevant whether her partners are good with it. Because at some level they have no choice should they prioritize their paycheck.

I’m not certain why this is so difficult to process.
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