CNN Special Report: Scheme and Scandal

[MDlaxfan76]

Just saw a preview of Fareed Zacharia's documentary airing tonight on the "College Admissions Scandal".

It's going to particularly rip the advantages athlete applicants get, arguing that these advantages are largely benefiting wealthier white families...and it takes heavy aim at lacrosse.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Thanks, Duke.

[laxxygilmore]

I wonder if he ever resolved those multiple plagiarism accusations from CNN, TIME and WaPo?

[44WeWantMore]

I am going to go out on a limb here and assume he is preparing a big lie to get to his bottom line which will ensure people talk about this. He will point out the gap in academic admissions criteria between the average student-athlete and the average non-student-athlete, not mentioning that admissions help for revenue and non-revenue sports differs greatly. He will then count by race student athletes and note there are more white athletes than black athletes, again without distributing them across revenue and non-revenue sports.

While lacrosse may not be women's squash, it is not SEC Football either.

Several of the Ivy league fans here seem to have a pretty fair idea of the AIs of various sports, but here is an example of why a truthful reporter would not lump together all athletes:

The fencing Team AIs are expected to provide offsets for the lower Team AIs for football and other money sports, leaving little room to recruit fencers’ whose Individual AIs fall one standard deviation or more below the Campus AI.

https://www.fencingparents.org/college- ... of-fencers

[Wheels]

Since non-revenue sports are enrollment management winners, of course this will skew towards wealthier families. Since wealth and race/ethnicity are strongly correlated (find a country where that isn't the case), it's not surprising this will skew white in the US. Not really sure this measures up as a scandal...not like the flat out bribery and fake applications that we saw with Aunt Becky and that cohort.

[Dip&Dunk]

As a graduate of Cathedral and John Connon School, Fareed Zacharia should know all about race (caste), privilege and power.

[palaxoff]

If you look at most non revenue sports I think we all know what the demographic is. It has something to due with access to different sports and wealth so is this really breaking news?

The club sport biz model only compounds to this issue, with the promise of scholarships. You can find 100's of article on this internet like this

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uneven-pla ... th-sports/

My question is why is it wrong to want to give your kid a leg up if life if you can?

[Surfs_Up]

Oh heck, the world isn't fair. Can we all just agree on that, and that you will never be able to make it perfect!

If people wants scholarships, sit your kid down and make him do homework. There's a lot more money available to kids with 4.0 GPA's than in sports. But hey, some neighborhoods, parents will spend hours and thousands of dollars to get their kids 40 time down by .10. I guess it's more fun than geometry.

[Hail to the Victors]

This whole thread makes me feel unsafe.

It should be shut down immediately.

[Typical Lax Dad]

This whole thread makes me feel unsafe.

It should be shut down immediately.

Given your handle, the ‘bucks should make you feel unsafe!

[Drcthru]

This whole thread makes me feel unsafe.

It should be shut down immediately.

Given your handle, the ‘bucks should make you feel unsafe!

+1

[Typical Lax Dad]

This whole thread makes me feel unsafe.

It should be shut down immediately.

Given your handle, the ‘bucks should make you feel unsafe!

+1

_ichigan has gone down hill.... OSU is going to put in on the_ again!

[jersey shore lax]

Here is my take.... give me a kid with a 3.8 1250 SAT that participates in sports over a kid with a 3.9 1400 SAT that did nothing but study, the athlete will have much better time management skills. Studies also show that athlete/alumni give back to schools financially far more then NARP's - Admissions is always trying to build well rounded classes and I am sure that at any school you will find great artist and musicians that might not have the SAT scores of many of the pure students.

[CU77]

By coincidence, the article I read just before coming over to fanlax was this one on the general state of meritocracy today:

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/10/ ... -markovits

Makes some pretty interesting points, IMO.

[MDlaxfan76]

By coincidence, the article I read just before coming over to fanlax was this one on the general state of meritocracy today:

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/10/ ... -markovits

Makes some pretty interesting points, IMO.

The author, Yale prof Daniel Markovits, was featured on the special last night.

First on the special. It came across to me as a mash up, conflating various issues to be provocative, but in the process confusing between truly egregious aspects of our society and those that are simply troubling and deserving of further thought.

To conflate the actual admissions scandal, the bribing of coaches to 'support' an undeserved admission and the fraudulent taking of tests, with athlete admissions overall? As if equal? The unwary watcher would think that was the implication.

And indeed the actual analysis was quite weak. As 44wewantmore alludes, the athletes most likely to have been given a large leg up at the 'elite' schools are disproportionately football players, plus some basketball players, and these groups are also considerably more diverse than the overall athlete group. A more complete analysis would have held race and socioeconomic factors equal and then look at the AI disparity (grades and SAT/ACT/AP scores). It would undoubtedly be much closer. Not the same, but closer.

It's also important to recognize the large numbers of perfect or near perfect test scoring applicants who are nevertheless rejected. why? Because their entire focus has been on the grade/test scores rather than pursuing a particular passion, whether academic or extracurricular. Those passions, and the commitments made to achieve them, are far more predictive of future success than the test scores. But don't cry for those high academic rejects, they land elsewhere just fine and get their shot.

While the special also challenged the legacy advantage (which is real but very, very far from sufficient as most legacy applicants are not admitted), the attention to the athletic group seems particularly unfair when we understand that other special passions are likewise given preference, whether the world class cellist or actor or artist or social entrepreneur. While these preferences are less formalized, they also aren't regulated in the Ivies the way that the Ivy League regulates athletic admissions.

Finally, there's a significant group of applicants who score at lower academic levels but are 'advantaged' because of various social disadvantages. These can range from race to economic disadvantage, but also family issues and challenges faced and overcome. We can argue that there should be even more effort to advantage such applicants, but it seems to me that the 'elite' schools, both colleges and private prep schools, do a significantly more concerted effort to advantage those with social disadvantages than do less elite schools which are more focused on needing a higher proportion of full pay students.

And then we get back to those high performing academic students not admitted...

Already a long post, so I'll take the meritocracy response to another post. Along with indeed the 'sorting' that occurs in athletics related to ability to afford the extra coaching, travel and other access.

[OCanada]

I am not sure I agree with the elite school statement. A study of Harvard I read not long ago woukd seem to show that a significant number of admits have preexisting ties to alums and wealth.

[MDlaxfan76]

I am not sure I agree with the elite school statement. A study of Harvard I read not long ago woukd seem to show that a significant number of admits have preexisting ties to alums and wealth.

Yes they do, as does my alma mater Dartmouth. True of all the Ivies.
My sense is that Harvard weighs wealth (massive gifts) more than does Dartmouth, but that could just be my Big Green bias.

However, the Ivies each turn away a surprisingly large # and % of legacy applicants each year. I'm not in any way refuting the core critique that legacy preference does advantage the predominant demographic of their parents, and for them their parents. However, folks are often surprised by how hard it remains for legacies to achieve admittance. Whole lot of alums are disappointed each year to learn that their kid is not going to be admitted despite being a solid citizen, solid student, multi-sport athlete (but not at recruitment level), etc. In a prior era that profile, these alums know, would have gained admittance. But not now. Now there needs to be at least some demonstrated significant passion and/or area of real excellence. Else, the next point, large scale gifts.

And, yes, there's also a very disturbing overlap with wealth, particularly huge wealth.

Having been involved in school economics a bit at both HS and college levels, it's indeed a factor in how schools try to achieve a balance that enables them to build the sorts of endowments that allow them to provide high levels of scholarship aid and to attract the best faculties. Money matters. I don't envy those trying to find that balance.

So, I totally support efforts to give preference to those from real socioeconomic and family disadvantage, the notion that 'grit' may well be more important in the long run than HS academic performance.

But the point is that there's much more complexity than perhaps meets the eye.

[PeteStreet]

Does Fareed provide test scores and HS GPAs for those suspected of receiving advantageous preference? What about their respective schools’ admissions standards and scholarship criteria?

[44WeWantMore]

A couple of quick hits:

Massive Gifts: I personally know a donor to a highly-selective school (but non-Ivy, let alone Harvard). Fact is that seven figures barely moves the needle on a well-qualified applicant. It would take a building to get a poorly-qualified (say 25th percentile) past admissions, where football and basketball recruits would have a much better chance. Also, SteelHop has posted about a JHU alumnus who gave substantially (I assume he meant six figures +) and found his well-qualified child rejected. That is why Aunt Becky's low-six figure bribe is a bargain.

Legacies: The qualifications of legacy admits are generally in-line with the overall student profiles, despite their higher admissions rates. Note that the data might be aggregating across a variety of institutions, so this may not be as true of the hyper-competitive HYP+S.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I am not sure I agree with the elite school statement. A study of Harvard I read not long ago woukd seem to show that a significant number of admits have preexisting ties to alums and wealth.

Yes they do, as does my alma mater Dartmouth. True of all the Ivies.
My sense is that Harvard weighs wealth (massive gifts) more than does Dartmouth, but that could just be my Big Green bias.

However, the Ivies each turn away a surprisingly large # and % of legacy applicants each year. I'm not in any way refuting the core critique that legacy preference does advantage the predominant demographic of their parents, and for them their parents. However, folks are often surprised by how hard it remains for legacies to achieve admittance. Whole lot of alums are disappointed each year to learn that their kid is not going to be admitted despite being a solid citizen, solid student, multi-sport athlete (but not at recruitment level), etc. In a prior era that profile, these alums know, would have gained admittance. But not now. Now there needs to be at least some demonstrated significant passion and/or area of real excellence. Else, the next point, large scale gifts.

And, yes, there's also a very disturbing overlap with wealth, particularly huge wealth.

Having been involved in school economics a bit at both HS and college levels, it's indeed a factor in how schools try to achieve a balance that enables them to build the sorts of endowments that allow them to provide high levels of scholarship aid and to attract the best faculties. Money matters. I don't envy those trying to find that balance.

So, I totally support efforts to give preference to those from real socioeconomic and family disadvantage, the notion that 'grit' may well be more important in the long run than HS academic performance.

But the point is that there's much more complexity than perhaps meets the eye.

A legacy goalie was turned away from an Ivy and ended up at another school and is an AA. Grandfather a big benefactor and family is prominent...nationally. Grandfather still smarting about it...... But it has worked out for the player nevertheless.