All Things China

[MDlaxfan76]

Quoted for posterity

Thanks for the explanation.
I wish I was wrong.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6124 ... arms-race/

China will fold any day now!

[a fan]

BTW, China's a serious, long term strategic issue.

What annoys me the most is the stupidity of short term bluster about them, pretending to be tough, but in reality exposing fear and weakness.

The 'China issue' requires long term, strategic investments that leverage the best creative capabilities of our system, while recognizing that we also have inherent weaknesses (most notably our short term political processes).

We can compete with an emergent powerhouse China, but we need to stop thinking short term.

You are like dust in the wind....help me understand where Trump evah said this is short term?

He said that they are easy to win. Add in the fact that America has elections, and there you go. If Trump loses the election, he's obviously lost the Trade War, savvy?

China knows this. Hell, everyone but doe-eyed Trump fans know this.

What was unexpected by idiots at Wall Street----and if this doesn't tell you that these people aren't half as smart as they think they are, nothing will----was that China has refused, so far, to hand Trump his token, nonsense win. See: Canada, Mexico and the fake new NAFTA. Wall St. anticipated China would simply give Trump his pointless fake win so that they could move on with their lives.

Nope. So when I ask: now what? And no one has an answer other than "patience". Which means, of course, "hope it all works out". Not exactly what I'd call top shelf strategy.

[old salt]

BTW, China's a serious, long term strategic issue.

What annoys me the most is the stupidity of short term bluster about them, pretending to be tough, but in reality exposing fear and weakness.

The 'China issue' requires long term, strategic investments that leverage the best creative capabilities of our system, while recognizing that we also have inherent weaknesses (most notably our short term political processes).

We can compete with an emergent powerhouse China, but we need to stop thinking short term.

You are like dust in the wind....help me understand where Trump evah said this is short term?

I didn't say that Trump claimed that it is a 'short term' issue, just that he has numerous times said that he (alone) can fix it, no problemo.

Trade wars are easy to win. Quick. Bring them to their knees.

Idiot.

What I AM saying is that the issue is serious, but it requires long term strategic investments, not short term bluster.

The Chinese are long term oriented, very strategic, with the benefit of a system that enables them to withstand short term pain without loss of control. They are able to swiftly implement policies, including heavy investments in infrastructure both in China and all over the world. Heavy investment in building the human capital and technologies of the future.

We have the advantage of being far more creative and adaptive; we need to leverage these advantages, but also recognize that we're in a global race requiring long term strategic investments.

Right now, we've been sitting fat and happy, pleased with our world dominance, failing to make those strategic investments.

And this BS policy of trade battles are a huge waste of energy. All bluster.

...but China is still regarded by the WTO as a developing country, & playing by those rules.
We've been hearing your globalist pablum happy talk for 3 decades. That's what got us into this situation.
Perot & Buchanan were right. The Chinese Communists have become more cosmopolitan, but they haven't liberalized (witness Hong Kong). They've just stolen our secrets, siphoned our wealth & jobs, & become more adept thieves & oppressors.

[a fan]

Perot & Buchanan were right.

And the actual leftist Dems, and the actual, real left. They warned America's bottom 75% earners---and they didn't listen.

The Chinese Communists have become more cosmopolitan, but they haven't liberalized (witness Hong Kong). They've just stolen our secrets, siphoned our wealth & jobs, & become more adept thieves & oppressors.

Sure they've liberalized. Just not as much as we'd like. And you're leaving out 50 years of peace with a "Communist" (again: not really) country with nuclear arms. This is no small thing.

[old salt]

Perot & Buchanan were right.

And the actual leftist Dems, and the actual, real left. They warned America's bottom 75% earners---and they didn't listen.

The Chinese Communists have become more cosmopolitan, but they haven't liberalized (witness Hong Kong). They've just stolen our secrets, siphoned our wealth & jobs, & become more adept thieves & oppressors.

Sure they've liberalized. Just not as much as we'd like. And you're leaving out 50 years of peace with a "Communist" (again: not really) country with nuclear arms. This is no small thing.

I agree that things are better now diplomatically with China, but not militarily,
...& we got snookered on trade, tech transfer, & IP theft, in the process.
obtw, we had over 70 years of peace with the Communist USSR, ...but we don't seem to know the difference.

[youthathletics]

BTW, China's a serious, long term strategic issue.

What annoys me the most is the stupidity of short term bluster about them, pretending to be tough, but in reality exposing fear and weakness.

The 'China issue' requires long term, strategic investments that leverage the best creative capabilities of our system, while recognizing that we also have inherent weaknesses (most notably our short term political processes).

We can compete with an emergent powerhouse China, but we need to stop thinking short term.

You are like dust in the wind....help me understand where Trump evah said this is short term?

He said that they are easy to win. Add in the fact that America has elections, and there you go. If Trump loses the election, he's obviously lost the Trade War, savvy?

China knows this. Hell, everyone but doe-eyed Trump fans know this.

What was unexpected by idiots at Wall Street----and if this doesn't tell you that these people aren't half as smart as they think they are, nothing will----was that China has refused, so far, to hand Trump his token, nonsense win. See: Canada, Mexico and the fake new NAFTA. Wall St. anticipated China would simply give Trump his pointless fake win so that they could move on with their lives.

Nope. So when I ask: now what? And no one has an answer other than "patience". Which means, of course, "hope it all works out". Not exactly what I'd call top shelf strategy.

An election cycle "should" not change matters, assuming we do not get a deep left wing progressive. Schumer is on Trumps side, which "should"be telling for the next administration that follows Trump. Trump is not on an island....at least on this topic.

[Typical Lax Dad]

BTW, China's a serious, long term strategic issue.

What annoys me the most is the stupidity of short term bluster about them, pretending to be tough, but in reality exposing fear and weakness.

The 'China issue' requires long term, strategic investments that leverage the best creative capabilities of our system, while recognizing that we also have inherent weaknesses (most notably our short term political processes).

We can compete with an emergent powerhouse China, but we need to stop thinking short term.

You are like dust in the wind....help me understand where Trump evah said this is short term?

He said that they are easy to win. Add in the fact that America has elections, and there you go. If Trump loses the election, he's obviously lost the Trade War, savvy?

China knows this. Hell, everyone but doe-eyed Trump fans know this.

What was unexpected by idiots at Wall Street----and if this doesn't tell you that these people aren't half as smart as they think they are, nothing will----was that China has refused, so far, to hand Trump his token, nonsense win. See: Canada, Mexico and the fake new NAFTA. Wall St. anticipated China would simply give Trump his pointless fake win so that they could move on with their lives.

Nope. So when I ask: now what? And no one has an answer other than "patience". Which means, of course, "hope it all works out". Not exactly what I'd call top shelf strategy.

An election cycle "should" not change matters, assuming we do not get a deep left wing progressive. Schumer is on Trumps side, which "should"be telling for the next administration that follows Trump. Trump is not on an island....at least on this topic.

Jesus Christ. That’s what people sit around and watch and more incredibly believe what is being sold? A page out of your book....Schumer may be walking him to the end of the plank...

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/ ... na-1322691

Tangent question, when did the “minority party” become known as the “opposition party”?

[Brooklyn]

Am watching the Hong Kong protests on online TV. Unlike Ferguson, Missouri, the cops have shown remarkable restraint despite the continued disruptive protests. Those trouble makers should get a job and clear the streets of their illegal and disruptive tactics. Am surprised American right wingers aren't calling for that like they do when Americans hold similar rallies.

[youthathletics]

BTW, China's a serious, long term strategic issue.

What annoys me the most is the stupidity of short term bluster about them, pretending to be tough, but in reality exposing fear and weakness.

The 'China issue' requires long term, strategic investments that leverage the best creative capabilities of our system, while recognizing that we also have inherent weaknesses (most notably our short term political processes).

We can compete with an emergent powerhouse China, but we need to stop thinking short term.

You are like dust in the wind....help me understand where Trump evah said this is short term?

He said that they are easy to win. Add in the fact that America has elections, and there you go. If Trump loses the election, he's obviously lost the Trade War, savvy?

China knows this. Hell, everyone but doe-eyed Trump fans know this.

What was unexpected by idiots at Wall Street----and if this doesn't tell you that these people aren't half as smart as they think they are, nothing will----was that China has refused, so far, to hand Trump his token, nonsense win. See: Canada, Mexico and the fake new NAFTA. Wall St. anticipated China would simply give Trump his pointless fake win so that they could move on with their lives.

Nope. So when I ask: now what? And no one has an answer other than "patience". Which means, of course, "hope it all works out". Not exactly what I'd call top shelf strategy.

An election cycle "should" not change matters, assuming we do not get a deep left wing progressive. Schumer is on Trumps side, which "should"be telling for the next administration that follows Trump. Trump is not on an island....at least on this topic.

Jesus Christ. That’s what people sit around and watch and more incredibly believe what is being sold? A page out of your book....Schumer may be walking him to the end of the plank...

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/ ... na-1322691

Tangent question, when did the “minority party” become known as the “opposition party”?

I intentionally posted that link.. I could have picked the clip where it came directly from Schumer, but that would have gotten no response.

[Typical Lax Dad]

BTW, China's a serious, long term strategic issue.

What annoys me the most is the stupidity of short term bluster about them, pretending to be tough, but in reality exposing fear and weakness.

The 'China issue' requires long term, strategic investments that leverage the best creative capabilities of our system, while recognizing that we also have inherent weaknesses (most notably our short term political processes).

We can compete with an emergent powerhouse China, but we need to stop thinking short term.

You are like dust in the wind....help me understand where Trump evah said this is short term?

He said that they are easy to win. Add in the fact that America has elections, and there you go. If Trump loses the election, he's obviously lost the Trade War, savvy?

China knows this. Hell, everyone but doe-eyed Trump fans know this.

What was unexpected by idiots at Wall Street----and if this doesn't tell you that these people aren't half as smart as they think they are, nothing will----was that China has refused, so far, to hand Trump his token, nonsense win. See: Canada, Mexico and the fake new NAFTA. Wall St. anticipated China would simply give Trump his pointless fake win so that they could move on with their lives.

Nope. So when I ask: now what? And no one has an answer other than "patience". Which means, of course, "hope it all works out". Not exactly what I'd call top shelf strategy.

An election cycle "should" not change matters, assuming we do not get a deep left wing progressive. Schumer is on Trumps side, which "should"be telling for the next administration that follows Trump. Trump is not on an island....at least on this topic.

Jesus Christ. That’s what people sit around and watch and more incredibly believe what is being sold? A page out of your book....Schumer may be walking him to the end of the plank...

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/ ... na-1322691

Tangent question, when did the “minority party” become known as the “opposition party”?

I intentionally posted that link.. I could have picked the clip where it came directly from Schumer, but that would have gotten no response.

I don’t know many people that don’t think we should do something regarding China and fair trade. I made that argument 25 years ago...It’s the execution and the effectiveness of the tariffs and going it alone is the issue. TPP was an attempt at building a real coalition My comment was on the general content of the interview. So warped it’s hard to believe but this is where we are as a society.

[Typical Lax Dad]

For posterity:

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the- ... ip-3305581

[a fan]

obtw, we had over 70 years of peace with the Communist USSR, ...but we don't seem to know the difference.

True, but we haven't been doing duck and cover drills because of the Chinese nuclear threat. Or airing things like "the Day After" scaring the firetruck out of American kids that the sword of Damocles was forever hanging over our head because of China.

That's what I meant. Poor choice of words on my part.

[a fan]

Trump is not on an island....at least on this topic.

Yes. Yes, he is.

Any allies in line for this trade war? Trump bother trying to work with one single ally? Or demanding WTO members enforce their own rules? Nope.

Prices are going up, folks. Now that may not matter to many of us here, as we don't depend on cheap prices to keep our households running......but all the major retailers are warning of, or already executing, price hikes.

And since we're playing games with the Fed with keeping interest rates unnecessarily low, keeping inflation in check will be more difficult than in years past.

[youthathletics]

Trump is not on an island....at least on this topic.

Yes. Yes, he is.

Any allies in line for this trade war? Trump bother trying to work with one single ally? Or demanding WTO members enforce their own rules? Nope.

Prices are going up, folks. Now that may not matter to many of us here, as we don't depend on cheap prices to keep our households running......but all the major retailers are warning of, or already executing, price hikes.

And since we're playing games with the Fed, keeping inflation in check will be more difficult than in years past.

You moved the goal post by only snipping part of the conversation. My comment that you grabbed was in regard to your earlier comment ‘paraphrased’ that poof, the next election could change all this. To which my reply was Schumer is on board.....making it somewhat bi-partisan.

[a fan]

Ah, got it. Thought you were speaking globally (literally). My apologies.

As for the next election---that can change the Senate calculus, too. Another reason for China to wait until November 2020.

Remember, even if Trump can get new Trade Deal, the Senate has to ratify it.

[old salt]

Ah, got it. Thought you were speaking globally (literally). My apologies.

As for the next election---that can change the Senate calculus, too. Another reason for China to wait until November 2020.

Remember, even if Trump can get new Trade Deal, the Senate has to ratify it.

If we have a (D) Prez in '21, she/he is going to have a tough time just lifting the tariffs without something tangible in return & it will be closely scrutinized if it's Biden. No matter which party's prez makes a deal with China, the opposition party will say it's not enough.

Internationally, there are no allies when it comes to trade (other than the EU amongst themselves & NA @ NAFTA/USMCA), but who is going to be opposed to the US standing up to China to try to get them to play by the rules ?

[a fan]

If we have a (D) Prez in '21, she/he is going to have a tough time just lifting the tariffs without something tangible in return

Disagree. A BS win will work just fine. The 1% want to keep the party going. The 99% aren't calling the shots here. A nonsense, pointless concession is far more likely to end this mess than actual change to IP theft.

No matter which party's prez makes a deal with China, the opposition party will say it's not enough.

Yep. Just like the Iran deal. Welcome to party first, Nation second America.

Internationally, there are no allies when it comes to trade (other than the EU amongst themselves & NA @ NAFTA/USMCA).....

Again, disagree.

Nothing keeping Trump from starting more NAFTA-type Trade Agreements. He's elected not to do that. Make new deals that make China irrelevant. What he is doing makes no strategic sense. If he wants to stop trading with China over this stuff, great. So where are the new trade deals and/or domestic infrastructure bills that allows us to do that?

[MDlaxfan76]

Again, there’s no question that China will be a challenge for us for decades to come.

Right now we’re wasting time and allies on short term responses to a long term issue. All hat and no cattle.

The constant whining about how we’ve been snookered by the Chinese is an enormous fiction.

We’ve had the benefit of decades of way less expensive consumer goods coupled with a financial engine behind our debt. Even more importantly China has moved a totalitarian state with nuclear weapons desperate to find an outlet for its massive population, along with nuclear weapons, to a state run capitalist nation interdependent in the world and with an increasingly vibrant domestic economy.

Yes, China ‘s success ‘threatens’ the United States’ global hegemony, but the path forward needn’t be one of conflict but rather one of ongoing interdependence and positive competition.

But we DO need to focus on that competition, while not wasting energy being resentful of China’s success in parallel.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Again, there’s no question that China will be a challenge for us for decades to come.

Right now we’re wasting time and allies on short term responses to a long term issue. All hat and no cattle.

The constant whining about how we’ve been snookered by the Chinese is an enormous fiction.

We’ve had the benefit of decades of way less expensive consumer goods coupled with a financial engine behind our debt. Even more importantly China has moved a totalitarian state with nuclear weapons desperate to find an outlet for its massive population, along with nuclear weapons, to a state run capitalist nation interdependent in the world and with an increasingly vibrant domestic economy.

Yes, China ‘s success ‘threatens’ the United States’ global hegemony, but the path forward needn’t be one of conflict but rather one of ongoing interdependence and positive competition.

But we DO need to focus on that competition, while not wasting energy being resentful of China’s success in parallel.

In an effort to maximize shareholder value, US companies set up Chinese manufacturing abroad. China didn’t steal US jobs. We sent them there like we did with Japan, Korea and Mexico. I recall a small parts manufacturer telling me that he could not compete in 2002 because the competition was bringing in parts from China and selling them in 2002, at his company’s 1958 price....we were happy to save $1.00 on a pack of underwear from Walmart via China. I used to argue that it was short sighted and that we need to consider the impact on the US citizens as a whole instead of a sliver of it. Like, Japan and Korea, China is moving forward. TPP was a strategic effort to combat China. Too bad Obama signed off on it. We would love to have that kind of deal right about now.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/30/techno ... index.html

https://amp.scmp.com/economy/china-econ ... china-just

https://baysourceglobal.com/how-to-set- ... -in-china/

https://www.sellerlabs.com/blog/chinese ... ffordable/