Sensible Gun Safety

[RedFromMI]

Just think how bad things would be in places like Chicago if you could just bring in firearms across state lines from the anything goes states. Good thing our state borders are heavily fortified with welcome centers.

You know, if they did not have those gun checkpoints at the Indiana border just think of the smuggling that could occur...

[ggait]

They also don't use clips. Basic facts will help your cause.

I know the difference between a clip and a magazine. But thanks for your pointless comment.

Do you know the difference between a firearm that is the weapon of choice for mass murderers vs. the ones that are not?

Poway: AR-15
Aurora: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

Apparently not Holmes. Basic facts seem to not be your core competency.

[ggait]

Just think how bad things would be in places like Chicago if you could just bring in firearms across state lines from the anything goes states. Good thing our state borders are heavily fortified with welcome centers.

Well there was also that BS meddling in Chicago's internal affairs by Justice Alito following the lead of departed Justice Scalia's FUBAR opinion in Heller (i.e. McDonald vs. City of Chicago). Which was an attempt to get a handle on hand guns, after all.

Collective right? Bahahahahahahaha. Just constitutionally as dumb and made up as abortion rights in the penumbras and emanations of the Constitution.

"The Gun Lobby’s interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime." Warren Burger, Conservative Supreme Court Chief Justice 1991.

I thought conservative judges liked federalism? Let Chicago run Chicago, DC run DC, and Kansas run Kansas.

[foreverlax]

...and let McConnell run DC.

"I said a few weeks ago that if the President took a position on a bill so that we knew we would actually be making a law and not just having serial votes, I would be happy to put it on the floor and the administration is in the process of studying what they are prepared to support if anything," McConnell said on the radio program.

Guess he forgets that there is such a thing as over-riding a veto. Mitch may be surprised at his final resting place.

[holmes435]

They also don't use clips. Basic facts will help your cause.

I know the difference between a clip and a magazine. But thanks for your pointless comment.

Do you know the difference between a firearm that is the weapon of choice for mass murderers vs. the ones that are not?

Poway: AR-15
Aurora: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

Apparently not Holmes. Basic facts seem to not be your core competency.

If you're going to have a debate, knowing simple terms and using them correctly is extremely important. If you start off a debate getting simple facts wrong, like terminology, it's tough to make other people take you seriously. While you may know the difference even if you didn't use the term correctly, tons of lawmakers and people have no clue about simple firearm functionality.

You're still chasing small potatoes with AR's - those mass shootings with ARs are less than 1% of gun deaths this year. You're losing independent votes by chasing non-common sense gun legislation that has little to no effect on overall violent crime rates.

Why not tackle the root causes of suicides, mass shootings, and more? With the proper legislation, you could make huge strides in reducing gun deaths (including mass shootings) without touching anyone's guns.

[ggait]

You're still chasing small potatoes with AR's - those mass shootings with ARs are less than 1% of gun deaths this year.

There's several different flavors of this problem, Holmes. Mass shootings are diff than suicides. Suicides are diff than inner city gang shootings. Terrorist shootings (Islamic, White Nationalist or otherwise) are diff than school shootings. We ALL know that.

So your cause is not helped by pretending that you are the only guy who knows the duh obvious stuff. And please tell what your suggested solutions to hand gun related issues are if you want to ignore MSSA weapons. We're all ears. And before you say "mental health" or "video games", let's agree that video games and crazy people are everywhere -- there not just in the U.S. So what you got?

It is duh obvious that a variety of measures would be needed to address a variety of problems.

We had a ban on MSSA weapons from 94-04. We'd be better off today if that had been left in place rather than dumbly letting that particular toothpaste out of the tube again. Hell -- even Reagan supported that ban! Folks still had easy access to guns during those ten years. Out here in CO we banned HCMs several years ago. Amazingly, the sun has continued to rise every day since. And there's still happy shooters and hunters in large quantities out here -- as can be observed any day at a Cabela's or Sportsman's Warehouse location. Which are everywhere around here.

[kramerica.inc]

Political will.
There is no political will to fix the problem on either side. If there was, it would be done by now.
The politicians on the right like their money from the NRA and the politicians on the left like keeping the urban populations needy and desperate.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Oh well:

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/03/us/ala ... cnn.com%2F

[LandM]

GG,
What percent of shooting deaths are caused by an AR?
What percent of deaths are caused by mass shootings?
What percent of the mass shooters using an AR were mental and needed help?
Address the real issue. Mental health is a real problem in this country.

What percent of inter city deaths are handgun related?
What percent of inter city deaths are gang related?

What percent of guns come from across the border?

Free college - for every year it is one year in peace corp or one year teaching and mentoring inner city kids. Masters requires working and aiding mental health issues. Seems fair.

[a fan]

We had a ban on MSSA weapons from 94-04. We'd be better off today if that had been left in place rather than dumbly letting that particular toothpaste out of the tube again. Hell -- even Reagan supported that ban! Folks still had easy access to guns during those ten years. Out here in CO we banned HCMs several years ago. Amazingly, the sun has continued to rise every day since. And there's still happy shooters and hunters in large quantities out here -- as can be observed any day at a Cabela's or Sportsman's Warehouse location. Which are everywhere around here.

I've never understood why the NRA and others are so reticent to reduce how many rounds a gun can hold.

As a young hunter, even showing up with a pump shotgun was considered weak sauce, and lazy hunting..... proof you were a hack who couldn't shoot straight. Be a man, and hit what you're shooting at was the message I got. I never used more than an over under breach load.

Learn to shoot correctly, was the answer to having fewer rounds available. (and no, I didn't hit much! )

[MDlaxfan76]

Political will.
There is no political will to fix the problem on either side. If there was, it would be done by now.
The politicians on the right like their money from the NRA and the politicians on the left like keeping the urban populations needy and desperate.

geez, the latter part seems ridiculously cynical to me.

Not that the left has done all they could to combat urban violence, but wow, now they don't want gun legislation because they want folks to kill each other, be 'needy and desperate'? That dog don't hunt.

But then again, I don't think guns are the whole problem with urban violence. Much bigger factor is fighting over drug turf. Absent decriminalization I don't think 'sensible gun control' would be sufficient, even at the national level. It would require total gun confiscation and that ain't happening.

I do agree that this requires bi-partisan action, with Presidential support, in order to overcome various obstacles. It needs to be national not local,

[Typical Lax Dad]

Other countries don’t have crazy folk.

[MDlaxfan76]

We had a ban on MSSA weapons from 94-04. We'd be better off today if that had been left in place rather than dumbly letting that particular toothpaste out of the tube again. Hell -- even Reagan supported that ban! Folks still had easy access to guns during those ten years. Out here in CO we banned HCMs several years ago. Amazingly, the sun has continued to rise every day since. And there's still happy shooters and hunters in large quantities out here -- as can be observed any day at a Cabela's or Sportsman's Warehouse location. Which are everywhere around here.

I've never understood why the NRA and others are so reticent to reduce how many rounds a gun can hold.

As a young hunter, even showing up with a pump shotgun was considered weak sauce, and lazy hunting..... proof you were a hack who couldn't shoot straight. Be a man, and hit what you're shooting at was the message I got. I never used more than an over under breach load.

Learn to shoot correctly, was the answer to having fewer rounds available. (and no, I didn't hit much! )

Depends on whether you're hunting upland game versus wildfowl. More than two shots is unlikely to be much help when a quail covey breaks!

But when the ducks are swarming, potential different story.

I'm exclusively a light side by side guy for upland game, have used a pump or automatic with wildfowl and certainly never heard anyone be critical! Nothing wrong with an over and under, of course, and indeed it puts a premium on hitting what you aim at! And indeed, most of the time, two shots should be sufficient. Pretty darn rare to pull a triple!

I'm not a big game hunter, but it certainly always seemed ridiculous to me that anyone needs more than a single shot loaded when using any sort of rifle. It's not like you pump multiple rounds into the game as it runs if your first shot doesn't bring it down. Shooting multiple rounds would hugely increase the chances of hitting something inadvertently, beyond the target. Very scary stuff to me as someone who has heard deer running in the woods and then a shot whistle near our heads...knuckleheads!

The only argument I might imagine would be in facing a predator like a bear who might well need more than a single shot when charging. Protection being the priority. Maybe a half dozen at most because you're done for with more shots anyway. But otherwise, what the heck!

[MDlaxfan76]

GG,
What percent of shooting deaths are caused by an AR?
What percent of deaths are caused by mass shootings?
What percent of the mass shooters using an AR were mental and needed help?
Address the real issue. Mental health is a real problem in this country.

What percent of inter city deaths are handgun related?
What percent of inter city deaths are gang related?

What percent of guns come from across the border?

Free college - for every year it is one year in peace corp or one year teaching and mentoring inner city kids. Masters requires working and aiding mental health issues. Seems fair.

So, take them separately LandM. It needn't be a one size fits all question.

But sure, if we want to dramatically reduce mass shootings, need to limit access to weapons that kill fast and furiously. Also should look at mental health, but that's never going to be sufficient.

Urban gang violence is a different problem, so deal with it differently.

[Typical Lax Dad]

GG,
What percent of shooting deaths are caused by an AR?
What percent of deaths are caused by mass shootings?
What percent of the mass shooters using an AR were mental and needed help?
Address the real issue. Mental health is a real problem in this country.

What percent of inter city deaths are handgun related?
What percent of inter city deaths are gang related?

What percent of guns come from across the border?

Free college - for every year it is one year in peace corp or one year teaching and mentoring inner city kids. Masters requires working and aiding mental health issues. Seems fair.

So, take them separately LandM. It needn't be a one size fits all question.

But sure, if we want to dramatically reduce mass shootings, need to limit access to weapons that kill fast and furiously. Also should look at mental health, but that's never going to be sufficient.

Urban gang violence is a different problem, so deal with it differently.

Guns and 17, 18, 19 year old adolescents is a bad mix. Can’t rent a car or book a hotel room at that age. Reduce the supply and change the culture. We did it with drinking and driving. I won’t happen overnight.

[ggait]

Mental health is a real problem in this country.

Nonsense. Lame cop out response, LandM!!

The U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on crazy people. Crazy people are a problem everywhere. Also, the DATA shows that mentally ill people are statistically less likely to be violent than sane people and more likely to be victims than perps.

Also, what exactly would you propose to do about the crazy people? Like the poor, I suspect they always will be with us.

But if you have a proposed solution for the crazies, LandM, let's hear it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Oh well:

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/lo ... PQkrsoMMO/

[LandM]

GG,
Will respectfully disagree on the lame cop out. Someone who has little to no experience can use an AR and spray away. They have no idea what they are doing. If your metric is kill ratio (I do not mean that to be offensive nor imply I do not care) many of us would be much more lethal with a handgun. Either way, IMHO, it goes back to background checks, family involvement and perhaps a follow-on check every few years - I do not know anyone who would object to that. Come see how 95% of responsible and rationale people handle them, you might change your mind. BTW, I deal with two bi-polar relatives - sad and not much we can do as it is government regulated.

TLD,
NOT to be snooty but our three houses are in Canandaigua, NY; Telluride, CO; and an inlet in MS. The home on wheels we have decided is now PSU football only . Any of those 4 venues that number 1 crime is DUI. At PSU they have banned frats from open parties - so guess what the college kids did, moved them to downtown - it is a madhouse down there on both Friday and Saturday. Maybe DUI's are down but Uber and Lyft are having a field day.

[Typical Lax Dad]

GG,
Will respectfully disagree on the lame cop out. Someone who has little to no experience can use an AR and spray away. They have no idea what they are doing. If your metric is kill ratio (I do not mean that to be offensive nor imply I do not care) many of us would be much more lethal with a handgun. Either way, IMHO, it goes back to background checks, family involvement and perhaps a follow-on check every few years - I do not know anyone who would object to that. Come see how 95% of responsible and rationale people handle them, you might change your mind. BTW, I deal with two bi-polar relatives - sad and not much we can do as it is government regulated.

TLD,
NOT to be snooty but our three houses are in Canandaigua, NY; Telluride, CO; and an inlet in MS. The home on wheels we have decided is now PSU football only . Any of those 4 venues that number 1 crime is DUI. At PSU they have banned frats from open parties - so guess what the college kids did, moved them to downtown - it is a madhouse down there on both Friday and Saturday. Maybe DUI's are down but Uber and Lyft are having a field day.

This is what I am talking about!! Go ' Bucks!


This is how we do! We don't display no stink "M" in this town!

[ggait]

GG,
Will respectfully disagree on the lame cop out. Someone who has little to no experience can use an AR and spray away. They have no idea what they are doing. If your metric is kill ratio (I do not mean that to be offensive nor imply I do not care) many of us would be much more lethal with a handgun.

LandM -- you're totally making my point. Any person can do crazy lethal damage in no time flat with an AR-15. Dayton shooter killed 9 people in under 30 seconds. Seems like a pretty high kill ratio to me.

He wasn't Rambo or MacGyver. He had no military, law enforcement or weapons training. NFW some untrained and inexperienced random dude can do that with a lesser weapon. Do you really disagree with this?

Sure a military vet with serious hardware skills and resources can always get around a particular weapons ban. But come on. The only enabling skill most of these shooters have is the ability to drive their car over to a local strip mall.