Trump's Russian Collusion

[jhu72]

You think this secret star chamber, with no due process or rights for the accused is a PR winner ?

TBD. Right now, if you believe the polls, it seems to be. Long way to go, of course. Seems clear he will be impeached by the House, but acquitted in the Senate. I think it is way too early to know how this will impact the 2020 election. Trump will certainly claim he is exonerated if he is acquitted in the Senate. His base will believe that, but will the independent swing voters? My sense is the impeachment will hurt him. The question is by how much?

Agreed. No way you will get something like 20 republican Senators to vote for removal. From my perspective this is about doing what is right. Seeing wrong and calling it out. The latest polling continues to see a rise in independents in favor of both impeachment and removal. This is the battle for the last remaining voters who's minds can be changed.

The "with no due process" BS is a dog that won't hunt. It is clear and should be clear to anyone not blind that once public hearings begin no one will care about this phase of the investigation. Either the democrats will have a case or they won't. If they have one, they win and will be rewarded. If they don't have one, they lose and will be punished. All else is just whining.

The only aspect of your post that I'd question is the meaning of "win". If you mean that majority of people will believe that impeachment was righteous rather than partisan, perhaps.

If you mean that Trump will be convicted in the senate, that may prove a bridge too far, regardless of the overwhelming evidence of the case.

Not unlike trials in our history in the south of very obvious killers of a black man, nevertheless acquitted by an all white male jury.

Already stated that I do not believe there is any chance of conviction, but that is not the real goal.

[wahoomurf]

Jordan wouldn’t know a crime if it happened in the shower in front of him. Seriously, is there anyone in Congress more famous for looking the other way.
I watched some Fox last night— they were still whining about Deep Whistle process.
Bring on John Bolton.

IN THE SHOWER. So you know of his and Hastert's "post wrestling practice, supplemental workouts" during their tenures as wrestling coaches. I thought those "activities" were closely held secrets. Guess the SANDUSKY scandal at PSU, caused folks to take a second look.

Jordan thumps his chest about his and Hastert's impact on the rise of OSU rasslin'. Rest assured "Wantagh" Tom Ryan, the current coach at Ohio State, who's had a few of Jordan's nephews on the team, would NEVER let that crap happen on his watch.

Whistle, skin flute, schlong, dingle hoffer..."what's in a name"? (Romeo and Juliet)

[seacoaster]

YA wrote:

"If this impeachment moves forward, it sets a new precedent (for each of them) that significantly impacts any and all politicians in their future business dealings. I believe the House knows this and is hoping that political opinion serves their cause and dissuades voters away from Trump. Otherwise, I believe the House is playing with fire; and they know it."

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't see the "new precedent," in connection with a procedure used in relation to a President two or four times, and only 19 times in all (the rest are cabinet officers and federal judges):

See: https://www.history.com/news/how-many-p ... -impeached

Clinton was impeached by the [GOP majority] House for lying under oath in a grand jury proceeding (which now, as I understand it, passes as a little trifling "process crime) after a four year investigation and on the basis of an investigative report by the aptly named "Starr").

Johnson was impeached on 11 articles, the most frequently mentioned of which was unlawfully suspending the Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton, in violation of the Tenure of Office Act.

Trump would be -- and I think will be -- impeached by a simple majority of the House on a charge like misuse of his office and powers, with subsidiary articles for conspiracy to commit extortion using public and publicly appropriated funds. It is actually much, much more akin to what the Framers of the Constitution had in mind as impeachable actions, as the op-ed piece by Ron Chernow that I posted a few days ago emphatically demonstrates. As the House website -- and it's not a Democratic or Republican website -- says:

"Impeachment comes from British constitutional history. The process evolved from the 14th century as a way for parliament to hold the king’s ministers accountable for their public actions. Impeachment, as Alexander Hamilton of New York explained in Federalist 65, varies from civil or criminal courts in that it strictly involves the “misconduct of public men, or in other words from the abuse or violation of some public trust.” Individual state constitutions had provided for impeachment for “maladministration” or “corruption” before the U.S. Constitution was written. And the founders, fearing the potential for abuse of executive power, considered impeachment so important that they made it part of the Constitution even before they defined the contours of the presidency."

So impeaching this President for the acts and on the facts I have described sets a precedent, but it seems hardly new; it seems that the Framers of the Constitution were, for the umpteenth time, prescient.

For new precedents, I would suggest you reach back to President Trump's diversion of appropriated and earmarked money to the "wall" escapade as a "national emergency" -- again, in the service of a campaign promise and the President's unrelenting effort from Day 1 to be reelected. That's one new precedent I've seen that every American should be concerned about.

[jhu72]

Jordan wouldn’t know a crime if it happened in the shower in front of him. Seriously, is there anyone in Congress more famous for looking the other way.
I watched some Fox last night— they were still whining about Deep Whistle process.
Bring on John Bolton.

IN THE SHOWER. So you know of his and Hastert's "post wrestling practice, supplemental workouts" during their tenures as wrestling coaches. I thought those "activities" were closely held secrets. Guess the SANDUSKY scandal at PSU, caused folks to take a second look.

Jordan thumps his chest about his and Hastert's impact on the rise of OSU rasslin'. Rest assured "Wantagh" Tom Ryan, the current coach at Ohio State, who's had a few of Jordan's nephews on the team, would NEVER let that dump happen on his watch.

Whistle, skin flute, schlong, dingle hoffer..."what's in a name"? (Romeo and Juliet)

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/spor ... e.amp.html

Gym Jordan was busy folding towels. Didn’t notice anything

[ggait]

Actually, the deliverable is not the dirt - the deliverable was for the President of the Ukraine to publicly announce an investigation into both the Bidens and Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election. That is all Trump wanted - he did not really care if there was any dirt delivered (as there was not really).

Becoming more clear that what Trump was seeking mostly was the public announcement and the cloud of a supposedly ongoing investigation. Zelensky had to "go to a microphone" and "be put in a public box." That actually makes a stronger case for extortion/impeachment.

Trump just wants the public smear. Who cares if anything is ever actually investigated or found. Just look at how well butteremails worked.

State dept report comes out in Sept 2019 saying there really wasn't much there -- three years after the damage was done.

[CU88]

Anyone following the court action on o d tax access at SDNY Second Circuit today?

Some juicy tidbits:

Dunne questions what would happen if the president "did pull a gun out and [shot] someone on Fifth Avenue."
Would police be disabled? he asks

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/sta ... 2044206080


Finding that the fight was not a federal one, U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero dismissed Trump’s lawsuit challenging the probe.

https://www.courthousenews.com/judge-de ... tax-fight/

“Shunning the concept of the inviolability of the person of the King of England and the bounds of the monarch’s protective screen covering the Crown’s actions from legal scrutiny, the Founders disclaimed any notion that the Constitution generally conferred similarly all-encompassing immunity upon the president,” Marrero wrote in a 75-page opinion.

[CU88]

Anyone following the court action on o d tax access at SDNY Second Circuit today?

Some juicy tidbits:

Dunne questions what would happen if the president "did pull a gun out and [shot] someone on Fifth Avenue."
Would police be disabled? he asks

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/sta ... 2044206080


Finding that the fight was not a federal one, U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero dismissed Trump’s lawsuit challenging the probe.

https://www.courthousenews.com/judge-de ... tax-fight/

“Shunning the concept of the inviolability of the person of the King of England and the bounds of the monarch’s protective screen covering the Crown’s actions from legal scrutiny, the Founders disclaimed any notion that the Constitution generally conferred similarly all-encompassing immunity upon the president,” Marrero wrote in a 75-page opinion.

OMG

Trump's attorney Consovoy just agreed that Trump could NOT be criminally investigated while in office if he shot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue, when pressed by Judge Chin.

Does anyone actually believe this?

If o d took an AK-47 into Congress and killed everyone in the Senate, they would let him walk back to the WH waving to the Deplorables???

[ggait]

Pence suggests Bill Taylor is from the Swamp.

WH statement Tuesday afternoon after Taylor's testimony:

“President Trump has done nothing wrong – this is a coordinated smear campaign from far-left lawmakers and radical unelected bureaucrats waging war on the Constitution.”

Love how easily Bone Spurs trashes all these guys who served in Nam -- Mueller, Taylor, Mattis.

With respect to Taylor, look how ridiculous this is. Hand picked and strong armed by Pompeo to take this job only four months ago. But now Taylor is Che Guevarra? Pathetic.

[CU88]

o d > USA?

[ggait]

Trump's attorney Consovoy just agreed that Trump could NOT be criminally investigated while in office if he shot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue, when pressed by Judge Chin.

L etat cest moi!!

Banana forking Republicans.

After the 2nd Circuit whack-a-moles this garbage, I hope SCOTUS just declines to hear the stupid case. Why dignify such nonsense.

[Bandito]

Democrats have no message. They know impeachment is a ruse. They’ve been threatening it since before Trump was elected. Why don’t the Dems come up with good ideas on the economy, health care, border security, et al? It’s because they know if they told the truth about their ideas, no one would vote for them! They fundamentally want to change us into a socialist utopia, a fascist regime. These aren’t the democrats of yesteryear where they wanted the best for the country, as did Republicans but they just disagreed on a few things. The left are bigots, racists and fascists. They own counterculture ( if you don’t agree with something they want to eliminate it and protest against it ( Chick Fil-A etc). They want to ban guns and promote the idea that sex changes at the youth level is appropriate ( it’s child abuse). They support open borders so rapists, abusers, and government leeches can come into our country and overrun it to create a new world order.

No one with a functioning brain would vote Democrat today. There is no collusion evidence or evidence to bring charges against a duly elected president. Democrats are evil, deranged people who’s party will be a nothing burger in a few years. Losers

[a fan]

So within the context of the entire conversation, toward the end he brought up Biden. You want to impeach a sitting POTUS over this? If so, IMO you're interpretation of the discussion is incredibly biased.

You must not be paying attention to this story. You can throw away the transcripts and throw the whistleblower off a bridge. You don't need them.

And the reason you don't need them (I have no idea how you missed this), is that Trump told the world on live TV that yes, he asked the Ukrainian President to investigate his political enemy, Joe Biden. That's illegal. FEC, letter of the law.

The reason so many of are shaking our heads is that it is incomprehensible to us that you (and others) don't understand what an insane abuse of power that is. And we have NO CHOICE but to impeach Trump. Because if we don't? It is now open season on political enemies.

This isn't bias talking. Bias is looking the other way because you can't stand Rachel Maddow.

Example that is an exact parallel with a lesser player? Remember how mad I was at the Lerner IRS scandal? Jailtime. Someone should have served in jail for that. Why? For the same reason you can't make a call to the Ukrainian President like that: you can't use the power of office to go after your political enemies. That's Nixonian. Or Soviet. Or DDR.


Look. This impeachment----just the attempt-----is stalling a excise tax extension that will cost me personally $500K cash next year. But I still believe we HAVE to impeach. You can't let a President go after enemies like that.

And as I explained to YouthAthletics: if Trump didn't mention Biden by name? I have zero-----zero-----problem with what Trump did.

But. That's not what happened. And here we are.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Trump's attorney Consovoy just agreed that Trump could NOT be criminally investigated while in office if he shot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue, when pressed by Judge Chin.

Letat cest moi!!

Banana forking Republicans.

[ggait]

Bandito --

According to a survey that came out the other day, 55% of Republicans for whom Fox News is their primary news source say there is nothing Trump could do to lose their approval.

Are you part of the 55% by any chance? Asking for a friend.

[Bandito]

Bandito --

According to a survey that came out the other day, 55% of Republicans for whom Fox News is their primary news source say there is nothing Trump could do to lose their approval.

Are you part of the 55% by any chance? Asking for a friend.

You’re part of the population who voted for Hillary. Shows how much you know about anything including politics. For folks who predicted Trumps initial win in 2016, they’re predicting another large electoral victory in 2020. You’re falling for the exact trap that got you and your pathetic ilk who believed Hillary would crush Trump. Keep believing bogus polls. Trump won’t lose in 2020. He’s waaaaay ahead of his pace from 2016. It’s remarkable to see given the media’s constant attack on him. Over 95% of coverage of Trump is negative. Most Americans are waking up the the Democrats Bs and fake news media. Blacks and Hispanics are flocking to him in droves. Your party will be DONE after 2020. Losing seems to be a theme you enjoy. Get used to it

Here’s the link if you need to pour salt in your wounds

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/201 ... etter.html

[wahoomurf]

A close friend, a West Point grad, texted me some shocking information. He claimed Pompeo (G) also attended West Point. I did some fact-checking. Sure enough, the guy who was appointed by Trump to succeed Rex Tillerson as U.S. Secretary of State is indeed a West Point Graduate.

Bill Taylor is as well, a West Point Graduate.

Apparently the concept of Duty, Honor, and Country are subjective.

While I write this the COOO is on TV, reading a fable off a teleprompter.

It's now official. The solipsist-in-chief has cut both the State Department AND the Pentagon, out of inclusion in the process of Governing the United States.

[ggait]

Bandito --

According to a survey that came out the other day, 55% of Republicans for whom Fox News is their primary news source say there is nothing Trump could do to lose their approval.

Are you part of the 55% by any chance? Asking for a friend.

You’re part of the population who voted for Hillary. Shows how much you know about anything including politics. For folks who predicted Trumps initial win in 2016, they’re predicting another large electoral victory in 2020. You’re falling for the exact trap that got you and your pathetic ilk who believed Hillary would crush Trump. Keep believing bogus polls. Trump won’t lose in 2020. He’s waaaaay ahead of his pace from 2016. It’s remarkable to see given the media’s constant attack on him. Over 95% of coverage of Trump is negative. Most Americans are waking up the the Democrats Bs and fake news media. Blacks and Hispanics are flocking to him in droves. Your party will be DONE after 2020. Losing seems to be a theme you enjoy. Get used to it

So in other words, yes. There's nothing that Trump could ever do that would change your support for him. Thanks for confirming.

[jhu72]

Trump's attorney Consovoy just agreed that Trump could NOT be criminally investigated while in office if he shot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue, when pressed by Judge Chin.

L etat cest moi!!

Banana forking Republicans.

After the 2nd Circuit whack-a-moles this garbage, I hope SCOTUS just declines to hear the stupid case. Why dignify such nonsense.

Could happen. That would be the appropriate response.

[HooDat]

The solipsist-in-chief has cut both the State Department AND the Pentagon, out of inclusion in the process of Governing the United States.

not to overly pick nits, but I don't believe the State Department or the Pentagon are SUPPOSED to be part of governing the United States

Last I checked, they are supposed to operate under the direction of the president of the United States, who along with Congress, is supposed to govern the United States....