JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

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ggait
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by ggait »

Easily impeachable ? Why is Nancy so hesitant to proceed ?
Because you need to get your facts and case 100% nailed down. As literally any/every lawyer/prosecutor/professional would do. Obviously. Duh.

The WB complaint is mostly hearsay. Even though the court rules of evidence don't apply to impeachment, you'd of course want to get the best, most corroborated set of facts collected. So if the WB says "A told me he saw X do Y", every professional would go to A directly. If A tells you "I saw X do Y with my own eyes" that's better, more corroborated evidence.

For example, as pertains to the phone call itself, the WB's hearsay has already been largely corroborated. Because the WH transcript was produced by people who actually heard the phone call. While the transcript itself is also not direct evidence, FYI it likely would be admissible in a court pursuant to one or more exceptions to the hearsay rule (see below).

But even better than the transcript would be direct testimony from the people who were on the call.

The process of nailing this narrow set of facts down should not take very long. Unless...the WH goes back into "everything isexecutive priveleged" mode. My guess is that is what is going to happen next.



(5) Recorded Recollection. A record that:

(A) is on a matter the witness once knew about but now cannot recall well enough to testify fully and accurately;

(B) was made or adopted by the witness when the matter was fresh in the witness’s memory; and

(C) accurately reflects the witness’s knowledge.

If admitted, the record may be read into evidence but may be received as an exhibit only if offered by an adverse party.

(6) Records of a Regularly Conducted Activity. A record of an act, event, condition, opinion, or diagnosis if:

(A) the record was made at or near the time by — or from information transmitted by — someone with knowledge;

(B) the record was kept in the course of a regularly conducted activity of a business, organization, occupation, or calling, whether or not for profit;

(C) making the record was a regular practice of that activity;

(D) all these conditions are shown by the testimony of the custodian or another qualified witness, or by a certification that complies with Rule 902(11) or (12) or with a statute permitting certification; and

(E) the opponent does not show that the source of information or the method or circumstances of preparation indicate a lack of trustworthiness.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

“You called them proxies?” That thing on the end is a question mark.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
a fan
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:50 pm You scoff at the notion of a Deep State, but you're seeing it in action. Trump is a threat to their grip on power & they're trying to take him out, & they may succeed. I warned you that the war within the IC would intensify when Trump began breaking their rice bowls.
:lol: Defense spending is up how much? Broken rice bowls, my *ss. If this nonsense was remotely true, the IC would have eaten both Congress and Obama alive over the sequester....THAT broke rice bowls. So where was your Deep State then? Take your time answering.

I scoff at what is IMPLIED by the Deep State. Namely, that you and FoxNation and Rush (yep, you're all lumped in with this cr*p) think that the Deep State is breaking laws left and right, and are framing the President with fabricated evidence.

So yep, if you want to call out out Federal workers for calling Trump out for his corruption and BS, yep.

And if that's your idea of a Deep State? Boy, am I glad they are there looking out for our country-----rather than hanging on the blind loyalty that you think outweighs right and wrong.

And your position is that much more bizarre, given the fact that you KNOW the man you are asking our people to follow is unfit for office. In what world does it make sense to blindly follow a man like that?
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

a fan wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:50 pm You scoff at the notion of a Deep State, but you're seeing it in action. Trump is a threat to their grip on power & they're trying to take him out, & they may succeed. I warned you that the war within the IC would intensify when Trump began breaking their rice bowls.
:lol: Defense spending is up how much? Broken rice bowls, my *ss. If this nonsense was remotely true, the IC would have eaten both Congress and Obama alive over the sequester....THAT broke rice bowls. So where was your Deep State then? Take your time answering.

I scoff at what is IMPLIED by the Deep State. Namely, that you and FoxNation and Rush (yep, you're all lumped in with this cr*p) think that the Deep State is breaking laws left and right, and are framing the President with fabricated evidence.

So yep, if you want to call out out Federal workers for calling Trump out for his corruption and BS, yep.

And if that's your idea of a Deep State? Boy, am I glad they are there looking out for our country-----rather than hanging on the blind loyalty that you think outweighs right and wrong.

And your position is that much more bizarre, given the fact that you KNOW the man you are asking our people to follow is unfit for office. In what world does it make sense to blindly follow a man like that?
Bizzaro Washington
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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dislaxxic
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by dislaxxic »

And thus we arrive and the REAL reason Turkey Wattle and the rest of the GOP has been so intent on packing the courts, including the SCOTUS, with rightwing loons.

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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old salt
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

ggait wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:26 pm
Easily impeachable ? Why is Nancy so hesitant to proceed ?
Because you need to get your facts and case 100% nailed down. As literally any/every lawyer/prosecutor/professional would do. Obviously. Duh.

The WB complaint is mostly hearsay. Even though the court rules of evidence don't apply to impeachment, you'd of course want to get the best, most corroborated set of facts collected. So if the WB says "A told me he saw X do Y", every professional would go to A directly. If A tells you "I saw X do Y with my own eyes" that's better, more corroborated evidence.

For example, as pertains to the phone call itself, the WB's hearsay has already been largely corroborated. Because the WH transcript was produced by people who actually heard the phone call. While the transcript itself is also not direct evidence, FYI it likely would be admissible in a court pursuant to one or more exceptions to the hearsay rule (see below).

But even better than the transcript would be direct testimony from the people who were on the call.

The process of nailing this narrow set of facts down should not take very long. Unless...the WH goes back into "everything isexecutive priveleged" mode. My guess is that is what is going to happen next.



(5) Recorded Recollection. A record that:

(A) is on a matter the witness once knew about but now cannot recall well enough to testify fully and accurately;

(B) was made or adopted by the witness when the matter was fresh in the witness’s memory; and

(C) accurately reflects the witness’s knowledge.

If admitted, the record may be read into evidence but may be received as an exhibit only if offered by an adverse party.

(6) Records of a Regularly Conducted Activity. A record of an act, event, condition, opinion, or diagnosis if:

(A) the record was made at or near the time by — or from information transmitted by — someone with knowledge;

(B) the record was kept in the course of a regularly conducted activity of a business, organization, occupation, or calling, whether or not for profit;

(C) making the record was a regular practice of that activity;

(D) all these conditions are shown by the testimony of the custodian or another qualified witness, or by a certification that complies with Rule 902(11) or (12) or with a statute permitting certification; and

(E) the opponent does not show that the source of information or the method or circumstances of preparation indicate a lack of trustworthiness.
So where's the Impeachment Resolution, so they can get the facts ?
They're going to have to contest the assertions of Exec priv.
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old salt
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:03 pm “You called them proxies?” That thing on the end is a question mark.
As usual, your trolling is indecipherable harassment.
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old salt
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:50 pm You scoff at the notion of a Deep State, but you're seeing it in action. Trump is a threat to their grip on power & they're trying to take him out, & they may succeed. I warned you that the war within the IC would intensify when Trump began breaking their rice bowls.
:lol: Defense spending is up how much? Broken rice bowls, my *ss. If this nonsense was remotely true, the IC would have eaten both Congress and Obama alive over the sequester....THAT broke rice bowls. So where was your Deep State then? Take your time answering.

I scoff at what is IMPLIED by the Deep State. Namely, that you and FoxNation and Rush (yep, you're all lumped in with this cr*p) think that the Deep State is breaking laws left and right, and are framing the President with fabricated evidence.

So yep, if you want to call out out Federal workers for calling Trump out for his corruption and BS, yep.

And if that's your idea of a Deep State? Boy, am I glad they are there looking out for our country-----rather than hanging on the blind loyalty that you think outweighs right and wrong.

And your position is that much more bizarre, given the fact that you KNOW the man you are asking our people to follow is unfit for office. In what world does it make sense to blindly follow a man like that?
Pay attention. IC not DoD. How many times do I have to say IC ?
The DoD's not killing Trump with leaks.
Respect your oath. If you can't work for Trump. Go home.
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old salt
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:06 pm
a fan wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:50 pm You scoff at the notion of a Deep State, but you're seeing it in action. Trump is a threat to their grip on power & they're trying to take him out, & they may succeed. I warned you that the war within the IC would intensify when Trump began breaking their rice bowls.
:lol: Defense spending is up how much? Broken rice bowls, my *ss. If this nonsense was remotely true, the IC would have eaten both Congress and Obama alive over the sequester....THAT broke rice bowls. So where was your Deep State then? Take your time answering.

I scoff at what is IMPLIED by the Deep State. Namely, that you and FoxNation and Rush (yep, you're all lumped in with this cr*p) think that the Deep State is breaking laws left and right, and are framing the President with fabricated evidence.

So yep, if you want to call out out Federal workers for calling Trump out for his corruption and BS, yep.

And if that's your idea of a Deep State? Boy, am I glad they are there looking out for our country-----rather than hanging on the blind loyalty that you think outweighs right and wrong.

And your position is that much more bizarre, given the fact that you KNOW the man you are asking our people to follow is unfit for office. In what world does it make sense to blindly follow a man like that?
Bizzaro Washington
Teump crawled out of NY, where he stole TLD's lunch money, boo hoo.
Trinity
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Trinity »

Pompeo documents re:Ukraine subpoenaed.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:03 pm “You called them proxies?” That thing on the end is a question mark.
As usual, your trolling is indecipherable harassment.
I see are not going to answer a direct question. Thanks....nice truncation of the thread. Deceptive.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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old salt
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:18 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:03 pm “You called them proxies?” That thing on the end is a question mark.
As usual, your trolling is indecipherable harassment.
I see are not going to answer a direct question. Thanks....nice truncation of the thread. Deceptive.
Restate your direct question in a complete sentence.
seacoaster
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by seacoaster »

"Respect your oath. If you can't work for Trump. Go home."

You mean the oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States? Your version is Fuhrerprinzip, where the words of the leader are given not merely the force of law, but the power of the supreme law. I take the oath; I don't have to quit my job because my boss -- how ever properly or duly elected he may have been -- violates the public trust and his oath of office.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:20 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:18 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:03 pm “You called them proxies?” That thing on the end is a question mark.
As usual, your trolling is indecipherable harassment.
I see are not going to answer a direct question. Thanks....nice truncation of the thread. Deceptive.
Restate your direct question in a complete sentence.
Sure thing. You made a reference to Democrat’s and their “MSM Proxies”. I mentioned that I have not noticed you ever making a reference to “Republicans and their MSM proxies”. Your reply was that you often cite Wash Examiner and NR. My question was this. Have you referred to those outlets as Republican proxies. You didn’t answer. You truncated the exchange. It wasn’t an accident.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
a fan
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:14 pm
a fan wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:50 pm You scoff at the notion of a Deep State, but you're seeing it in action. Trump is a threat to their grip on power & they're trying to take him out, & they may succeed. I warned you that the war within the IC would intensify when Trump began breaking their rice bowls.
:lol: Defense spending is up how much? Broken rice bowls, my *ss. If this nonsense was remotely true, the IC would have eaten both Congress and Obama alive over the sequester....THAT broke rice bowls. So where was your Deep State then? Take your time answering.

I scoff at what is IMPLIED by the Deep State. Namely, that you and FoxNation and Rush (yep, you're all lumped in with this cr*p) think that the Deep State is breaking laws left and right, and are framing the President with fabricated evidence.

So yep, if you want to call out out Federal workers for calling Trump out for his corruption and BS, yep.

And if that's your idea of a Deep State? Boy, am I glad they are there looking out for our country-----rather than hanging on the blind loyalty that you think outweighs right and wrong.

And your position is that much more bizarre, given the fact that you KNOW the man you are asking our people to follow is unfit for office. In what world does it make sense to blindly follow a man like that?
Pay attention. IC not DoD. How many times do I have to say IC ?
Attack a detail so you can ignore the fact that the rest of my post is correct. Nice job. What's next? Correcting my spelling?
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old salt
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:32 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:20 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:18 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:03 pm “You called them proxies?” That thing on the end is a question mark.
As usual, your trolling is indecipherable harassment.
I see are not going to answer a direct question. Thanks....nice truncation of the thread. Deceptive.
Restate your direct question in a complete sentence.
Sure thing. You made a reference to Democrat’s and their “MSM Proxies”. I mentioned that I have not noticed you ever making a reference to “Republicans and their MSM proxies”. Your reply was that you often cite Wash Examiner and NR. My question was this. Have you referred to those outlets as Republican proxies. You didn’t answer. You truncated the exchange. It wasn’t an accident.
I answered by listing a couple Republican proxies which I cite routinely.
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old salt
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:46 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:14 pm
a fan wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:50 pm You scoff at the notion of a Deep State, but you're seeing it in action. Trump is a threat to their grip on power & they're trying to take him out, & they may succeed. I warned you that the war within the IC would intensify when Trump began breaking their rice bowls.
:lol: Defense spending is up how much? Broken rice bowls, my *ss. If this nonsense was remotely true, the IC would have eaten both Congress and Obama alive over the sequester....THAT broke rice bowls. So where was your Deep State then? Take your time answering.

I scoff at what is IMPLIED by the Deep State. Namely, that you and FoxNation and Rush (yep, you're all lumped in with this cr*p) think that the Deep State is breaking laws left and right, and are framing the President with fabricated evidence.

So yep, if you want to call out out Federal workers for calling Trump out for his corruption and BS, yep.

And if that's your idea of a Deep State? Boy, am I glad they are there looking out for our country-----rather than hanging on the blind loyalty that you think outweighs right and wrong.

And your position is that much more bizarre, given the fact that you KNOW the man you are asking our people to follow is unfit for office. In what world does it make sense to blindly follow a man like that?
Pay attention. IC not DoD. How many times do I have to say IC ?
Attack a detail so you can ignore the fact that the rest of my post is correct. Nice job. What's next? Correcting my spelling?
The rest of your post is just BS heckling, nor worthy of reply.
Every leak of classified matl is a felony, but I've told you that many times before & you just deflect or claim it's "Trump's people".
Last edited by old salt on Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:47 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:32 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:20 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:18 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:03 pm “You called them proxies?” That thing on the end is a question mark.
As usual, your trolling is indecipherable harassment.
I see are not going to answer a direct question. Thanks....nice truncation of the thread. Deceptive.
Restate your direct question in a complete sentence.
Sure thing. You made a reference to Democrat’s and their “MSM Proxies”. I mentioned that I have not noticed you ever making a reference to “Republicans and their MSM proxies”. Your reply was that you often cite Wash Examiner and NR. My question was this. Have you referred to those outlets as Republican proxies. You didn’t answer. You truncated the exchange. It wasn’t an accident.
I answered by listing a couple Republican proxies which I cite routinely.
You did not make the reference to them being proxies before. Thanks for answering.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
a fan
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:48 pm The rest of your post is just BS heckling
Ok.
old salt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:48 pm Every leak of classified matl is a felony, but I've told you that many times before & you just deflect or claim it's "Trump's people".
Nope. Never once. What I told you----dozens of times-----is that I agree with you that illegal leaks are bad. And if caught, they should be prosecuted. Still believe that.

But what I also told you was, there needs to be a legal path for folks to call shenanigans, maintain that classified intel, and maintain the integrity of our Federal government.

And that path was broken by the DNI. And now our WB program is in shambles. Which means more leaking that neither you nor I want.

And instead of being mad about the breaking of our WB act.....you're lashing out at me , the Times, the libs, and everyone else you think you can blame.

It's absurd.


As for Trump's people.. I'm just telling you where the leaking is coming from. Because you're so far down the Republican rabbit hole, you think it's impossible for anyone with an R by their name can leak intel.
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youthathletics
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by youthathletics »

Interesting article on how the WB form has gone through some revisions, just after the Russian Collusion story blew away in the wind. This more the onion gets peeled back, this is clearly shaping up to be yet another hit job. Schiff knew about this last month and kept quiet. Was he waiting for the WB form to change?

And we can thank Bill Clinton for this beautiful Treaty with Ukraine on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters that gives Trump or any US POTUS the green light to communicate with Ukraine on matters of criminal investigation.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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