Orange Duce

[DMac]

Should also note that not all college educated folks are all that smart either (an amazing number of them, actually).
No secret how I feel about Trump, hate to tell you fellas this, but Salty aint so wrong. Whole lot of people are pretty sick and tired of the white privilege, and stereotyping of the white man talk, myself included. Dems better start talking about something other than how all we white folk are such racists (hear that, DocB?) or the same thing is going to happen in the next go 'round. JMHO

[youthathletics]

Look at who voted for him, Salty.
The one, the only, demographic in which he dominated was white, non-college educated men. More so if you were older, than younger.

Please define non-college educated?

Do you mean trade school men and women, auto mechanics, chefs, firefighters, EMT's, UPS and delivery service people, etc.

Sounds like you are in lock step w/HRC and her deplorable comment.

You are stereotyping those people. I know many people in those fields that went to college.

Exactly; me too.

youth, let me also make clear that just because someone didn't get a college degree doesn't make them stupid. My wife's dad didn't finish high school, went into the Navy as a 16yr old during WWII, then into the fishing business. Self-taught, well-read, thoughtful. Far from an 'idiot'. Made sure his 3 kids all focused on education. Each of them paid for their own college education, though, my wife was valedictorian of her HS, Dartmouth, Harvard Business School. Brother is one of the top computer scientists working for 3 letter agencies. Sister went into high school education after an initial, successful career in real estate.

Note also, not all non-college educated white men who voted, voted for Trump.
Some voted for HRC.

Thanks for the reply...we all know those types. My Father was the same....taught at Georgetown U for 20 years and never went to college.

But you did not answer the question...please define non-college educated to support your argument?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Look at who voted for him, Salty.
The one, the only, demographic in which he dominated was white, non-college educated men. More so if you were older, than younger.

Please define non-college educated?

Do you mean trade school men and women, auto mechanics, chefs, firefighters, EMT's, UPS and delivery service people, etc.

Sounds like you are in lock step w/HRC and her deplorable comment.

You are stereotyping those people. I know many people in those fields that went to college.

I'm not, MD was...you are helping me make my point. Thanks.

I didn’t see anyone mention the people in those fields are not college educated, besides your post. I am not saying that is your belief. The statement had the elements of stereotyping. I am pretty sure that is not what you meant.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/a ... cs/575113/

Lots of information on how that is segmented. There are also plenty of people with 2-3 years of college but never finished.

[MDlaxfan76]

Look at who voted for him, Salty.
The one, the only, demographic in which he dominated was white, non-college educated men. More so if you were older, than younger.

Please define non-college educated?

Do you mean trade school men and women, auto mechanics, chefs, firefighters, EMT's, UPS and delivery service people, etc.

Sounds like you are in lock step w/HRC and her deplorable comment.

You are stereotyping those people. I know many people in those fields that went to college.

Exactly; me too.

youth, let me also make clear that just because someone didn't get a college degree doesn't make them stupid. My wife's dad didn't finish high school, went into the Navy as a 16yr old during WWII, then into the fishing business. Self-taught, well-read, thoughtful. Far from an 'idiot'. Made sure his 3 kids all focused on education. Each of them paid for their own college education, though, my wife was valedictorian of her HS, Dartmouth, Harvard Business School. Brother is one of the top computer scientists working for 3 letter agencies. Sister went into high school education after an initial, successful career in real estate.

Note also, not all non-college educated white men who voted, voted for Trump.
Some voted for HRC.

Thanks for the reply...we all know those types. My Father was the same....taught at Georgetown U for 20 years and never went to college.

But you did not answer the question...please define non-college educated to support your argument?

I confess that I must not understand your question as to definition.

A non-college educated person didn't earn a college degree, or at least that's what the demographic definition is (if I recall correctly). They may have started college but didn't finish; on the other hand, they may not have ever earned a HS degree.

The way the census question is typically asked is "what is the highest educational degree you have earned" or some such.

Trump did well ONLY with non-college educated white men.
If you had a college education, white or not, you were more likely to have voted for HRC.
If you were a woman, white or not, you were more likely to have voted for HRC.
If you weren't white, you were more likely to vote for HRC.

It's really not that confusing. Not sure why you're struggling with it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/a ... cs/575113/

[MDlaxfan76]

Should also note that not all college educated folks are all that smart either (an amazing number of them, actually).
No secret how I feel about Trump, hate to tell you fellas this, but Salty aint so wrong. Whole lot of people are pretty sick and tired of the white privilege, and stereotyping of the white man talk, myself included. Dems better start talking about something other than how all we white folk are such racists (hear that, DocB?) or the same thing is going to happen in the next go 'round. JMHO

Of course this is true, not all "college-educated" folks are "all that smart". Yup, some nitwits among these as well.

But let's be honest, which of these groups is more likely to have had more exposure to world history, philosophy, economics, literature, science, etc?

Which would be less likely?

I get it that people don't like to have their demographic placement define who they are. We want to be judged individually, not by our demographic characteristics. You betcha.

But we live in a white majority country, in which socioeconomics have been rather stubbornly defined by the history of race in this country. A lot of reasons why that continues to be the case.

If we actually want a more equitable country in which our race or gender or religion, etc do not create advantages nor impediments to our path to success, then we need to belly up to these issues, admit they exist, and consider rational solutions. These need not be 'extremist' solutions, but the status quo isn't ok.

And, yeah, we need to totally repudiate 'white nationalism'.
Period.

[youthathletics]

Look at who voted for him, Salty.
The one, the only, demographic in which he dominated was white, non-college educated men. More so if you were older, than younger.

Please define non-college educated?

Do you mean trade school men and women, auto mechanics, chefs, firefighters, EMT's, UPS and delivery service people, etc.

Sounds like you are in lock step w/HRC and her deplorable comment.

You are stereotyping those people. I know many people in those fields that went to college.

Exactly; me too.

youth, let me also make clear that just because someone didn't get a college degree doesn't make them stupid. My wife's dad didn't finish high school, went into the Navy as a 16yr old during WWII, then into the fishing business. Self-taught, well-read, thoughtful. Far from an 'idiot'. Made sure his 3 kids all focused on education. Each of them paid for their own college education, though, my wife was valedictorian of her HS, Dartmouth, Harvard Business School. Brother is one of the top computer scientists working for 3 letter agencies. Sister went into high school education after an initial, successful career in real estate.

Note also, not all non-college educated white men who voted, voted for Trump.
Some voted for HRC.

Thanks for the reply...we all know those types. My Father was the same....taught at Georgetown U for 20 years and never went to college.

But you did not answer the question...please define non-college educated to support your argument?

I confess that I must not understand your question as to definition.

A non-college educated person didn't earn a college degree, or at least that's what the demographic definition is (if I recall correctly). They may have started college but didn't finish; on the other hand, they may not have ever earned a HS degree.

The way the census question is typically asked is "what is the highest educational degree you have earned" or some such.

Trump did well ONLY with non-college educated white men.
If you had a college education, white or not, you were more likely to have voted for HRC.
If you were a woman, white or not, you were more likely to have voted for HRC.
If you weren't white, you were more likely to vote for HRC.

It's really not that confusing. Not sure why you're struggling with it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/a ... cs/575113/

I.m not struggling with it one iota. I was merely trying to figure out how in-depth you thought about using it to make your case.

My point is that data point is highly argumentative and misleading. So if someone like my father answers the poll question that I do not have a college degree and he is white and older, he must be a dumb Trump supporter and not a HRC supporter? Your use of Identity politics via that singular data point is shortsighted and a low-blow attempt at saying Trump supporters at that time are essentially non-educated.

[DMac]

I said nothing about white nationalists or white supremacy, MDlax, I said white privilege. I'm getting real tired of hearing how none of us ever experienced hardships and life was just an easy road for us all because we were born white. I'm also getting tired of hearing about how any person who wants to sneak in the country illegally should be allowed to, and taken care of when they get here. This is coming from the son of an immigrant. Come one, come all, but come through the front door, not the hole in a fence. The Dems better figure out a better game plan or the group of disgusting Rs in DC are going to stay right where they are after the next election. JMHO.

[foreverlax]

Today's WSJ

Trump Administration Extends License Enabling Huawei to Work With U.S. Customers
Commerce Department officials grant 90-day extension to license that has allowed Chinese company to do some business within the U.S.

What Trump actually said -

Q On Huawei — is the administration going to allow U.S. businesses to continue selling to Huawei? Is there going to be an extension of the license tomorrow?

THE PRESIDENT: No. That was reported. And, actually, it’s the opposite. Huawei. Huawei is a company we may not do business with at all. And it was sort of reported, I think the opposite, today — I was surprised — that we are open to doing business. We’re actually open not to doing business with them. So I don’t know who gave the report.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Look at who voted for him, Salty.
The one, the only, demographic in which he dominated was white, non-college educated men. More so if you were older, than younger.

Please define non-college educated?

Do you mean trade school men and women, auto mechanics, chefs, firefighters, EMT's, UPS and delivery service people, etc.

Sounds like you are in lock step w/HRC and her deplorable comment.

You are stereotyping those people. I know many people in those fields that went to college.

Exactly; me too.

youth, let me also make clear that just because someone didn't get a college degree doesn't make them stupid. My wife's dad didn't finish high school, went into the Navy as a 16yr old during WWII, then into the fishing business. Self-taught, well-read, thoughtful. Far from an 'idiot'. Made sure his 3 kids all focused on education. Each of them paid for their own college education, though, my wife was valedictorian of her HS, Dartmouth, Harvard Business School. Brother is one of the top computer scientists working for 3 letter agencies. Sister went into high school education after an initial, successful career in real estate.

Note also, not all non-college educated white men who voted, voted for Trump.
Some voted for HRC.

Thanks for the reply...we all know those types. My Father was the same....taught at Georgetown U for 20 years and never went to college.

But you did not answer the question...please define non-college educated to support your argument?

I confess that I must not understand your question as to definition.

A non-college educated person didn't earn a college degree, or at least that's what the demographic definition is (if I recall correctly). They may have started college but didn't finish; on the other hand, they may not have ever earned a HS degree.

The way the census question is typically asked is "what is the highest educational degree you have earned" or some such.

Trump did well ONLY with non-college educated white men.
If you had a college education, white or not, you were more likely to have voted for HRC.
If you were a woman, white or not, you were more likely to have voted for HRC.
If you weren't white, you were more likely to vote for HRC.

It's really not that confusing. Not sure why you're struggling with it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/a ... cs/575113/

I.m not struggling with it one iota. I was merely trying to figure out how in-depth you thought about using it to make your case.

My point is that data point is highly argumentative and misleading. So if someone like my father answers the poll question that I do not have a college degree and he is white and older, he must be a dumb Trump supporter and not a HRC supporter? Your use of Identity politics via that singular data point is shortsighted and a low-blow attempt at saying Trump supporters at that time are essentially non-educated.

Statistically more likely is all that one can conclude.

[MDlaxfan76]

I said nothing about white nationalists or white supremacy, MDlax, I said white privilege. I'm getting real tired of hearing how none of us ever experienced hardships and life was just an easy road for us all because we were born white. I'm also getting tired of hearing about how any person who wants to sneak in the country illegally should be allowed to, and taken care of when they get here. This is coming from the son of an immigrant. Come one, come all, but come through the front door, not the hole in a fence. The Dems better figure out a better game plan or the group of disgusting Rs in DC are going to stay right where they are after the next election. JMHO.

I DO understand the difference, DMac, and I'm certainly not suggesting that you support white nationalism!

And absolutely, many white folks have to overcome all sorts of adversity in their lives to get ahead in the world. Lots of white folks are raised in poverty by a single parent or grandparent, go to a crummy school, have gangs bully them on the way to school, have lead paint chips in their bedrooms, don't have clean, drinkable water in their schools, have drugs pushed at them and their kids, etc, etc. Yup.

They don't, however, have to overcome their skin color, they don't need to tell their kids that because of the color of their skin that they need to keep their hands firmly on the wheel of the car when a police man approaches them for driving through a white neighborhood. ETC.

And of course, the likelihood of growing up as I described is far higher if you are non-white, non-asian, than if you are white. why? Because of many decades of Jim Crow and racial redlining both governmentally sanctioned and non-governmental.

I quite agree about immigration, but you're saying come one, come all.
Since when have we remotely accepted all legal applicants???

And Trump, of course, wants to reduce legal immigration, not just illegal.

[MDlaxfan76]

Look at who voted for him, Salty.
The one, the only, demographic in which he dominated was white, non-college educated men. More so if you were older, than younger.

Please define non-college educated?

Do you mean trade school men and women, auto mechanics, chefs, firefighters, EMT's, UPS and delivery service people, etc.

Sounds like you are in lock step w/HRC and her deplorable comment.

You are stereotyping those people. I know many people in those fields that went to college.

Exactly; me too.

youth, let me also make clear that just because someone didn't get a college degree doesn't make them stupid. My wife's dad didn't finish high school, went into the Navy as a 16yr old during WWII, then into the fishing business. Self-taught, well-read, thoughtful. Far from an 'idiot'. Made sure his 3 kids all focused on education. Each of them paid for their own college education, though, my wife was valedictorian of her HS, Dartmouth, Harvard Business School. Brother is one of the top computer scientists working for 3 letter agencies. Sister went into high school education after an initial, successful career in real estate.

Note also, not all non-college educated white men who voted, voted for Trump.
Some voted for HRC.

Thanks for the reply...we all know those types. My Father was the same....taught at Georgetown U for 20 years and never went to college.

But you did not answer the question...please define non-college educated to support your argument?

I confess that I must not understand your question as to definition.

A non-college educated person didn't earn a college degree, or at least that's what the demographic definition is (if I recall correctly). They may have started college but didn't finish; on the other hand, they may not have ever earned a HS degree.

The way the census question is typically asked is "what is the highest educational degree you have earned" or some such.

Trump did well ONLY with non-college educated white men.
If you had a college education, white or not, you were more likely to have voted for HRC.
If you were a woman, white or not, you were more likely to have voted for HRC.
If you weren't white, you were more likely to vote for HRC.

It's really not that confusing. Not sure why you're struggling with it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/a ... cs/575113/

I.m not struggling with it one iota. I was merely trying to figure out how in-depth you thought about using it to make your case.

My point is that data point is highly argumentative and misleading. So if someone like my father answers the poll question that I do not have a college degree and he is white and older, he must be a dumb Trump supporter and not a HRC supporter? Your use of Identity politics via that singular data point is shortsighted and a low-blow attempt at saying Trump supporters at that time are essentially non-educated.

Why do you insist on gross exaggerations of what I wrote?

Of course an older, white, non-college educated voter need not be a "dumb Trump supporter". It's not a monolith. But it's the only demographic group Trump actually won. So, statistically, more likely that someone in that demographic group supported Trump than Clinton.

Likewise, some college educated voters supported Trump. Less likely though than Clinton.

The differences are quite pronounced.
They are not, however, causal, nor otherwise determinative of who a voter supported.
Just highly correlated.

So, we ask ourselves 'why' that would be?
Why in the world would being more educated lead one to reject Trump at a higher rate?

I think some less educated folks are indeed mind-numbingly following someone who claims he's their guy. Happens on both sides of the political divide.

Some are indeed moved by the appeals to underlying racism, nativism, even sexism, etc. Mostly unconscious, but some quite conscious. Yup.

Some were simply resentful of the 'elites' and this guy comes along who says he wants to stick it to the elites. Yeah, he's our guy!

Back on LP in the summer of 2016 I cited an article that examined the appeal of 'strong man' rule, across societies amongst the less educated of those societies, including the psychology of those raised to idealize 'authority' over 'self-direction'. That article made a very strong case that this way of being raised was much more prevalent in families that didn't value education as highly as those who did.

I dunno what really explains it. But the correlation is real.

[seacoaster]

This just in:

Denmark Offers to Buy U.S.
By Andy Borowitz
11:01 A.M.

COPENHAGEN (The Borowitz Report)—After rebuffing Donald J. Trump’s hypothetical proposal to purchase Greenland, the government of Denmark has announced that it would be interested in buying the United States instead.

“As we have stated, Greenland is not for sale,” a spokesperson for the Danish government said on Friday. “We have noted, however, that during the Trump regime, pretty much everything in the United States, including its government, has most definitely been for sale.”

“Denmark would be interested in purchasing the United States in its entirety, with the exception of its government,” the spokesperson added.

A key provision of the purchase offer, the spokesperson said, would be the relocation of Donald Trump to another country “to be determined,” with Russia and North Korea cited as possible destinations.

If Denmark’s bid for the United States is accepted, the Scandinavian nation has ambitious plans for its new acquisition. “We believe that by giving the U.S. an educational system and national health care, it could be transformed from a vast land mass into a great nation,” the spokesperson said.

[DMac]

I said nothing about white nationalists or white supremacy, MDlax, I said white privilege. I'm getting real tired of hearing how none of us ever experienced hardships and life was just an easy road for us all because we were born white. I'm also getting tired of hearing about how any person who wants to sneak in the country illegally should be allowed to, and taken care of when they get here. This is coming from the son of an immigrant. Come one, come all, but come through the front door, not the hole in a fence. The Dems better figure out a better game plan or the group of disgusting Rs in DC are going to stay right where they are after the next election. JMHO.

I DO understand the difference, DMac, and I'm certainly not suggesting that you support white nationalism!

And absolutely, many white folks have to overcome all sorts of adversity in their lives to get ahead in the world. Lots of white folks are raised in poverty by a single parent or grandparent, go to a crummy school, have gangs bully them on the way to school, have lead paint chips in their bedrooms, don't have clean, drinkable water in their schools, have drugs pushed at them and their kids, etc, etc. Yup.

They don't, however, have to overcome their skin color, they don't need to tell their kids that because of the color of their skin that they need to keep their hands firmly on the wheel of the car when a police man approaches them for driving through a white neighborhood. ETC.

And of course, the likelihood of growing up as I described is far higher if you are non-white, non-asian, than if you are white. why? Because of many decades of Jim Crow and racial redlining both governmentally sanctioned and non-governmental.

I quite agree about immigration, but you're saying come one, come all.
Since when have we remotely accepted all legal applicants???

And Trump, of course, wants to reduce legal immigration, not just illegal.

You're missing my point completely, this is about as simply as I can put it, if the Dems want to win, the words racist, bigot, and white privilege need to come out of their mouths far less frequently. Remember DocB's post during the last run....racist, bigot, misogynistic, white privilege, the white man's days are done? All of that back fired and it will again.
What do we do about the people at the border? If one is of the opinion that they can't all just come in and stay, does that make him/her a racist abd bigot? That's what the Dem's message seems to be to me. They better figure out a better way to deal with it than calling all the people like me a racist and bigot....that kind of thing is exactly what drove people to Trump. If you don't learn from history, and all that.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I said nothing about white nationalists or white supremacy, MDlax, I said white privilege. I'm getting real tired of hearing how none of us ever experienced hardships and life was just an easy road for us all because we were born white. I'm also getting tired of hearing about how any person who wants to sneak in the country illegally should be allowed to, and taken care of when they get here. This is coming from the son of an immigrant. Come one, come all, but come through the front door, not the hole in a fence. The Dems better figure out a better game plan or the group of disgusting Rs in DC are going to stay right where they are after the next election. JMHO.

I DO understand the difference, DMac, and I'm certainly not suggesting that you support white nationalism!

And absolutely, many white folks have to overcome all sorts of adversity in their lives to get ahead in the world. Lots of white folks are raised in poverty by a single parent or grandparent, go to a crummy school, have gangs bully them on the way to school, have lead paint chips in their bedrooms, don't have clean, drinkable water in their schools, have drugs pushed at them and their kids, etc, etc. Yup.

They don't, however, have to overcome their skin color, they don't need to tell their kids that because of the color of their skin that they need to keep their hands firmly on the wheel of the car when a police man approaches them for driving through a white neighborhood. ETC.

And of course, the likelihood of growing up as I described is far higher if you are non-white, non-asian, than if you are white. why? Because of many decades of Jim Crow and racial redlining both governmentally sanctioned and non-governmental.

I quite agree about immigration, but you're saying come one, come all.
Since when have we remotely accepted all legal applicants???

And Trump, of course, wants to reduce legal immigration, not just illegal.

You're missing my point completely, this is about as simply as I can put it, if the Dems want to win, the words racist, bigot, and white privilege need to come out of their mouths far less frequently. Remember DocB's post during the last run....racist, bigot, misogynistic, white privilege, the white man's days are done? All of that back fired and it will again.
What do we do about the people at the border? If one is of the opinion that they can't all just come in and stay, does that make him/her a racist abd bigot? That's what the Dem's message seems to be to me. They better figure out a better way to deal with it than calling all the people like me a racist and bigot....that kind of thing is exactly what drove people to Trump. If you don't learn from history, and all that.

Not arguing with you but the guy won by 800,000 votes and had Russia working on the campaign along with a robust voter suppression effort. Not sure if Trump won because people were tired of the above.

[holmes435]

I'm getting real tired of hearing how none of us ever experienced hardships and life was just an easy road for us all because we were born white.

This is what a lot of people miss about the term "white privilege." "White privilege" doesn't mean your life was easy, or that you were necessarily handed anything.

It means the color of your skin had little or nothing to do with problems you have faced in life.

[DMac]

How many who use white privilege mean it that way today? White privilege means you can't possibly understand how tough other than whites have had it, and you're inherently racist as a result of your white privilege, the way I hear it (too often).

[holmes435]

Since when have we remotely accepted all legal applicants???

Recently enough in our history for many to think it helps their talking points: "My grandparents immigrated legally, why can't others?"

I had ancestors come over on the Mayflower, in some were in Jamestown, and I had others come just a couple of generations back fleeing Russian imperialism who legally immigrated.

They filled out some forms, sat on a boat for two weeks in quarantine and bam, they were citizens. Two whole weeks even. My great-grandparents immigrated here legally, is it so hard to ask others to do the same thing?

[Typical Lax Dad]

How many who use white privilege mean it that way today? White privilege means you can't possibly understand how tough other than whites have had it, and you're inherently racist as a result of your white privilege, the way I hear it (too often).

Actually a friend of mine's daughter told him that their lives have been shaped by "white privilege". He said he didn't know where that came from. She went to an all girls HS.... Later that day, she ordered a $15.00 veggie burger Calvert, Bryn Mawr and off to a private college..... We laughed about it. She is going to turn 40 one day and her outlook may change but until then, it's nice to see that spirit. A good example of white privilege is not being stopped to ask where you are going when meeting friends at a hotel..... When 6 guys meet at a hotel and the black guy is the only one stopped, the guy stopping and asking the question isn't racist. The white guys are shocked when they get a phone call verifying the guy is there to meet them. They are shocked because nobody else was stopped..... The black guy just isn't afforded the same privilege.... again the guy stopping and asking questions is not racist. His thoughts have been conditioned and he is not even aware of it.

[CU88]

Apparently Salty doesn’t like having his Trumpism pointed out. He claims to not like Trump, didn’t vote for him but darn if near everything he contributes on here isn’t another attempt to normalize the creep that currently inhabits the Oval Office. Just ain’t buying it, that dog don’t hunt.

Point out this BS and he feels stifled. SAD

Salty, yes you Can do something about it . Vote him out of office!
Meanwhile, call on the GOP to grow a spine and repudiate him.

You still haven't figured out how Trump highjacked the GOP & why he still has it in a strangle hold.

1. One of the most persistent myths in politics is that Trump is an aberration for the Republican party.

Republicans, including the Republican establishment, do not oppose Trump.

He is the one they've been waiting for.