The Nation's Financial Condition

[HooDat]

Odd, we've been hearing how super awesome deregulation is under Trump.

The board Republicans don't know up from down anymore. Adrift at sea, unable to tell their leaders what they want them to do.....

The board is definitely moving, and I agree that the R's have no idea whether to pat their heads or scratch their rears - but perhaps not knowing what you want and flailing about is better than knowing what you want and it being a train wreck.

[old salt]

Buchanan & I are happy. Ross Perot is smiling down on us.

[MDlaxfan76]

Buchanan & I are happy. Ross Perot is smiling down on us.

Kind of an ugly thing to say, but just politically speaking, thank goodness the old white guys, with their bigotry and misogyny, are fast declining in #'s and as a % of the electorate.

But a ton of damage as they go out of power.

Including "nationalism" and "isolation" and "trade wars are easy to win".
All of apiece.

[cradleandshoot]

Buchanan & I are happy. Ross Perot is smiling down on us.

Kind of an ugly thing to say, but just politically speaking, thank goodness the old white guys, with their bigotry and misogyny, are fast declining in #'s and as a % of the electorate.

But a ton of damage as they go out of power.

Including "nationalism" and "isolation" and "trade wars are easy to win".
All of apiece.

I have to give you credit MD... still tossing around the same nonsense as usual but you kept it under 30 paragraphs... your getting better.

[MDlaxfan76]

Buchanan & I are happy. Ross Perot is smiling down on us.

Kind of an ugly thing to say, but just politically speaking, thank goodness the old white guys, with their bigotry and misogyny, are fast declining in #'s and as a % of the electorate.

But a ton of damage as they go out of power.

Including "nationalism" and "isolation" and "trade wars are easy to win".
All of apiece.

I have to give you credit MD... still tossing around the same nonsense as usual but you kept it under 30 paragraphs... your getting better.

I'll take credit where I can.

Which aspect(s) do you see as nonsense?

That the "old white guys" are declining in both #'s and % ?
Or that they're more bigoted and misogynistic than any other large demographic?
Or that "nationalism" and "isolationism" and "trade wars are easy to win" are all most popular to their demographic as well?

In many folks' eyes I'm an "old white guy" too, so let's be clear that I don't think our demographic (60+ white) is determinative of one's views, just that what I've cited is far more prevalent in our age group. Add education and socioeconomic status and this becomes even more true. But not absolute.

[a fan]

Buchanan & I are happy. Ross Perot is smiling down on us.

No, he isn't.

Trump is not installing across the board tariffs that protect the American workforce. Or even a large part of it. Or even a small part of it.

And the new NAFTA certainly doesn't do that...it's more of the same policies that exposed American labor to compete with Mexican labor.

He even suggested a tariff-free deal with EU. And even if you can manage to somehow decode what Trump is asking of China, he is asking for more access to China for corporate America. No mention or protecting American labor.

As usual, Trump isn't doing what you claim he's doing, sorry. He's not even planning on doing what you are claiming.

[old salt]

Buchanan & I are happy. Ross Perot is smiling down on us.

No, he isn't.

Trump is not installing across the board tariffs that protect the American workforce. Or even a large part of it. Or even a small part of it.

And the new NAFTA certainly doesn't do that...it's more of the same policies that exposed American labor to compete with Mexican labor.

He even suggested a tariff-free deal with EU. And even if you can manage to somehow decode what Trump is asking of China, he is asking for more access to China for corporate America. No mention or protecting American labor.

As usual, Trump isn't doing what you claim he's doing, sorry. He's not even planning on doing what you are claiming.

You're just quibbling over minor differences in pursing the same goals.
Different decades. More damage done & jobs lost in the interim.
The overall objectives of all 3 are very close.

To understand Trump’s malleability on trade, it is helpful to compare him to two predecessors: Ross Perot and Patrick Buchanan. Both men denounced trade from a conservative nationalist perspective.

Given Trump’s subtle tacks in rhetoric, it is less surprising that his governance increasingly resembles the GOP mainstream. Examining how he constructs his outsider image will be crucial for understanding how we got here and where we are going, on trade and much more.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Buchanan & I are happy. Ross Perot is smiling down on us.

No, he isn't.

Trump is not installing across the board tariffs that protect the American workforce. Or even a large part of it. Or even a small part of it.

And the new NAFTA certainly doesn't do that...it's more of the same policies that exposed American labor to compete with Mexican labor.

He even suggested a tariff-free deal with EU. And even if you can manage to somehow decode what Trump is asking of China, he is asking for more access to China for corporate America. No mention or protecting American labor.

As usual, Trump isn't doing what you claim he's doing, sorry. He's not even planning on doing what you are claiming.

You're just quibbling over minor differences in pursing the same goals.
Different decades. More damage done & jobs lost in the interim.
The overall objectives of all 3 are very close.

To understand Trump’s malleability on trade, it is helpful to compare him to two predecessors: Ross Perot and Patrick Buchanan.
Both men denounced trade from a conservative nationalist perspective.

30 years is an eternity. We ain’t going back. Like comparing 1990 to 1960. Trump is a fool. You know more than he does. Trust me.

[a fan]

I'm not quibbling over minor differences, old salt. Not even close. The overall objectives are NOWHERE in the same ballpark, and you're trying to put lipstick on a pig.

Where are my protective tariffs? Or my brewer friends? Or my cheesemaking friends? Or Farmers, Or Tea makers. Or, or, or. Understand how many manufacturers I have lunch and dinner with....all of them are getting hit by what Trump is doing, and it ain't because he's going to help us out when a deal is made. What's going to happen to us is that after all the economic damage? Tariffs are going to go right back to where they were for the majority of US producers.

These are temporary measures. A temper tantrum-----Trump looking for a made up fight so he can proclaim a win to make guys like you happy.

Trump could do what your claiming he's doing---protecting the entire US workforce------ into place right now. Today. Across the board tariffs that protect ALL American workers from "unfair" outside competition from low wage nations, and nations that don't follow environmental standards.

He's not doing this. Please stop claiming he is. And please stop acting like anyone who dares question Trump must, by default, have TDS and are "splitting hairs'. Listen to what people who are directly affected by this stuff have to say for a change.

[Typical Lax Dad]

[old salt]

I'm not quibbling over minor differences, old salt. Not even close. The overall objectives are NOWHERE in the same ballpark, and you're trying to put lipstick on a pig.

Where are my protective tariffs? Or my brewer friends? Or my cheesemaking friends? Or Farmers, Or Tea makers. Or, or, or. Understand how many manufacturers I have lunch and dinner with....all of them are getting hit by what Trump is doing, and it ain't because he's going to help us out when a deal is made. What's going to happen to us is that after all the economic damage, tariffs are going to go right back to where they were for the majority of US producers.

These are temporary measures. A temper tantrum-----Trump looking for a made up fight so he can proclaim a win to make guys like you happy.

Trump could do what your claiming he's doing---protecting the entire US workforce------ into place right now. Today. Across the board tariffs that protect ALL American workers from "unfair" outside competition from low wage nations, and nations that don't follow environmental standards.

He's not doing this. Please stop claiming he is. And please stop acting like anyone who dares question Trump must, by default, have TDS and are "splitting hairs'. Listen to what people who are directly affected by this stuff have to say for a change.

Different decades, different circumstances, different tactics to reach the same objective.
Read the article I linked. It explains the differences in the 3 Populist Nationalists & their tactics :
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/165859

[old salt]

I'm not quibbling over minor differences, old salt. Not even close. The overall objectives are NOWHERE in the same ballpark, and you're trying to put lipstick on a pig.

Where are my protective tariffs? Or my brewer friends? Or my cheesemaking friends? Or Farmers, Or Tea makers. Or, or, or. Understand how many manufacturers I have lunch and dinner with....all of them are getting hit by what Trump is doing, and it ain't because he's going to help us out when a deal is made. What's going to happen to us is that after all the economic damage? Tariffs are going to go right back to where they were for the majority of US producers.

These are temporary measures. A temper tantrum-----Trump looking for a made up fight so he can proclaim a win to make guys like you happy.

Trump could do what your claiming he's doing---protecting the entire US workforce------ into place right now. Today. Across the board tariffs that protect ALL American workers from "unfair" outside competition from low wage nations, and nations that don't follow environmental standards.

He's not doing this. Please stop claiming he is. And please stop acting like anyone who dares question Trump must, by default, have TDS and are "splitting hairs'. Listen to what people who are directly affected by this stuff have to say for a change.

Now that's a temper tantrum.

[a fan]

Dig your heels in. Go right ahead. He's not doing what you're claiming, but you stopped listening to other posters the day Trump took office. This used to be a place where you participated in exchanging ideas, and for the life of me, I have no idea you defend everything Trump does...particularly when Trump changes his mind as often as he changes his ties.

Suit yourself. You've obviously got this all figured out, and Trump is taking us to economic Valhalla. What do I know? I just own an American factory that exports and imports goods. Why bother listening to me?

[a fan]

Different decades, different circumstances, different tactics to reach the same objective.

Great. Tell me what Trump's objective is. Spell it out.

[old salt]

Different decades, different circumstances, different tactics to reach the same objective.

Great. Tell me what Trump's objective is. Spell it out.

Trump wants to reduce our trade imbalance, reduce the offshoring of jobs & save what he can of our manufacturing & diversified industrial base.
Blaming it on automation does not eliminate the need to save what's left, claw back what we can
& do business with geo-strategic allies rather than adversaries when possible.

The article I linked explains how his tactics differ from Perot & Buchanan.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Different decades, different circumstances, different tactics to reach the same objective.

Great. Tell me what Trump's objective is. Spell it out.

Trump wants to reduce our trade imbalance, reduce the offshoring of jobs & save what he can of our manufacturing & diversified industrial base.
Blaming it on automation does not eliminate the need to save what's left, claw back what we can
& do business with geo-strategic allies rather than adversaries when possible.

The article I linked explains how his tactics differ from Perot & Buchanan.

Paper thin. Meaningless. Out of touch with real people running real companies.

[old salt]

Dig your heels in. Go right ahead. He's not doing what you're claiming, but you stopped listening to other posters the day Trump took office. This used to be a place where you participated in exchanging ideas, and for the life of me, I have no idea you defend everything Trump does...particularly when Trump changes his mind as often as he changes his ties.

Suit yourself. You've obviously got this all figured out, and Trump is taking us to economic Valhalla. What do I know? I just own an American factory that exports and imports goods. Why bother listening to me?

Then, as now, I'm commenting on the govt leaders in power.
I agree with many of Trump's priorities, objectives & policies.
I get the message on why Trump was elected.
I understand what motivated the voters who put him in office.
...& it's not racism or "white" anything.
I agree that this is no longer a hospitable place for the exchange of ideas.
With the hostility, trolling, ridicule, personalization, & virtue signalling, it's not worth the effort to go deeper into detail.

[cradleandshoot]

Buchanan & I are happy. Ross Perot is smiling down on us.

Kind of an ugly thing to say, but just politically speaking, thank goodness the old white guys, with their bigotry and misogyny, are fast declining in #'s and as a % of the electorate.

But a ton of damage as they go out of power.

Including "nationalism" and "isolation" and "trade wars are easy to win".
All of apiece.

I have to give you credit MD... still tossing around the same nonsense as usual but you kept it under 30 paragraphs... your getting better.

I'll take credit where I can.

Which aspect(s) do you see as nonsense?

That the "old white guys" are declining in both #'s and % ?
Or that they're more bigoted and misogynistic than any other large demographic?
Or that "nationalism" and "isolationism" and "trade wars are easy to win" are all most popular to their demographic as well?

In many folks' eyes I'm an "old white guy" too, so let's be clear that I don't think our demographic (60+ white) is determinative of one's views, just that what I've cited is far more prevalent in our age group. Add education and socioeconomic status and this becomes even more true. But not absolute.

I question the fact how you so easily stereotype who you consider to be old white guys and that in your eyes they are all racist SOBs. I am an old white guy and I think you are full of boloney. My youngest son is married to a black woman and come this March we will have a beautiful new grandchild. You want to spout your BS to me that I am some sort of an old white racist. I will be proud as hell to be the grandfather of my newest grandbaby. This child will only know the love that only a grandparent can give. Outside of that you can keep your effing preconceived notions about who you think old white people hate and why. I am just going to concentrate of loving my new grandbaby when he or she arrives. I will leave all the stereotypical racial hate mongering to Rockefeller Republicans such as yourself. I so wish there was a middle finger Emoji right now.

[a fan]

Then, as now, I'm commenting on the govt leaders in power.
I agree with many of Trump's priorities, objectives & policies

You can't even tell me what his policies are. Neither can Trump.

Trump just rewrote what he called the worst deal ever in NAFTA.

Give me five ways the new NAFTA will have a major effect on the American Worker.


You can't. THAT is why you give us nonsense statement like "it's not worth the effort to go into deeper detail".


I had no problem working through your differences with Obama in great detail for 8 years. You never once complained like you do now.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is that now you have to defend policy, rather than attack it. It's annoying that after attacking anything and everything Obama with relish for 8 years, you clutch your pearls in year 3 of Trump's term.... and act like Trump is the first President to get criticized.

So come on. Man up and defend your position.

1. Give me five ways the new NAFTA will have a major effect on the American Worker.

2. What is Trump's trade objective with China? What does the endgame look like? You say it's the same (or close to) Perot's and Buchanans. Great. Spell it out.

[old salt]

Then, as now, I'm commenting on the govt leaders in power.
I agree with many of Trump's priorities, objectives & policies

You can't even tell me what his policies are. Neither can Trump.

I just told you. You're obfuscating now.
You're demanding to know the play by play & the final outcome when it's still the 1st qtr.

Trump wants to reduce our trade imbalance, reduce the offshoring of jobs & save what he can of our manufacturing & diversified industrial base.
Blaming it on automation does not eliminate the need to save what's left, claw back what we can
& do business with geo-strategic allies rather than adversaries when possible.