JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

[old salt]

Ok, ok, old salt.

No matter who came up with it first, it's unsubstantiated nonsense, and almost all of it can be easily explained by Trump or Trump's toadies doing the leaking. And if I were you, I would find it....how do I put this nicely?....."upsetting" if I had the exact same tinfoil hat conspiracy theories that Sean Hannity held.

Have any of these leaks damaged Trump in any way? Nope. Base is happy. Pelosi and McConnell all too happy to sign massive spending bills.

And remember when you claimed that Trump was radioactive with Russia, but when Mueller cleared him, Trump could unleash his Russia-master-plan?

...have any of those leaks damaged Mike Flynn ? There's still scores to settle.

Trump will never be able to deal with Russia. ...no POTUS will until Putin's gone.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Oh boy

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/20/th ... gate-hoax/

[a fan]

...have any of those leaks damaged Mike Flynn ? There's still scores to settle.

The leak didn't damage Flynn.

Lying to Pence, the Nation, and the FBI did.

No lie, no problem. "That's not illegal" defense has worked just fine for all of Trump's crew.....talking to a Russian was a nothing sandwich for Flynn. That leak would have done NOTHING to Pence had he either told the truth, or said nothing at all.

Trump will never be able to deal with Russia. ...no POTUS will until Putin's gone.

Yep. But that's not what you said before.

Putin would have to stop messing with our elections and other hacks. He's not going to do that. Therefore, no one can renew relations with Russia while Putin is on deck.

[old salt]

...have any of those leaks damaged Mike Flynn ? There's still scores to settle.

The leak didn't damage Flynn.

Lying to Pence, the Nation, and the FBI did.

No lie, no problem. "That's not illegal" defense has worked just fine for all of Trump's crew.....talking to a Russian was a nothing sandwich for Flynn. That leak would have done NOTHING to Pence had he either told the truth, or said nothing at all.

Trump will never be able to deal with Russia. ...no POTUS will until Putin's gone.

Yep. But that's not what you said before.

Putin would have to stop messing with our elections and other hacks. He's not going to do that. Therefore, no one can renew relations with Russia while Putin is on deck.

Flynn was giving Trump & Pence plausible deniability of their knowledge of his back channel comms with Kislyak, on the Trump Admin's behalf.
Had there been no felonious leak of classified unmasked FISA intercepts -- then there would have been no problem.
Not unlike Biden's aides not informing him of the coverage of his kid's dealing with Ukraine & their "don't ask, don't tell" arrangement.

Not what I said before about Trump not being able to deal with Russia ? BS. You have selective recall.
How often & early did I say that for Trump, anything having to do with Russia, would now be radioactive.
Remember me using the word "radioactive".
I posted about what Trump & Flynn hoped to accomplish with Russia, before the possibility of outreach was sabotaged by the Deep State & our irrational Russophobia,

[tech37]

Hence why I put the link to We Didn’t Start the Fire by...Billy Joel.

But explain to me how it’s a distinction without a difference. I don’t get your point.

But again YOU did write “boomers pushing back” and there’s a huge difference if you google some basic population economics, maybe check out Malthus. Or intro to macroecon where they teach about the means of production like...labor, which is a function of population dirt, quality of population w respect to KSAs (knowledge, skills and abilities).

Yeah, that was not the best use of the English language on my part...but without being esoteric about this ( I'll get right on that Malthus stuff ) it seems to me that it's not easy to compare generations, when each is a byproduct of the previous generation. Successive generations are too closely intertwined to claim one better or worse than the other.

[tech37]

And I get that.....you likely didn't see the post where I told Old Salt that I caught Lawrence ODonnell (sp) and Maddow (because of the Missus) for an hour or two for the first time in I don't know how long, and it made me understand where Old Salt was coming from in his gripe about the Resistance and the Prestwick story. Those two are just waaaaaay over the top, and are more ridiculous than ever. Did see this and it warmed the cockles of my heart

But, again, that doesn't mean that this stuff Trump is doing is ok. It's a mistake to judge what Trump and Co. do by the reaction of the left. They can both be wankers, and send the whole country down the toilet. That's a bit "alarmist" for my taste but see your point of course.

I've gone from liberal, to libertarian (boy was I dumb back then), to fiscal conservative in my last 30 years. How about you? I supported Gore in 2000. 9/11 changed everything for me. That was a while ago... at this point, I'm a political hybrid (but pragmatist feels about right).

My dad HATES Al Gore. He crossed paths with him in the 1990's on some environmental issues. He's more phony than a $3 bill, according to my dad. Gore could give a fig about the environment, and many of his stolen "ideas" surrounding climate change would make things worse, not better...it's all about power.

Well, unless you crossed paths with him on environmental issues, who knew? At the time, I knew I didn't like Bush. We're talking almost 20 years ago with a heavy dose of historic events thrown in. Geez a fan, and I thought you'd be impressed with my liberal past...didn't even faze you.

[a fan]

Flynn was giving Trump & Pence plausible deniability of their knowledge of his back channel comms with Kislyak, on the Trump Admin's behalf.
Had there been no felonious leak of classified unmasked FISA intercepts -- then there would have been no problem.

Nonsense. If Trump or Pence was informed via legal and covert means, Flynn would've been fired for lying to them. Flynn's fault.

Not what I said before about Trump not being able to deal with Russia ? BS. You have selective recall.
How often & early did I say that for Trump, anything having to do with Russia, would now be radioactive.
Remember me using the word "radioactive".

Yep. Of course I remember. And you said that radioactivity with Republican Congressmen would go away after Mueller cleared him. You were using it as an excuse as to why Trump wasn't handling Putin flawlessly in the manner you liked.

That excuse is gone. Trump's not the problem. Neither was Obama, who you think "did it wrong" with Putin.

Turns out, nope. Obama wasn't the problem. Neither was/is Trump. Putin is the problem....and I tried to tell you that.

I posted about what Trump & Flynn hoped to accomplish with Russia, before the possibility of outreach was sabotaged by the Deep State & our irrational Russophobia,

And I countered that so long as Putin keeps messing with elections, Trump couldn't drop sanctions, or "normalize" relations by acting like he's not actively attacking America.

I was right.

[a fan]

Well, unless you crossed paths with him on environmental issues, who knew? At the time, I knew I didn't like Bush. We're talking almost 20 years ago with a heavy dose of historic events thrown in. Geez a fan, and I thought you'd be impressed with my liberal past...didn't even faze you.

I was, I was. I think where you and I differ is our reaction to 9/11. I was just as angry as you, believe it or not.

[old salt]

Flynn was giving Trump & Pence plausible deniability of their knowledge of his back channel comms with Kislyak, on the Trump Admin's behalf.
Had there been no felonious leak of classified unmasked FISA intercepts -- then there would have been no problem.

Nonsense. If Trump or Pence was informed via legal and covert means, Flynn would've been fired for lying to them. Flynn's fault.

Not what I said before about Trump not being able to deal with Russia ? BS. You have selective recall.
How often & early did I say that for Trump, anything having to do with Russia, would now be radioactive.
Remember me using the word "radioactive".

Yep. Of course I remember. And you said that radioactivity with Republican Congressmen would go away after Mueller cleared him. You were using it as an excuse as to why Trump wasn't handling Putin flawlessly in the manner you liked.

That excuse is gone. Trump's not the problem. Neither was Obama, who you think "did it wrong" with Putin.

Turns out, nope. Obama wasn't the problem. Neither was/is Trump. Putin is the problem....and I tried to tell you that.

I posted about what Trump & Flynn hoped to accomplish with Russia, before the possibility of outreach was sabotaged by the Deep State & our irrational Russophobia,

And I countered that so long as Putin keeps messing with elections, Trump couldn't drop sanctions, or "normalize" relations by acting like he's not actively attacking America.

I was right.

Have you considered that Putin would stop meddling in our elections if we had a working relationship with him, stopped undermining him domestically with our propaganda, dropped our sanctions & negotiated settlements on Ukraine, arms control & military de-escalation.

That's what Trump & Flynn campaigned on & intended, before political sore loser Reset-to-Russophobia drove us into another Cold War.
We should deal with Russia, like we deal with China, except we don't have trade issues with Russia & don't need tariffs with them.
We should be dividing Russia from China, instead of driving them closer together.
Russia should be our ally in fighting the Taliban & AQ/ISIS in central Asia & the ME.

Our EU/NATO allies get it. Look how stubbornly they cling to Nordstream 2, slow walk Magnitsky sanctions & limit military aid to Ukraine.
...even though Putin poisons his defecting spies on EU soil, meddles in the Brexit debate & supports their RW parties.

[foreverlax]

Have you considered that Putin would stop meddling in our elections if we had a working relationship with him, stopped undermining him domestically with our propaganda, dropped our sanctions & negotiated settlements on Ukraine, arms control & military de-escalation.

Looking in to Vlads soul again...that worked out sooo well the last time.

[old salt]

Have you considered that Putin would stop meddling in our elections if we had a working relationship with him, stopped undermining him domestically with our propaganda, dropped our sanctions & negotiated settlements on Ukraine, arms control & military de-escalation.

Looking in to Vlads soul again...that worked out sooo well the last time.

No souls involved. Neither Trump nor Putin have souls.

Kissingerian realpolitik. Acting in our shared interests to our mutual benefit.

[foreverlax]

Have you considered that Putin would stop meddling in our elections if we had a working relationship with him, stopped undermining him domestically with our propaganda, dropped our sanctions & negotiated settlements on Ukraine, arms control & military de-escalation.

Looking in to Vlads soul again...that worked out sooo well the last time.

No souls involved. Neither Trump nor Putin have souls.

Kissingerian realpolitik. Acting in our shared interests to our mutual benefit.

We agree on that...both are soulless.

Putin has his own agenda - the rest of the world has to pay for the USSR becoming Russia and others. Doubt that will ever change while he is serving.

[a fan]

Have you considered that Putin would stop meddling in our elections if we had a working relationship with him

We offered a working relationship with him. He responded by invading a country that he doesn't own.

stopped undermining him domestically with our propaganda

What have we done to him domestically?

dropped our sanctions

So tell the world it's ok to invade Ukraine, and communicate to Putin that we're even softer than the EU? Fine by me, but you know my views on such things. We don't have a treaty with Ukraine, so it's not our problem. It's the UN's problem.

negotiated settlements on Ukraine,

That's easy. Ukraine is its own nation. It can do as it wishes. Old Salt, for reasons I don't get, thinks that Russia "owns" the Ukraine, and "therefore", it's ok to invade it.

You're essentially telling us that Putin's behavior...including the invasion of Ukraine... is America's fault, and we need to make it right. I don't get that. Soviet Union is gone.

Our EU/NATO allies get it. Look how stubbornly they cling to Nordstream 2, slow walk Magnitsky sanctions & limit military aid to Ukraine.
...even though Putin poisons his defecting spies on EU soil, meddles in the Brexit debate & supports their RW parties.

Yes. Appeasement. Pretty weird thing to be championing, considering your view on Iran.

Either Ukraine is sovereign, or it's not. You and the EU seem to be saying is: not. Let Putin do as he wishes.

I don't have a problem with that, but it doesn't fit very well into our current foreign policy, particularly now that Trump sent Troops to Saudi Arabia.

[seacoaster]

Have you considered that Putin would stop meddling in our elections if we had a working relationship with him

We offered a working relationship with him. He responded by invading a country that he doesn't own.

stopped undermining him domestically with our propaganda

What have we done to him domestically?

dropped our sanctions

So tell the world it's ok to invade Ukraine, and communicate to Putin that we're even softer than the EU? Fine by me, but you know my views on such things. We don't have a treaty with Ukraine, so it's not our problem. It's the UN's problem.

negotiated settlements on Ukraine,

That's easy. Ukraine is its own nation. It can do as it wishes. Old Salt, for reasons I don't get, thinks that Russia "owns" the Ukraine, and "therefore", it's ok to invade it.

You're essentially telling us that Putin's behavior...including the invasion of Ukraine... is America's fault, and we need to make it right. I don't get that. Soviet Union is gone.

Our EU/NATO allies get it. Look how stubbornly they cling to Nordstream 2, slow walk Magnitsky sanctions & limit military aid to Ukraine.
...even though Putin poisons his defecting spies on EU soil, meddles in the Brexit debate & supports their RW parties.

Yes. Appeasement. Pretty weird thing to be championing, considering your view on Iran.

Either Ukraine is sovereign, or it's not. You and the EU seem to be saying is: not. Let Putin do as he wishes.

I don't have a problem with that, but it doesn't fit very well into our current foreign policy, particularly now that Trump sent Troops to Saudi Arabia.

+1. Nothing -- no concession or exemplar of supposed good will -- will alter Putin's behavior. Trump can be Stanley Baldwin, with tough guy words.

[cradleandshoot]

Maybe what we need with the Rooskies is a RESET BUTTON? A big bright red reset button.

[a fan]

That was one of those moments where you hope that that was CGI from the Onion, and Hillary didn't really do that. I can't imagine what Putin was thinking. Or Obama, when he saw that.....instant facepalm.

That said, Trump has had no better luck with Putin.

[old salt]

Have you considered that Putin would stop meddling in our elections if we had a working relationship with him

We offered a working relationship with him. He responded by invading a country that he doesn't own.

stopped undermining him domestically with our propaganda

What have we done to him domestically?

dropped our sanctions

So tell the world it's ok to invade Ukraine, and communicate to Putin that we're even softer than the EU? Fine by me, but you know my views on such things. We don't have a treaty with Ukraine, so it's not our problem. It's the UN's problem.

negotiated settlements on Ukraine,

That's easy. Ukraine is its own nation. It can do as it wishes. Old Salt, for reasons I don't get, thinks that Russia "owns" the Ukraine, and "therefore", it's ok to invade it.

You're essentially telling us that Putin's behavior...including the invasion of Ukraine... is America's fault, and we need to make it right. I don't get that. Soviet Union is gone.

Our EU/NATO allies get it. Look how stubbornly they cling to Nordstream 2, slow walk Magnitsky sanctions & limit military aid to Ukraine.
...even though Putin poisons his defecting spies on EU soil, meddles in the Brexit debate & supports their RW parties.

Yes. Appeasement. Pretty weird thing to be championing, considering your view on Iran.

Either Ukraine is sovereign, or it's not. You and the EU seem to be saying is: not. Let Putin do as he wishes.

I don't have a problem with that, but it doesn't fit very well into our current foreign policy, particularly now that Trump sent Troops to Saudi Arabia.

+1. Nothing -- no concession or exemplar of supposed good will -- will alter Putin's behavior. Trump can be Stanley Baldwin, with tough guy words.

OK. Now a question for you Cold Warrior Russia Hawks ? Tell us your strategy for Ukraine.

Even though we criticize Russia for "meddling" in the affairs of democracies -- we're now examining the entrails of our meddling in Ukraine, both in Biden dictating who can serve in Ukraine's govt, in return for loan guarantees, & now our Congress insisting that Trump provide lethal military aid (which the EU refuses to do).

So what do you NeoHawks hope to achieve in Ukraine, & how ? Ukraine is a large industrialized nation which inherited much of the USSR's military & MIC. They are capable of defending themselves. What is the expected outcome ? Do you expect to force Russia to withdraw from the Donbass & Crimea ? ...given that Russia (or proxy) still occupies ethnic enclaves within Georgia & Azerbaijan (Armenian proxy) ? How much military aid & diplomatic support are you willing to provide, for how long ?

Are you driving toward a conclusive outcome or just donating the firepower to extend the war & the killing in Ukraine ?

[cradleandshoot]

That was one of those moments where you hope that that was CGI from the Onion, and Hillary didn't really do that. I can't imagine what Putin was thinking. Or Obama, when he saw that.....instant facepalm.

That said, Trump has had no better luck with Putin.

"That said, Trump has had no better luck with Putin." I wonder if trump has considered good old American graft and bribery. That usually works for most politicians. Go with what you know best.

[seacoaster]

"I wonder if trump has considered good old American graft and bribery."

I think the answer is yes. Every day, most of the day.

[CU88]

That was one of those moments where you hope that that was CGI from the Onion, and Hillary didn't really do that. I can't imagine what Putin was thinking. Or Obama, when he saw that.....instant facepalm.

That said, Trump has had no better luck with Putin.

"That said, Trump has had no better luck with Putin." I wonder if trump has considered good old American graft and bribery. That usually works for most politicians. Go with what you know best.

Ha, isn't that the type of "corruption" he was so worried about in Ukraine?

r's are too funny!!!!