old salt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:47 am
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:39 am
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:58 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:44 pm
Trump can apply pressure to Erdogan, and he's not doing that.
Trump just got blindsided by Erdogan.
Our military, diplomats & IC thought we had an agreement with the Turks that was working.
We still don't know what the Turks will do & if the SDF will resist.
Trump has limited options & leverage over Erdogan.
We need Turkey as an ally more than they need us.
It's their southern border, not ours.
That is a truly ridiculous assertion. Your efforts to defend Trump have really become repugnant.
I’m no fan of US troops in Syria, but we are there and the United States made promises to the Syrian Kurdish militias. They were on the frontlines against ISIS in Syria and hold over 10,000 ISIS fighters in camps that they control (who will escape if Erdogan, who is thought to have provided illicit support to ISIS, massacres the Kurds). Many thousands of Kurds died fighting ISIS at the insistence of the United States.
And now we’re simply going to abandon them and let Erdogan slaughter them. All because Trump impulsively decided to leave without performing any of the necessary diplomatic and military groundwork to depart in an organized manner.
Should note that this move serves Erdogan (despite Trump’s “threat” against Turkey after Republican members of Congress complained). By the way, Trump has his name on two towers in Istanbul, which have “earned” Trump millions.
It also serves Putin and his ally, Iran. Just another indication that Trump is an agent of Russia, which has largely financed the Trump Organization.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/07/middle ... 9999999999
America’s allies all over the world are noting Trump’s betrayal of the Syrian Kurds. Who’s going to trust us now after Trump gave up the Kurds for slaughter?
DocBarrister
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. ...you're a few hours behind the news cycle Doc. Read the reporting in POLITICO about what really transpired.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/0 ... ers-037958
This wasn't Trump's initiative. He was prepared to continue the joint patrols.
Erdogan turned over the table.
Regarding allies -- Turkey is our longstanding NATO ally, by treaty. The Syrian SDF/YPG Kurds are our proxy allies in the fight against IS. We've never encouraged the Kurds to seek independence. To the contrary, we've tried to get them to stop attacking Turkey & agitating for an independent Kurdistan (which would annex a big chunk of Turkey). We used to designate the PKK as terrorists because of their terrorist attacks on our NATO ally Turkey. You got that yet ?
We haven't pulled our forces from Syria. They remain in NE Syria. We withdrew 50 Army Rangers who were hostages on trip wire joint patrol duty in a 20 mi wide border safe zone. Turkey is now on the hook for fighting ISIS, holding captive thousands of IS fighters & their families, & resettling over 2 million Syrian refugees now in Turkey.
This will give our NATO ally Turkey military control of a buffer zone along the entire length of Syria's N border & block that route between Iran & Lebanon. This is hardly in Russia's or Iran's interest. The Turks will probably try to resettle Syrian Arab refugees in the Arab portions of the border zone, but they will be challenged to occupy the entire border safe zone, let alone retake major portions of NE Syria, including the urban centers listed in your CNN scary story piece.
The Syrian Kurds lived peacefully for decades in relative autonomy in NE Syria under Assad's regime.
That ended when IS invaded & Syria came apart in civil war. The Syrian Kurds now need to renew their accommodation with Assad's Syrian govt in distant Damascus. They are in a relatively strong position to do just that & have likely been negotiating to do so.
Turkey is vital as an ally if NATO is to endure. Our bases at Incirlik (& elsewhere in Turkey) are critical so long as we maintain a presence in the E Med & ME. The Kurds are pragmatic survivors. They'll get back in bed with Assad.
This is really funny Doc. You & Lindsey Graham make for strange bedfellows.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syri ... SKBN1WM1IF
For the SDF alliance, in which the Syrian Kurdish YPG militia is the dominant force, much will depend on whether the United States continues to keep forces in other parts of the northeast and east. A full U.S. withdrawal would expose the area to the risk of more Turkish advances, an Islamic State revival, or attempts by Iranian- and Russian-backed government forces to gain ground.
Confronted by the prospect of U.S. withdrawal last year, the Kurds beat a path to Damascus for talks over allowing the Syrian government and its ally Russia to deploy at the border.
The talks made no progress, but such negotiations could be an option again in the event of a wider U.S. withdrawal.
While the territory in question is already outside Syrian government control, a Turkish incursion would mean the area switching from a non-hostile force - the SDF - to Turkey and rebels that have sought to topple Assad.
Damascus has long viewed Turkey as an occupying power with designs on northern Syria. It has also at times suggested a willingness to strike a deal with the Kurds, though their last negotiations got nowhere.
Please, you really think Erdogan told Trump he is moving forward with an incursion and then Trump simply folded and decided to withdraw?
First, if that is the case, Trump has no business being Commander in Chief. If he folds that easily, then what ally would ever trust him?
Turkey wouldn’t move forward with an incursion that could jeopardize U.S. troops unless Trump gave his consent to do so.
As the article states, Trump went Rogue. His decision to withdraw US troops benefits both Russia and Turkey. Putin will be pleased to see US forces leave Syria. Turkey gets their shot at wiping out Kurds.
Oh ... and this helps Russia and Turkey build their burgeoning alliance.
Russia is completing the TurkStream pipeline to Turkey, which will be a major energy source for Turkey.
https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/mark ... -by-dec-31
In addition, Turkey basically traded the US F-35 program for Russian missile systems (the S400 and S500).
https://m.dw.com/en/us-removes-turkey-f ... a-49625337
You’re the one behind on the news. Russia is steadily drawing a NATO ally, Turkey, into its orbit. What better way to cement that relationship than by working together in Syria? And who just facilitated an even closer relationship between Russia and Turkey ... yes, Donald Trump.
You think that’s just a coincidence?
The Trump Organization is financially dependent on laundered Russian money, and Trump has significant commercial interests in Turkey. Enough to explain why Trump went Rogue against the Pentagon and his national security advisers? You bet.
Trump sold out US national security and US allies to bolster his personal financial interests. That’s been a consistent pattern throughout his presidency.
DocBarrister