"The Deep State" aka the American Intelligence Community

[MDlaxfan76]

MD,
As much as people try and make me a partisan, I am not rule of law in certain cases guilty as charged.

The Russian thing is old and tiring. He is never going to jail and there was enough there is no there - even Bruce Ohr stated that.

What are you hoping to accomplish by keeping the pedal to the metal. Seems like intent is the word of the week what do you hope to accomplish. To me it was the Apple Dumpling gang probably knew the rules better. Tough to prosecute stupid. So what is your and others angle? Create more divided politics? To me and many in the vast country you guys are the Apple Dumpling gang. Btw that was a great movie.

Hi LandM,
I can't decipher your first sentence.
Perhaps you dropped some words?

Sorry you find the Russian interference and kompromat effort "old and tiring".
But I googled Bruce Our and anything he might have said akin to what you suggest and I find quite the opposite. I think you are solely referring to Strozk's text. Of course, I could be wrong so feel free to provide a link to a credible source.

This idea that those who find the Russian matter, and all of Trump's lies in that regard, and those of his various cronies, are interested in being 'divisive' or fostering 'divided politics' is really appalling. Apparently we need to get in line with Der Leader, forgive any and all past transgressions, else we're being "divisive" or in favor of "divided politics"?

Maybe you would want to call me Un-American next?
Trump's gone that route, so will you too? Hope not.

You must be a bit younger than me as I had to look up the movie to even have a clue as to what you were referring. I was pretty done with Bill Bixby and Don Knotts and 'family friendly Disney movies' around age 10-12, which was in the late 60's. didn't return to Disney until the 90's when my son was growing up. Tim Conway and Carol Burnett and crew were hysterical at all ages!

[Typical Lax Dad]

MD,
As much as people try and make me a partisan, I am not rule of law in certain cases guilty as charged.

The Russian thing is old and tiring. He is never going to jail and there was enough there is no there - even Bruce Ohr stated that.

What are you hoping to accomplish by keeping the pedal to the metal. Seems like intent is the word of the week what do you hope to accomplish. To me it was the Apple Dumpling gang probably knew the rules better. Tough to prosecute stupid. So what is your and others angle? Create more divided politics? To me and many in the vast country you guys are the Apple Dumpling gang. Btw that was a great movie.

Hi LandM,
I can't decipher your first sentence.
Perhaps you dropped some words?

Sorry you find the Russian interference and kompromat effort "old and tiring".
But I googled Bruce Our and anything he might have said akin to what you suggest and I find quite the opposite. I think you are solely referring to Strozk's text. Of course, I could be wrong so feel free to provide a link to a credible source.

This idea that those who find the Russian matter, and all of Trump's lies in that regard, and those of his various cronies, are interested in being 'divisive' or fostering 'divided politics' is really appalling. Apparently we need to get in line with Der Leader, forgive any and all past transgressions, else we're being "divisive" or in favor of "divided politics"?

Maybe you would want to call me Un-American next?
Trump's gone that route, so will you too? Hope not.

You must be a bit younger than me as I had to look up the movie to even have a clue as to what you were referring. I was pretty done with Bill Bixby and Don Knotts and 'family friendly Disney movies' around age 10-12, which was in the late 60's. didn't return to Disney until the 90's when my son was growing up. Tim Conway and Carol Burnett and crew were hysterical at all ages!

SORRY!!! My sister and I loved that skit!!

[a fan]

MD,
As much as people try and make me a partisan, I am not rule of law in certain cases guilty as charged.

The Russian thing is old and tiring. He is never going to jail and there was enough there is no there - even Bruce Ohr stated that.

What are you hoping to accomplish by keeping the pedal to the metal. Seems like intent is the word of the week what do you hope to accomplish?

The same exact thing that the Republicans accomplished by keeping Benghazi and eventually Hillary's server in the news during the entire election cycle.

Is Hillary President, or home watching it all on TV with the rest American?

Scoreboard says to do it.

[old salt]

Yeah, keep flogging that Russia-gate dead horse. It's a real winner.
It has been so discredited, the desperate (D)'s are switching to bimbo payoffs. ..
How's Avenatti's Presidential campaign going ?

[a fan]

That's the same thing the Dems said about Benghazi and emails. Big mistake.

As for my opinion...unless the Dems can put up someone that will increase voter turnout, it doesn't matter what they say or do.

[LandM]

MD/afan,
I was typing on my cell - never a good thing with fat thumbs
I am not calling either of you un-American and no I am not following Dear Leader, and no I am not questioning anyone's right to speak their mind, so hopefully we can put that hyperbole to rest. What I am saying is allot of people in the heartland have had enough, there done, so are voters like myself. This to me is about news organizations making a buck now. When DT leaves office and he will, the press is going to lose allot of revenue.

Mueller found no Russian collusion. Full stop. Did a meeting occur in Trump Towers - yep. The Trump family, who were not politicians heard - "hey we have dirt on Clinton" - they took the meeting. The same lawyer called Fusion GPS and said "hey we have dirt on Trump" - HRC who has been a career politician was smart enough to stay clear.....the Trumps who are not, fell for the bait. I know that anyone can sue anyone over a ham sandwich but good luck on convicting intent and stupid.

When are you all gonna get mad about a Brit and Aussie? My neighbors in Canandaigua are Brits - they are even embarrassed about the Steele role and both of them are MD's. Like Benghazi, at some point you gotta raise the white flag.

Tim Conway was awesome - my dad came to my high school graduation which was cool then we got into car - head to Reno as my favorite comedian at that time was Red Skeleton - he had bought tickets for one of his shows - making up for lost time.

[MDlaxfan76]

Yeah, keep flogging that Russia-gate dead horse. It's a real winner.
It has been so discredited, the desperate (D)'s are switching to bimbo payoffs. ..
How's Avenatti's Presidential campaign going ?

I wish it never happened.
But then again, I wish a lot of things were different.

But no, it's not been "discredited" beyond the 40% of Americans who are hard line Trumpists.
As you've described it, "Mueller didn't deliver the 'kill shot' ". True.
But Trump's lying and corruption were exposed, and will continue to be exposed again and again and again.
A fan is correct that, as a political matter, it will be effective. And should be effective IMO.
We can blame the Dems and the MSM, but I really don't find anyone to 'blame' other than the corrupt, dishonest man himself.

Just watched Jim Mattis on Morning Joe. Long segment.
The contrast between a leader like Mattis and the jerk in the White House could not be more stark.

I respect Mattis' choice to honor the tradition of Generals not criticizing their Commander in Chief, and would hope I'd take the same position were I in his shoes, but this should not apply to those engaged in the political fray, including voters discussing issues and leadership of the country. That said, his quoting of Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural, "With Malice Toward None, With Charity For All" as inscribed at the Lincoln Memorial was a moving appeal for finding common purpose collectively as Americans was a poignant reminder of how we should treat one another.

But this requires leadership, beginning with the White House, to appeal to our common purpose, with respect for those who disagree on issues. And it needs to be met with leadership at every level of society who call for these principles, and live them in their own lives and leadership style.

Mattis makes the point that the 'problem' didn't begin with this President. That's correct. But I think we do need a President who will reorient the country's tone to one of respect for one another. One for whom integrity and honesty are core principles. One who can empathize with those who are in pain and need. He/she needn't be 'perfect'. No one is. But they need to exemplify these core principles.

Where I would agree with you, Salty, in some of your posts, has been your challenge that we need to better understand those who have different views, not demonize or dismiss them. I'm not sure I can really do so with the most virulent racists, etc, in this moment, but it's indeed an interesting aspiration. Likewise, those who dismiss the left as "socialists" or yell about "antics" or "black on black violence" or... whatever any label or accusation might want to re-think their dismissal and disrespect.

[MDlaxfan76]

MD/afan,
I was typing on my cell - never a good thing with fat thumbs
I am not calling either of you un-American and no I am not following Dear Leader, and no I am not questioning anyone's right to speak their mind, so hopefully we can put that hyperbole to rest. What I am saying is allot of people in the heartland have had enough, there done, so are voters like myself. This to me is about news organizations making a buck now. When DT leaves office and he will, the press is going to lose allot of revenue.

Mueller found no Russian collusion. Full stop. Did a meeting occur in Trump Towers - yep. The Trump family, who were not politicians heard - "hey we have dirt on Clinton" - they took the meeting. The same lawyer called Fusion GPS and said "hey we have dirt on Trump" - HRC who has been a career politician was smart enough to stay clear.....the Trumps who are not, fell for the bait. I know that anyone can sue anyone over a ham sandwich but good luck on convicting intent and stupid.

When are you all gonna get mad about a Brit and Aussie? My neighbors in Canandaigua are Brits - they are even embarrassed about the Steele role and both of them are MD's. Like Benghazi, at some point you gotta raise the white flag.

Tim Conway was awesome - my dad came to my high school graduation which was cool then we got into car - head to Reno as my favorite comedian at that time was Red Skeleton - he had bought tickets for one of his shows - making up for lost time.

I'm bad on typing on my phone too!
Us old geezers can't get the thumbs to work the way our kids' do.

Yes, I didn't think you would go so far as to call me Un-American. You don't strike me as that sort. But I wanted to make as clear as I could that it's eminently "American" to criticize those in political power, not the other way around.

As I've written multiple times, I quite strongly disagree with your statement that Mueller didn't find "collusion". No, he found lots and lots of "collusion", actual attempts to coordinate activities with the Russians, as well as both private and public welcoming of the Russian interference, and lots and lots of lying about it. I can detail all that again for you, but if you don't want to hear it and just want it to all go away, it's futile to do so.

We also know that Trump and co was actively seeking a huge real estate deal with the Russians, deep into the Campaign, and were lying about it. As they were about lots of prior financial dealings with the Russians.

It's very important to understand that all these lies, known to the Russians, put Trump and his cronies in a compromised position with the Russians. That compromise puts America at risk. Lies about any matter, known to foreign leaders does this. Are there lies about the Saudis? Others?

Sunlight is the only cure for such compromise.

As a political matter, I don't think the GOP ever raised the white flag on Benghazi. Nope, they rode that horse quite hard and IMO it was fundamental to HRC's weakness as a candidate. Lots of other issues, any one of which were probably the difference in those handful of swing states, but that one certainly was fundamental.

[LandM]

MD,
As I posted before, the Russians to my first awareness were in Sunnyvale, CA at the Blue Cube in 1984 - that is when I first learned what bars and places i could go to. It was great though as I got to grow my hair outside of regs and not wear a uniform, too bad Challenger blew. Fast forward 3 years later the same places we took "camping" trips to guess who was right along side us? Those pesky Russians. They have been following us a long time so that is why you get the pushback from some people.

I agree with light, transparency and full disclosure and I agree that the Trumps probably violated every campaign finance law and government regulation in the world but I also understand you have to have intent and you cannot fix nor prosecute the "hey I did not know that" defense. You will have multiple problems suing that ham sandwich and you have Clinton and Comey as a roadmap unfortunately. Meanwhile that E-4 is in a brig with loss of pay and a dishonorable discharge - now that can ruin a persons life.

Trump runs the Presidency like his family business - all his key advisers seem to be family.

I still go back to when is the American voter going to look in the mirror and say they are the problem......do some research, educate yourself and for goodness gracious put people on the ballot that some of us I's can get behind.

[a fan]

What I am saying is allot of people in the heartland have had enough, there done, so are voters like myself. This to me is about news organizations making a buck now. When DT leaves office and he will, the press is going to lose allot of revenue.

First of all, I live in the heartland. I know they are sick of Russia stuff, just as they were sick of Benghazi. Welcome to American politics.

Second of all, the press is going to handle the next President the same way they handled Trump. If it's a D, you don't think FoxNation will go right back to hammering him/her 24/7?

I don't even know who the POTUS will be, but if it's a D, get ready for these phrases "I never thought I'd say this, but I miss Obama". "I didn't think we could get worse than Obama, but here we are". "This is an impeachable offense". "We are witnessing the end of Democracy".

I could go on, but you get the idea. Meet the new Press. Same as the old Press.

[old salt]

Yeah, keep flogging that Russia-gate dead horse. It's a real winner.
It has been so discredited, the desperate (D)'s are switching to bimbo payoffs. ..
How's Avenatti's Presidential campaign going ?

Just watched Jim Mattis on Morning Joe. Long segment.
The contrast between a leader like Mattis and the jerk in the White House could not be more stark.

I respect Mattis' choice to honor the tradition of Generals not criticizing their Commander in Chief, and would hope I'd take the same position were I in his shoes, but this should not apply to those engaged in the political fray, including voters discussing issues and leadership of the country. That said, his quoting of Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural, "With Malice Toward None, With Charity For All" as inscribed at the Lincoln Memorial was a moving appeal for finding common purpose collectively as Americans was a poignant reminder of how we should treat one another.

But this requires leadership, beginning with the White House, to appeal to our common purpose, with respect for those who disagree on issues. And it needs to be met with leadership at every level of society who call for these principles, and live them in their own lives and leadership style.

Mattis makes the point that the 'problem' didn't begin with this President. That's correct. But I think we do need a President who will reorient the country's tone to one of respect for one another. One for whom integrity and honesty are core principles. One who can empathize with those who are in pain and need. He/she needn't be 'perfect'. No one is. But they need to exemplify these core principles.

Where I would agree with you, Salty, in some of your posts, has been your challenge that we need to better understand those who have different views, not demonize or dismiss them. I'm not sure I can really do so with the most virulent racists, etc, in this moment, but it's indeed an interesting aspiration. Likewise, those who dismiss the left as "socialists" or yell about "antics" or "black on black violence" or... whatever any label or accusation might want to re-think their dismissal and disrespect.

I saw that too. I think Mattis makes a convincing case that it's possible to serve Trump, defend Trump, & sometimes give Trump the benefit of the doubt, while continuing to serve the country, without agreeing with everything Trump says or does. Mattis had access & insights that none of us have.

In his resignation letter, Mattis made it clear that he resigned over differences with Trump on the continued support of allies who fought alongside us. In that letter, & now on his book tour, he makes it clear that he did not resign for all the reasons for which you criticize Trump. It's hard to imagine that a patriot of such character would have served so long a CinC who he believed was compromised by the Russians, & then remain silent when given this opportunity to warn the nation of such a threat, ...if it really existed.

[CU88]

Mattis has always wanted payback from the forces n Iraq that kept them from a victory
Obama tied his hands w rules & Trump offered him unrestrained ROE
*that* is why he accepted the post
and when he appeared he could not fulfill that personal objective - he quit

Now crowing about his "breaking point'.

Not Charlottesville.
Not the Muslim ban.
Not ‘invaders’.
Not the open corruption.
Not the non-stop lying.

Mattis is a joke and a coward.

Drain the Miltary Swamp!

[old salt]

Mattis has always wanted payback from the forces n Iraq that kept them from a victory
Obama tied his hands w rules & Trump offered him unrestrained ROE
*that* is why he accepted the post
and when he appeared he could not fulfill that personal objective - he quit

Now crowing about his "breaking point'.

Not Charlottesville.
Not the Muslim ban.
Not ‘invaders’.
Not the open corruption.
Not the non-stop lying.

Mattis is a joke and a coward.

Drain the Miltary Swamp!

.. ...does Putin have kompromat on Mattis too ? I've yet to hear Mattis mention the Russian threat.
He seems obsessed with the terrorist threat. Probably an Islamophobe too.

[foreverlax]

or maybe -

Amanpour presses Mattis: Why didn't you resign when Trump said this?

[ggait]

I saw that too. I think Mattis makes a convincing case that it's possible to serve Trump, defend Trump, & sometimes give Trump the benefit of the doubt, while continuing to serve the country, without agreeing with everything Trump says or does.

That's a pretty strained spin on Mattis' comments. Mattis hasn't once defended Trump, and basically says that he agreed with almost nothing that Trump said or did. He does say he was trying to do his non-partisan job for the country as best he could under the circumstances.

When he interviewed for SecDef with Trump, Mattis says he disagreed with Trump on the three primary issues they discussed. And so was very surprised when he got Trump's nomination. Mattis said he could not have "spoken more loudly" against Trump's administration than what he put in his resignation letter and then quit an unfinished job. As with Robert Mueller, Mattis is asking people to actually read what he wrote -- it's all there in plain view.

While Mattis won't frag Trump (at least for now) he is taking pains to point out that his book reproduces his resignation letter in full. And his leadership book seemingly takes several hundred pages to say basically this -- do the exact opposite of what Trump does.

Mattis thinks it is correct and helpful for him to hold his fire at this point regarding his opinion of Trump -- country over party/politics. But it is loud and clear how low his opinion is of Trump. As has been reported: "of limited cognitive ability, and of generally dubious character." Or as Mattis' ally Tillerson put it more pithily -- "a forking moron."

Put it all together, it is an absolutely devastating critique of Trump but delivered (like Mueller) in such a reserved manner that requires some attention to see what is really being said.

[old salt]

or maybe -

Amanpour presses Mattis: Why didn't you resign when Trump said this?

That just validates what I posted.
The interviewer premised her question that he resigned over Syria.
Mattis did not dispute that.
No mention of Russia.

[old salt]

I saw that too. I think Mattis makes a convincing case that it's possible to serve Trump, defend Trump, & sometimes give Trump the benefit of the doubt, while continuing to serve the country, without agreeing with everything Trump says or does.

That's a pretty strained spin on Mattis' comments. Mattis hasn't once defended Trump, and basically says that he agreed with almost nothing that Trump said or did. He does say he was trying to do his non-partisan job for the country as best he could under the circumstances.

When he interviewed for SecDef with Trump, Mattis says he disagreed with Trump on the three primary issues they discussed. And so was very surprised when he got Trump's nomination. Mattis said he could not have "spoken more loudly" against Trump's administration than what he put in his resignation letter and then quit an unfinished job. As with Robert Mueller, Mattis is asking people to actually read what he wrote -- it's all there in plain view.

While Mattis won't frag Trump (at least for now) he is taking pains to point out that his book reproduces his resignation letter in full. And his leadership book seemingly takes several hundred pages to say basically this -- do the exact opposite of what Trump does.

Mattis thinks it is correct and helpful for him to hold his fire at this point regarding his opinion of Trump -- country over party/politics. But it is loud and clear how low his opinion is of Trump. As has been reported: "of limited cognitive ability, and of generally dubious character." Or as Mattis' ally Tillerson put it more pithily -- "a forking moron."

Put it all together, it is an absolutely devastating critique of Trump but delivered (like Mueller) in such a reserved manner that requires some attention to see what is really being said.

Agree. Listen carefully. In his interviews, has Mattis mentioned Russia or Putin as a threat ? ...their election interference ? ...any suggestion of anything untoward re Trump vis a vis the Russians ? He could convey a lot with just a tangential Russia/Putin reference.

[Trinity]

He’s waiting for McMaster to warn us.

[CU88]

Budget cuts, purge all intelligence agencies and then shut them down!

r's hero o d knows the TRUTH

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
The truth is that we have a nation that is disgusted with the FBI. We have a crisis of confidence in the number one law enforcement agency in this country

DRAIN THE SWAMP MAGA

[foreverlax]

or maybe -

Amanpour presses Mattis: Why didn't you resign when Trump said this?

That just validates what I posted.
The interviewer premised her question that he resigned over Syria.
Mattis did not dispute that.
No mention of Russia.

Points, but not my point. His came and stayed because of his "sense of duty" to the constitution, the "institution", his troops and the elected CiC asked. He didn't say at all why he didn't resign for the myriad of things he that would be justified - he did imply that the he could no longer do those things due to the current political corrosiveness.