Johns Hopkins 2020

[DocBarrister]

Btw, you left out that the player in question can't hit water falling out of a boat with that shot of his.

A fan - you know I buy into the talent issue more than some Hopkins posters but I have to agree with HF16 on this one - Zinn's shooting percentage was also skewed by the low number in the denominator - if he scores 2 more goals his shooting percentage is likely near or at 30% and then he's in the discussion as a sharpshooter from the mid-field? No - not at all - same works the other way - sample size is too small to pull out the water/boat saying.

I also have to agree with HF16 (and I don't always) on the playing time issue. My perception - he was given residence in the back yard next to the Petro family dog after botching the easy pass and getting his lunch money stolen leading to the first Syracuse goal and it took a long time to get back in the house. The issue? There was no plan B. Doesn't matter what Zinn did or did not do - the alternatives did not produce at all were never going to produce and did not have anywhere near his athletic ability. And then you risked potentially losing him in the portal. The mid-field - even if Zinn has a great year - is an identifiable weakness on the team - did I mention Hopkins 1st mid-field combined for 69 POINTS? With Keogh either out for the year or recovering from an apparent bad knee sprain - the mid-field can sustain no further losses - where would this season be if Zinn wasn't around?

Edit - went back and actually looked - Zinn took 28 shots so 2 more goals would have been an easy 25% calculation. Point still holds

I think Hopkins has the personnel to have three 30-point scorers on the first midfield line. See no reason why DeSimone, Concannon, and Zinn can’t score 30 points each.

DocBarrister

[flalax22]

Btw, you left out that the player in question can't hit water falling out of a boat with that shot of his.

A fan - you know I buy into the talent issue more than some Hopkins posters but I have to agree with HF16 on this one - Zinn's shooting percentage was also skewed by the low number in the denominator - if he scores 2 more goals his shooting percentage is likely near or at 30% and then he's in the discussion as a sharpshooter from the mid-field? No - not at all - same works the other way - sample size is too small to pull out the water/boat saying.

I also have to agree with HF16 (and I don't always) on the playing time issue. My perception - he was given residence in the back yard next to the Petro family dog after botching the easy pass and getting his lunch money stolen leading to the first Syracuse goal and it took a long time to get back in the house. The issue? There was no plan B. Doesn't matter what Zinn did or did not do - the alternatives did not produce at all were never going to produce and did not have anywhere near his athletic ability. And then you risked potentially losing him in the portal. The mid-field - even if Zinn has a great year - is an identifiable weakness on the team - did I mention Hopkins 1st mid-field combined for 69 POINTS? With Keogh either out for the year or recovering from an apparent bad knee sprain - the mid-field can sustain no further losses - where would this season be if Zinn wasn't around?

Edit - went back and actually looked - Zinn took 28 shots so 2 more goals would have been an easy 25% calculation. Point still holds

I think Hopkins has the personnel to have three 30-point scorers on the first midfield line. See no reason why DeSimone, Concannon, and Zinn can’t score 30 points each.

DocBarrister

5th year guy has averaged 18 points
3rd year guy has averaged 17.5 points
2nd year guy had 9 points last year


Here’s my prediction - one player of those three reaches 30

[a fan]

Hopkins fans obsess about coaching in a way that Syracuse fans don't. Why? Because at Syracuse, you never have over-coaching...you just roll out the ball and say "Let's go!"

That was somewhat true during the streak years, but that style of ball left the barn over a decade ago.

No one plays like that. Not even Tiffany.

But at Hopkins, we worry that players are "tight"; "afraid to make mistakes", etc. At LP, there was a long post that seemed to argue this was a particular problem with goalies.

Aren't most here arguing the opposite? That they play kids who aren't producing too long, giving each player plenty of time to make up for mistakes on the field?

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

No, the syndrome is called rabbit ears and plenty of players who have had lots of playing time suffer from it. It’s been going on constantly over the past two decades.

It’s one of the causes. The symptoms are underachieving.

[Sagittarius A*]

No, the syndrome is called rabbit ears and plenty of players who have had lots of playing time suffer from it. It’s been going on constantly over the past two decades.

It’s one of the causes. The symptoms are underachieving.

John Tillman makes it a point not to yell at guys for making mistakes, otherwise they won’t take risks on the field. He’s won a title with a bunch of second place finishes in the last decade and he seems to make the final four almost every year. There’s a shocker. Go figure.

[flalax22]

No, the syndrome is called rabbit ears and plenty of players who have had lots of playing time suffer from it. It’s been going on constantly over the past two decades.

It’s one of the causes. The symptoms are underachieving.

John Tillman makes it a point not to yell at guys for making mistakes, otherwise they won’t take risks on the field. He’s won a title with a bunch of second place finishes in the last decade and he seems to make the final four almost every year. There’s a shocker. Go figure.

He also won that title on the back of Rambo and Heacock who with respect to the young men allegedly didn’t have a gpa or SAT score that could have got them into Essex Community College. So I’m not sure I credit Tillman’s sunny disposition.

[jhu06]

Hopkins fans obsess about coaching in a way that Syracuse fans don't. Why? Because at Syracuse, you never have over-coaching...you just roll out the ball and say "Let's go!"

But at Hopkins, we worry that players are "tight"; "afraid to make mistakes", etc. At LP, there was a long post that seemed to argue this was a particular problem with goalies.

#firedesko has trended on twitter for about 6 years, and that's not counting the other interwebs and chat forums where the Derrick Coleman and Sherman Douglas and Marvin Graves faithful reside. Petro is tough so is BB, so was Coughlin, Parcells, go down the list.

@AlphaSquad_97 May 11, 2018
YEAR 4 OF THE #FIREDESKO TRAIN CHOO CHOO
Brent Axe@BrentAxeMedia · May 14, 2018
Episode 32 of the Syracuse Sports Podcast is up! Why it's not time to #FireDesko. http://syracuse.com/orangesports/index. ... dcast.html[/i]
@BrentAxeMedia
Wildhack needs to have a direct and honest conversation with Desko. Is this program still special? Are you swimming with the recruiting tide with a wider talent pool available to you or against it? Season began (Colgate) and ended (Loyola)with a thud with some promise in between
If you feel a coaching change needs to be made, I’m not going to fight you too hard there. The question becomes is there someone out there who could do a better job? College Lacrosse has a lot of talented coaches ready for the next step.This program needs a jolt. A Final Four run. A fitting player to earn the 22 and remind us of the greats who wore it. Something that stands out. They are teetering on becoming just another program, not a special one.

[Sagittarius A*]

No, the syndrome is called rabbit ears and plenty of players who have had lots of playing time suffer from it. It’s been going on constantly over the past two decades.

It’s one of the causes. The symptoms are underachieving.

John Tillman makes it a point not to yell at guys for making mistakes, otherwise they won’t take risks on the field. He’s won a title with a bunch of second place finishes in the last decade and he seems to make the final four almost every year. There’s a shocker. Go figure.

He also won that title on the back of Rambo and Heacock who with respect to the young men allegedly didn’t have a gpa or SAT score that could have got them into Essex Community College. So I’m not sure I credit Tillman’s sunny disposition.

Tillman made Finals appearances before those guys ever got there. The man is just a flat out good coach. Debbie Yow listened to experts and found the right man for their program. He was highly regarded before he came to Maryland and when he got a chance with top recruits he proved what he could do. Tillman made four Final Fours and won a National Championship with his Number #1 ranked recruiting class while Petro made exactly ONE Final Four with his. Notice a difference here?

[tech37]

No, the syndrome is called rabbit ears and plenty of players who have had lots of playing time suffer from it. It’s been going on constantly over the past two decades.

It’s one of the causes. The symptoms are underachieving.

John Tillman makes it a point not to yell at guys for making mistakes, otherwise they won’t take risks on the field. He’s won a title with a bunch of second place finishes in the last decade and he seems to make the final four almost every year. There’s a shocker. Go figure.

He also won that title on the back of Rambo and Heacock who with respect to the young men allegedly didn’t have a gpa or SAT score that could have got them into Essex Community College. So I’m not sure I credit Tillman’s sunny disposition.

ouch!

[Sagittarius A*]

No, the syndrome is called rabbit ears and plenty of players who have had lots of playing time suffer from it. It’s been going on constantly over the past two decades.

It’s one of the causes. The symptoms are underachieving.

John Tillman makes it a point not to yell at guys for making mistakes, otherwise they won’t take risks on the field. He’s won a title with a bunch of second place finishes in the last decade and he seems to make the final four almost every year. There’s a shocker. Go figure.

He also won that title on the back of Rambo and Heacock who with respect to the young men allegedly didn’t have a gpa or SAT score that could have got them into Essex Community College. So I’m not sure I credit Tillman’s sunny disposition.

ouch!

Some schools are dropping SAT scores entirely these days. WD has a 2.0 GPA in HS. Ouch back!

[44WeWantMore]

Hopkins fans obsess about coaching in a way that Syracuse fans don't. Why? Because at Syracuse, you never have over-coaching...you just roll out the ball and say "Let's go!"

That was somewhat true during the streak years, but that style of ball left the barn over a decade ago.

No one plays like that. Not even Tiffany.

I am sure you would agree that if Desko had the types of players Brown had a couple of years ago, or had picked up just a couple of the typical Syracuse players that somehow ended up at Albany instead, he would run-and-gun in a heartbeat. Petro; not so much.

But at Hopkins, we worry that players are "tight"; "afraid to make mistakes", etc. At LP, there was a long post that seemed to argue this was a particular problem with goalies.

Aren't most here arguing the opposite? That they play kids who aren't producing too long, giving each player plenty of time to make up for mistakes on the field?

Loyalty not so much in spite of glaring mistakes, but loyalty in spite of on-field production.

[a fan]

The question becomes is there someone out there who could do a better job (than Desko)?

My answer is: odds are not high, and there are no guarantees.

How many rings does Desko have again? How many Final Fours? Good luck bettering those numbers.

For me, the last couple of seasons for Syracuse have been a pleasure to watch. I have no complaints.

Syracuse hasn't been "the special program", or whatever you want to call it, since the streak ended.

Hopkins? Hasn't been "the special program" since Brian Wood left campus. 2 Championships since 88? And Petro's the guy who got you both.

And no, I'm not saying you should extend his contract. Do as you will. But you need to find a guy who can recruit better..and I'm not 100% convinced that Petro is the problem on that count. Same goes for Desko...which is why I think he's doing a fine job, given the context.

All just opinions, obviously.

[a fan]

John Tillman makes it a point not to yell at guys for making mistakes, otherwise they won’t take risks on the field. He’s won a title with a bunch of second place finishes in the last decade and he seems to make the final four almost every year. There’s a shocker. Go figure.

Bill Tierney. Kevin Corrigan.

[DMac]

Hopkins fans obsess about coaching in a way that Syracuse fans don't. Why? Because at Syracuse, you never have over-coaching...you just roll out the ball and say "Let's go!"

That was somewhat true during the streak years, but that style of ball left the barn over a decade ago.

No one plays like that. Not even Tiffany.

I am sure you would agree that if Desko had the types of players Brown had a couple of years ago, or had picked up just a couple of the typical Syracuse players that somehow ended up at Albany instead, he would run-and-gun in a heartbeat. Petro; not so much.

Would not disagree with that, have said for many years that I feel as if Hop's tradition works for and against them. I feel as if they've always played a much more conservative and controlled game than Cuse, and feel as if your, "Petro; not so much" is likely accurate. a fan is also correct in "that style of play left the barn over a decade ago", Cuse plays the over coached game that too many other teams play in today's lacrosse....Desko would likely be more inclined to let his boys run had the Albany trio (or those types of players) ended up at Cuse though. Petro: not so much, I think.
Tip for ya fellas, don't put much stock in what Brent Axe has to say. If he can find something negative to report about Cuse lax you'll hear from him, otherwise, not so much. His reports come from high light videos and twitter...oh yeah, from his buddy Anish too. Another one who will tell you all about how bad Cuse is.
Ask Axe why Boeheim wouldn't go to a box and one when a player is dropping in 30 from the arc and his answer will be, "That's a ridiculous question, JB has forgotten more about hoops than you'll ever know and he sticks with his patented (how is it HIS patented 2-3) 2-3". Guess he has forgotten a lot about hoops (have had this conversation with Axe as well as a few lacrosse discussion...trust me on this one).

[DocBarrister]

Btw, you left out that the player in question can't hit water falling out of a boat with that shot of his.

A fan - you know I buy into the talent issue more than some Hopkins posters but I have to agree with HF16 on this one - Zinn's shooting percentage was also skewed by the low number in the denominator - if he scores 2 more goals his shooting percentage is likely near or at 30% and then he's in the discussion as a sharpshooter from the mid-field? No - not at all - same works the other way - sample size is too small to pull out the water/boat saying.

I also have to agree with HF16 (and I don't always) on the playing time issue. My perception - he was given residence in the back yard next to the Petro family dog after botching the easy pass and getting his lunch money stolen leading to the first Syracuse goal and it took a long time to get back in the house. The issue? There was no plan B. Doesn't matter what Zinn did or did not do - the alternatives did not produce at all were never going to produce and did not have anywhere near his athletic ability. And then you risked potentially losing him in the portal. The mid-field - even if Zinn has a great year - is an identifiable weakness on the team - did I mention Hopkins 1st mid-field combined for 69 POINTS? With Keogh either out for the year or recovering from an apparent bad knee sprain - the mid-field can sustain no further losses - where would this season be if Zinn wasn't around?

Edit - went back and actually looked - Zinn took 28 shots so 2 more goals would have been an easy 25% calculation. Point still holds

I think Hopkins has the personnel to have three 30-point scorers on the first midfield line. See no reason why DeSimone, Concannon, and Zinn can’t score 30 points each.

DocBarrister

5th year guy has averaged 18 points
3rd year guy has averaged 17.5 points
2nd year guy had 9 points last year


Here’s my prediction - one player of those three reaches 30

Yep. So, the 5th and 3rd year guy need to step up and score one additional point a game. I understand that is not as easy as it sounds, but it’s something that could be achieved with some hard work. Put in some Joey-Epstein-style-effort and I think they have a shot at scoring one more point a game. Could be something as simple as putting a few more shots on goal each game.

As for the 2nd year guy, put him on the first middie line and that should triple his touches.

It’s very much in reach. Are these guys willing to put in the work to get there? I have to believe Joey Epstein was elected a sophomore captain as much for his work ethic as his 73 points.

30-30-30 in 2020

DocBarrister

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Currently:

0 offense
0 defense

Time will prove people wrong, again and again.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Btw, you left out that the player in question can't hit water falling out of a boat with that shot of his.

A fan - you know I buy into the talent issue more than some Hopkins posters but I have to agree with HF16 on this one - Zinn's shooting percentage was also skewed by the low number in the denominator - if he scores 2 more goals his shooting percentage is likely near or at 30% and then he's in the discussion as a sharpshooter from the mid-field? No - not at all - same works the other way - sample size is too small to pull out the water/boat saying.

I also have to agree with HF16 (and I don't always) on the playing time issue. My perception - he was given residence in the back yard next to the Petro family dog after botching the easy pass and getting his lunch money stolen leading to the first Syracuse goal and it took a long time to get back in the house. The issue? There was no plan B. Doesn't matter what Zinn did or did not do - the alternatives did not produce at all were never going to produce and did not have anywhere near his athletic ability. And then you risked potentially losing him in the portal. The mid-field - even if Zinn has a great year - is an identifiable weakness on the team - did I mention Hopkins 1st mid-field combined for 69 POINTS? With Keogh either out for the year or recovering from an apparent bad knee sprain - the mid-field can sustain no further losses - where would this season be if Zinn wasn't around?

Edit - went back and actually looked - Zinn took 28 shots so 2 more goals would have been an easy 25% calculation. Point still holds

I think Hopkins has the personnel to have three 30-point scorers on the first midfield line. See no reason why DeSimone, Concannon, and Zinn can’t score 30 points each.

DocBarrister

5th year guy has averaged 18 points
3rd year guy has averaged 17.5 points
2nd year guy had 9 points last year


Here’s my prediction - one player of those three reaches 30

Yep. So, the 5th and 3rd year guy need to step up and score one additional point a game. I understand that is not as easy as it sounds, but it’s something that could be achieved with some hard work. Put in some Joey-Epstein-style-effort and I think they have a shot at scoring one more point a game. Could be something as simple as putting a few more shots on goal each game.

As for the 2nd year guy, put him on the first middie line and that should triple his touches.

It’s very much in reach. Are these guys willing to put in the work to get there? I have to believe Joey Epstein was elected a sophomore captain as much for his work ethic as his 73 points.

30-30-30 in 2020

DocBarrister

If you get two middies with 30+ points, that’s very good. 3 is almost unheard of.

[HopFan16]

You're complaining that you think Hopkins has better talent than all the teams that made it further in the NCAA tournament over last decade.

Come on, that is 100% not what I'm saying and you know that. If you want to have a good faith discussion about this then I'm open to it but if you're going to set up this straw man then I'm not super interested.

Regarding Zinn ... it’s my understanding from others on this forum that he was pretty banged up last season with nagging injuries. Hopefully, he’s made a good recovery.

This has been floated before and it doesn't make any sense. They had him playing on the wings. If he's healthy enough to do that a dozen times a game then he's healthy enough to take a run on offense a few times a game.

I think Zinn, DeSimone, and Concannon are all individually more than capable of scoring 30 points, but the chances of them ALL doing it are slim to none. Concannon wasn't very far off last year and he's improved his point total every season. He's looked better the further removed from his knee injury freshman year. Quite frankly I'd expect 30+ from him this year. I think my thoughts on Zinn are rather clear at this point so I won't keep harping on that. DeSimone, we know what happened last year, but he had 18 as a freshman and I think we all know he's capable of more than what he produced last year so is 30+ in his range of outcomes? Absolutely. But all three doing it simultaneously seems virtually impossible.

I do agree with Doc on one thing—as long as #32 is healthy I think there are enough solid pieces around him for the offense to be productive again. This team's season starts and ends with defense/goaltending.

[a fan]

You're complaining that you think Hopkins has better talent than all the teams that made it further in the NCAA tournament over last decade.

Come on, that is 100% not what I'm saying and you know that. If you want to have a good faith discussion about this then I'm open to it but if you're going to set up this straw man then I'm not super interested.

After rereading my post, my apologies, that was a mistake, and poor phrasing on my part. You're absolutely right.

What I was trying to say was: you think that Hopkins had better talent than SOME of the teams that advanced further in the playoffs in a given year. In other words, you think that they had enough talent to make it another round.

Hopefully that's more understandable, and fits your view. Mea culpa.

[Sagittarius A*]

Success is a combination of talent and coaching.
Someone once asked Julius Caesar which he would rather have, a good army with a bad general, or a good general with a bad army. He replied, "Neither one's much good now is it?"
The two most successful coaches in the last decade have been John Tillman and John Danowski. Neither is a yeller or screamer. I've seen Danowski walking around on the sidelines going up to kids and saying "Good Job!" Both coaches recruit well and get the most out of their teams.
Maybe Petro's approach worked well for him ten years ago, but times have changed. You can have good players but if you don't play them, or you de-motivate them, you're not going to win. I don't have any inside information on the program, but the results on the field speak for themselves.
Given the Jay's talent level they should be making Final Fours instead of getting blown off the field in the first two rounds of the playoffs.