All Things Environment

[a fan]

- neither expert in the science nor the potential social or economic potential ramifications that may be caused by GW/CC.

You understand that you're describing every single poster here, right? And yes, that includes me.

And, of course about 99.9% of the people who discuss global warming. Her opinion is no less valid than the rest of us in that 99.9%


The one thing she has going for her argument is her age. She's more likely to have to deal with the consequences of global warming than the rest of us geezers.

[CU88]

r's are dumber than a box of rocks!

Trump officials threaten to withhold highway funds from California for its ‘chronic air quality problems’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate- ... -problems/

This after trying to VOID the CA plan with Automakers to set higher pollution controls for new cars!

r's just don't understand facts...

[cradleandshoot]

- neither expert in the science nor the potential social or economic potential ramifications that may be caused by GW/CC.

You understand that you're describing every single poster here, right? And yes, that includes me.

And, of course about 99.9% of the people who discuss global warming. Her opinion is no less valid than the rest of us in that 99.9%


The one thing she has going for her argument is her age. She's more likely to have to deal with the consequences of global warming than the rest of us geezers.

What are those consequences? The list of possibilities is stretching to infinity and beyond. If you can imagine it... you can blame it on CC/GW.

[a fan]

I wrote "likely", my friend. Simply pointing out that it's easy for you and I to talk about this stuff, when it's more likely a 16 year old will deal with consequences if we're wrong, and, for example, the problem is worse that we believe.

If I'm 16, I understand the anger she holds towards us geezers.

[frmanfan]

My question is this: all these kids are going to skip school every Friday until climate change is stopped. (Actually heard a young girl stating pretty much that this is the plan.) So the question, how will they know when enough has been done and they can go back to school? What are the markers? Are are we just going to have four day school (and work) weeks forever?

[cradleandshoot]

I wrote "likely", my friend. Simply pointing out that it's easy for you and I to talk about this stuff, when it's more likely a 16 year old will deal with consequences if we're wrong, and, for example, the problem is worse that we believe.

If I'm 16, I understand the anger she holds towards us geezers.

I can't relate to what you are saying here a Fan. Maybe that is because I am an old geezer now. When I was 16 I was fortunate that had parents that worked like dogs to take care of their kids. Dad worked all day while mom took care of the house and then worked until 11:30 at night. I was lucky enough to often stay up late enough to ride with my dad to pick her up from work. When I was 16 I was as lucky as I probably could ever be. What was I going to blame my parents for?? The second world war. This girl has irrational fears that as a 16 year old I do not understand. The world is different, social media is now available to scare the hell out of kids and make them neurotic about everything around them.

[seacoaster]

"...This girl has irrational fears that as a 16 year old I do not understand. The world is different, social media is now available to scare the hell out of kids and make them neurotic about everything around them."

Irrational? The kid appears to be responding to the science, and the odds that working against the things that may cause climate change and associated disruptions will be a net plus to her planet. But your grandkids will get a nice tan.

[CU88]

I wrote "likely", my friend. Simply pointing out that it's easy for you and I to talk about this stuff, when it's more likely a 16 year old will deal with consequences if we're wrong, and, for example, the problem is worse that we believe.

If I'm 16, I understand the anger she holds towards us geezers.

I can't relate to what you are saying here a Fan. Maybe that is because I am an old geezer now. When I was 16 I was fortunate that had parents that worked like dogs to take care of their kids. Dad worked all day while mom took care of the house and then worked until 11:30 at night. I was lucky enough to often stay up late enough to ride with my dad to pick her up from work. When I was 16 I was as lucky as I probably could ever be. What was I going to blame my parents for?? The second world war. This girl has irrational fears that as a 16 year old I do not understand. The world is different, social media is now available to scare the hell out of kids and make them neurotic about everything around them.

Seems that the people who have the biggest issue with a child acting like an adult are the same ones who don't have a problem with an adult acting like a child.

[cradleandshoot]

I wrote "likely", my friend. Simply pointing out that it's easy for you and I to talk about this stuff, when it's more likely a 16 year old will deal with consequences if we're wrong, and, for example, the problem is worse that we believe.

If I'm 16, I understand the anger she holds towards us geezers.

I can't relate to what you are saying here a Fan. Maybe that is because I am an old geezer now. When I was 16 I was fortunate that had parents that worked like dogs to take care of their kids. Dad worked all day while mom took care of the house and then worked until 11:30 at night. I was lucky enough to often stay up late enough to ride with my dad to pick her up from work. When I was 16 I was as lucky as I probably could ever be. What was I going to blame my parents for?? The second world war. This girl has irrational fears that as a 16 year old I do not understand. The world is different, social media is now available to scare the hell out of kids and make them neurotic about everything around them.

Seems that the people who have the biggest issue with a child acting like an adult are the same ones who don't have a problem with an adult acting like a child.

That was a child acting like an adult? That was a child reacting out of irrational fear of what she does not know. I hope she never reads any Steven King books that would likely put her over the edge. What was it FDR said... " we have nothing to fear but fear itself " that ship sure has sailed.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I wrote "likely", my friend. Simply pointing out that it's easy for you and I to talk about this stuff, when it's more likely a 16 year old will deal with consequences if we're wrong, and, for example, the problem is worse that we believe.

If I'm 16, I understand the anger she holds towards us geezers.

I can't relate to what you are saying here a Fan. Maybe that is because I am an old geezer now. When I was 16 I was fortunate that had parents that worked like dogs to take care of their kids. Dad worked all day while mom took care of the house and then worked until 11:30 at night. I was lucky enough to often stay up late enough to ride with my dad to pick her up from work. When I was 16 I was as lucky as I probably could ever be. What was I going to blame my parents for?? The second world war. This girl has irrational fears that as a 16 year old I do not understand. The world is different, social media is now available to scare the hell out of kids and make them neurotic about everything around them.

Seems that the people who have the biggest issue with a child acting like an adult are the same ones who don't have a problem with an adult acting like a child.

That was a child acting like an adult? That was a child reacting out of irrational fear of what she does not know. I hope she never reads any Steven King books that would likely put her over the edge. What was it FDR said... " we have nothing to fear but fear itself " that ship sure has sailed.

Concerned doesn’t equal fear.

[cradleandshoot]

I wrote "likely", my friend. Simply pointing out that it's easy for you and I to talk about this stuff, when it's more likely a 16 year old will deal with consequences if we're wrong, and, for example, the problem is worse that we believe.

If I'm 16, I understand the anger she holds towards us geezers.

I can't relate to what you are saying here a Fan. Maybe that is because I am an old geezer now. When I was 16 I was fortunate that had parents that worked like dogs to take care of their kids. Dad worked all day while mom took care of the house and then worked until 11:30 at night. I was lucky enough to often stay up late enough to ride with my dad to pick her up from work. When I was 16 I was as lucky as I probably could ever be. What was I going to blame my parents for?? The second world war. This girl has irrational fears that as a 16 year old I do not understand. The world is different, social media is now available to scare the hell out of kids and make them neurotic about everything around them.

Seems that the people who have the biggest issue with a child acting like an adult are the same ones who don't have a problem with an adult acting like a child.

That was a child acting like an adult? That was a child reacting out of irrational fear of what she does not know. I hope she never reads any Steven King books that would likely put her over the edge. What was it FDR said... " we have nothing to fear but fear itself " that ship sure has sailed.

Concerned doesn’t equal fear.
All I saw was anger and fear. She said her piece and she made her point.

[RedFromMI]

Cradle thinks that because he distrusts the science here all fear of climate change is irrational, whereas those of us who seem to have a more complete understanding of science don't see this fear as irrational.

[a fan]

I wrote "likely", my friend. Simply pointing out that it's easy for you and I to talk about this stuff, when it's more likely a 16 year old will deal with consequences if we're wrong, and, for example, the problem is worse that we believe.

If I'm 16, I understand the anger she holds towards us geezers.

I can't relate to what you are saying here a Fan. Maybe that is because I am an old geezer now. When I was 16 I was fortunate that had parents that worked like dogs to take care of their kids. Dad worked all day while mom took care of the house and then worked until 11:30 at night. I was lucky enough to often stay up late enough to ride with my dad to pick her up from work. When I was 16 I was as lucky as I probably could ever be. What was I going to blame my parents for?? The second world war. This girl has irrational fears that as a 16 year old I do not understand. The world is different, social media is now available to scare the hell out of kids and make them neurotic about everything around them.

All I'm saying is----if (emphasis on the word "if") global warming is as severe as the consensus of scientists say, even if you and I live to 100, this 16 year old girl is MORE LIKELY to have to deal with the effects. That's all. Nothing else.

[a fan]

My question is this: all these kids are going to skip school every Friday until climate change is stopped. (Actually heard a young girl stating pretty much that this is the plan.) So the question, how will they know when enough has been done and they can go back to school? What are the markers? Are are we just going to have four day school (and work) weeks forever?

Dunno, but I'm glad they're passionate about something other than instagram and the Kardasians (Sp?).

The key part is: will some of them put the work in, and become engineers and scientists who can actually solve problems? Or are they just going to complain?

[cradleandshoot]

Cradle thinks that because he distrusts the science here all fear of climate change is irrational, whereas those of us who seem to have a more complete understanding of science don't see this fear as irrational.

For a self acknowledged genius you must be on the modified team. I listen to the key words in the sentences of the chicken little brigade. You hear words like... possibly and this could happen and in the worst case. How can I distrust the science when you look close enough even the scientists don't understand the science. I look closer at the proposed solutions which are idiotic to the point of laughable. You are a very intelligent guy Red. You have made that very clear. Explain to me how the tipping point works when the planet achieves a level of co2 that you seem appropriate? How does the planet get back to Normal? Does it ever get back to normal? With your vast amount of wisdom... what is normal? My experience from the last 45 years going back to high school has brilliant scientists making one wrong guess after another after another. A cynical person like myself would call them clueless. They just continue to call themselves...well... brilliant.

[frmanfan]

fan, my guess would be 95% will complain, maybe 5% will try to do something about it. Very few will change their lifestyle to any great affect.

Red, I too am trained in science. Only a moron would say climate change doesn't exist. The climate has been changing from one extreme to another for a lot longer than we have been studying it, and even longer than human civilization, and even longer than our current form Homo sapiens sapiens has existed. Current thinking on the extinction of Homo neanderthalensis is that they were squeezed out of their environment by a mile thick sheet of ice about 40,000 years ago. Now that is serious climate change.

I was up in Sault Ste Marie (Canada) a few weeks back, the plaque on the Riverwalk of the St. Mary's river notes that it was formed 10,000 years ago, when the last ice age ended. The Great Lakes, Niagara Falls, all formed at that time. 10,000 years is a geological spit in the bucket. And that is climate change. And humans had nothing to do with it.

The problem I have is that scientists lose all credibility, IMO, when they become fortune tellers and try to tell us what is going to happen in a hundred years. At that point they are just guesses, some may be correct, but then again, maybe not. And none of us, not even Greta, will be around to see it.

Should humans reduce emissions and whatever passes for pollution from human activities? Certainly, but we won't eliminate them, unless we all agree to live within 50 miles of the equator, without artificial heat or light, cell phones, television, cars, whatever, and live in loin cloths and eat nuts and berries. Until then, even with promised changes, human activities will continue to move things in the same direction they have been going for the past 150 years.

[MDlaxfan76]

Cradle thinks that because he distrusts the science here all fear of climate change is irrational, whereas those of us who seem to have a more complete understanding of science don't see this fear as irrational.

For a self acknowledged genius you must be on the modified team. I listen to the key words in the sentences of the chicken little brigade. You hear words like... possibly and this could happen and in the worst case. How can I distrust the science when you look close enough even the scientists don't understand the science. I look closer at the proposed solutions which are idiotic to the point of laughable. You are a very intelligent guy Red. You have made that very clear. Explain to me how the tipping point works when the planet achieves a level of co2 that you seem appropriate? How does the planet get back to Normal? Does it ever get back to normal? With your vast amount of wisdom... what is normal? My experience from the last 45 years going back to high school has brilliant scientists making one wrong guess after another after another. A cynical person like myself would call them clueless. They just continue to call themselves...well... brilliant.

funny, I don't know any scientists who call themselves "brilliant", much less "genius".
Some of their fellow scientists, and certainly media, will use those words to describe the truly exceptional, but I've not once heard a legit scientist describe themselves that way.

Most scientists have considerable humility about how hard it is to truly innovate in their arena, to achieve a breakthrough in knowledge, and how fortunate they are when they actually do. They respect the scientific process of trial and error, repeatability, etc. They often speak of the serendipity, as well as grueling hours, to achieve major advances in knowledge.

But some folks, who have no comprehension at all of these processes, are immensely resentful.
I have no idea whether it's that they are resentful that the 'nerds' have their 'revenge' in real life or something else, but they seem to always be dismissive of those who actually drive innovations and breakthroughs that we all depend upon in our daily lives, and which have lifted so many out of poverty. Jealousy?

[MDlaxfan76]

fan, my guess would be 95% will complain, maybe 5% will try to do something about it. Very few will change their lifestyle to any great affect.

Red, I too am trained in science. Only a moron would say climate change doesn't exist. The climate has been changing from one extreme to another for a lot longer than we have been studying it, and even longer than human civilization, and even longer than our current form Homo sapiens sapiens has existed. Current thinking on the extinction of Homo neanderthalensis is that they were squeezed out of their environment by a mile thick sheet of ice about 40,000 years ago. Now that is serious climate change.

I was up in Sault Ste Marie (Canada) a few weeks back, the plaque on the Riverwalk of the St. Mary's river notes that it was formed 10,000 years ago, when the last ice age ended. The Great Lakes, Niagara Falls, all formed at that time. 10,000 years is a geological spit in the bucket. And that is climate change. And humans had nothing to do with it.

The problem I have is that scientists lose all credibility, IMO, when they become fortune tellers and try to tell us what is going to happen in a hundred years. At that point they are just guesses, some may be correct, but then again, maybe not. And none of us, not even Greta, will be around to see it.

Should humans reduce emissions and whatever passes for pollution from human activities? Certainly, but we won't eliminate them, unless we all agree to live within 50 miles of the equator, without artificial heat or light, cell phones, television, cars, whatever, and live in loin cloths and eat nuts and berries. Until then, even with promised changes, human activities will continue to move things in the same direction they have been going for the past 150 years.

frmanfan,
Would you agree that throughout those eons, the Earth has not had another species comparable to current mankind with the potential to destroy the Earth's habitability with the push of a button?

Or any other species with so large and growing impact upon our environment due to technology advances?

If the answer is that mankind's current and potential impact is singular in Earth's eons of history, is it not rational to consider whether we might wish to control or modify those impacts going forward?

Should we not utilize those same exceptional drivers that have led to mankind's successful proliferation and exploitation of Earth's resources, our collective intelligence, to achieve rational modification and control of our impacts?

And if yes, is it not prudent to indeed predict future outcomes of various choices?

Of course, we do not have complete information. Certainly not of future events beyond our control.

But this is a question of whether we bury our heads in the sand and ignore the scientists, and our current knowledge base, or whether we take seriously the consensus of predictions and, thus, take action to insure against the worst outcomes.

Seems to me the answer is obvious. Be rational. Be careful. Start now.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Cradle thinks that because he distrusts the science here all fear of climate change is irrational, whereas those of us who seem to have a more complete understanding of science don't see this fear as irrational.

For a self acknowledged genius you must be on the modified team. I listen to the key words in the sentences of the chicken little brigade. You hear words like... possibly and this could happen and in the worst case. How can I distrust the science when you look close enough even the scientists don't understand the science. I look closer at the proposed solutions which are idiotic to the point of laughable. You are a very intelligent guy Red. You have made that very clear. Explain to me how the tipping point works when the planet achieves a level of co2 that you seem appropriate? How does the planet get back to Normal? Does it ever get back to normal? With your vast amount of wisdom... what is normal? My experience from the last 45 years going back to high school has brilliant scientists making one wrong guess after another after another. A cynical person like myself would call them clueless. They just continue to call themselves...well... brilliant.

It’s possible that you can have a car accident tomorrow if you drink and drive. Plenty of people make it home drunk....nothing wrong with driving while tanked.

[HooDat]

rmanfan,
Would you agree that throughout those eons, the Earth has not had another species comparable to current mankind with the potential to destroy the Earth's habitability with the push of a button?

Or any other species with so large and growing impact upon our environment due to technology advances?

If the answer is that mankind's current and potential impact is singular in Earth's eons of history, is it not rational to consider whether we might wish to control or modify those impacts going forward?

Should we not utilize those same exceptional drivers that have led to mankind's successful proliferation and exploitation of Earth's resources, our collective intelligence, to achieve rational modification and control of our impacts?

And if yes, is it not prudent to indeed predict future outcomes of various choices?

Of course, we do not have complete information. Certainly not of future events beyond our control.

But this is a question of whether we bury our heads in the sand and ignore the scientists, and our current knowledge base, or whether we take seriously the consensus of predictions and, thus, take action to insure against the worst outcomes.

Seems to me the answer is obvious. Be rational. Be careful. Start now.

We should do what we can to keep our "house" clean. But the doomsday messages and scare tactics of the modern militant/religious "environmentalists" do nothing to help.

That very same technology you reference will most likely be what let's us find a fantastic equilibrium.

There are plenty of beasts and fowl that have done more to destroy the ecosystem on which their life depends that humans have even flirted with. The snow goose comes to mind as a current example. Now the way mother nature sorts that out, tends to be pretty gruesome. so I'd prefer to avoid it.

Let's fix what we KNOW we can fix - clean our waterways, reduce consumption and waste...

Let's also work toward finding long term solutions, but let's not use politics and fear-mongering to generate huge piles of wealth for a handful of people who are good at playing the system.