Johns Hopkins 2020

[HopFan16]

Zinn needs to start right away. Why? Because IL. You don’t run a team based on IL player rankings. You run a team based on what occurs in practices, in film rooms, in conditioning etc etc. God forbid anyone should look at issues like injuries, suspensions, people in key positions who need to communicate loudly on the field but just can’t get there.

All you had to do is take one look at the kid. Had nothing to do with rankings.

So glad my kid is not playing for Hopkins, the way you put down kids on your own team is a disgrace.

Didn't you say your kid plays for Army? I'm pretty sure he's going to need a much thicker skin there.

[ohmilax34]

Towson and loyola have put together really nice programs, not sure why they're not getting more kids.

Can never tell when you're being facetious but they're not in the same stratosphere academically. You know this

Though according to Petey B. the Wise, Loyola has the greatest recruiting class in history coming in this year so I guess we'll see.

In other words, tell us where Hop "should" finish.

Then tell us, based on how horrible Petro is at coaching, where Hop will actually finish.

Note I didn't say Petro is "horrible" at coaching—but to take your argument to its logical conclusion, apparently he is utterly infallible and bears absolutely no responsibility whatsoever for how his team performs. Coaching does not exist, it is a figment of the imagination. There is no such thing as strategy, X's and O's, player development, film, scouting, matchups, teaching, learning, improvement, motivation, personnel decisions. None of these things are real. Once players join a team, the entire season plays out in a simulation. Whatever the final rankings are, that's also exactly how cumulatively talented each team was. No team with more talent has ever lost to a team with less talent in the history of sport. If that happens, that means that the team that won in fact had more talent. It is thus impossible to lose a game with more talent.

It's recruiting. JHU hasn't gotten Sowers, Spencer, Ament, Kraus, Bernhardt, Heningburg, Garnsey, Nanticoke, Fields, O'Keefe, Moore, Reeves, Morrill. Not only that, they still haven't recruited the next Matt Bocklet (they didn't recruit him either).

It's coaching. Look at Desimone regressing, Cole Williams not reaching his potential (still has one season), the experienced defense that can't defend. The JHU Stanwicks never were as good as Steele.

Obviously, it isn't just one thing, so if we can treat this like the complicated situation that it is, then we might have a better discussion. They are getting SOME great recruits, but they've missed out on some players who've really dominated in college (see list above). I think everyone would love to have Epstein on their team. Just because JHU won 2 titles, doesn't mean the current coaching staff is as good as the coaching staffs of their CURRENT competitors. Sure, they are good coaches, just like all NFL coaches are good coaches, but the Patriots still win every year. OCanada would probably bring up injuries to complicate things even more. Maybe that's a (S&C) coaching thing.

So glad my kid is not playing for Hopkins, the way you put down kids on your own team is a disgrace.

Guy isn't a Hopkins fan.

Thanks Catbird! I thought I was harsher on the coaching. I am repeating many of the points made on this forum to show the obvious point that this is a complicated question with an answer more difficult than "it's recruiting" or "it's the coaching". However, we all know who is in charge of both the coaching and the recruiting.

[steel_hop]

So just to put it in perspective on recruiting and then look at results. Here is the IL ranks from 2009 to 2018

UVA has had all 10 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (2 titles and 3 FF over that time)
UNC has had all 10 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (1 title, 1 FF)
JHU has had all 10 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (no titles 1 FF)
ND has had all 10 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (no titles, 4 FFs)
MD has had 9 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (1 title, 7 FFs)
SU has had 8 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (no titles, 1 FF)
Duke has had 8 of their their classes ranked in the top 10 (3 titles, 7 FFs)
Denver has had 7 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (1 title, 5 FFs)
Harvard has had 6 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (0 titles, 0 FFs)
Princeton has had 4 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (0 titles, 0 FFs)
Cornell has had 3 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (2 FFs)
Penn State has had 3 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (0 titles, 1 FF)
Penn has had 3 of their classes ranked in the top ten (0 titles, 0 FF)
Yale has had 2 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (1 title, 1 FF) (note only top 10 recruiting classes where 2018 and 2015)
Brown has had 2 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (0 titles, 1 FF)
OSU has had 2 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (0 titles, 1 FF)

The following teams have had at least 1 top ten recruiting class in the last 10 years
Lehigh, NOVA, Georgetown

Here who has won titles over that time period
Duke - 2010, 2013, 2014 (3)
UVA - 2011, 2019 (2)
Denver - 2015 (1)
UMd - 2017 (1)
UNC - 2016 (1)
Yale - 2018 (1)
Loyola - 2012 (1)

Thus, outside of Yale and Loyola, there is a strong correlation to a schools recruiting rankings to titles won and final four appearances. I'm not sure anyone would disagree with this point. This doesn't mean if you have a strong recruiting class you are going to make a FF. If you want to look at it the teams with the highest recruiting ranks that have the worst results are easily Hopkins, Syracuse and Harvard (UNC would be in this group but for the 2016 year). While you can argue that Hopkins recruits have somewhat of a "push-up" the ranks bias, wouldn't that also be the same for recruits going to a team like UVA and Duke given their stature in the game. In other words, I find the argument that the Hopkins "bias" has some truth to it but a lot more of this issue has been once said recruits have gotten on campus. Some players not reaching their potential is outside of players or coaches control - like injuries but some of it is completely on the players and the coaches.

[OCanada]

Hop fan 16. Really? And you know talent levels how? Were you at practices ? I am guessing no. Do you know if he was where he was supposed to be when he was supposed to be there? Again I think no. I don’t think you know what his role was supposed be. Do you know what his off season assignments were this summer?

Using IL class rankings to evaluate teams performance is kind of like inductive reasoning. Class rankings are based on player rankings. It has the same flaws. It also not very insightful when there were less than 10 teams that could win a title

[a fan]

Note I didn't say Petro is "horrible" at coaching—but to take your argument to its logical conclusion, apparently he is utterly infallible and bears absolutely no responsibility whatsoever for how his team performs. Coaching does not exist, it is a figment of the imagination. There is no such thing as strategy, X's and O's, player development, film, scouting, matchups, teaching, learning, improvement, motivation, personnel decisions. None of these things are real. Once players join a team, the entire season plays out in a simulation. Whatever the final rankings are, that's also exactly how cumulatively talented each team was. No team with more talent has ever lost to a team with less talent in the history of sport. If that happens, that means that the team that won in fact had more talent. It is thus impossible to lose a game with more talent.

Nice rant.

I'll cut through the chaff for you.

If you had to reach the Final Four consistently over 10 years, which would you rather have:

-your choice of Division I rosters, or

-your choice of Division I coaches.


You know the answer.

[HopFan16]

Hop fan 16. Really? And you know talent levels how?

I have eyes





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGfC6Fjzd9I&t=14m37s

[Sagittarius A*]

So just to put it in perspective on recruiting and then look at results. Here is the IL ranks from 2009 to 2018

UVA has had all 10 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (2 titles and 3 FF over that time)
UNC has had all 10 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (1 title, 1 FF)
JHU has had all 10 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (no titles 1 FF)
ND has had all 10 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (no titles, 4 FFs)
MD has had 9 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (1 title, 7 FFs)
SU has had 8 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (no titles, 1 FF)
Duke has had 8 of their their classes ranked in the top 10 (3 titles, 7 FFs)
Denver has had 7 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (1 title, 5 FFs)
Harvard has had 6 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (0 titles, 0 FFs)
Princeton has had 4 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (0 titles, 0 FFs)
Cornell has had 3 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (2 FFs)
Penn State has had 3 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (0 titles, 1 FF)
Penn has had 3 of their classes ranked in the top ten (0 titles, 0 FF)
Yale has had 2 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (1 title, 1 FF) (note only top 10 recruiting classes where 2018 and 2015)
Brown has had 2 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (0 titles, 1 FF)
OSU has had 2 of their classes ranked in the top 10 (0 titles, 1 FF)

The following teams have had at least 1 top ten recruiting class in the last 10 years
Lehigh, NOVA, Georgetown

Here who has won titles over that time period
Duke - 2010, 2013, 2014 (3)
UVA - 2011, 2019 (2)
Denver - 2015 (1)
UMd - 2017 (1)
UNC - 2016 (1)
Yale - 2018 (1)
Loyola - 2012 (1)

Thus, outside of Yale and Loyola, there is a strong correlation to a schools recruiting rankings to titles won and final four appearances. I'm not sure anyone would disagree with this point. This doesn't mean if you have a strong recruiting class you are going to make a FF. If you want to look at it the teams with the highest recruiting ranks that have the worst results are easily Hopkins, Syracuse and Harvard (UNC would be in this group but for the 2016 year). While you can argue that Hopkins recruits have somewhat of a "push-up" the ranks bias, wouldn't that also be the same for recruits going to a team like UVA and Duke given their stature in the game. In other words, I find the argument that the Hopkins "bias" has some truth to it but a lot more of this issue has been once said recruits have gotten on campus. Some players not reaching their potential is outside of players or coaches control - like injuries but some of it is completely on the players and the coaches.

Your points are well taken. A lot of us on here want to see the plug pulled. My thinking at this point is no Final Four in 2020, no contract extension. This is pretty much what Debbie Yow said to Dave Cottle and we all know how that turned out.

[HopFan16]

Anyone know why the Princeton game is in NJ again, two years in a row?

https://goprincetontigers.com/news/2019 ... edule.aspx

[wgdsr]

Anyone know why the Princeton game is in NJ again, two years in a row?

https://goprincetontigers.com/news/2019 ... edule.aspx

teams don't give that away easily. my guess it's either:
-- hopkins having to break on a (rolling 2 year?) agreement for the following year... which i find unlikely given how long they've played, it's early season and shouldn't be a b1g conference problem. (unless uva or duke is coming back in 2021?)
-- more likely, it's princeton calling in a marker on having had more games, even relatively recently, in baltimore.

[51percentcorn]

Anyone know why the Princeton game is in NJ again, two years in a row?

https://goprincetontigers.com/news/2019 ... edule.aspx

Of course I have no definitive knowledge but maybe Hopkins agreed to it - or even broached it - to balance out the schedule a little bit between home and away. So in an odd year right now Hopkins is @Towson, @ Princeton, @ Syracuse, @ UNC and 3 of the 5 BIG games could be away
So in ' 20 one assumes the Towson Tigers/Orange/Heels will be in Baltimore along with Maryland/Penn State and Michigan - so maybe Hop was OK with the trip up to Princeton to get them in Baltimore in '21.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Note I didn't say Petro is "horrible" at coaching—but to take your argument to its logical conclusion, apparently he is utterly infallible and bears absolutely no responsibility whatsoever for how his team performs. Coaching does not exist, it is a figment of the imagination. There is no such thing as strategy, X's and O's, player development, film, scouting, matchups, teaching, learning, improvement, motivation, personnel decisions. None of these things are real. Once players join a team, the entire season plays out in a simulation. Whatever the final rankings are, that's also exactly how cumulatively talented each team was. No team with more talent has ever lost to a team with less talent in the history of sport. If that happens, that means that the team that won in fact had more talent. It is thus impossible to lose a game with more talent.

Nice rant.

I'll cut through the chaff for you.

If you had to reach the Final Four consistently over 10 years, which would you rather have:

-your choice of Division I rosters, or

-your choice of Division I coaches.


You know the answer.

Sure. Both.

[a fan]

Split the baby in half. Well done, Solomon!

[smoova]

So glad my kid is not playing for Hopkins, the way you put down kids on your own team is a disgrace.

Didn't you say your kid plays for Army? I'm pretty sure he's going to need a much thicker skin there.

Heh ... no. We don't eat our young.

[steel_hop]

Note I didn't say Petro is "horrible" at coaching—but to take your argument to its logical conclusion, apparently he is utterly infallible and bears absolutely no responsibility whatsoever for how his team performs. Coaching does not exist, it is a figment of the imagination. There is no such thing as strategy, X's and O's, player development, film, scouting, matchups, teaching, learning, improvement, motivation, personnel decisions. None of these things are real. Once players join a team, the entire season plays out in a simulation. Whatever the final rankings are, that's also exactly how cumulatively talented each team was. No team with more talent has ever lost to a team with less talent in the history of sport. If that happens, that means that the team that won in fact had more talent. It is thus impossible to lose a game with more talent.

Nice rant.

I'll cut through the chaff for you.

If you had to reach the Final Four consistently over 10 years, which would you rather have:

-your choice of Division I rosters, or

-your choice of Division I coaches.


You know the answer.

Sure. Both.

Lavell Edwards (the esteemed BYU football coach) was once asked whether he would rather have in his receivers. Would he rather have quick receivers or fast receivers.

Lavell answered, "Both. But, if they did they would be going to USC."

[tech37]

Note I didn't say Petro is "horrible" at coaching—but to take your argument to its logical conclusion, apparently he is utterly infallible and bears absolutely no responsibility whatsoever for how his team performs. Coaching does not exist, it is a figment of the imagination. There is no such thing as strategy, X's and O's, player development, film, scouting, matchups, teaching, learning, improvement, motivation, personnel decisions. None of these things are real. Once players join a team, the entire season plays out in a simulation. Whatever the final rankings are, that's also exactly how cumulatively talented each team was. No team with more talent has ever lost to a team with less talent in the history of sport. If that happens, that means that the team that won in fact had more talent. It is thus impossible to lose a game with more talent.

Nice rant.

I'll cut through the chaff for you.

If you had to reach the Final Four consistently over 10 years, which would you rather have:

-your choice of Division I rosters, or

-your choice of Division I coaches.


You know the answer.

Sure. Both.

Lavell Edwards (the esteemed BYU football coach) was once asked whether he would rather have in his receivers. Would he rather have quick receivers or fast receivers.

Lavell answered, "Both. But, if they did they would be going to USC."

That is a great quote

[Lenwood117]

So glad my kid is not playing for Hopkins, the way you put down kids on your own team is a disgrace.

Didn't you say your kid plays for Army? I'm pretty sure he's going to need a much thicker skin there.

Heh ... no. We don't eat our young.

My kid can handle it, but has a parent I think u can get your point across without throwing kids under the bus

[smoova]

So glad my kid is not playing for Hopkins, the way you put down kids on your own team is a disgrace.

Didn't you say your kid plays for Army? I'm pretty sure he's going to need a much thicker skin there.

Heh ... no. We don't eat our young.

My kid can handle it, but has a parent I think u can get your point across without throwing kids under the bus

Agreed. Beat Navy

[OCanada]

Hop fan 16. In other words you don’t watch practices where PT is earned. Probably never coached or played. And from your posts don’t have a good grasp of it either. I have eyes??? Lololol

[Sagittarius A*]

Hop fan 16. In other words you don’t watch practices where PT is earned. Probably never coached or played. And from your posts don’t have a good grasp of it either. I have eyes??? Lololol

Practice is one thing. Games are another. If a kid can light it up in practice but chokes in games, what good is he? He’s a practice player and that’s all.

[HopFan16]

Hop fan 16. In other words you don’t watch practices where PT is earned. Probably never coached or played. And from your posts don’t have a good grasp of it either. I have eyes??? Lololol

Are you Petro's publicist? Here we go again with this "watching practice" garbage. It's the same song over and over again. This traditionalist, uncreative, old-school, by-the-book way of thinking is killing us.

He "earned" PT for wings on faceoffs, but not in offensive sets? Where he was benched in favor of a guy who has 2 career points in 21 games? Makes a lot of sense. Must have scored a lot of goals in practice, which we all know matters a lot more than games.