Trump's Russian Collusion

[HooDat]

What I want to know is, what happens when the House Impeaches. The Senate does not convict, and Trump is re-elected.

If people thought heads exploded in 2016 - we won't have to worry about the coastal elite anymore because some deplorable from Sunshine Cleaning will be wiping their grey matter off of teleprompters in every coastal newsroom and the walls of professors lounges on both coasts.....

[MDlaxfan76]

You think this secret star chamber, with no due process or rights for the accused is a PR winner ?

TBD. Right now, if you believe the polls, it seems to be. Long way to go, of course. Seems clear he will be impeached by the House, but acquitted in the Senate. I think it is way too early to know how this will impact the 2020 election. Trump will certainly claim he is exonerated if he is acquitted in the Senate. His base will believe that, but will the independent swing voters? My sense is the impeachment will hurt him. The question is by how much?

Agreed. No way you will get something like 20 republican Senators to vote for removal. From my perspective this is about doing what is right. Seeing wrong and calling it out. The latest polling continues to see a rise in independents in favor of both impeachment and removal. This is the battle for the last remaining voters who's minds can be changed.

The "with no due process" BS is a dog that won't hunt. It is clear and should be clear to anyone not blind that once public hearings begin no one will care about this phase of the investigation. Either the democrats will have a case or they won't. If they have one, they win and will be rewarded. If they don't have one, they lose and will be punished. All else is just whining.

The only aspect of your post that I'd question is the meaning of "win". If you mean that majority of people will believe that impeachment was righteous rather than partisan, perhaps.

If you mean that Trump will be convicted in the senate, that may prove a bridge too far, regardless of the overwhelming evidence of the case.

Not unlike trials in our history in the south of very obvious killers of a black man, nevertheless acquitted by an all white male jury.

Already stated that I do not believe there is any chance of conviction, but that is not the real goal.

Agreed; getting to the majority believing "righteous not partisan" would be a victory.
Post Taylor's testimony, it seems really difficult for any rational, informed person not to see it as "righteous" but then again, we live in strange times.

When this goes to open sessions rather than closed, it will be quite interesting.
Will R's really try to dirty these serious folks up??? Will that not create a backlash???
What happens when Bolton, no shrinking violet, lets rip?

There are so few people who's mind can be changed, how do you tell a backlash? I really don't like Bolton, never have, but I would pay to see this!

I'm a little more optimistic about the # of minds that actually could be changed...and it's only a 10% swing that creates a landslide level reaction. We see some slippage already with some GOP's in Congress, typically those who have actually served overseas in some capacity. Not to exaggerate this, as it's far from universal, but those sorts tend to be a little more duty, honor, country than the average bear. And with some of these elected folks stepping forward, it makes it a heck of a lot easier for their constituents to imagine that they might be right. Remember that voters tend to like their own elected officials way more they do 'those other bums'. So, if some of these folks begin to speak up, it could well be a ripple effect.

I'm not predicting such a sweeping change as another 10% move, but I don't think we should underestimate the power of TV. If the hearings are held formally as opposed to the typical circus performance, with counsel doing the questioning, then the folks actually giving testimony will be heard. From the sound of it, these will not be Mueller like performances constrained by natural reserve, age, and the DOJ process...and if the R's grandstand and go after these folks, they'll look like jack--ses.

[tech37]

Politics is now tightly bundled up with identity -- race, class, religion, culture. It was not that way even just a short time ago. IMO, this is due to 8 years of Obama/Holder and allowing a platform for the likes of Al Sharpton and others. How often was that dope at the WH during BHO's time in office? There were some racial incidents that were blown waaaay out of proportion and that helped create a toxic political environment. It's why we now have the likes of the "the squad" and their toxic fallout. Rightly or wrongly, the Rs definitely dug in over BHO's time, based at first on their rejection of the enactment of ObamaCare. Any decorum was down hill from there (including a sh*tload of other issues), all leading to the current hatefest.

Pretty depressing. And I don't think Trump's inevitable passing will change it. I optimistically disagree.

The partisan environment is entirely Obama's fault, eh? Followed by AOC, eh?

Are you trying to break into the Guinness Book of World Records for the "most ironic comment in the history of the internet"??

Funny you choose AOC, the most benign of the bunch, to make some point. Very typical a fan.

My attempt at a truncated chronology of causation is lost on you...

Yes, most of the current animus regarding race, class, religion, and culture that ggait mentioned, came about during Obama's time in office which then led to Trump being elected ...IMO of course

correction...4 years of Holder, not 8

[MDlaxfan76]

What I want to know is, what happens when the House Impeaches. The Senate does not convict, and Trump is re-elected.

If people thought heads exploded in 2016 - we won't have to worry about the coastal elite anymore because some deplorable from Sunshine Cleaning will be wiping their grey matter off of teleprompters in every coastal newsroom and the walls of professors lounges on both coasts.....

It's indeed worrisome if Presidents, especially this one, think they've been green lit to do absolutely anything they want with the power of the office, including rigging their own elections with foreign assistance. And if they actually think that no President can even be investigated, no matter what, Katy bar the door... for authoritarianism is on the way.

And let's say Trump then keels over in a heart attack and it's a new day...think it won't be open season for the next authoritarian who seizes power, regardless of means, immediately gaining immunity from challenge?

Imagine, again, that it doesn't require any where near a majority of voters to win the White House, just a few rigged states...

Trump is definitely going to be impeached by the House.
Open question about conviction, but it's becoming increasingly likely that the trial in the Senate will have some semblance of being held seriously.
Meanwhile the court cases are ticking forward inexorably, with so far, a near clean sweep of every decision going against Trump and his entities.

Odds remain high that the Senate votes at least largely on partisan line with only a handful of defectors, not enough to convict...but also not 100% of the GOP falling in line.

Can the Dems foul it up in the general? You betcha. But I don't think so.

[MDlaxfan76]

Politics is now tightly bundled up with identity -- race, class, religion, culture. It was not that way even just a short time ago. IMO, this is due to 8 years of Obama/Holder and allowing a platform to the likes of Al Sharpton and others. How often was that dope at the WH during BHO's time in office? There were some racial incidents that were blown waaaay out of proportion and that helped create a toxic political environment. It's why we now have the likes of the "the squad" and their toxic fallout. Rightly or wrongly, the Rs definitely dug in over BHO's time, based at first on their rejection of the enactment of ObamaCare. Any decorum was down hill from there (including a sh*tload of other issues), all leading to the current hatefest.

Pretty depressing. And I don't think Trump's inevitable passing will change it. I optimistically disagree.

The partisan environment is entirely Obama's fault, eh? Followed by AOC, eh?

Are you trying to break into the Guinness Book of World Records for the "most ironic comment in the history of the internet"??

Funny you choose AOC, the most benign of the bunch, to make some point. Very typical a fan.

My attempt at a truncated chronology of causation is lost on you...

Yes, most of the current animus regarding race, class, religion, and culture that ggait mentioned, came about during Obama's time in office which then led to Trump being elected ...IMO of course

correction...4 years of Holder, not 8

yup, that Obama fellow was such an egregious race baiter...

But, yeah, I do think that his election was a huge shock to a whole lot of folks who see their country slipping away from them demographically...they're scared, they're resentful, and Trump gave it all a voice...beginning with the birther nonsense, the Mexican rapists, then the Muslim ban...and on and on...

[tech37]

Politics is now tightly bundled up with identity -- race, class, religion, culture. It was not that way even just a short time ago. IMO, this is due to 8 years of Obama/Holder and allowing a platform for the likes of Al Sharpton and others. How often was that dope at the WH during BHO's time in office? There were some racial incidents that were blown waaaay out of proportion and that helped create a toxic political environment. It's why we now have the likes of the "the squad" and their toxic fallout. Rightly or wrongly, the Rs definitely dug in over BHO's time, based at first on their rejection of the enactment of ObamaCare. Any decorum was down hill from there (including a sh*tload of other issues), all leading to the current hatefest.

Pretty depressing. And I don't think Trump's inevitable passing will change it. I optimistically disagree.

The partisan environment is entirely Obama's fault, eh? Followed by AOC, eh?

Are you trying to break into the Guinness Book of World Records for the "most ironic comment in the history of the internet"??

Funny you choose AOC, the most benign of the bunch, to make some point. Very typical a fan.

My attempt at a truncated chronology of causation is lost on you...

Yes, most of the current animus regarding race, class, religion, and culture that ggait mentioned, came about during Obama's time in office which then led to Trump being elected ...IMO of course

correction...4 years of Holder, not 8

yup, that Obama fellow was such an egregious race baiter...

But, yeah, I do think that his election was a huge shock to a whole lot of folks who see their country slipping away from them demographically...they're scared, they're resentful, and Trump gave it all a voice...beginning with the birther nonsense, the Mexican rapists, then the Muslim ban...and on and on...

backlash, MDlax, backlash... not saying it's right but it's pretty obvious. So what do you suppose led to the Trump election backlash?

[MDlaxfan76]

Politics is now tightly bundled up with identity -- race, class, religion, culture. It was not that way even just a short time ago. IMO, this is due to 8 years of Obama/Holder and allowing a platform for the likes of Al Sharpton and others. How often was that dope at the WH during BHO's time in office? There were some racial incidents that were blown waaaay out of proportion and that helped create a toxic political environment. It's why we now have the likes of the "the squad" and their toxic fallout. Rightly or wrongly, the Rs definitely dug in over BHO's time, based at first on their rejection of the enactment of ObamaCare. Any decorum was down hill from there (including a sh*tload of other issues), all leading to the current hatefest.

Pretty depressing. And I don't think Trump's inevitable passing will change it. I optimistically disagree.

The partisan environment is entirely Obama's fault, eh? Followed by AOC, eh?

Are you trying to break into the Guinness Book of World Records for the "most ironic comment in the history of the internet"??

Funny you choose AOC, the most benign of the bunch, to make some point. Very typical a fan.

My attempt at a truncated chronology of causation is lost on you...

Yes, most of the current animus regarding race, class, religion, and culture that ggait mentioned, came about during Obama's time in office which then led to Trump being elected ...IMO of course

correction...4 years of Holder, not 8

yup, that Obama fellow was such an egregious race baiter...

But, yeah, I do think that his election was a huge shock to a whole lot of folks who see their country slipping away from them demographically...they're scared, they're resentful, and Trump gave it all a voice...beginning with the birther nonsense, the Mexican rapists, then the Muslim ban...and on and on...

backlash, MDlax, backlash... not saying it's right but it's pretty obvious. So what do you suppose led to the Trump election backlash?

Didn't my second paragraph answer that ???

[jhu72]

What I want to know is, what happens when the House Impeaches. The Senate does not convict, and Trump is re-elected.

If people thought heads exploded in 2016 - we won't have to worry about the coastal elite anymore because some deplorable from Sunshine Cleaning will be wiping their grey matter off of teleprompters in every coastal newsroom and the walls of professors lounges on both coasts.....

It's indeed worrisome if Presidents, especially this one, think they've been green lit to do absolutely anything they want with the power of the office, including rigging their own elections with foreign assistance. And if they actually think that no President can even be investigated, no matter what, Katy bar the door... for authoritarianism is on the way.

And let's say Trump then keels over in a heart attack and it's a new day...think it won't be open season for the next authoritarian who seizes power, regardless of means, immediately gaining immunity from challenge?

Imagine, again, that it doesn't require any where near a majority of voters to win the White House, just a few rigged states...

Trump is definitely going to be impeached by the House.
Open question about conviction, but it's becoming increasingly likely that the trial in the Senate will have some semblance of being held seriously.
Meanwhile the court cases are ticking forward inexorably, with so far, a near clean sweep of every decision going against Trump and his entities.

Odds remain high that the Senate votes at least largely on partisan line with only a handful of defectors, not enough to convict...but also not 100% of the GOP falling in line.

Can the Dems foul it up in the general? You betcha. But I don't think so.

Agreed. Pretty much the way I see it, although I would add I do think the removal vote in the Senate will garner support from a ~half dozen republicans unless the democrats screw up the presentation -- which I think will be hard to do. Frankly I still think the other House investigations and all the court cases Orange Duce is suing (and losing) in represent an equal danger to him. He is likely going to have to refuse to obey a SCOTUS order to "protect" himself. That will give the democrats more opportunity. He is likely to be impeached multiple times.

[tech37]

Politics is now tightly bundled up with identity -- race, class, religion, culture. It was not that way even just a short time ago. IMO, this is due to 8 years of Obama/Holder and allowing a platform for the likes of Al Sharpton and others. How often was that dope at the WH during BHO's time in office? There were some racial incidents that were blown waaaay out of proportion and that helped create a toxic political environment. It's why we now have the likes of the "the squad" and their toxic fallout. Rightly or wrongly, the Rs definitely dug in over BHO's time, based at first on their rejection of the enactment of ObamaCare. Any decorum was down hill from there (including a sh*tload of other issues), all leading to the current hatefest.

Pretty depressing. And I don't think Trump's inevitable passing will change it. I optimistically disagree.

The partisan environment is entirely Obama's fault, eh? Followed by AOC, eh?

Are you trying to break into the Guinness Book of World Records for the "most ironic comment in the history of the internet"??

Funny you choose AOC, the most benign of the bunch, to make some point. Very typical a fan.

My attempt at a truncated chronology of causation is lost on you...

Yes, most of the current animus regarding race, class, religion, and culture that ggait mentioned, came about during Obama's time in office which then led to Trump being elected ...IMO of course

correction...4 years of Holder, not 8

yup, that Obama fellow was such an egregious race baiter...

But, yeah, I do think that his election was a huge shock to a whole lot of folks who see their country slipping away from them demographically...they're scared, they're resentful, and Trump gave it all a voice...beginning with the birther nonsense, the Mexican rapists, then the Muslim ban...and on and on...

backlash, MDlax, backlash... not saying it's right but it's pretty obvious. So what do you suppose led to the Trump election backlash?

Didn't my second paragraph answer that ???

no, no... "led to"...capiche?

[MDlaxfan76]

What I want to know is, what happens when the House Impeaches. The Senate does not convict, and Trump is re-elected.

If people thought heads exploded in 2016 - we won't have to worry about the coastal elite anymore because some deplorable from Sunshine Cleaning will be wiping their grey matter off of teleprompters in every coastal newsroom and the walls of professors lounges on both coasts.....

It's indeed worrisome if Presidents, especially this one, think they've been green lit to do absolutely anything they want with the power of the office, including rigging their own elections with foreign assistance. And if they actually think that no President can even be investigated, no matter what, Katy bar the door... for authoritarianism is on the way.

And let's say Trump then keels over in a heart attack and it's a new day...think it won't be open season for the next authoritarian who seizes power, regardless of means, immediately gaining immunity from challenge?

Imagine, again, that it doesn't require any where near a majority of voters to win the White House, just a few rigged states...

Trump is definitely going to be impeached by the House.
Open question about conviction, but it's becoming increasingly likely that the trial in the Senate will have some semblance of being held seriously.
Meanwhile the court cases are ticking forward inexorably, with so far, a near clean sweep of every decision going against Trump and his entities.

Odds remain high that the Senate votes at least largely on partisan line with only a handful of defectors, not enough to convict...but also not 100% of the GOP falling in line.

Can the Dems foul it up in the general? You betcha. But I don't think so.

Agreed. Pretty much the way I see it, although I would add I do think the removal vote in the Senate will garner support from a ~half dozen republicans unless the democrats screw up the presentation -- which I think will be hard to do. Frankly I still think the other House investigations and all the court cases Orange Duce is suing (and losing) in represent an equal danger to him. He is likely going to have to refuse to obey a SCOTUS order to "protect" himself. That will give the democrats more opportunity. He is likely to be impeached multiple times.

Well, the multiple times aspect seems a bit implausible, at least from now through next November.

But, heaven forbid, he wins, yes, they'll likely have cause to do so again...and the R's will need to deal with it...

Just as importantly, my hunch is that those tax returns and other financial documents are ultimately going to come out...and that's where the public will get an eye-opener.

I also think Rudy is headed to prison. And if that draws a Trump pardon, that too, will be incendiary.

[tech37]

What I want to know is, what happens when the House Impeaches. The Senate does not convict, and Trump is re-elected.

If people thought heads exploded in 2016 - we won't have to worry about the coastal elite anymore because some deplorable from Sunshine Cleaning will be wiping their grey matter off of teleprompters in every coastal newsroom and the walls of professors lounges on both coasts.....

It's indeed worrisome if Presidents, especially this one, think they've been green lit to do absolutely anything they want with the power of the office, including rigging their own elections with foreign assistance. And if they actually think that no President can even be investigated, no matter what, Katy bar the door... for authoritarianism is on the way.

And let's say Trump then keels over in a heart attack and it's a new day...think it won't be open season for the next authoritarian who seizes power, regardless of means, immediately gaining immunity from challenge?

Imagine, again, that it doesn't require any where near a majority of voters to win the White House, just a few rigged states...

Trump is definitely going to be impeached by the House.
Open question about conviction, but it's becoming increasingly likely that the trial in the Senate will have some semblance of being held seriously.
Meanwhile the court cases are ticking forward inexorably, with so far, a near clean sweep of every decision going against Trump and his entities.

Odds remain high that the Senate votes at least largely on partisan line with only a handful of defectors, not enough to convict...but also not 100% of the GOP falling in line.

Can the Dems foul it up in the general? You betcha. But I don't think so.

Agreed. Pretty much the way I see it, although I would add I do think the removal vote in the Senate will garner support from a ~half dozen republicans unless the democrats screw up the presentation -- which I think will be hard to do. Frankly I still think the other House investigations and all the court cases Orange Duce is suing (and losing) in represent an equal danger to him. He is likely going to have to refuse to obey a SCOTUS order to "protect" himself. That will give the democrats more opportunity. He is likely to be impeached multiple times.

Well, the multiple times aspect seems a bit implausible, at least from now through next November.

But, heaven forbid, he wins, yes, they'll likely have cause to do so again...and the R's will need to deal with it...

Just as importantly, my hunch is that those tax returns and other financial documents are ultimately going to come out...and that's where the public will get an eye-opener.

I also think Rudy is headed to prison. And if that draws a Trump pardon, that too, will be incendiary.

Man are you setting yourself up for disappointment

[jhu72]

Politics is now tightly bundled up with identity -- race, class, religion, culture. It was not that way even just a short time ago. IMO, this is due to 8 years of Obama/Holder and allowing a platform for the likes of Al Sharpton and others. How often was that dope at the WH during BHO's time in office? There were some racial incidents that were blown waaaay out of proportion and that helped create a toxic political environment. It's why we now have the likes of the "the squad" and their toxic fallout. Rightly or wrongly, the Rs definitely dug in over BHO's time, based at first on their rejection of the enactment of ObamaCare. Any decorum was down hill from there (including a sh*tload of other issues), all leading to the current hatefest.

Pretty depressing. And I don't think Trump's inevitable passing will change it. I optimistically disagree.

The partisan environment is entirely Obama's fault, eh? Followed by AOC, eh?

Are you trying to break into the Guinness Book of World Records for the "most ironic comment in the history of the internet"??

Funny you choose AOC, the most benign of the bunch, to make some point. Very typical a fan.

My attempt at a truncated chronology of causation is lost on you...

Yes, most of the current animus regarding race, class, religion, and culture that ggait mentioned, came about during Obama's time in office which then led to Trump being elected ...IMO of course

correction...4 years of Holder, not 8

yup, that Obama fellow was such an egregious race baiter...

But, yeah, I do think that his election was a huge shock to a whole lot of folks who see their country slipping away from them demographically...they're scared, they're resentful, and Trump gave it all a voice...beginning with the birther nonsense, the Mexican rapists, then the Muslim ban...and on and on...

backlash, MDlax, backlash... not saying it's right but it's pretty obvious. So what do you suppose led to the Trump election backlash?

Didn't my second paragraph answer that ???

YES - it did.

[wahoomurf]

old salt wrote: You think this secret star chamber, with no due process or rights for the accused, is a PR winner?

Another guy/gal who hasn't a clue about the U.S. Constitution nor the impeachment procedures outlined therein. You must sniff Hannity, Whittaker, Ingraham, and the congressional "storm the door posse" in deep, very deep breaths. You, folks, are either inordinately stupid or can't read. What are you and your kindred spirits so afraid of?

I may be in the minority but I believe the model followed by Trey Gowdy during the Benghazi hearings is a good one. As far as I can see, Mr. Gowdy's process is being followed by the folks running the impeachment hearings.

I am amazed by the number of people like you who've attacked and hate a man, Mr.Taylor, who's served my country with honor. Hand-picked by Republicans to become the ambassador to Ukraine, Russia Hawk, Military Officer, a diplomat in both Republican and Democrat administrations.

SAD.

[MDlaxfan76]

Politics is now tightly bundled up with identity -- race, class, religion, culture. It was not that way even just a short time ago. IMO, this is due to 8 years of Obama/Holder and allowing a platform for the likes of Al Sharpton and others. How often was that dope at the WH during BHO's time in office? There were some racial incidents that were blown waaaay out of proportion and that helped create a toxic political environment. It's why we now have the likes of the "the squad" and their toxic fallout. Rightly or wrongly, the Rs definitely dug in over BHO's time, based at first on their rejection of the enactment of ObamaCare. Any decorum was down hill from there (including a sh*tload of other issues), all leading to the current hatefest.

Pretty depressing. And I don't think Trump's inevitable passing will change it. I optimistically disagree.

The partisan environment is entirely Obama's fault, eh? Followed by AOC, eh?

Are you trying to break into the Guinness Book of World Records for the "most ironic comment in the history of the internet"??

Funny you choose AOC, the most benign of the bunch, to make some point. Very typical a fan.

My attempt at a truncated chronology of causation is lost on you...

Yes, most of the current animus regarding race, class, religion, and culture that ggait mentioned, came about during Obama's time in office which then led to Trump being elected ...IMO of course

correction...4 years of Holder, not 8

yup, that Obama fellow was such an egregious race baiter...

But, yeah, I do think that his election was a huge shock to a whole lot of folks who see their country slipping away from them demographically...they're scared, they're resentful, and Trump gave it all a voice...beginning with the birther nonsense, the Mexican rapists, then the Muslim ban...and on and on...

backlash, MDlax, backlash... not saying it's right but it's pretty obvious. So what do you suppose led to the Trump election backlash?

Didn't my second paragraph answer that ???

no, no... "led to"...capiche?

No, I apparently don't.

His skin color was the issue for those folks. While many of us, including folks like me who didn't vote for him either time, thought it was a wonderful thing that our country had broken through and elected a black person to be POTUS, there were a whole lot of others who were totally shocked.

That demographic has been increasingly worried about their perceived less relevance in the America of tomorrow. It's not as if they've had such a wonderful situation these past 20 years or so as it is, rural and poor white, working class voters, especially males, have not thrived in the era of robotics and global supply competition, the consolidation of farming, the backlash against fossil fuels, the rise in status of women...and they expect it to get worse if there are more immigrants, folks who don't look like them, don't pray like them...and Trump used all of that fear and resentment and played it like a fiddle.

so, yeah, Obama's skin color was a pivot point.

[MDlaxfan76]

old salt wrote: You think this secret star chamber, with no due process or rights for the accused, is a PR winner?

Another guy/gal who hasn't a clue about the U.S. Constitution nor the impeachment procedures outlined therein. You must sniff Hannity, Whittaker, Ingraham, and the congressional "storm the door posse" in deep, very deep breaths. You, folks, are either inordinately stupid or can't read. What are you and your kindred spirits so afraid of?

I may be in the minority but I believe the model followed by Trey Gowdy during the Benghazi hearings is a good one. As far as I can see, Mr. Gowdy's process is being followed by the folks running the impeachment hearings.

I am amazed by the number of people like you who've attacked and hate a man, Mr.Taylor, who's served my country with honor. Hand-picked by Republicans to become the ambassador to Ukraine, Russia Hawk, Military Officer, a diplomat in both Republican and Democrat administrations.

SAD.

Russia Hawk...you forget Salty's predilections.

[MDlaxfan76]

What I want to know is, what happens when the House Impeaches. The Senate does not convict, and Trump is re-elected.

If people thought heads exploded in 2016 - we won't have to worry about the coastal elite anymore because some deplorable from Sunshine Cleaning will be wiping their grey matter off of teleprompters in every coastal newsroom and the walls of professors lounges on both coasts.....

It's indeed worrisome if Presidents, especially this one, think they've been green lit to do absolutely anything they want with the power of the office, including rigging their own elections with foreign assistance. And if they actually think that no President can even be investigated, no matter what, Katy bar the door... for authoritarianism is on the way.

And let's say Trump then keels over in a heart attack and it's a new day...think it won't be open season for the next authoritarian who seizes power, regardless of means, immediately gaining immunity from challenge?

Imagine, again, that it doesn't require any where near a majority of voters to win the White House, just a few rigged states...

Trump is definitely going to be impeached by the House.
Open question about conviction, but it's becoming increasingly likely that the trial in the Senate will have some semblance of being held seriously.
Meanwhile the court cases are ticking forward inexorably, with so far, a near clean sweep of every decision going against Trump and his entities.

Odds remain high that the Senate votes at least largely on partisan line with only a handful of defectors, not enough to convict...but also not 100% of the GOP falling in line.

Can the Dems foul it up in the general? You betcha. But I don't think so.

Agreed. Pretty much the way I see it, although I would add I do think the removal vote in the Senate will garner support from a ~half dozen republicans unless the democrats screw up the presentation -- which I think will be hard to do. Frankly I still think the other House investigations and all the court cases Orange Duce is suing (and losing) in represent an equal danger to him. He is likely going to have to refuse to obey a SCOTUS order to "protect" himself. That will give the democrats more opportunity. He is likely to be impeached multiple times.

Well, the multiple times aspect seems a bit implausible, at least from now through next November.

But, heaven forbid, he wins, yes, they'll likely have cause to do so again...and the R's will need to deal with it...

Just as importantly, my hunch is that those tax returns and other financial documents are ultimately going to come out...and that's where the public will get an eye-opener.

I also think Rudy is headed to prison. And if that draws a Trump pardon, that too, will be incendiary.

Man are you setting yourself up for disappointment

Hope springs eternal, my Trumpist friend.

But yes, I've been sorely disappointed, so far, in many of my fellow Americans.
I just haven't given up hope for them.

[jhu72]

What I want to know is, what happens when the House Impeaches. The Senate does not convict, and Trump is re-elected.

If people thought heads exploded in 2016 - we won't have to worry about the coastal elite anymore because some deplorable from Sunshine Cleaning will be wiping their grey matter off of teleprompters in every coastal newsroom and the walls of professors lounges on both coasts.....

It's indeed worrisome if Presidents, especially this one, think they've been green lit to do absolutely anything they want with the power of the office, including rigging their own elections with foreign assistance. And if they actually think that no President can even be investigated, no matter what, Katy bar the door... for authoritarianism is on the way.

And let's say Trump then keels over in a heart attack and it's a new day...think it won't be open season for the next authoritarian who seizes power, regardless of means, immediately gaining immunity from challenge?

Imagine, again, that it doesn't require any where near a majority of voters to win the White House, just a few rigged states...

Trump is definitely going to be impeached by the House.
Open question about conviction, but it's becoming increasingly likely that the trial in the Senate will have some semblance of being held seriously.
Meanwhile the court cases are ticking forward inexorably, with so far, a near clean sweep of every decision going against Trump and his entities.

Odds remain high that the Senate votes at least largely on partisan line with only a handful of defectors, not enough to convict...but also not 100% of the GOP falling in line.

Can the Dems foul it up in the general? You betcha. But I don't think so.

Agreed. Pretty much the way I see it, although I would add I do think the removal vote in the Senate will garner support from a ~half dozen republicans unless the democrats screw up the presentation -- which I think will be hard to do. Frankly I still think the other House investigations and all the court cases Orange Duce is suing (and losing) in represent an equal danger to him. He is likely going to have to refuse to obey a SCOTUS order to "protect" himself. That will give the democrats more opportunity. He is likely to be impeached multiple times.

Well, the multiple times aspect seems a bit implausible, at least from now through next November.

But, heaven forbid, he wins, yes, they'll likely have cause to do so again...and the R's will need to deal with it...

Just as importantly, my hunch is that those tax returns and other financial documents are ultimately going to come out...and that's where the public will get an eye-opener.

I also think Rudy is headed to prison. And if that draws a Trump pardon, that too, will be incendiary.

YES, if a second term. It is also quite possible that SCOTUS rules that the DOJ prohibition against indictment while in office is nonsense.

[a fan]

Funny you choose AOC, the most benign of the bunch, to make some point. Very typical a fan

Right. That's what I did. Dude. I named the only one I know in "the Squad" that I can name without googling.

Same as every other American that's not tuned into FoxNation. None of us regular folk notice or care about some pointless freshman Congressmen in the minority party in the House. Foxnation? Obsessed. You obsessed with the Squad?

My attempt at a truncated chronology of causation is lost on you...

Riiiiiiight. This partisanship and hatefest didn't exist under Bush, and it was a huggy-lovefest when Bush decided to invade Iraq for no real reason.

It's a "coincidence" that you put partisanship on Obama, and don't even bother mentioning any forces that might have a little R by them.

Sell it somewhere else.

[a fan]

What I want to know is, what happens when the House Impeaches. The Senate does not convict, and Trump is re-elected.
..

Simple. The Coastal elite will continue to get richer and richer, feeding on Trump's grift and endless need to funnel more and more money to the 1%

And Trump's forgotten voters (anyone bother to check in on them?)......will still be forgotten.

[jhu72]

What I want to know is, what happens when the House Impeaches. The Senate does not convict, and Trump is re-elected.
..

Simple. The Coastal elite will continue to get richer and richer, feeding on Trump's grift and endless need to funnel more and more money to the 1%

And Trump's forgotten voters (anyone bother to check in on them?)......will still be forgotten.

Exactly.