Trump's Russian Collusion

[jhu72]

How do you "prove it" without an indictment and trial? So you are a saying "prove it" and then you can indict him. Yes, that will work.

[MDlaxfan76]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

Do you really imagine that your "hypothetical" could be true??

Your hypothetical is that the "last admin" (Obama and his subordinates) "set up the Trump team" (Do you mean that Veselnitskya was actually a CIA agent, not a Russian agent or the Russian fellow sending her to ostensibly offer dirt on HRC was actually a CIA agent or that Don Jr didn't actually welcome that dirt? or are you saying that the IC has collectively, including all the Trump appointees, been lying that the Russians hacked, the Russian's created false identities, the Russians employed bots to support Trump, hurt HRC...perhaps they 'set up' Trump to get him to respond as he did to Butina, maybe she too was a CIA agent??? maybe Manafort was really a CIA agent, and "set up" Trump by offering to work for no money???), and then "lied to the country"...again all those Trump IC appointees have been lying too???

But sure, I wouldn't be shocked if bad stuff has been covered up by prior administrations, whether D or R.
I'm for nailing any and all such.

But this Trumpist "hypothetical" is nonsense on its face.

You didn't answer the question.

Ahhh, you expect me to take it seriously, the hypothetical I laid out in greater detail?

Well, sure, if we found that these folks were all CIA agents not actually Russians working on behalf of Putin, it would certainly be a huge eye-opener and I would no longer believe that Trump welcomed foreign interference from Russia, indeed that such notion was a 'set up'...except that I heard him do so with my own ears...so...again, it's really, really hard to take your hypothetical seriously.

As I said, wrongdoing should be nailed, doesn't matter who.

What's amazing to me is that Trumpists actually buy into this nonsense.
Just because Der Leader tells them to do so.

[tech37]

How do you "prove it" without an indictment and trial? So you are a saying "prove it" and then you can indict him. Yes, that will work.

I was joking genius...

[MDlaxfan76]

afan,
In writing - tell me what he did wrong - you can tell me he is an arse, you can tell me he is uncoventional, you can tell me he stole money, you can tell me he is a thief and a turd$head of a business man who screws everyone (ever done business with car people?)- I used to to deal with business people (man and women) who did the the same - he was duly elected - there has been nothing but one investigation after another, he has not been found of a crime after 3 year years and you ALL keep whining - you are the boys/women who keep calling that the sky is falling. I am at the point that I may vote for the damn dude.........that is allot of buttons to get me there. Get over your yourself and move on. If a D wins, what happens to that person? You and others are making a grave mistake......MOVE ON please for the benefit of most people. Big country go and visit it. AND PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A TRUMPIST OR APOLOGISTS AS YOUR ARE FAR FROM FROM THE TRUTH.

On a lighter note, I hope Khaki pants kicks the the dump out of ND - I have 4 scars on two knees from the good Catholic boys - I will make amends and light a candle tomorrow

LandM,
Unfortunately, you really can't avoid the labels, even if you deny them shouting in all caps.

Ah your constant labeling mdlax

It's OK, I understand you make sense of your world by compartmentalizing, labeling... gives you a sense of security in your elitist bubble I guess. It's tough being an old white guy these days isn't it

Actually, I didn't "label" LandM, just made clear that when he repeats baloney out of the Trumpist playbook, that invites folks to see him that way, no matter what caps he uses to deny those labels.

I guess that makes me an "elitist" how?
Are you labeling, compartmentalizing me?
No worries, I can take it with a smile.

and, yeah, I'm almost 62 (old by many folks' standards) and I'm white and a guy.
I'm cool with that too.
You won't get any whining from me about how "tough" it is to be an "old white guy these days".

[tech37]

afan,
In writing - tell me what he did wrong - you can tell me he is an arse, you can tell me he is uncoventional, you can tell me he stole money, you can tell me he is a thief and a turd$head of a business man who screws everyone (ever done business with car people?)- I used to to deal with business people (man and women) who did the the same - he was duly elected - there has been nothing but one investigation after another, he has not been found of a crime after 3 year years and you ALL keep whining - you are the boys/women who keep calling that the sky is falling. I am at the point that I may vote for the damn dude.........that is allot of buttons to get me there. Get over your yourself and move on. If a D wins, what happens to that person? You and others are making a grave mistake......MOVE ON please for the benefit of most people. Big country go and visit it. AND PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A TRUMPIST OR APOLOGISTS AS YOUR ARE FAR FROM FROM THE TRUTH.

On a lighter note, I hope Khaki pants kicks the the dump out of ND - I have 4 scars on two knees from the good Catholic boys - I will make amends and light a candle tomorrow

LandM,
Unfortunately, you really can't avoid the labels, even if you deny them shouting in all caps.

Ah your constant labeling mdlax

It's OK, I understand you make sense of your world by compartmentalizing, labeling... gives you a sense of security in your elitist bubble I guess. It's tough being an old white guy these days isn't it

Actually, I didn't "label" LandM, just made clear that when he repeats baloney out of the Trumpist playbook, that invites folks to see him that way, no matter what caps he uses to deny those labels.

I guess that makes me an "elitist" how? Now that's funny. Please read some of your posts sometime...the imperious tone...
Are you labeling, compartmentalizing me? Yep, it's how I get by in my "angry fog." Have to admit, that was your best line ever.
No worries, I can take it with a smile.

and, yeah, I'm almost 62 (old by many folks' standards) and I'm white and a guy.
I'm cool with that too.
You won't get any whining from me about how "tough" it is to be an "old white guy these days". JFTR, I'm older than you

[MDlaxfan76]

MD and Forever,
Name one thing the guy has been found guilty of, sentenced by his peers, and is appealing. You cannot as there is NOT one. Hillary IMHO should be in a jail cell for gross negligence of her email server - is she doing time? Nope. Am I made about it, yes, but I have gotten over it, yes. Take some some low level schmuck - guarantee you they would be - rules are applied differently and that is why we have what we have. So, again, I am not the brightest tool in the shed, what laws has he broken. Before last night I thought a few of you were the Astro's offense - swing and a miss.

My spouse a hard core D spent 34 years as a bureaucrat. We are as opposite as they come. I used to ask why do you do that - well that is the way it has been done for the past 100 years - break china man. She in the last election refused to vote for Cuomo - why - he promised the roads would always be open. I was taught growing up in NV, never pi$$ in the wind - some of you all might want to learn that lesson - you have nothing and Nancy knows that - and wait, wait, wait, one more wait there is an ELECTION

Go Nats, Go khaki pants maybe he can beat a ranked team, go Whiskey as I hate buckeyes, and go no names with black cleats

Huh???

HRC is not immune to indictment or conviction. Go ahead, indict and convict her. Have at it.
Trump's in control, so why is "Lock her up" not been done if she's actually guilty of a crime?
I'll cheer if she's nailed for an actual crime, never liked her.
(of course, you are ignoring that the Trump State Dept just cleared her again).

But Trump, according to his DOJ, run by an AG with the most expansive view of the power of the Executive, CANNOT BE INDICTED.

While POTUS.

Which in no way means he's innocent of the crimes that have been laid out repeatedly.
Do you not actually read this thread?

[LandM]

MD,
For the last flippin time - and I kept my lower case letters on - I did not vote for the President in the last election and will probably not vote for the same category this time - get over it man - give me someone I can get behind and I will vote - what you are holding in a poker game is an empty hand. He$$ out here I have been called a traitor for not voting - me and Tulsi now I would vote for her. Get over it and no I do not need to get my Websters out and use fancy, pantsy words to make my point. Unfortunately you like to box people in corners and your swinging............wait for it, missing......and wait for it, there is an election .

Bottom line is you and others are keep screaming fire that the world is not gonna end in 12 years . I have heard that most of my life.

[MDlaxfan76]

afan,
In writing - tell me what he did wrong - you can tell me he is an arse, you can tell me he is uncoventional, you can tell me he stole money, you can tell me he is a thief and a turd$head of a business man who screws everyone (ever done business with car people?)- I used to to deal with business people (man and women) who did the the same - he was duly elected - there has been nothing but one investigation after another, he has not been found of a crime after 3 year years and you ALL keep whining - you are the boys/women who keep calling that the sky is falling. I am at the point that I may vote for the damn dude.........that is allot of buttons to get me there. Get over your yourself and move on. If a D wins, what happens to that person? You and others are making a grave mistake......MOVE ON please for the benefit of most people. Big country go and visit it. AND PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A TRUMPIST OR APOLOGISTS AS YOUR ARE FAR FROM FROM THE TRUTH.

On a lighter note, I hope Khaki pants kicks the the dump out of ND - I have 4 scars on two knees from the good Catholic boys - I will make amends and light a candle tomorrow

LandM,
Unfortunately, you really can't avoid the labels, even if you deny them shouting in all caps.

Ah your constant labeling mdlax

It's OK, I understand you make sense of your world by compartmentalizing, labeling... gives you a sense of security in your elitist bubble I guess. It's tough being an old white guy these days isn't it

Actually, I didn't "label" LandM, just made clear that when he repeats baloney out of the Trumpist playbook, that invites folks to see him that way, no matter what caps he uses to deny those labels.

I guess that makes me an "elitist" how? Now that's funny. Please read some of your posts sometime...the imperious tone...
Are you labeling, compartmentalizing me? Yep, it's how I get by in my "angry fog." Have to admit, that was your best line ever.
No worries, I can take it with a smile.

and, yeah, I'm almost 62 (old by many folks' standards) and I'm white and a guy.
I'm cool with that too.
You won't get any whining from me about how "tough" it is to be an "old white guy these days". JFTR, I'm older than you

"imperious tone".
Ok, if that's how you read me, that's how you read me.
But "arrogant and domineering" is not my intent.
I do try to be clear in my language, and as forceful with my views as I can be while not being too insulting.
I do sometimes slip into being a bit sarcastic at times, sometimes get a bit testy.

Perhaps that's "imperious" to you.

Well, fellow "old white guy", do we really need to whine about being such?
I'd rather be younger...but hey, getting older beats the alternative.

[tech37]

afan,
In writing - tell me what he did wrong - you can tell me he is an arse, you can tell me he is uncoventional, you can tell me he stole money, you can tell me he is a thief and a turd$head of a business man who screws everyone (ever done business with car people?)- I used to to deal with business people (man and women) who did the the same - he was duly elected - there has been nothing but one investigation after another, he has not been found of a crime after 3 year years and you ALL keep whining - you are the boys/women who keep calling that the sky is falling. I am at the point that I may vote for the damn dude.........that is allot of buttons to get me there. Get over your yourself and move on. If a D wins, what happens to that person? You and others are making a grave mistake......MOVE ON please for the benefit of most people. Big country go and visit it. AND PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A TRUMPIST OR APOLOGISTS AS YOUR ARE FAR FROM FROM THE TRUTH.

On a lighter note, I hope Khaki pants kicks the the dump out of ND - I have 4 scars on two knees from the good Catholic boys - I will make amends and light a candle tomorrow

LandM,
Unfortunately, you really can't avoid the labels, even if you deny them shouting in all caps.

Ah your constant labeling mdlax

It's OK, I understand you make sense of your world by compartmentalizing, labeling... gives you a sense of security in your elitist bubble I guess. It's tough being an old white guy these days isn't it

Actually, I didn't "label" LandM, just made clear that when he repeats baloney out of the Trumpist playbook, that invites folks to see him that way, no matter what caps he uses to deny those labels.

I guess that makes me an "elitist" how? Now that's funny. Please read some of your posts sometime...the imperious tone...
Are you labeling, compartmentalizing me? Yep, it's how I get by in my "angry fog." Have to admit, that was your best line ever.
No worries, I can take it with a smile.

and, yeah, I'm almost 62 (old by many folks' standards) and I'm white and a guy.
I'm cool with that too.
You won't get any whining from me about how "tough" it is to be an "old white guy these days". JFTR, I'm older than you

"imperious tone".
Ok, if that's how you read me, that's how you read me.
But "arrogant and domineering" is not my intent.
I do try to be clear in my language, and as forceful with my views as I can be while not being too insulting.
I do sometimes slip into being a bit sarcastic at times, sometimes get a bit testy.

Perhaps that's "imperious" to you.

Well, fellow "old white guy", do we really need to whine about being such?
I'd rather be younger...but hey, getting older beats the alternative.

If I wasn't trying to raise a teen in today's environment...no whining, my "cross to bear."

[LandM]

MD,
Yes I have read the threads and yes it is people's opinion. Opinion, Opinion, Opinion.......I deal in facts not Opinions. I was on the ground crew of Challenger - the opinion was we could fly....... tell me and explain to me how that worked out. I was in the Blue Cube in Sunnyvale, CA. I met the teachernaut - that is reality buddy - not a flippin opinion. I have them and they are to use the phrase, " they are like a$$holes, everyone has them and they all stink". Let's talk facts - you are holding an empty hand and I worry about the next Commander in Chief - it is easy to Monday morning QB.

[foreverlax]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

What if....if you break the law, you should be punished. I have been consistent on this since the Clintons. Nothing has changed from my end.

Trump should get some, very specific, vindication, but it doesn't excuse the rest of his actions.

Respectfully forever...what I and others had said "over and over and over again" is if Trump is indicted and found guilty of anything, then throw him in the slammer, otherwise, he's POTUS, live with it.

Agreed.

Do you think a sitting president can be indicted?

Sure, I think if the POTUS was proven to have murdered the First Lady, they'd find a way.

Great talk.

[foreverlax]

MD,
Yes I have read the threads and yes it is people's opinion. Opinion, Opinion, Opinion.......I deal in facts not Opinions. I was on the ground crew of Challenger - the opinion was we could fly....... tell me and explain to me how that worked out. I was in the Blue Cube in Sunnyvale, CA. I met the teachernaut - that is reality buddy - not a flippin opinion. I have them and they are to use the phrase, " they are like a$$holes, everyone has them and they all stink". Let's talk facts - you are holding an empty hand and I worry about the next Commander in Chief - it is easy to Monday morning QB.

Great to hear!! We love facts!!

[MDlaxfan76]

MD,
For the last flippin time - and I kept my lower case letters on - I did not vote for the President in the last election and will probably not vote for the same category this time - get over it man - give me someone I can get behind and I will vote - what you are holding in a poker game is an empty hand. He$$ out here I have been called a traitor for not voting - me and Tulsi now I would vote for her. Get over it and no I do not need to get my Websters out and use fancy, pantsy words to make my point. Unfortunately you like to box people in corners and your swinging............wait for it, missing......and wait for it, there is an election .

Bottom line is you and others are keep screaming fire that the world is not gonna end in 12 years . I have heard that most of my life.

ok, LandM, let me say that I take your word for it that you didn't bother to vote last time. That doesn't make you a "traitor" in my book, just not doing your civic duty. EDIT; that's a bit harsh, sounds like you take your civic duties seriously in many other ways.

That said, I do understand the disenchantment in 2016. (was that a a fancy pantsy word?). I didn't vote for either D or R. (have never voted for a D for POTUS and never missed a cycle).

I'm not likely to have that problem in 2020. Even those I least like are worth voting for if it's the way to remove Trump.

I happen to think that the best outcome would be landslide victory at the polls in the Presidential, very narrow hold by R's in Senate, continued control by Dems of House.

I don't expect the Senate to convict and remove (given the political realities), nor Trump to resign, but I do think he should be impeached...that is, unless there is substantial evidence that exonerates Trump of abuse of power thoroughly somehow...which is hard to imagine given his own public statements inviting foreign interference.

You are free to disagree.
But, yeah, I'll challenge your opinions when they echo Trumpist talking points that are actually nonsense.

[seacoaster]

MD,
Yes I have read the threads and yes it is people's opinion. Opinion, Opinion, Opinion.......I deal in facts not Opinions. I was on the ground crew of Challenger - the opinion was we could fly....... tell me and explain to me how that worked out. I was in the Blue Cube in Sunnyvale, CA. I met the teachernaut - that is reality buddy - not a flippin opinion. I have them and they are to use the phrase, " they are like a$$holes, everyone has them and they all stink". Let's talk facts - you are holding an empty hand and I worry about the next Commander in Chief - it is easy to Monday morning QB.

Great to hear!! We love facts!!

As long as we don’t willfully avoid them.

[MDlaxfan76]

afan,
In writing - tell me what he did wrong - you can tell me he is an arse, you can tell me he is uncoventional, you can tell me he stole money, you can tell me he is a thief and a turd$head of a business man who screws everyone (ever done business with car people?)- I used to to deal with business people (man and women) who did the the same - he was duly elected - there has been nothing but one investigation after another, he has not been found of a crime after 3 year years and you ALL keep whining - you are the boys/women who keep calling that the sky is falling. I am at the point that I may vote for the damn dude.........that is allot of buttons to get me there. Get over your yourself and move on. If a D wins, what happens to that person? You and others are making a grave mistake......MOVE ON please for the benefit of most people. Big country go and visit it. AND PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A TRUMPIST OR APOLOGISTS AS YOUR ARE FAR FROM FROM THE TRUTH.

On a lighter note, I hope Khaki pants kicks the the dump out of ND - I have 4 scars on two knees from the good Catholic boys - I will make amends and light a candle tomorrow

LandM,
Unfortunately, you really can't avoid the labels, even if you deny them shouting in all caps.

Ah your constant labeling mdlax

It's OK, I understand you make sense of your world by compartmentalizing, labeling... gives you a sense of security in your elitist bubble I guess. It's tough being an old white guy these days isn't it

Actually, I didn't "label" LandM, just made clear that when he repeats baloney out of the Trumpist playbook, that invites folks to see him that way, no matter what caps he uses to deny those labels.

I guess that makes me an "elitist" how? Now that's funny. Please read some of your posts sometime...the imperious tone...
Are you labeling, compartmentalizing me? Yep, it's how I get by in my "angry fog." Have to admit, that was your best line ever.
No worries, I can take it with a smile.

and, yeah, I'm almost 62 (old by many folks' standards) and I'm white and a guy.
I'm cool with that too.
You won't get any whining from me about how "tough" it is to be an "old white guy these days". JFTR, I'm older than you

"imperious tone".
Ok, if that's how you read me, that's how you read me.
But "arrogant and domineering" is not my intent.
I do try to be clear in my language, and as forceful with my views as I can be while not being too insulting.
I do sometimes slip into being a bit sarcastic at times, sometimes get a bit testy.

Perhaps that's "imperious" to you.

Well, fellow "old white guy", do we really need to whine about being such?
I'd rather be younger...but hey, getting older beats the alternative.

If I wasn't trying to raise a teen in today's environment...no whining, my "cross to bear."

My guy is 26 now, I'm really not worried for him as a 'white guy'.
His world is considerably more diverse than mine was, which was dramatically more diverse than was my dads'.
And he has a good head on his shoulders, much better EQ than me.

But I do understand how some of the most incendiary rhetoric about 'white males' can be worrisome. I think we need to teach our sons to be careful in ways that we never had to really consider, ala what black folks feel the need to teach their sons when coming into contact with the police...be careful, be respectful, keep your hands in view...

Good luck and enjoy every moment you can!

[tech37]

MD,
Yes I have read the threads and yes it is people's opinion. Opinion, Opinion, Opinion.......I deal in facts not Opinions. I was on the ground crew of Challenger - the opinion was we could fly....... tell me and explain to me how that worked out. I was in the Blue Cube in Sunnyvale, CA. I met the teachernaut - that is reality buddy - not a flippin opinion. I have them and they are to use the phrase, " they are like a$$holes, everyone has them and they all stink". Let's talk facts - you are holding an empty hand and I worry about the next Commander in Chief - it is easy to Monday morning QB.

Great to hear!! We love facts!!

As long as we don’t willfully avoid them.

Certainly that goes for the facts that both Horowitz and Durham present. Or have you already discredited those gentlemen?

[MDlaxfan76]

MD,
Yes I have read the threads and yes it is people's opinion. Opinion, Opinion, Opinion.......I deal in facts not Opinions. I was on the ground crew of Challenger - the opinion was we could fly....... tell me and explain to me how that worked out. I was in the Blue Cube in Sunnyvale, CA. I met the teachernaut - that is reality buddy - not a flippin opinion. I have them and they are to use the phrase, " they are like a$$holes, everyone has them and they all stink". Let's talk facts - you are holding an empty hand and I worry about the next Commander in Chief - it is easy to Monday morning QB.

Great to hear!! We love facts!!

As long as we don’t willfully avoid them.

Certainly that goes for the facts that both Horowitz and Durham present. Or have you already discredited those gentlemen?

Have they presented facts that are being ignored?

[seacoaster]

MD,
Yes I have read the threads and yes it is people's opinion. Opinion, Opinion, Opinion.......I deal in facts not Opinions. I was on the ground crew of Challenger - the opinion was we could fly....... tell me and explain to me how that worked out. I was in the Blue Cube in Sunnyvale, CA. I met the teachernaut - that is reality buddy - not a flippin opinion. I have them and they are to use the phrase, " they are like a$$holes, everyone has them and they all stink". Let's talk facts - you are holding an empty hand and I worry about the next Commander in Chief - it is easy to Monday morning QB.

Great to hear!! We love facts!!

As long as we don’t willfully avoid them.

Certainly that goes for the facts that both Horowitz and Durham present. Or have you already discredited those gentlemen?

Not at all, sport. You need to read more carefully. Sorry if I sound “imperious.”

[tech37]

MD,
Yes I have read the threads and yes it is people's opinion. Opinion, Opinion, Opinion.......I deal in facts not Opinions. I was on the ground crew of Challenger - the opinion was we could fly....... tell me and explain to me how that worked out. I was in the Blue Cube in Sunnyvale, CA. I met the teachernaut - that is reality buddy - not a flippin opinion. I have them and they are to use the phrase, " they are like a$$holes, everyone has them and they all stink". Let's talk facts - you are holding an empty hand and I worry about the next Commander in Chief - it is easy to Monday morning QB.

Great to hear!! We love facts!!

As long as we don’t willfully avoid them.

Certainly that goes for the facts that both Horowitz and Durham present. Or have you already discredited those gentlemen?

Have they presented facts that are being ignored?

"present"...future tense

[tech37]

Not at all

Good, I was beginning to think you were partisan