Progressive Ideology

[DMac]

While I think Andy and his brother exaggerate a whole lot about the racism they experienced growing up, I sure don't see anything wrong with what he's saying here. Think this is another mountain being built from a mole hill.

“They used an expression that southern Italians were called, I believe they were saying southern Italians, Sicilians — I’m half Sicilian — were called, quote-unquote and pardon my language, but I’m just quoting the Times: ‘n----r wops.’ N-word wops, as a derogatory comment,” Cuomo told host Alan Chartock."
https://www.syracuse.com/news/2019/10/n ... rview.html

There was a heavy population of Italians where I grew up and they used wop, daygo, guinea constantly.
Was the norm and no one took offense. Of course that was before we built mountains from mole hills as
much as we do today and people weren't nearly as thin skinned as they are today. Seems to me as if people had a much better sense of humor and didn't make such a big deal out of everything. JMHO.

[Farfromgeneva]

Maybe no one but you cares because the context was a discussion of immigrants and the epithets used to demean them.

You are correct. Now define for all of us when it is proper to drop the N word in any sort of public conversation? It boggles my mind that you FLP toadies don't even have the integrity to enforce your own rules. Thank you coaster for giving the exact reply I knew that one you FLP folks would give. You did not disappoint... So your clarification here coaster is that we all have to understand the CONTEXT of how King Andy stuck his foot in his mouth. What more would you expect from a WOP? Not a damn bit of criticism from you about King Andy dropping an N bomb. I get the little BS game now... just precede it with " PARDON MY LANGUAGE" and all is forgiven... If you were true to your beliefs coaster you would be foaming at the mouth. Here is what we get from you... well you have to understand the context of what King Andy was saying... Freaking poster child for hypocrisy you are... Would your sentiments be the same if it was DJT uttering the same racial slur? Would you be telling all of us you have to understand the context? I highly doubt it but hey if you want to defend a politician making racial slur on the public airwaves... more power to you.

At a Jay Z concert? Dead Prez?

(Warning, while this song is actually really an interesting comment made by said Jay, it’s filled with the word-speaks to how even truly wealthy corporate black people feel, but filled with the word, encourage people with the stomach to view it-in private)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RM7lw0Ovzq0

[a fan]

There was a heavy population of Italians where I grew up and they used wop, daygo, guinea constantly.
Was the norm and no one took offense. Of course that was before we built mountains from mole hills as
much as we do today and people weren't nearly as thin skinned as they are today. Seems to me as if people had a much better sense of humor and didn't make such a big deal out of everything. JMHO.

You're forgetting that people lost their *hit in those days if they ran into anyone who was openly gay. Or a mixed marriage. Or said the Vietnam war was wrong. Or if you grew your hair long. Or listened to the "wrong" music. Or, or, or.....

Remember Rob and Laura Petrie had separate beds, because one bed was "offensive"?

Or if a woman tried to attend law school. Or the Naval Academy. Or if a woman tried to get a business loan "without their husband to sign on". And blacks, well, couldn't do much of anything because it was "offensive". Or, or, or.....

Jim Morrison jailed? Remember that? And what about all the stuff that they would't allow on TV or radio? Literal censorship?

People were offended by plenty of things back then. What people are getting worked up about is that "someone else" is getting offended this time, instead of them......

[Farfromgeneva]

Cuomo just stole that from Dennis Hoppers speech in true romance....

[a fan]

I've watched that scene dozens of times.

Hopper and Walken at the top of their game. What a scene!

[DMac]

There was a heavy population of Italians where I grew up and they used wop, daygo, guinea constantly.
Was the norm and no one took offense. Of course that was before we built mountains from mole hills as
much as we do today and people weren't nearly as thin skinned as they are today. Seems to me as if people had a much better sense of humor and didn't make such a big deal out of everything. JMHO.

You're forgetting that people lost their *hit in those days if they ran into anyone who was openly gay. Or a mixed marriage. Or said the Vietnam war was wrong. Or if you grew your hair long. Or listened to the "wrong" music. Or, or, or.....
Not forgetting about any of that but you're forgetting that there was a good percent of the population who didn't lose their *hit if/when they ran into an openly gay person, didn't even draw a phart. Liberace was on the Ed Sullivan show, Paul Lynde on Hollywood Squares. Sure, there was an unaccepting percent of the population too, not so unlike today.
I didn't say times were perfect. Yes, yes, yes, on the long hairs, hawks and doves. Lot of violence back then and much of it for the right reasons, and women were even smoking Virginia Slims.


Remember Rob and Laura Petrie had separate beds, because one bed was "offensive"?
I'm not so sure I'd use the word offensive there, risque, I think, would more accurately describe it. There was no shortage of talk around the water cooler (the real one way back when people talked and laughed eyeball to eyeball around it) about how nice Laura's a*s*s looked the day after she came out in those form fitting peddle pushers though. TV was pretty much in it's infancy back then, guess they hadn't quite figured out how to handle that stuff yet. Now you can watch a couple dancing while waiting for the Viagara to kick in on a commercial. We're good now.

Or if a woman tried to attend law school. Or the Naval Academy. Or if a woman tried to get a business loan "without their husband to sign on". And blacks, well, couldn't do much of anything because it was "offensive". Or, or, or.....
I didn't forget any of this either. Women got the short end of the stick from pretty much forever, we can thank pretty much all generations and races for that, I think.
"couldn't do much of anything", while I understand your point, is more than just a bit of an exagerration though.

Jim Morrison jailed? Remember that? And what about all the stuff that they would't allow on TV or radio? Literal censorship?
Yup, remember but not much about why.
Again, all this stuff was still pretty much in it's infancy. Now teens can pull up porn on their phones, we're much improved along those lines.


People were offended by plenty of things back then. What people are getting worked up about is that "someone else" is getting offended this time, instead of them......
Nah, not agreeing with that "someone else" part. Sure, people were offended back then too, but that doesn't mean they were as thin skinned as people seem to be these days. Social media seems to have given everyone a reason to be offended by something and from there mountains are made from mole hills.

[holmes435]

Yeah, Italians weren't considered "White" and those terms were pretty dang offensive for a long time and they started fights and worse. They were heavily discriminated against heavily. And the Irish, and Polish, others. Eventually they assimilated and united against newer immigrants.

Enough people lost their sh*t that they murdered gay people, black people, the Irish, trans people, Italians and others regularly for the past few hundred years. True Blue Americans, Bowery Boys, Dead Rabbits, "Nativists" and more.

We gloss over so much nowadays, it wasn't some rosy past we lived in fifty years ago where no one got offended.

[DMac]

Yeah, Italians weren't considered "White" and those terms were pretty dang offensive for a long time and they started fights and worse. They were heavily discriminated against heavily. And the Irish, and Polish, others. Eventually they assimilated and united against newer immigrants.

Enough people lost their sh*t that they murdered gay people, black people, the Irish, trans people, Italians and others regularly for the past few hundred years. True Blue Americans, Bowery Boys, Dead Rabbits, "Nativists" and more.

We gloss over so much nowadays, it wasn't some rosy past we lived in fifty years ago where no one got offended.

Geezuz H, you guys are just absolutely brutal and putting that mountain out of a mole hill thing on full display. I lived in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s. I lived in the far north and far south, the east coast and the west coast, Japan and Germany too. You guys think I've had my eyes closed the whole time?
Reading your stuff you'd think everyone was afraid to go outside and mingle with others fer krissakes.
"it wasn't some rosy past we lived in fifty years ago where no one got offended." I never said that, I simply said people weren't as thin skinned as they are today and I maintain that. Before you guys go nuts again, that doesn't as much as insinuate that it was a perfect world where women were treated fairly, no gay person ever got assaulted, no black person was ever treated unfairly, and that no unicorns or rabbits ever died.
Holy schidt!!!!!

[a fan]

Nah, not agreeing with that "someone else" part. Sure, people were offended back then too, but that doesn't mean they were as thin skinned as people seem to be these days. Social media seems to have given everyone a reason to be offended by something and from there mountains are made from mole hills.

I think it's more a case of: you can hear everyone's complaints instantly in real time in 2019.

So yep, every little hiccup or complaint has a megaphone that can instantly reach millions of people.

It's the medium that's changed, not the message.


All you have to do is picture what would happen if you gave someone in 1950's flyover America that social media power for complaining.

I just laugh at the thought of that. They'd do 1,000 times more complaining than they do today.

And think about giving twitter to the segregated south. You want think skinned complaining?? That would take the cake!

[DMac]

Think Seinfeld, won't do college stages anymore. Because?

Yes, social media doesn't only come with a megaphone, it comes with memes, likes, sharing, fuel, fire, and infectious anger too.

Twitter in the segregated south is pretty much the definition of anachronism.....no, I can't imagine.
Too bad selfies weren't a thing when I lived in Georgia, coulda taken one of myself in front of the whites only drinkin' fountain (no joke...crazy).

[a fan]

Think Seinfeld, won't do college stages anymore. Because?

Because twitter/instagram broadcasts that outrage if he offends.....

Again, flip side of this was Lenny Bruce was actually thrown in jail. Four times! Talk about thin skinned! THAT is the very definition of being overly sensitive.

I most certain agree that both those who find Seinfeld offensive, and who found Lenny Bruce are fruit from the same tree!

And I am most certainly just as annoyed as you are at these people, clutching at their pearls. No question there.

[DocBarrister]

While I think Andy and his brother exaggerate a whole lot about the racism they experienced growing up, I sure don't see anything wrong with what he's saying here. Think this is another mountain being built from a mole hill.

“They used an expression that southern Italians were called, I believe they were saying southern Italians, Sicilians — I’m half Sicilian — were called, quote-unquote and pardon my language, but I’m just quoting the Times: ‘n----r wops.’ N-word wops, as a derogatory comment,” Cuomo told host Alan Chartock."
https://www.syracuse.com/news/2019/10/n ... rview.html

There was a heavy population of Italians where I grew up and they used wop, daygo, guinea constantly.
Was the norm and no one took offense. Of course that was before we built mountains from mole hills as
much as we do today and people weren't nearly as thin skinned as they are today. Seems to me as if people had a much better sense of humor and didn't make such a big deal out of everything. JMHO.

His use of the N-word was highly inappropriate. If you don’t understand that, then you’re still living in the 1950s (or modern day Alabama).

DocBarrister

[Farfromgeneva]

Long live the Dead Rabbits!

And Lenny Bruce!

[MDlaxfan76]

Yeah, Italians weren't considered "White" and those terms were pretty dang offensive for a long time and they started fights and worse. They were heavily discriminated against heavily. And the Irish, and Polish, others. Eventually they assimilated and united against newer immigrants.

Enough people lost their sh*t that they murdered gay people, black people, the Irish, trans people, Italians and others regularly for the past few hundred years. True Blue Americans, Bowery Boys, Dead Rabbits, "Nativists" and more.

We gloss over so much nowadays, it wasn't some rosy past we lived in fifty years ago where no one got offended.

Geezuz H, you guys are just absolutely brutal and putting that mountain out of a mole hill thing on full display. I lived in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s. I lived in the far north and far south, the east coast and the west coast, Japan and Germany too. You guys think I've had my eyes closed the whole time?
Reading your stuff you'd think everyone was afraid to go outside and mingle with others fer krissakes.
"it wasn't some rosy past we lived in fifty years ago where no one got offended." I never said that, I simply said people weren't as thin skinned as they are today and I maintain that. Before you guys go nuts again, that doesn't as much as insinuate that it was a perfect world where women were treated fairly, no gay person ever got assaulted, no black person was ever treated unfairly, and that no unicorns or rabbits ever died.
Holy schidt!!!!!

Let me suggest a slightly different take on "thin-skinned" that may help you feel a bit better about it.

As others have pointed out, and you have acknowledged, folks who were 'different' faced serious consequences, including beatings, death, job discrimination, housing discrimination...ETC. The choice to be "thin-skinned" could literally get you killed. Or lose your job. If you dared speak up, it put a spotlight on you for those most unsympathetic to your 'difference', your objection to insult, your objection to discrimination.

And much of this was government sanctioned. Even the lynchings.

Folks didn't really have a choice to be "thin-skinned", to speak up.

Given my sense of your heart, I'm sure you will agree that it is truly wonderful that folks can now speak up with far, far less likely negative ramifications.

Perhaps it's better to celebrate that reality instead of being resentful that we need to therefore be a little more careful, more nuanced, in our language ourselves and how we listen to others?

BTW, I have no opinion on whatever Cuomo said...haven't followed it yet.

[foreverlax]

Maybe no one but you cares because the context was a discussion of immigrants and the epithets used to demean them.

You are correct. Now define for all of us when it is proper to drop the N word in any sort of public conversation? It boggles my mind that you FLP toadies don't even have the integrity to enforce your own rules. Thank you coaster for giving the exact reply I knew that one you FLP folks would give. You did not disappoint... It is like having a battle of wits with a group of unarmed opponents. So your clarification here coaster is that we all have to understand the CONTEXT of how King Andy stuck his foot in his mouth. What more would you expect from a WOP? Not a damn bit of criticism from you about King Andy dropping an N bomb. I get the little BS game now... just precede it with " PARDON MY LANGUAGE" and all is forgiven... If you were true to your beliefs coaster you would be foaming at the mouth. Here is what we get from you... well you have to understand the context of what King Andy was saying... Freaking poster child for hypocrisy you are...

"hook, line, & sinker"

Yes he did.

[MDlaxfan76]

Yeah, Italians weren't considered "White" and those terms were pretty dang offensive for a long time and they started fights and worse. They were heavily discriminated against heavily. And the Irish, and Polish, others. Eventually they assimilated and united against newer immigrants.

Enough people lost their sh*t that they murdered gay people, black people, the Irish, trans people, Italians and others regularly for the past few hundred years. True Blue Americans, Bowery Boys, Dead Rabbits, "Nativists" and more.

We gloss over so much nowadays, it wasn't some rosy past we lived in fifty years ago where no one got offended.

Geezuz H, you guys are just absolutely brutal and putting that mountain out of a mole hill thing on full display. I lived in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s. I lived in the far north and far south, the east coast and the west coast, Japan and Germany too. You guys think I've had my eyes closed the whole time?
Reading your stuff you'd think everyone was afraid to go outside and mingle with others fer krissakes.
"it wasn't some rosy past we lived in fifty years ago where no one got offended." I never said that, I simply said people weren't as thin skinned as they are today and I maintain that. Before you guys go nuts again, that doesn't as much as insinuate that it was a perfect world where women were treated fairly, no gay person ever got assaulted, no black person was ever treated unfairly, and that no unicorns or rabbits ever died.
Holy schidt!!!!!

Let me suggest a slightly different take on "thin-skinned" that may help you feel a bit better about it.

As others have pointed out, and you have acknowledged, folks who were 'different' faced serious consequences, including beatings, death, job discrimination, housing discrimination...ETC. The choice to be "thin-skinned" could literally get you killed. Or lose your job. If you dared speak up, it put a spotlight on you for those most unsympathetic to your 'difference', your objection to insult, your objection to discrimination.

And much of this was government sanctioned. Even the lynchings.

Folks didn't really have a choice to be "thin-skinned", to speak up.

Given my sense of your heart, I'm sure you will agree that it is truly wonderful that folks can now speak up with far, far less likely negative ramifications.

Perhaps it's better to celebrate that reality instead of being resentful that we need to therefore be a little more careful, more nuanced, in our language ourselves and how we listen to others?

BTW, I have no opinion on whatever Cuomo said...haven't followed it yet.

ok, I'm caught up: https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4658 ... -interview

DMac is correct, this is a nonsensical argument.
It's absolutely said appropriately, in context, and with full sensitivity to the power of that word.

cradle, you are off your rocker if you think that all usages of this word are equivalent, much less that folks on here are reacting to Cuomo's use differently just because he's a Dem.

If you are truly asking:
Yes, context matters, intent matters. It's the entire point.

Tech, not sure what your comment meant, but I hope you recognize the above rather than doubling down.

cradle, I hope you take a fresh look.
You can dislike, or worse, Andrew Cuomo for all sorts of stuff, but this particular issue is just not an argument where you're correct.

[Farfromgeneva]

Just crybaby stuff, I’m at least partially w DMac on this.

It’s as simple as what I try to teach my 5 & 7yr old kids (daughter & son respectively, aside from that we will always love and support them implicitly and explicitly):

You can only control your behavior and responses, not anyone else.

It really is that simple.

[tech37]

Tech, not sure what your comment meant, but I hope you recognize the above rather than doubling down.

Do I care about this?...not in the least. I was simply tweaking seacoaster by using one of his favorite snarky sayings, thus the quotes.

[MDlaxfan76]

Tech, not sure what your comment meant, but I hope you recognize the above rather than doubling down.

Do I care about this?...not in the least. I was simply tweaking seacoaster by using one of his favorite snarky sayings, thus the quotes.

so, were you saying that cradle bit "hook, line and sinker" or seacoaster?
If you meant cradle, yeah, he bit down hard.

we're offering 'catch and release' for him, hope he'll take it.

On "Do I care about this?", if you mean you don't think Cuomo's comment is anything to get twisted up about, me too.

[seacoaster]

Predictable silly rant followed by a retort stolen from other people. Plus ca change....

Predictable mindless retort from an FLP disciple when they have no rational response. It was actually a very simple question coaster. When can you say the N word in public conversation? Is the answer never or is it okay when uttered in the proper context? Put on yer big boy pants and give us an answer. Pardon my language... spoken in proper context … but...

Sorry I missed this one. And it looks like others caught up with the thread and answered pretty effectively for me (DMac; MDLaxfan; maybe others).

You have a stereotyped notion of how "FLPs" respond or have to respond to every utterance in the language and in the media. I get that this is part of your need to be other than the Right or the Left, to provide maximum latitude to complain about them both. But most of us occupy greyer areas than you want to admit exist. Cuomo used an epithet that would have resulted in a soapy mouth if my mother or father heard it from me, and one that would have resulted in big trouble for my kids if I heard or hear it from them. But Cuomo used it in a way that wasn't intended as a slur. He likely, in retrospect, could have done a better and more courteous job of it. You wanted to make something out of the use of the word -- standing alone, without context or explanation -- for your own purpose and so you could castigate "FLPs" and "jackwagons" in accordance with your own small way of looking at the world. I get it.