Coaching Carousel Pre-2020 Season

[AreaLax]

Andy German on being named Head Coach of @CSUVikingsLax!

[NYSection1]

Andy German on being named Head Coach of @CSUVikingsLax!

A great Villanova lacrosse product. Congratulations. CSU made the right choice.

[GBMan]

Princeton OC heads to Syracuse - after school starts! Can't imagine this is a good thing, but I'm not on the inside in Tiger Land - anyone know what's going on? IMHO Princeton is not only a long,long, long way from another NCAA title, but winning an Ivy again seems kind of far-fetched, or beating Penn or Yale in the next 3-4 years. Matt Madalon seems like a nice enough guy but I don't think he's a championship caliber coach. Give him one more year and than bring in NJ native Sean Kirwan to resurrect the program.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... tant/55272

[laxrules]

Princeton OC heads to Syracuse - after school starts! Can't imagine this is a good thing, but I'm not on the inside in Tiger Land - anyone know what's going on? IMHO Princeton is not only a long,long, long way from another NCAA title, but winning an Ivy again seems kind of far-fetched, or beating Penn or Yale in the next 3-4 years. Matt Madalon seems like a nice enough guy but I don't think he's a championship caliber coach. Give him one more year and than bring in NJ native Sean Kirwan to resurrect the program.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... tant/55272

You may be right about a slim chance for a NC for Princeton. But it has nothing to do with Madalon.
the writing on the wall at Princeton was bold and clear 12 years ago. That writing only has been clearer in recent years.

I respect Kirwan, but to think he is the answer is ridiculous. The answer is in the AD and the administration. The lack of "spots" princeton has proves to be difficult. Princeton needs to figure out what made them great back in 9o's and try to bottle that. But BT left there for a reason!! And his Associate HC who was chosen to take the job said "NO WAY". Madalon was in high school when things started to go bad. Also how many candidates said no to princeton when they hired Bates and Madalon? Seems to be lots!! Something may be wrong on Nassau Street but it is not Madalon!

[10stone5]

Princeton OC heads to Syracuse - after school starts! Can't imagine this is a good thing, but I'm not on the inside in Tiger Land - anyone know what's going on? IMHO Princeton is not only a long,long, long way from another NCAA title, but winning an Ivy again seems kind of far-fetched, or beating Penn or Yale in the next 3-4 years. Matt Madalon seems like a nice enough guy but I don't think he's a championship caliber coach. Give him one more year and than bring in NJ native Sean Kirwan to resurrect the program.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... tant/55272

You may be right about a slim chance for a NC for Princeton. But it has nothing to do with Madalon.
the writing on the wall at Princeton was bold and clear 12 years ago. That writing only has been clearer in recent years.

I respect Kirwan, but to think he is the answer is ridiculous. The answer is in the AD and the administration. The lack of "spots" princeton has proves to be difficult. Princeton needs to figure out what made them great back in 9o's and try to bottle that. But BT left there for a reason!! And his Associate HC who was chosen to take the job said "NO WAY". Madalon was in high school when things started to go bad. Also how many candidates said no to princeton when they hired Bates and Madalon? Seems to be lots!! Something may be wrong on Nassau Street but it is not Madalon!

I have a pretty good idea on two Princeton probably talked to during the Bates hire, based on where they ended up, and they were not all that much better than Bates. Bates did not need to go to P-ton, he had come off two near NCAAs. So, I think Bates was actually a very tough sell, but he was under family pressures to where he thought P-ton would be better as a family decision.

[laxrules]

I have a pretty good idea on two Princeton probably talked to during the Bates hire, based on where they ended up, and they were not all that much better than Bates. Bates did not need to go to P-ton, he had come off two near NCAAs. So, I think Bates was actually a very tough sell, but he was under family pressures to where he thought P-ton would be better as a family decision.

My point is that Princeton has heard 'No thanks" a lot more than they have heard "I will take it" since 2009 when Tierney left. I would say that over 7 candidates (give or take) said "No Thanks!!"

Put that in perspective...what other program (with this type of tradition) would hear NO from candidates? NONE!

Princeton has to figure some things out. Not because their OC left for Syracuse, but because their Alumni, supporters, followers and even folks on the outside rooting against the tigers are comparing Princeton today to the Princeton of the glory days. That is an unfair comparison.

[GBMan]

Laxrules, sounds like you know what you're talking about with some inside dope - me, I'm on the outside trying to figure things out. I hear you when you say Madalon isn't the issue, but the admin is. I've heard that before, though, and I'm not sure I buy it. Let's take a look at these items one by one:

1. The idea that BT left PU because of lack of admin support, i.e. lack of "spots": Does this make sense? PU is the biggest supporter of athletics in the Ivies, judging by the number of Ivy championships and % of kids who play varsity sports. BT had brought great honor to Men's Lacrosse by winning 6 NCAA's, by the quality of the program he ran, and by all the great kids he coached. The Women's lacrosse team is also highly respected. Why would the admin suddenly turn on BT and Men's lacrosse? Also, before BT left he had recruited kids you might have heard of -Tom Schreiber, Mike Chanenchuk, and Jeff Froccaro. All three guys are fantastic talents now playing in the PLL, but unfortunately never got the chance to play much together because of injuries. But five star guys any way you look at it. Why not take BT at his word? He's said numerous times he was at a point in his life where he was feeling a little stale, one of his kids was out at Denver, and he wanted to start a new chapter. Sounds plausible to me. Why conclude that BT was so mad at the admin he jumped ship?

2. Dave Metzbower, BT's #2, said he didn't want to be PU HC or a HC anywhere else, and true to his word he's never taken a HC job. Currently he's OC at NC, where he helped them win a championship a few years back. Why not take Dave at his word? Again, sounds plausible to me. Why conclude he was so fed up with the admin he didn't want the HC job?

3. Spots: yes, getting five star kids accepted at an Ivy is not easy. And maybe BT had gotten tired of the fight and wanted to be able to offer full scholarships. But don't Yale and Penn have the same issues? Is PU somehow categorically different for this one sport - Men's lacrosse -while strongly supporting all other varsity sports? Last year the football team was 10-0 and set all kinds of records. Somehow the football team is getting the kids they want. Also, take a look at some of the recent Penn and Yale lax recruits - was PU anywhere in the game with Yale's Ben Reeves, for example? Or Penn's Sam Handley? I don't think so. Is that the admin's fault? Did these two apply to PU and weren't accepted? I highly doubt it.

4. Coach Madalon: Sorry, I stick to my statement: nice guy, but not a championship caliber coach. Change the admin, increase the spots, still not a championship caliber coach. Bottom line: his teams don't win the 4th quarters. You can't win anything if you can't win a 4th Q. Look at the last couple of years and you'll see.

5. Sean Kirwan: Okay, I admit I'd love to see a young guy with fresh ideas turn things around, so that's why I keep throwing his name out there.

6. Status quo: whatever the root cause, I don't see this program going anywhere anytime soon. If the admin is the problem like you say, I need more of an explanation as to why they'd single out men's lacrosse but still support all the other teams.

[AreaLax]

After losing Pat March to Syracuse, Princeton will hire former Bellarmine head coach and current Providence assistant Jim Mitchell as their next assistant, multiple sources tell @College_Crosse.

[DALaxDad]

Here are the years that Princeton won the national lacrosse championship. In parenthesis are the football team's record for those same years. There are a limited number of "spots" as you say. And if more of those spots go to one sport, fewer are available for the others. Hence, no 10-0 Princeton football while the lax team was sucessful. I didn't go look, but my guess is that men's hockey didn't do so well in those years either.

1992 (8-2)
1994 (7-3)
1996 (3-7)
1997 (6-4)
1998 (5-5)
2001 (3-6)

[GBMan]

Here are the years that Princeton won the national lacrosse championship. In parenthesis are the football team's record for those same years. There are a limited number of "spots" as you say. And if more of those spots go to one sport, fewer are available for the others. Hence, no 10-0 Princeton football while the lax team was sucessful. I didn't go look, but my guess is that men's hockey didn't do so well in those years either.

1992 (8-2)
1994 (7-3)
1996 (3-7)
1997 (6-4)
1998 (5-5)
2001 (3-6)

This is an interesting connection. Is that how it works, there's an overall # of spots, not sport specific? I could see coaches at each other's throats if that's the case. I'd love to hear from someone in an Ivy admissions office give us a peek inside the room about how all this goes down.

[youthathletics]

Maybe the picture being painted is the lax players were not as smart as the football players....therefore the AI rating across all sports was being carried by the Football team in those years lax performed so well and football not so well.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Here are the years that Princeton won the national lacrosse championship. In parenthesis are the football team's record for those same years. There are a limited number of "spots" as you say. And if more of those spots go to one sport, fewer are available for the others. Hence, no 10-0 Princeton football while the lax team was sucessful. I didn't go look, but my guess is that men's hockey didn't do so well in those years either.

1992 (8-2)
1994 (7-3)
1996 (3-7)
1997 (6-4)
1998 (5-5)
2001 (3-6)

This is an interesting connection. Is that how it works, there's an overall # of spots, not sport specific? I could see coaches at each other's throats if that's the case. I'd love to hear from someone in an Ivy admissions office give us a peek inside the room about how all this goes down.

Absolutely. Add in women’s sports and it’s a fine balance. I was surprised to hear how man slots some schools get. I know for a fact an Ivy MLAX team only had 5 slots 8 years ago ....Now has at least 12. Another has 12 and some “Mulligans”...
Priorities shift over time.

[No Tilt]

i gather this thread is typically built for head coaching moves, but i can't help but notice that VMI is once again without assistant coaches.

sean doyle left after 1 year to return to almamater RMU.
casey macdonald is not on campus, hearing he is not going back.
former legend head coach doug bartlett remains as volunteer assistant.

in doing some soft digging, there have been 7 assistants leave VMI in the last 3 seasons under the head coach.

common denominator?

[sguy9]

common denominator?

Underfunded program that pays it's assistant coaches lower than some "volunteers" make at better funded programs.

[Farfromgeneva]

Is there any chance Mitchell was given some inkling he’d be next man up if Madalon were to be replaced? Odd he flipped his own choice from prov where Gabrielli is likely getting some bigger job looks to Princeton as someone who has HC experience already.

[oldjayfan]

Here are the years that Princeton won the national lacrosse championship. In parenthesis are the football team's record for those same years. There are a limited number of "spots" as you say. And if more of those spots go to one sport, fewer are available for the others. Hence, no 10-0 Princeton football while the lax team was sucessful. I didn't go look, but my guess is that men's hockey didn't do so well in those years either.

1992 (8-2)
1994 (7-3)
1996 (3-7)
1997 (6-4)
1998 (5-5)
2001 (3-6)

Not disputing your logic; however, PU had a President and AD that were, alledgedly, very lenient wtih athletic admits during BT's tenure as lax coach. I haven't researched the topic, but I was told that PU won an inordinate number of Ivy League championships while that duo was running the school. Further, when they left, it hastened BT's exodus west--he saw the writing on the wall..

[DALaxDad]

oldjay, it is possible that the new administration limited (or announced their intention to limit) athletic spots more than required by league rules. I had always heard that BT left becasue he was not going to have the same leeway he had experienced. Whether that was to benefit other teams or to address a self-imposed limitation, who knows. Apart from the base-line league wide AI, each school has limits by team and by recruited athletes based on their average AI and that of the school at large.

[OCanada]

BT lost Princeton’s equivalent of Jerry Schnydman. That is someone outside the Athletic Department. I forget his name.

LaxFi gave it to me a very long time ago. RIP

It also showed up a time or two in LaxPower as I recall