Johns Hopkins 2020

[houndace1]

For now, there is no answer in goal. Darby is still around and my guess, given Petro's nature, the starting goalie position is still his to lose. Another goalie, like Giacalone, will likely need to stand on his head to beat Darby out. Maybe the defense answers some questions and gets to average like the offense did last year.

I dunno—Darby getting pulled in the playoff game for Giacalone (who played pretty well, IMO) felt like a changing of the guard. So you've got Giacalone there now with some real, honest-to-goodness game experience, you've got Gainey who came in with some nice accolades last year and has apparently been working really hard this summer at various camps to earn some playing time come spring, and then you've got the freshman Marcille who comes in with a very good reputation. Until the dust settles, sure, the goalie position does not exactly inspire confidence as is, but at least there are options. I wouldn't necessarily pencil Darby in as the starter especially given how the last season ended. As we all know Petro does not pull goalies easily, so when he does it's not insignificant.

The offense was average to say the least last year. There was naturally going to be a step back from 2018 with lots of top offensive players graduating but it was still average, which might have been enough to win another game or two but for the fact the defense was awful. But, the offense still has a ton of questions that need to be answered. The 1st middie production was not good. Hopefully, Smith can keep the momentum from the 2nd half of the year going (when he put up 19 of his 26 points in the last 8 games) but the other two middies need to produce better. You can't get only 4 goals from 1st line middie and expect to be competitive. While Marr didn't have the year he, or us wanted, it is question as to who will be the outside sniper on the team this year and take that 3rd Attackman role. There weren't many snipers last year and one of your best snipers is now gone - until shown otherwise, most opposing defenses will really compact to see if Hopkins can hit any shots from distance.

Over the course of the whole season I think "average" is a fair descriptor but (as you noted with Smith), there was pretty good production toward the end of the year. 16, 12, and 17 goals against conference rivals in the last three games before the Notre Dame debacle. And even in the ND game, 8 of our 9 goals and 12 of our 13 total points came from returning players (6 for Epstein, 3 apiece for Cole and Forry). Freshmen are supposed to hit a wall, but Epstein's production considerably increased over the second half of the season. Zinn was getting more involved, DeSimone was showing signs of a pulse (5 pts in the 3 games before ND). The defense may have been trending downward but I do think the offense was on an upward trajectory, and it's returning 8 of the top 9 scorers, while adding a couple potentially interesting pieces in Angelus, Murphy, etc. Midfield depth is an ongoing issue but I don't think there's much reason to be concerned about overall offensive production. Defense and goaltending is clearly what will decide whether the Jays have any success.

Regarding Forry, i remember in my sophomore year in spring of 2016, IL released an article of players to watch out for, and they compared Forry to be Hopkins' next Ryan Brown in terms of shooting and production... honest question but is there a reason why some players who IL project to be instant playmakers for top schools, seem to fizzle out?

Most of the kids that go to private school reclassify, so when they are on the summer circuit they are a year older, bigger, faster, stronger so they stand out. College everything equals out.

How is reclassifying allowed? I'm genuinely curious

[harflax]

Reclassifying is pervasive in the private/prep school lacrosse scene. Athletes often repeat 8th grade before the clock for high school participation years in some leagues kicks in. There is also pre-first in a lot of the private schools. You will often find private school players are one to two years older than their public school counter parts in the Baltimore-DC lacrosse scene.

[HopFan16]

Regarding Forry, i remember in my sophomore year in spring of 2016, IL released an article of players to watch out for, and they compared Forry to be Hopkins' next Ryan Brown in terms of shooting and production... honest question but is there a reason why some players who IL project to be instant playmakers for top schools, seem to fizzle out?

At the time he committed, it was the earliest a recruit had ever committed (a record that has now been broken pretty much every year since). That comes with certain expectations. Fair or not, the media will expect you to be one of the best players in the country if you commit so early. Add that to IL's proclivity for exaggeration and you create a certain perception that, if it's not met, it perhaps can appear as though he is "fizzling out." Anyone who knew anything about Ryan Brown and Forry Smith could have told you five years ago that apart from generally being off-ball guys, they were pretty different types of players. The kid did have 21 goals on 46% shooting last year, a vast improvement from his 2018 season (when he was relegated to a part-time role in a crowded offense). In 2020, he's either going to start full-time attack or run with the 1s at midfield.

[xxxxxxx]

Regarding Forry, i remember in my sophomore year in spring of 2016, IL released an article of players to watch out for, and they compared Forry to be Hopkins' next Ryan Brown in terms of shooting and production... honest question but is there a reason why some players who IL project to be instant playmakers for top schools, seem to fizzle out?

At the time he committed, it was the earliest a recruit had ever committed (a record that has now been broken pretty much every year since). That comes with certain expectations. Fair or not, the media will expect you to be one of the best players in the country if you commit so early. Add that to IL's proclivity for exaggeration and you create a certain perception that, if it's not met, it perhaps can appear as though he is "fizzling out." Anyone who knew anything about Ryan Brown and Forry Smith could have told you five years ago that apart from generally being off-ball guys, they were pretty different types of players. The kid did have 21 goals on 46% shooting last year, a vast improvement from his 2018 season (when he was relegated to a part-time role in a crowded offense). In 2020, he's either going to start full-time attack or run with the 1s at midfield.

Oh, and he's looking like a two time Captain for the Jays, how many guys can say that? I think he has lived up to the expectations.

[oldjayfan]

If Forry is half as productive as Ryan Brown, Jays fans will be thrilled!

[jhu06]

Regarding Forry, i remember in my sophomore year in spring of 2016, IL released an article of players to watch out for, and they compared Forry to be Hopkins' next Ryan Brown in terms of shooting and production... honest question but is there a reason why some players who IL project to be instant playmakers for top schools, seem to fizzle out?

At the time he committed, it was the earliest a recruit had ever committed (a record that has now been broken pretty much every year since). That comes with certain expectations. Fair or not, the media will expect you to be one of the best players in the country if you commit so early. Add that to IL's proclivity for exaggeration and you create a certain perception that, if it's not met, it perhaps can appear as though he is "fizzling out." Anyone who knew anything about Ryan Brown and Forry Smith could have told you five years ago that apart from generally being off-ball guys, they were pretty different types of players. The kid did have 21 goals on 46% shooting last year, a vast improvement from his 2018 season (when he was relegated to a part-time role in a crowded offense). In 2020, he's either going to start full-time attack or run with the 1s at midfield.

Forry and Concannon are knowns at this point-something in the 10-20 range of goals. it's keogh, baskin, zinn, connor that are complete riddles at that position plus whomever else makes it through.

[MDlaxfan76]

Reclassifying is pervasive in the private/prep school lacrosse scene. Athletes often repeat 8th grade before the clock for high school participation years in some leagues kicks in. There is also pre-first in a lot of the private schools. You will often find private school players are one to two years older than their public school counter parts in the Baltimore-DC lacrosse scene.

This is more myth than reality, with Lenwood's comment, "Most of the kids that go to private school reclassify" particularly preposterous.

It is more accurate to say that top private school kids in the Baltimore are, on average, 3-6 months older than their class peers in public schools. That's primarily due to the pre-first cut-off which is indeed a bit different from public school entry.

Yes, a few kids do "re-class" during middle school (or even later), especially when they come to one of the top (educationally) private schools or switch schools. That's typically due to preparation issues, but it's also fair to say that there have been a few parents trying to 'game' the system by giving their kid another year of maturity before kicking into high school, most often with kids otherwise on the younger side. This was becoming more prevalent during the super early recruiting debacle as the differential is so much more pronounced early on. A six month advantage can be huge at that stage. Thankfully that pressure has been relieved.

You get this sort of myth spreading mostly by those who really don't know the facts and simply WANT to believe the myth, rather than acknowledging that the top MIAA schools tend to attract more of the best lax athletes, with a bigger funnel to get onto the field as a starter than most of the public school programs and the players tend to have the advantage of more total reps at a very high competition level over a series of years. That does not necessarily translate to any individual player's higher college potential, just a higher average team wide.

The myth spreaders tend to be flummoxed when challenged to actually produce more than one or two specific examples, indeed they often flail when trying to produce just one concrete example!

Smith came out of a private school program in Philly, not Baltimore. Good player. Stupid ER process though.

[Hoponboard]

First 2021 from Ty Xanders:

"IL’s No. 57 junior Grant Litchfield, D, Belmont Hill (Mass.) /
@LXCMinutemen has announced his commitment to
@JHUmenslacrosse. Mean and athletic cover man from the ISL; decided pre-rules in 2017."

[HopFan16]

First 2021 from Ty Xanders

"IL’s No. 57 junior Grant Litchfield, D, Belmont Hill (Mass.) /
@LXCMinutemen has announced his commitment to
@JHUmenslacrosse. Mean and athletic cover man from the ISL; decided pre-rules in 2017."

Speaking of commits, the incoming freshmen class that just arrived on campus added a defenseman: Dylan Rahm, a 6'4'' lefty out of Pennsylvania who played club for Duke's with some other recent commits. I believe he was a late addition to the class (originally committed to Brown) to replace Ryan Harkin, who is doing a PG year at the Hill Academy and will now join the 2020 class.

So that makes three 6'4'' poles in this 2019 class

[FannOLax]

First 2021 from Ty Xanders

"IL’s No. 57 junior Grant Litchfield, D, Belmont Hill (Mass.) /
@LXCMinutemen has announced his commitment to
@JHUmenslacrosse. Mean and athletic cover man from the ISL; decided pre-rules in 2017."

Okay, I feel like I really should know, but... Would someone please explain "decided pre-rules in 2017" and comment if Ty's writing was imprecise in this case? Thank you in advance.

[Laxxal22]

Litchfield is interesting. Pretty much physically matured at age 15 and will be almost 20 when he arrives on campus. Excels as a man against boys at the high school level, but what happens when that advantage goes away?

[HopFan16]

First 2021 from Ty Xanders

"IL’s No. 57 junior Grant Litchfield, D, Belmont Hill (Mass.) /
@LXCMinutemen has announced his commitment to
@JHUmenslacrosse. Mean and athletic cover man from the ISL; decided pre-rules in 2017."

Okay, I feel like I really should know, but... Would someone please explain "decided pre-rules in 2017" and comment if Ty's writing was imprecise in this case? Thank you in advance.

Pretty sure this just means he had made a verbal/unofficial commitment in 2017 before the rule change prohibited contact with schools until Sept. 1 of junior year. And now that it's Sept. 1 of his junior year, he's making that commitment "official." Maryland, Duke, UNC, Cornell, Ohio State, Penn, and Michigan all had verbal commitments from 2021 players before the April 2017 rule change. Apparently we had one too (Litchfield), but nobody knew about it.

[10stone5]

First 2021 from Ty Xanders

"IL’s No. 57 junior Grant Litchfield, D, Belmont Hill (Mass.) /
@LXCMinutemen has announced his commitment to
@JHUmenslacrosse. Mean and athletic cover man from the ISL; decided pre-rules in 2017."

Okay, I feel like I really should know, but... Would someone please explain "decided pre-rules in 2017" and comment if Ty's writing was imprecise in this case? Thank you in advance.

Pretty sure this just means he had made a verbal/unofficial commitment in 2017 before the rule change prohibited contact with schools until Sept. 1 of junior year. And now that it's Sept. 1 of his junior year, he's making that commitment "official." Maryland, Duke, UNC, Cornell, Ohio State, Penn, and Michigan all had verbal commitments from 2021 players before the April 2017 rule change. Apparently we had one too (Litchfield), but nobody knew about it.

Quick scan of ILs database.
To FannOLax’ point, presumably.

I’m not seeing much in the way of shenanigans with the Junior class. There are a handful of commits prior to 09-01, but its a small number, in one case I saw a Canadian who had re-set graduating year to 2021.

So far, the rules seem to be holding.

[HowieT3]

Reclassifying is pervasive in the private/prep school lacrosse scene. Athletes often repeat 8th grade before the clock for high school participation years in some leagues kicks in. There is also pre-first in a lot of the private schools. You will often find private school players are one to two years older than their public school counter parts in the Baltimore-DC lacrosse scene.

The Friends School in B'more has this. They'll even put kids who went to their kindergarten into it as "not being ready for first grade at Friends".

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Reclassifying is pervasive in the private/prep school lacrosse scene. Athletes often repeat 8th grade before the clock for high school participation years in some leagues kicks in. There is also pre-first in a lot of the private schools. You will often find private school players are one to two years older than their public school counter parts in the Baltimore-DC lacrosse scene.

The Friends School in B'more has this. They'll even put kids who went to their kindergarten into it as "not being ready for first grade at Friends".

We should have something similar here for certain posters “not being ready for the Hopkins thread at Fanlax.”

[houndace1]

First 2021 from Ty Xanders

"IL’s No. 57 junior Grant Litchfield, D, Belmont Hill (Mass.) /
@LXCMinutemen has announced his commitment to
@JHUmenslacrosse. Mean and athletic cover man from the ISL; decided pre-rules in 2017."

Okay, I feel like I really should know, but... Would someone please explain "decided pre-rules in 2017" and comment if Ty's writing was imprecise in this case? Thank you in advance.

Pretty sure this just means he had made a verbal/unofficial commitment in 2017 before the rule change prohibited contact with schools until Sept. 1 of junior year. And now that it's Sept. 1 of his junior year, he's making that commitment "official." Maryland, Duke, UNC, Cornell, Ohio State, Penn, and Michigan all had verbal commitments from 2021 players before the April 2017 rule change. Apparently we had one too (Litchfield), but nobody knew about it.

But this verbal still not a hard commit right, until they sign the NLI's their senior year? I guess a good example would be BJ Farrare, he was a 3-4 year Loyola ER recruit until he switched a couple days before NLI day after receiving an offer to play football and lacrosse at Upenn (heck i would switch too for an Ivy degree). Or our 2019 recruit Carson Raney as a tough D guy but last second he switched to OSU.

Because that's what im worried about the most for both Loyola and Hopkins's 2020 class. Hopkins has the best class in the country with their guys coming in and Loyola's is projected to be the #8 class once IL gets their star ratings right, but all of these verbals could change from today up until November 13th.

[HopFan16]

But this verbal still not a hard commit right, until they sign the NLI's their senior year?

Correct, it's just that: verbal. Recruits are free to change their minds up until the NLI date, when they have to sign on the dotted line. And we're seeing that more and more now. Teams like Notre Dame are aggressively "poaching" other players with verbal commitments. Some don't think highly of the practice, but it's perfectly legal. Hopkins has done its share of it: Brendan Grimes was originally an OSU commit before switching to Hopkins. I don't know if that was player or team initiated, but either way, he was only verbally committed and thus free for other teams to talk to. I suspect there will be at least a couple big-name switches in the 2020 class before the NLI date.

Our 2020 class is indeed quite good on paper, but that hasn't meant a whole lot over the past decade or so. One could argue that our last #1 class, which included Stanwick and Tinney, helped the team reach its first final four in 7 years (and the only one since), so perhaps there's something to being named the #1 class. (Still not sure if Hop's will ultimately be ranked #1—not that the distinction actually matters—but other schools like Duke may have caught up since IL last ranked the rising high school seniors.)

[houndace1]

But this verbal still not a hard commit right, until they sign the NLI's their senior year?

Correct, it's just that: verbal. Recruits are free to change their minds up until the NLI date, when they have to sign on the dotted line. And we're seeing that more and more now. Teams like Notre Dame are aggressively "poaching" other players with verbal commitments. Some don't think highly of the practice, but it's perfectly legal. Hopkins has done its share of it: Brendan Grimes was originally an OSU commit before switching to Hopkins. I don't know if that was player or team initiated, but either way, he was only verbally committed and thus free for other teams to talk to. I suspect there will be at least a couple big-name switches in the 2020 class before the NLI date.

Our 2020 class is indeed quite good on paper, but that hasn't meant a whole lot over the past decade or so. One could argue that our last #1 class, which included Stanwick and Tinney, helped the team reach its first final four in 7 years (and the only one since), so perhaps there's something to being named the #1 class. (Still not sure if Hop's will ultimately be ranked #1—not that the distinction actually matters—but other schools like Duke may have caught up since IL last ranked the rising high school seniors.)

Colleges can still contact recruits to convince them to come to their school despite said recruit verbally committing to another university?? That's.... kind of disdainful personally, and i know Loyola has done it with some of the guys in the 19 and 20 class but still.. That's a little stab to the other university to take the kid who that original university recruited IMO

16', i thought the class with supinsky as the headliner was also ranked #1 for back to back years?

[HopFan16]

But this verbal still not a hard commit right, until they sign the NLI's their senior year?

Correct, it's just that: verbal. Recruits are free to change their minds up until the NLI date, when they have to sign on the dotted line. And we're seeing that more and more now. Teams like Notre Dame are aggressively "poaching" other players with verbal commitments. Some don't think highly of the practice, but it's perfectly legal. Hopkins has done its share of it: Brendan Grimes was originally an OSU commit before switching to Hopkins. I don't know if that was player or team initiated, but either way, he was only verbally committed and thus free for other teams to talk to. I suspect there will be at least a couple big-name switches in the 2020 class before the NLI date.

Our 2020 class is indeed quite good on paper, but that hasn't meant a whole lot over the past decade or so. One could argue that our last #1 class, which included Stanwick and Tinney, helped the team reach its first final four in 7 years (and the only one since), so perhaps there's something to being named the #1 class. (Still not sure if Hop's will ultimately be ranked #1—not that the distinction actually matters—but other schools like Duke may have caught up since IL last ranked the rising high school seniors.)

Colleges can still contact recruits to convince them to come to their school despite said recruit verbally committing to another university?? That's.... kind of disdainful personally, and i know Loyola has done it with some of the guys in the 19 and 20 class but still.. That's a little stab to the other university to take the kid who that original university recruited IMO

16', i thought the class with supinsky as the headliner was also ranked #1 for back to back years?

You're correct, I forgot about that class (or maybe I just blocked it from memory). So clearly the #1 distinction is meaningless, as that class imploded (for a variety of reasons, many of which were completely outside the team's control, but still).

I agree it's kind of suspect when coaches go out of their way to try to poach a kid who's already committed, but a lot of the time the recruit initiates contact with another school after having a change of heart (or having improved play/grades which open them up to opportunities they may not have had initially). Coaches would be stupid not to field those calls.

[houndace1]

But this verbal still not a hard commit right, until they sign the NLI's their senior year?

Correct, it's just that: verbal. Recruits are free to change their minds up until the NLI date, when they have to sign on the dotted line. And we're seeing that more and more now. Teams like Notre Dame are aggressively "poaching" other players with verbal commitments. Some don't think highly of the practice, but it's perfectly legal. Hopkins has done its share of it: Brendan Grimes was originally an OSU commit before switching to Hopkins. I don't know if that was player or team initiated, but either way, he was only verbally committed and thus free for other teams to talk to. I suspect there will be at least a couple big-name switches in the 2020 class before the NLI date.

Our 2020 class is indeed quite good on paper, but that hasn't meant a whole lot over the past decade or so. One could argue that our last #1 class, which included Stanwick and Tinney, helped the team reach its first final four in 7 years (and the only one since), so perhaps there's something to being named the #1 class. (Still not sure if Hop's will ultimately be ranked #1—not that the distinction actually matters—but other schools like Duke may have caught up since IL last ranked the rising high school seniors.)

Colleges can still contact recruits to convince them to come to their school despite said recruit verbally committing to another university?? That's.... kind of disdainful personally, and i know Loyola has done it with some of the guys in the 19 and 20 class but still.. That's a little stab to the other university to take the kid who that original university recruited IMO

16', i thought the class with supinsky as the headliner was also ranked #1 for back to back years?

You're correct, I forgot about that class (or maybe I just blocked it from memory). So clearly the #1 distinction is meaningless, as that class imploded (for a variety of reasons, many of which were completely outside the team's control, but still).

I agree it's kind of suspect when coaches go out of their way to try to poach a kid who's already committed, but a lot of the time the recruit initiates contact with another school after having a change of heart (or having improved play/grades which open them up to opportunities they may not have had initially). Coaches would be stupid not to field those calls.

Do coaches do this to mainly beef up their incoming class and roster? doesn't this also possibly upset some of the players who've been waiting in the wings to get starting minutes, or at least promised minutes and opportunities to play for championships when they were originally recruited too?