Sensible Gun Safety

[CU88]

Next POTUS needs to follow o d lead and declare Presidential Emergency.

How One Grieving Father Got Lawn Darts Banned

https://mentalfloss.com/article/31176/h ... rts-banned

[holmes435]

You're still chasing small potatoes with AR's - those mass shootings with ARs are less than 1% of gun deaths this year.

There's several different flavors of this problem, Holmes. Mass shootings are diff than suicides. Suicides are diff than inner city gang shootings. Terrorist shootings (Islamic, White Nationalist or otherwise) are diff than school shootings. We ALL know that.

So your cause is not helped by pretending that you are the only guy who knows the duh obvious stuff. And please tell what your suggested solutions to hand gun related issues are if you want to ignore MSSA weapons. We're all ears. And before you say "mental health" or "video games", let's agree that video games and crazy people are everywhere -- there not just in the U.S. So what you got?

It is duh obvious that a variety of measures would be needed to address a variety of problems.

We had a ban on MSSA weapons from 94-04. We'd be better off today if that had been left in place rather than dumbly letting that particular toothpaste out of the tube again. Hell -- even Reagan supported that ban! Folks still had easy access to guns during those ten years. Out here in CO we banned HCMs several years ago. Amazingly, the sun has continued to rise every day since. And there's still happy shooters and hunters in large quantities out here -- as can be observed any day at a Cabela's or Sportsman's Warehouse location. Which are everywhere around here.

As you say, it's not one single problem (such as a gun problem), it's a lot of different problems.

Mass shootings are usually talked about beforehand and there is a triggering event. It's getting easier for kids to say something in schools, we need other ways of reporting potential threats and finding a way to get them help, preferably non-police at an early stage. We also need much more responsible media coverage of these events. The media is basically creating a high score list, and mass shootings, like suicides, are socially contagious. You see big jumps in copycat threats with mass shootings after an event, and jumps in suicides after high profile ones like Robin Williams.

Video games are a bogeyman of the right, it's absolutely idiotic that they get the blame on anything when science has shown no correlation or causation between the two.

As far as mental health, we need universal healthcare with stupidly easy access to counseling. Suicides are 60% of gun deaths. But it's not just counseling, we need better social safety nets to reduce stress if someone loses a job, or a loved one, etc. Whether that's a UBI, or better unemployment or something, I don't know. That will also help with triggering events that contribute to mass shootings.

We need better firearm education on handling and storage, preferably taught in schools with other constitutional education, and tougher storage laws to prevent stolen guns and kids taking their parents guns and killing themselves or others accidentally or on purpose.

So with that we've reduced suicides and mass shootings by a meaningful amount without taking anyone's guns. Next up, drug and gang related deaths, which are a good chunk of gun deaths after suicides. Legalization of pot and maybe decriminalization of some other drugs combined with improved social safety nets and universal health care will help with drug and gang related shootings. We're still in one of the lowest violent crime rates in recorded history, though we've seen a little uptick due to the opioid crisis. Hopefully this will also lead to lower incarceration rates around the country, leading to stronger families with fewer one parent households.


The main thing I'm interested is looking at and treating the root causes of all these problems where guns are just part of the symptoms - those solutions are just a few of many that will make a huge dent in the homicide and suicide rate in this country. If you just take away guns then you still have suicidal and homicidal people out there.

[ggait]

Holmes -- good post. Definitely there are different problems that require different approaches. But in many cases, it really is primarily about the guns.

In the U.S., women are 2X more likely to be depressed and 3X more likely to attempt suicide. Yet men account for 79% of U.S. suicides. Why?

Men primarily use guns to attempt suicide, and a gun simply is a MUCH better tool for that job. Without access to that tool, most of those guys would still be suicidal but they also would still be living.

Similarly, an AR-15 is a MUCH better tool for the job of killing a lot of people in a short period of time.

Them's the facts.

[holmes435]

Holmes -- good post. Definitely there are different problems that require different approaches. But in many cases, it really is primarily about the guns.

In the U.S., women are 2X more likely to be depressed and 3X more likely to attempt suicide. Yet men account for 79% of U.S. suicides. Why?

Men primarily use guns to attempt suicide, and a gun simply is a MUCH better tool for that job. Without access to that tool, most of those guys would still be suicidal but they also would still be living.

In Japan, about 70% of suicides are men. In Europe, about 75% of suicides are men. In many parts of the former USSR it can be as high as 85% male. It's not just a guns thing.

The Japanese suicide rate is higher than the US despite having hardly any guns. You see very little effect on suicide rates after new gun laws introduced in other countries, and no long term effect on rates.

Overall, suicide is not primarily about guns.

[DMac]

Nope, it's not.....and this isn't facts, ggait:

"Men primarily use guns to attempt suicide, and a gun simply is a MUCH better tool for that job. Without access to that tool, most of those guys would still be suicidal but they also would still be living.


Them's the facts."

Primarily using guns is, but "would still be living" without access to a gun isn't.
That's just a guess.

[ggait]

Holmes -- I think the data says that, for men in the U.S., suicide is pretty significantly about the guns.

Japanese culture has long been quite accepting of suicide as a valid choice. But even accounting for that strong cultural attitude, the male suicide rate in the U.S. (#38) is higher than Japan (#40).

And the U.S. male suicide rate is higher than all our peer developed countries -- 52 France, 54 Ireland, 59 Australia, 60 New Zealand, 72 Canada, 90 Germany, 107 UK, 129 Spain, 138 Italy.

There's suicidal guys everywhere, but the guys in the U.S. are more successful in being able to complete the task.

[DMac]

Where would we fall on the list without our veterans?

United States military veteran suicide - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › United_States_military_veteran_suicide
A recent analysis found a suicide rate among veterans of about 30 per 100,000 population per year, compared with the civilian rate of 14 per 100,000.

[MDlaxfan76]

You're still chasing small potatoes with AR's - those mass shootings with ARs are less than 1% of gun deaths this year.

There's several different flavors of this problem, Holmes. Mass shootings are diff than suicides. Suicides are diff than inner city gang shootings. Terrorist shootings (Islamic, White Nationalist or otherwise) are diff than school shootings. We ALL know that.

So your cause is not helped by pretending that you are the only guy who knows the duh obvious stuff. And please tell what your suggested solutions to hand gun related issues are if you want to ignore MSSA weapons. We're all ears. And before you say "mental health" or "video games", let's agree that video games and crazy people are everywhere -- there not just in the U.S. So what you got?

It is duh obvious that a variety of measures would be needed to address a variety of problems.

We had a ban on MSSA weapons from 94-04. We'd be better off today if that had been left in place rather than dumbly letting that particular toothpaste out of the tube again. Hell -- even Reagan supported that ban! Folks still had easy access to guns during those ten years. Out here in CO we banned HCMs several years ago. Amazingly, the sun has continued to rise every day since. And there's still happy shooters and hunters in large quantities out here -- as can be observed any day at a Cabela's or Sportsman's Warehouse location. Which are everywhere around here.

As you say, it's not one single problem (such as a gun problem), it's a lot of different problems.

Mass shootings are usually talked about beforehand and there is a triggering event. It's getting easier for kids to say something in schools, we need other ways of reporting potential threats and finding a way to get them help, preferably non-police at an early stage. We also need much more responsible media coverage of these events. The media is basically creating a high score list, and mass shootings, like suicides, are socially contagious. You see big jumps in copycat threats with mass shootings after an event, and jumps in suicides after high profile ones like Robin Williams.

Video games are a bogeyman of the right, it's absolutely idiotic that they get the blame on anything when science has shown no correlation or causation between the two.

As far as mental health, we need universal healthcare with stupidly easy access to counseling. Suicides are 60% of gun deaths. But it's not just counseling, we need better social safety nets to reduce stress if someone loses a job, or a loved one, etc. Whether that's a UBI, or better unemployment or something, I don't know. That will also help with triggering events that contribute to mass shootings.

We need better firearm education on handling and storage, preferably taught in schools with other constitutional education, and tougher storage laws to prevent stolen guns and kids taking their parents guns and killing themselves or others accidentally or on purpose.

So with that we've reduced suicides and mass shootings by a meaningful amount without taking anyone's guns. Next up, drug and gang related deaths, which are a good chunk of gun deaths after suicides. Legalization of pot and maybe decriminalization of some other drugs combined with improved social safety nets and universal health care will help with drug and gang related shootings. We're still in one of the lowest violent crime rates in recorded history, though we've seen a little uptick due to the opioid crisis. Hopefully this will also lead to lower incarceration rates around the country, leading to stronger families with fewer one parent households.


The main thing I'm interested is looking at and treating the root causes of all these problems where guns are just part of the symptoms - those solutions are just a few of many that will make a huge dent in the homicide and suicide rate in this country. If you just take away guns then you still have suicidal and homicidal people out there.

Lots of good ideas. I approve.

But seems to me that we can walk and chew gum.

Access to weapons of rapid killing firepower would help with mass shootings. Quite doable if we have the will.
Doesn't obviate any other efforts as you've described. Walk and chew gum.

So too is ready, fast access to weapons without a background check. Same for unregistered gun ownership.

Reducing the prevalence of guns overall would indeed help with male suicide, but not so sure we can expect sufficient reduction in overall access to all guns to eliminate the issue. I don't see total gun control as feasible. And as a gun owner and hunter, I don't see that as the right approach.

But what type of guns, and their registration, is fine with me.

[No Tilt]

the answer is simple:

put gun education back in schools, along with archery, shop, home economics, etc.

when you KNOW what you're dealing with and are taught the true respect of the TOOL, the desire to use it for harm is diminished. also, teachers can ID students with psycho tendencies/red flags to turn them in to a department to be investigated (which will diminish their potential desire to cause harm just by realizing they are being watched), monitored, and never getting off of any list.

we need HARSHER punishments for felony gun possession because the stats are obvious: a felon with a gun is going to commit a crime.

we also need a fully funded department of gun registration/monitoring. you want to own all the guns? SWEET. own them. but we (the US government) is going to know who you are, how much ammo you've got, what your mental status is/anyone with credible fears of your recent actions, etc.
with that effort, we save a ton of money on wasted police hours, courts, prisons, etc. instead we have a big time employment opportunity for easily 10,000+ Americans. so that's unemployment going down, income tax revenue up. win win win win win win all the way around.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Where would we fall on the list without our veterans?

United States military veteran suicide - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › United_States_military_veteran_suicide
A recent analysis found a suicide rate among veterans of about 30 per 100,000 population per year, compared with the civilian rate of 14 per 100,000.

My wife’s cousin is involved in a significant study of these events. Contracting with the government. It’s not pretty.

[ggait]

Where would we fall on the list without our veterans?

Don't know.

But these folks from the Harvard School of Public Health present some good data for the proposition that easier access to guns is a big plus factor for U.S. male suicides. Because guns are so quick and effective at doing the job.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/faq/#FAQ1

The bigger problem here, as MD points out, is that the hand gun toothpaste is so far out of the tube in the U.S. you wonder what could practically be done about it. Rather than trying to reduce the overall number of handguns in circulation, perhaps the more likely solution would be trying to get folks to lock weapons up and keep them unloaded.

Suicide attempts are usually impulse decisions made by drunk people. So doing things that would slow folks down may be more productive than trying to eliminate the weapons. And, as noted above, what you'd do to address male gun suicides would be completely different than what you'd want to do for mass shootings or for gang violence.

[a fan]

the answer is simple:

put gun education back in schools, along with archery, shop, home economics, etc.

when you KNOW what you're dealing with and are taught the true respect of the TOOL, the desire to use it for harm is diminished.

I honestly can't tell if that's a brilliant idea or a terrible idea.

Complex issue.

[3rdPersonPlural]

I actually thought about this a little bit:

If you want to be a good guy with a civilian firearm:

1. You register your civilian ‘home defense’ weapon(s)

a. How? The ballistic fingerprint of each of your guns needs to be registered with your local police through your local militia (club), and State and National law enforcement needs to have access to this
b. Why? Because when a bullet is found lodged in someone, or casings are found near where he was shot, the police should have a way to find out who shot him. Shooting people should not be a Constitutionally protected pastime.
c. Isn’t that expensive? Yup. But it is the cost of separating the responsible gun owners from the nuts with guns.

2. You re-license them periodically

a. How? Confirming the ballistic fingerprint. It’s like registering your car periodically. This is the cost of having an appliance that can actually kill people
b. Why? With frequent usage, a ballistic fingerprint changes. Let’s keep current.

3. 3. You insure them for liability

a. How? Just like your car or your boat. If it can harm people, you need to be insured against claims. If you have other assets you know how this works.
b. Why? I suspect that if someone is fixing to shoot someone and knows that he’ll be found liable because it is his firearm, he might just kick the guys ass instead. If his firearm goes missing, he’ll report it stolen so he can waive liability PDQ.

4. You keep your home defense weapons at home

a. Why? I have no problem with a guy having a pistol or shotgun to defend his abode. I get nervous when a guy with a pistol takes it out with him to give him courage.
b. If you are a jewel dealer or security operator, sure, you can bring your home defense system with you. With insurance costs and such it might just be cheaper to hire a bodyguard. I dunno, but I don’t want oblivious people wandering around posing as responsible gun owners because they are paranoid.

5. If your insurance or registration lapses, you have to turn your firearm in to the local militia.

a. Yeah, if you’re an irresponsible gun owner, you should not keep guns. Even the most ardent NRA guy agrees with this.

6. You pay a steep tax on bullets you bring home.

a. Bullets you shoot at the range or during militia (club) training are tax free, but bullets you bring home or buy online have a dollar-apiece tax. The underlying cost of the projectile is more, too, as
b. the bullet manufacturer has liability if the bullet is sold to an owner of an unregistered weapon. This should increase the customer oversight from the bullet manufacturers

7. If you shoot a bad guy in your home, using a properly registered and fully licensed firearm, no one will confiscate your firearm or drag you though the mud more than if you had stabbed him. Firearms as a home defense option are respected option.

If you want to be a good guy with military Firearms


1. You register your military weapon

a. How? The ballistic fingerprint of each of your guns needs to be registered with your local police through your local militia (club), and State and National law enforcement needs to have access to this
b. Why? Because when a bullet is found lodged in someone, or casings are found near where he was shot, the police should have a way to find out who shot him. Shooting people should not be a Constitutionally protected pass-time.

2. You re-license them periodically

a. How? Confirming the ballistic fingerprint. It’s like registering your car periodically. Cost of having an appliance that can actually kill people
b. Why? With frequent usage, a ballistic fingerprint changes. Let’s keep current

3. You insure them for liability

a. How? Just like your car or your boat. If it can harm people, you need to be insured against claims.
b. Why? I suspect that if someone is fixing to shoot someone and knows that he’ll be found liable because it is his firearm, he might just kick the guys ass. If his firearm goes missing, he’ll report it stolen so he can waive liability PDQ.

4. You keep your military firearm at a licensed gun club sponsored by your local militia

a. We need some sort of oversight. But not government oversight. Responsible oversight by the local responsible gun owners is less objectionable than Federal oversight.
b. I’d rather have a board of local firearm aficionados disarm a group of evil-doers than a crew of federal agents. Keep it local. If oversight lags, the local militia is by default responsible and after their insurance pays out, their premiums will rise and the club fees go up and their officials may have to be recycled. Nobody wants higher fees. No official wants to get recycled.

5. You pay a steep tax on bullets you bring home.

a. Bullets you shoot at the range or during militia (club) training are tax free, but bullets you bring home or buy online have a dollar-apiece tax. The underlying cost of the projectile is more, too, as
b. the bullet manufacturer has liability if the bullet is sold to an owner of an unregistered weapon. This should increase the customer oversight from the bullet manufacturers

If you are a bad guy who uses guns:


a) Whenever someone is shot by an unregistered weapons, the full weight of the State and Federal law enforcement assets are brought in.
b) Any ‘understanding’ you have with local cops and legislators no longer matters.
c) Your operation, if you are also a bad guy commercially, is likely to be compromised.
d) Your financial assets are impounded and made available to the courts.
e) Using an unregistered firearm to shoot someone puts you in jeopardy of RICO prosecution
f) Your local militia is interrogated as to why they didn’t register your operation as an exempt group. Or register you. Now you have responsible gun owners and probably the NRA asking questions along with the law enforcement teams.

If you are a good guy who objects to the oversight:

a. Your local militia (gun club) is tasked with bringing you to heel. This is not much different than your local NHRA rep refusing to let you run a Stock Demon on a sanctioned DragStrip. If your car runs the quarter in under 10 - you need a roll cage. If you have a civilian weapon - you need to register it.
b. At least the first line of inquiry is not the government or some NGO like “Moms of School Shootings”.
c. Will this work? Well, the Porn industry, which has the First Amendment as umbrella cover, went ahead and ‘self regulated’ to keep Gummint regulators from stepping in. The ammo-sexuals need to see the handwriting on the wall, and re-establish Militias to regulate responsible gun hobbyists.

Who pays for all of this? Well, the responsible gun owners end up paying for it all, right? But I’ll bet that the taxpayers will be happy to write a big check to help make this shooting nightmare go away. Let’s pass a bill that:


1. Establishes and funds a ‘Local Militia’ in every community of 100,000 or so. This includes a free shooting range, tax-exempt bullets to shoot, a registration facility, a Military Firearm storage facility (armory), a computerized registration system, and a paid board along with salaried managers.

a. This militia is responsible for registering and accounting for every firearm in their district. Military Firearms must be kept at the militia armory. Owners who refuse to comply with the Militias directives must be referred to government authorities. The militia is to be the voice of responsible gun owners.
b. The militias fixed costs are covered by a legislated federal bill
c. Unaffiliated local dealers may remain open, of course, but must comply with Militia directives as per sales registration and licensing of all weapons in inventory. License transfers are monitored by the Militia Board.
d. A local militia must be responsible for (and insured against)

i. All firearms in their district
ii. All gun shows in their district
iii. Unlicensed weapons in their district
iv. Un-taxed ammo sales in their district

e. Insurance costs are covered by member fees.

2. If society crumbles then the Militia may release all armory weapons to members in good standing to resist, defend, or whatever. If society hasn’t crumbled after all, the insurance policies of the Militia and the individual members who went out and shot people will cover liabilities and the premiums. As well militia dues, will have to go up to cover the costs. People who drop off the rolls will be investigated.

3. If a militia member (by default, a gun owner or people with access to their weapons) starts to go off the rails, The Militia brass must disclose this to the government authorities. Such disclosure will trigger investigations, but will transfer liability from the militia to the individual member.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I actually thought about this a little bit:

If you want to be a good guy with a civilian firearm:

1. You register your civilian ‘home defense’ weapon(s)

a. How? The ballistic fingerprint of each of your guns needs to be registered with your local police through your local militia (club), and State and National law enforcement needs to have access to this
b. Why? Because when a bullet is found lodged in someone, or casings are found near where he was shot, the police should have a way to find out who shot him. Shooting people should not be a Constitutionally protected pastime.
c. Isn’t that expensive? Yup. But it is the cost of separating the responsible gun owners from the nuts with guns.

2. You re-license them periodically

a. How? Confirming the ballistic fingerprint. It’s like registering your car periodically. This is the cost of having an appliance that can actually kill people
b. Why? With frequent usage, a ballistic fingerprint changes. Let’s keep current.

3. 3. You insure them for liability

a. How? Just like your car or your boat. If it can harm people, you need to be insured against claims. If you have other assets you know how this works.
b. Why? I suspect that if someone is fixing to shoot someone and knows that he’ll be found liable because it is his firearm, he might just kick the guys ass instead. If his firearm goes missing, he’ll report it stolen so he can waive liability PDQ.

4. You keep your home defense weapons at home

a. Why? I have no problem with a guy having a pistol or shotgun to defend his abode. I get nervous when a guy with a pistol takes it out with him to give him courage.
b. If you are a jewel dealer or security operator, sure, you can bring your home defense system with you. With insurance costs and such it might just be cheaper to hire a bodyguard. I dunno, but I don’t want oblivious people wandering around posing as responsible gun owners because they are paranoid.

5. If your insurance or registration lapses, you have to turn your firearm in to the local militia.

a. Yeah, if you’re an irresponsible gun owner, you should not keep guns. Even the most ardent NRA guy agrees with this.

6. You pay a steep tax on bullets you bring home.

a. Bullets you shoot at the range or during militia (club) training are tax free, but bullets you bring home or buy online have a dollar-apiece tax. The underlying cost of the projectile is more, too, as
b. the bullet manufacturer has liability if the bullet is sold to an owner of an unregistered weapon. This should increase the customer oversight from the bullet manufacturers

7. If you shoot a bad guy in your home, using a properly registered and fully licensed firearm, no one will confiscate your firearm or drag you though the mud more than if you had stabbed him. Firearms as a home defense option are respected option.

If you want to be a good guy with military Firearms


1. You register your military weapon

a. How? The ballistic fingerprint of each of your guns needs to be registered with your local police through your local militia (club), and State and National law enforcement needs to have access to this
b. Why? Because when a bullet is found lodged in someone, or casings are found near where he was shot, the police should have a way to find out who shot him. Shooting people should not be a Constitutionally protected pass-time.

2. You re-license them periodically

a. How? Confirming the ballistic fingerprint. It’s like registering your car periodically. Cost of having an appliance that can actually kill people
b. Why? With frequent usage, a ballistic fingerprint changes. Let’s keep current

3. You insure them for liability

a. How? Just like your car or your boat. If it can harm people, you need to be insured against claims.
b. Why? I suspect that if someone is fixing to shoot someone and knows that he’ll be found liable because it is his firearm, he might just kick the guys ass. If his firearm goes missing, he’ll report it stolen so he can waive liability PDQ.

4. You keep your military firearm at a licensed gun club sponsored by your local militia

a. We need some sort of oversight. But not government oversight. Responsible oversight by the local responsible gun owners is less objectionable than Federal oversight.
b. I’d rather have a board of local firearm aficionados disarm a group of evil-doers than a crew of federal agents. Keep it local. If oversight lags, the local militia is by default responsible and after their insurance pays out, their premiums will rise and the club fees go up and their officials may have to be recycled. Nobody wants higher fees. No official wants to get recycled.

5. You pay a steep tax on bullets you bring home.

a. Bullets you shoot at the range or during militia (club) training are tax free, but bullets you bring home or buy online have a dollar-apiece tax. The underlying cost of the projectile is more, too, as
b. the bullet manufacturer has liability if the bullet is sold to an owner of an unregistered weapon. This should increase the customer oversight from the bullet manufacturers

If you are a bad guy who uses guns:


a) Whenever someone is shot by an unregistered weapons, the full weight of the State and Federal law enforcement assets are brought in.
b) Any ‘understanding’ you have with local cops and legislators no longer matters.
c) Your operation, if you are also a bad guy commercially, is likely to be compromised.
d) Your financial assets are impounded and made available to the courts.
e) Using an unregistered firearm to shoot someone puts you in jeopardy of RICO prosecution
f) Your local militia is interrogated as to why they didn’t register your operation as an exempt group. Or register you. Now you have responsible gun owners and probably the NRA asking questions along with the law enforcement teams.

If you are a good guy who objects to the oversight:

a. Your local militia (gun club) is tasked with bringing you to heel. This is not much different than your local NHRA rep refusing to let you run a Stock Demon on a sanctioned DragStrip. If your car runs the quarter in under 10 - you need a roll cage. If you have a civilian weapon - you need to register it.
b. At least the first line of inquiry is not the government or some NGO like “Moms of School Shootings”.
c. Will this work? Well, the Porn industry, which has the First Amendment as umbrella cover, went ahead and ‘self regulated’ to keep Gummint regulators from stepping in. The ammo-sexuals need to see the handwriting on the wall, and re-establish Militias to regulate responsible gun hobbyists.

Who pays for all of this? Well, the responsible gun owners end up paying for it all, right? But I’ll bet that the taxpayers will be happy to write a big check to help make this shooting nightmare go away. Let’s pass a bill that:


1. Establishes and funds a ‘Local Militia’ in every community of 100,000 or so. This includes a free shooting range, tax-exempt bullets to shoot, a registration facility, a Military Firearm storage facility (armory), a computerized registration system, and a paid board along with salaried managers.

a. This militia is responsible for registering and accounting for every firearm in their district. Military Firearms must be kept at the militia armory. Owners who refuse to comply with the Militias directives must be referred to government authorities. The militia is to be the voice of responsible gun owners.
b. The militias fixed costs are covered by a legislated federal bill
c. Unaffiliated local dealers may remain open, of course, but must comply with Militia directives as per sales registration and licensing of all weapons in inventory. License transfers are monitored by the Militia Board.
d. A local militia must be responsible for (and insured against)

i. All firearms in their district
ii. All gun shows in their district
iii. Unlicensed weapons in their district
iv. Un-taxed ammo sales in their district

e. Insurance costs are covered by member fees.

2. If society crumbles then the Militia may release all armory weapons to members in good standing to resist, defend, or whatever. If society hasn’t crumbled after all, the insurance policies of the Militia and the individual members who went out and shot people will cover liabilities and the premiums. As well militia dues, will have to go up to cover the costs. People who drop off the rolls will be investigated.

3. If a militia member (by default, a gun owner or people with access to their weapons) starts to go off the rails, The Militia brass must disclose this to the government authorities. Such disclosure will trigger investigations, but will transfer liability from the militia to the individual member.

Works for me.

[3rdPersonPlural]

Typical, you haven't had time to read it.

Will this piss off the ammo-sexuals more than the abolitionists? My idea was to dissapoint everyone, which is the mark of good legislation....

[LandM]

TLD,
THE OSU - man they are as bad as ND - I always thought it was funny to use the "THE" in front of the schools name . Does Hopkins do that

GG,
The only sane one in the list you sent seems to be the LV guy and obviously that did not come true.As I have stated, most gun owners are not opposed to longer background checks; a welfare check; and the government making family members more accessible to mental health issues for relatives. Do those three and you probably could cut down on the issue. The AR is nothing more, IMHO, then a weapon used as it does not have the means to fire itself alone.

[Typical Lax Dad]

TLD,
THE OSU - man they are as bad as ND - I always thought it was funny to use the "THE" in front of the schools name . Does Hopkins do that

GG,
The only sane one in the list you sent seems to be the LV guy and obviously that did not come true.As I have stated, most gun owners are not opposed to longer background checks; a welfare check; and the government making family members more accessible to mental health issues for relatives. Do those three and you probably could cut down on the issue. The AR is nothing more, IMHO, then a weapon used as it does not have the means to fire itself alone.

It’s in the original legislation which established the School. THE OHIO ... State University!!

“the university was originally known as the Ohio Agricultural and Mechanical College. The college originally focused on various agricultural and mechanical disciplines but it developed into a comprehensive university under the direction of then-Governor (later, U.S. President) Rutherford B. Hayes, and in 1878 the Ohio General Assembly passed a law changing the name to "The Ohio State University".[5] “

This is what we do!


Go ‘Bucks!! One of theses kids was a Nittany Lion.

[LandM]

TLD,
Thanks for the education. We are thinking of going to the game this year. Funny story, we drive to Columbus for the game, arrive late and since I stayed in allot of Marriott's we get the suite (pure luck) - serious views. My wife gets up early to go to the gym and smacks right into Tressel. Had we been PSU spies we could have had breakfast with the team and gotten at least there first 10 to 15 snaps and coded them over to PSU as the breakfast was right across the hall and the door was wide open

PSU cheer I always thought was silly but then you understand the meaning behind it and I feel silly. I have a bad habit of putting size 10's in my mouth

[Typical Lax Dad]

TLD,
Thanks for the education. We are thinking of going to the game this year. Funny story, we drive to Columbus for the game, arrive late and since I stayed in allot of Marriott's we get the suite (pure luck) - serious views. My wife gets up early to go to the gym and smacks right into Tressel. Had we been PSU spies we could have had breakfast with the team and gotten at least there first 10 to 15 snaps and coded them over to PSU as the breakfast was right across the hall and the door was wide open

PSU cheer I always thought was silly but then you understand the meaning behind it and I feel silly. I have a bad habit of putting size 10's in my mouth

Those players on Monday night football didn’t start “The” Ohio State University after all! Watched OSU vs PSU at a bar down the street last fall if not the prior year. I was the only OSU fan in the place. It was PSU Fan Night! It was a white out. They were so loud until OSU won the game at the end! It was priceless.

[LandM]

It would have been last year - PSU ran out of gas in a few games and that was one;
The prior home PSU game was the blocked field goal that PSU ran back for a TD - watching Urban Meyers face - now that was priceless.......
PSU then goes and wins the B1G yet OSU goes to the final 4 - best part is Urban Meyer quote, "if you cannot win your conference you should not be allowed to play in final 4".
Should be a good game this year.