JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

[foreverlax]

Millions of Kurds have been displaced, what's another 150,000 more, as a direct result of Trump.

As a direct result of Trump ? ...Assad, Erdogan & Putin had a bit to do with it.

That's what I said about Obama when he took our troops out "early".

You disagreed, to put it mildly. What changed your stance on this sort of thing?

I'm not getting sucked into another false choice vortex.
In Syria, we took out our Border Patrol peacekeepers.
We're leaving a Residual Force to fight IS (where they actually are)
& to block the highway to Iran.

We'll still be overhead with air support.
BHO wouldn't even send drones to resist the IS JV invasion of Iraq,
or resupply Iraq's Hellfire missiles.

Trump said they are coming home, all the IS fighters have been captured and Turkey is now guarding them.

It all worked out as he planned.

So a "false choice vortex" is your explanation for your hypocrisy?

.. ...try to have an adult conversation. Challenge accepted. No winks or eye rolls
I give you credit for being smart enough to not to take what Trump says at face value.Thank you...Wouldn't you agree that isn't the case with all of Trump's supporters?
He's speaking in terms that are understood by the unwashed masses Consider voters who only watch Fox and only read his tweets and always believe what he says are facts. Like the example I posted. There is a big different between plain talk and a lie.

the unwashed masses you look down your nose upon. That's a jerk comment for someone who wants to have an adult conversation. If you are trying to say that I have little patience for liars and hypocrites, fair enough...folks don't want to learn how to turn information in to facts, resulting in knowledge, works for me - but we all lose

You're also smart enough to understand the difference in our posture in Iraq @ 2010 vs Syria @ 2019. Thanks again. Here is what I believe:
1. No one wanted to put any US boots in Syria. Use special operators etc. and locals to get our ends. Plus we love Drones.
2. Everyone believed what Assad, backed by Putin, was doing to his own people were war crimes.
3. Obama's choice of words, "JV"...poor choice of words - compared to what Trumps says..BFD.
4. Trump deserves the credit for defeating the caliphate on his watch. Leaving the one's who did he dying - UN-American.
5. There is only one excuse for leaving the way he did and that is insides Trump's head. No one, except Rand Paul, thinks how it was done, where we are now and how it plays out is "good".
6. They blame BHO for not solving the problem and yet they weren't willing to give him the support it required. They do need a new AUMF if they want to get serious...otherwise it's the same b.s. as usual. Trump's doctrine is no different...sending troops in to protect oil, we're #1 in energy, we don't need the ME.

[Trinity]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html

So busted.

[Trinity]

https://taskandpurpose.com/snodgrass-mattis-book

11 of the best bits of the book General Mattis hopes you don’t read. Originally stalled by DoD. So, like, banned in Boston.

[old salt]

Millions of Kurds have been displaced, what's another 150,000 more, as a direct result of Trump.

As a direct result of Trump ? ...Assad, Erdogan & Putin had a bit to do with it.

That's what I said about Obama when he took our troops out "early".

You disagreed, to put it mildly. What changed your stance on this sort of thing?

I'm not getting sucked into another false choice vortex.
In Syria, we took out our Border Patrol peacekeepers.
We're leaving a Residual Force to fight IS (where they actually are)
& to block the highway to Iran.

We'll still be overhead with air support.
BHO wouldn't even send drones to resist the IS JV invasion of Iraq,
or resupply Iraq's Hellfire missiles.

Trump said they are coming home, all the IS fighters have been captured and Turkey is now guarding them.

It all worked out as he planned.

So a "false choice vortex" is your explanation for your hypocrisy?

.. ...try to have an adult conversation. Challenge accepted. No winks or eye rolls
I give you credit for being smart enough to not to take what Trump says at face value.Thank you...Wouldn't you agree that isn't the case with all of Trump's supporters?
He's speaking in terms that are understood by the unwashed masses Consider voters who only watch Fox and only read his tweets and always believe what he says are facts. Like the example I posted. There is a big different between plain talk and a lie.

the unwashed masses you look down your nose upon. That's a jerk comment for someone who wants to have an adult conversation. If you are trying to say that I have little patience for liars and hypocrites, fair enough...folks don't want to learn how to turn information in to facts, resulting in knowledge, works for me - but we all lose

You're also smart enough to understand the difference in our posture in Iraq @ 2010 vs Syria @ 2019. Thanks again. Here is what I believe:
1. No one wanted to put any US boots in Syria. Use special operators etc. and locals to get our ends. Plus we love Drones.
2. Everyone believed what Assad, backed by Putin, was doing to his own people were war crimes.
3. Obama's choice of words, "JV"...poor choice of words - compared to what Trumps says..BFD.
4. Trump deserves the credit for defeating the caliphate on his watch. Leaving the one's who did he dying - UN-American.
5. There is only one excuse for leaving the way he did and that is insides Trump's head. No one, except Rand Paul, thinks how it was done, where we are now and how it plays out is "good".
6. They blame BHO for not solving the problem and yet they weren't willing to give him the support it required. They do need a new AUMF if they want to get serious...otherwise it's the same b.s. as usual. Trump's doctrine is no different...sending troops in to protect oil, we're #1 in energy, we don't need the ME.

You're missing one major point. I'm not defending Trump on this. I'm defending Esper & Milley for making the decision to pull back our vulnerable troops from the border area & Jeffery for his efforts in making it work as long as he did. I'm not defending Trump's decision to pull out all our troops or the way he dissed the Kurds. I approve of going back in & don't care what face saving rhetoric Trump feels necessary to justify his walkback.

I'm attempting to discuss what's going on in Syria & why, without the nonstop diversionary Trump bashing.
Apparently your are not interested in fact based, informational, non-partisan or non-political discussion.
So feel free to continue trolling & haranguing me, but don't count on getting a reply.

[old salt]

The Guardian reporting that the tanks for the oil fields are to come from a unit already in the ME.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... oil-fields

I wasn't aware that we still had any operational tank units in the ME.
Maybe some staged in Kuwait.
The equipment for an entire Infantry Division is stored in Qatar.
Either way, it's a long (& vulnerable) haul to Syria, IF the Iraqis give the ok.

VDH on the ironies of our Turkish allies vs our Kurdish allies.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/ ... h-ironies/

[old salt]

This is crazy stuff. Tank battles with Russia & Syria for Syria's piddly oil fields ?
If this planning is really taking place in DoD, it's Trump trolling his critics in Congress & the MSM, calling their bluff.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 089195002/

WASHINGTON – The Pentagon is preparing to send tanks and armored vehicles to Syrian oil fields, according to a U.S. official – a stunning reversal of President Trump's decision to withdraw U.S. forces from the war-torn country after he declared victory over ISIS.

The deployment of heavy armor to Syria would represent a significant escalation in the fight, requiring a contingent of additional troops to operate and maintain the vehicles, as well as forces to protect their bases.

A Defense Department official said the Pentagon is sending additional forces to northeastern Syria to prevent the oil fields from falling back into the hands of ISIS. Both officials were not authorized to speak publicly.
By Thursday, the Pentagon was planning for a significant escalation.

"Very, very confusing U.S. policy," said Seth Jones, a national security expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Expert: Move aimed at Russia and Syria, not ISIS
Sending Abrams battle tanks and Bradley armored vehicles would mark a new stage in the five-year campaign against ISIS. Newsweek first reported the plans to send armor to the region.

The composition of the additional forces and the type of equipment to be sent to Syria is still being worked out, the U.S. official told USA TODAY. Placing heavily armored vehicles in Syria would require more logistical personnel to support them than the previous force of American commandos needed, the official said.

The deployment of armor is aimed at Russia and Syria, not ISIS, said Nicholas Heras, an expert on Syria with the Center for a New American Security. He said the U.S-led coalition against ISIS had succeeded in keeping oil from the militant group, using a combination of U.S.-led airstrikes and the Syrian Democratic Forces, made up largely of Kurds, on the ground.

"This move would either indicate that the U.S. military believes that it cannot depend on the SDF (Syrian Democratic Forces) to protect the oil fields, and instead cut a deal with Russia and Assad behind America's back, or that the U.S. expects Assad and Russia to try to take the oil by force," Heras said.

"Pure and simple," he said, "the Pentagon is making contingencies for a big fight with Russia for Syria's oil."

[foreverlax]

Apparently your are not interested in fact based, informational, non-partisan or non-political discussion.

Gottcha...maybe you would feel safer in the little echo chamber you established in the General topics section.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Apparently your are not interested in fact based, informational, non-partisan or non-political discussion.

Gottcha...maybe you would feel safer in the little echo chamber you established in the General topics section.

He would feel safer if he could modify content like in the old laxpower days. A “moderator”.

[foreverlax]

" I'm not defending Trump on this. I'm defending Esper & Milley for making the decision to pull back our vulnerable troops from the border area"

Esper made the decision - Who knew??

[MDlaxfan76]

" I'm not defending Trump on this. I'm defending Esper & Milley for making the decision to pull back our vulnerable troops from the border area"

Esper made the decision - Who knew??

Let's see the transcript.

[foreverlax]

" I'm not defending Trump on this. I'm defending Esper & Milley for making the decision to pull back our vulnerable troops from the border area"

Esper made the decision - Who knew??

Let's see the transcript.

Clearly Trump's red line is oil over allies.

This is crazy stuff. Tank battles with Russia & Syria for Syria's piddly oil fields

[old salt]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... s-to-syria

SecDef Esper confirms -- a mechanized task force will reinforce our existing base at Deir ez Zor.

Any Abrams tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles & other armored vehicles will come from an Armored Brigade Combat Team already on a rotational deployment to Kuwait.
We also had an Army Ranger Regiment with Stryker wheeled armored fighting vehicles based in Manbij.
https://www.stripes.com/news/middle-eas ... e-1.457959
There was video of Strykers in the withdrawal to Iraq.

Yesterday, Gen Keane (ret) said the plan was to enable the SDF to occupy approx 60% of the territory they previously controlled in NE Syria, before the Turkish incursion & the Russians & Syrian National Army moved in. That territory would be E of a line from Deir ez Zour, N to an unspecified point on the boundary of the Turkish border safety zone.

This will be interesting.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/25/politics ... index.html

Friends in high places.

[old salt]

" I'm not defending Trump on this. I'm defending Esper & Milley for making the decision to pull back our vulnerable troops from the border area"

Esper made the decision - Who knew??

Let's see the transcript.

Esper & Milley would not be on the transcript. They were monitoring the call, not speaking on it.
They've both stated publicly, more than once, that they recommended pulling back our exposed troops from the 3 border observation outposts.
If you want to accuse them of lying, then just do so.

[foreverlax]

" I'm not defending Trump on this. I'm defending Esper & Milley for making the decision to pull back our vulnerable troops from the border area"

Esper made the decision - Who knew??

Let's see the transcript.

Esper & Milley would not be on the transcript. They were monitoring the call, not speaking on it.
They've both stated publicly, more than once, that they recommended pulling back our exposed troops from the 3 border observation outposts.
If you want to accuse them of lying, then just do so.

Feel free to share any link that they recommended the course of action taken by Trump.

[Typical Lax Dad]

" I'm not defending Trump on this. I'm defending Esper & Milley for making the decision to pull back our vulnerable troops from the border area"

Esper made the decision - Who knew??

Let's see the transcript.

Esper & Milley would not be on the transcript. They were monitoring the call, not speaking on it.
They've both stated publicly, more than once, that they recommended pulling back our exposed troops from the 3 border observation outposts.
If you want to accuse them of lying, then just do so.

Sounds like they piggy backed on Trump’s recommendation unless you believe they suggested something counter to Trump and he took their advice?

[old salt]

" I'm not defending Trump on this. I'm defending Esper & Milley for making the decision to pull back our vulnerable troops from the border area"

Esper made the decision - Who knew??

Let's see the transcript.

Esper & Milley would not be on the transcript. They were monitoring the call, not speaking on it.
They've both stated publicly, more than once, that they recommended pulling back our exposed troops from the 3 border observation outposts.
If you want to accuse them of lying, then just do so.

Feel free to share any link that they recommended the course of action taken by Trump.

Feel free to use Google yourself.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syri ... SKBN1WN2K9
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poli ... ry-special

[old salt]

" I'm not defending Trump on this. I'm defending Esper & Milley for making the decision to pull back our vulnerable troops from the border area"

Esper made the decision - Who knew??

Let's see the transcript.

Esper & Milley would not be on the transcript. They were monitoring the call, not speaking on it.
They've both stated publicly, more than once, that they recommended pulling back our exposed troops from the 3 border observation outposts.
If you want to accuse them of lying, then just do so.

Sounds like they piggy backed on Trump’s recommendation unless you believe they suggested something counter to Trump and he took their advice?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poli ... ry-special

In a speech and discussion this morning at the German Marshall Fund, Esper took a far different tone than his boss about the Turkish invasion of northern Syria, and the expulsion of the Kurdish forces who had been fighting ISIS with backing from the U.S.

“Turkey put us all in a very terrible situation. I mean, I think, I think the incursion was unwarranted. I think President Erdogan was fixated on making this incursion for one reason or another,” Esper said. “The U S decision to withdraw less than 50 soldiers from the zone of attack was made after it was very clear to us that Erdogan had made the decision to come across the border.”

US COULD NOT HAVE STOPPED TURKEY: Esper insisted that he had no choice but to pull U.S. troops back, and rejected criticism that keeping American forces in place, or threatening Turkey, would have prevented the assault on the Kurds.

“I was not about to put less than 50 U.S. soldiers in-between a 15,000-plus man Turkish army preceded by Turkish militia and jeopardize the lives of our young service members,” he said during the q-and-a session.

“So everybody has said, well, you could have threatened them with aircraft or you could have just kept them there in place. If I'd done that, I may be in a situation today trying to explain to the American people why I sacrificed American soldiers for that,” Esper argued. “I'm not about to throw up aircraft, and suggest that I'm going to strike a NATO ally because that's just not feasible. We'd be having a different discussion today about the future of alliance if that had happened.”

I guess you only believe the West Point grads who agree with you.

[Typical Lax Dad]

" I'm not defending Trump on this. I'm defending Esper & Milley for making the decision to pull back our vulnerable troops from the border area"

Esper made the decision - Who knew??

Let's see the transcript.

Esper & Milley would not be on the transcript. They were monitoring the call, not speaking on it.
They've both stated publicly, more than once, that they recommended pulling back our exposed troops from the 3 border observation outposts.
If you want to accuse them of lying, then just do so.

Sounds like they piggy backed on Trump’s recommendation unless you believe they suggested something counter to Trump and he took their advice?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poli ... ry-special

In a speech and discussion this morning at the German Marshall Fund, Esper took a far different tone than his boss about the Turkish invasion of northern Syria, and the expulsion of the Kurdish forces who had been fighting ISIS with backing from the U.S.

“Turkey put us all in a very terrible situation. I mean, I think, I think the incursion was unwarranted. I think President Erdogan was fixated on making this incursion for one reason or another,” Esper said. “The U S decision to withdraw less than 50 soldiers from the zone of attack was made after it was very clear to us that Erdogan had made the decision to come across the border.”

US COULD NOT HAVE STOPPED TURKEY: Esper insisted that he had no choice but to pull U.S. troops back, and rejected criticism that keeping American forces in place, or threatening Turkey, would have prevented the assault on the Kurds.

“I was not about to put less than 50 U.S. soldiers in-between a 15,000-plus man Turkish army preceded by Turkish militia and jeopardize the lives of our young service members,” he said during the q-and-a session.

“So everybody has said, well, you could have threatened them with aircraft or you could have just kept them there in place. If I'd done that, I may be in a situation today trying to explain to the American people why I sacrificed American soldiers for that,” Esper argued. “I'm not about to throw up aircraft, and suggest that I'm going to strike a NATO ally because that's just not feasible. We'd be having a different discussion today about the future of alliance if that had happened.”

I guess you only believe the West Point grads who agree with you.

Thanks. You seem to believe military academy grads that support Trump. Otherwise, you make fun of them.

[old salt]

" I'm not defending Trump on this. I'm defending Esper & Milley for making the decision to pull back our vulnerable troops from the border area"

Esper made the decision - Who knew??

Let's see the transcript.

Esper & Milley would not be on the transcript. They were monitoring the call, not speaking on it.
They've both stated publicly, more than once, that they recommended pulling back our exposed troops from the 3 border observation outposts.
If you want to accuse them of lying, then just do so.

Sounds like they piggy backed on Trump’s recommendation unless you believe they suggested something counter to Trump and he took their advice?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poli ... ry-special

In a speech and discussion this morning at the German Marshall Fund, Esper took a far different tone than his boss about the Turkish invasion of northern Syria, and the expulsion of the Kurdish forces who had been fighting ISIS with backing from the U.S.

“Turkey put us all in a very terrible situation. I mean, I think, I think the incursion was unwarranted. I think President Erdogan was fixated on making this incursion for one reason or another,” Esper said. “The U S decision to withdraw less than 50 soldiers from the zone of attack was made after it was very clear to us that Erdogan had made the decision to come across the border.”

US COULD NOT HAVE STOPPED TURKEY: Esper insisted that he had no choice but to pull U.S. troops back, and rejected criticism that keeping American forces in place, or threatening Turkey, would have prevented the assault on the Kurds.

“I was not about to put less than 50 U.S. soldiers in-between a 15,000-plus man Turkish army preceded by Turkish militia and jeopardize the lives of our young service members,” he said during the q-and-a session.

“So everybody has said, well, you could have threatened them with aircraft or you could have just kept them there in place. If I'd done that, I may be in a situation today trying to explain to the American people why I sacrificed American soldiers for that,” Esper argued. “I'm not about to throw up aircraft, and suggest that I'm going to strike a NATO ally because that's just not feasible. We'd be having a different discussion today about the future of alliance if that had happened.”

I guess you only believe the West Point grads who agree with you.

Thanks. You seem to believe military academy grads that support Trump. Otherwise, you make fun of them.

I'm not the one saying you should believe Walker just because he's a WP grad ?
I believe him because it syncs with all the other reporting & the call transcript.

I believe Esper & Milley (Princeton grad) because (unlike the critics & second guessers) they'd be accountable for the outcome of their decision/recommendation, & because they've publicly stated their reasons.