Sensible Gun Safety

[youthathletics]

If people didn't have to be terrified of dudes with guns, these incidents wouldn't happen either.

But if the good citizens of open-carry states want to kill each other off, well, it's their choice.

Do you feel the same way about the good citizens in Chicago where they want to kill each other and are no open carry laws?

Let's be clear that "the good citizens of Chicago" absolutely don't want the violence. They're the victims.

Please let's not oversimplify or conflate these horrendous issues.

Are you also CU77, MDlaxfan76?

No; not sure why you'd even ask.
We don't seem to see this quite the same way.

Or are you just tweaking me for responding to your response to him?
I do see your point, that the 'good citizens of open-carry states' surely don't actually want to "kill each other off" too.
Many of them just want to be able to do so.

All good MD, just having some fun.

[DMac]

Not disagreeing, MDlax, walking in black isn't the same as walking in white. Was putting my described white guy in that store, with that manager/caller...everything the same except for my Confederate flag hat wearer. I'm not so sure this overreactor wouldn't have made the call on that guy too.

[MDlaxfan76]

Not disagreeing, MDlax, walking in black isn't the same as walking in white. Was putting my described white guy in that store, with that manager/caller...everything the same except for my Confederate flag hat wearer. I'm not so sure this overreactor wouldn't have made the call on that guy too.

Maybe.
But we don't seem to have much of an issue of driving while "Confederate".

I suspect the reaction might have been to actually take a closer look. Or call it in with more of a caveat that he wasn't actually doing anything particularly threatening.

[CU77]

Do you feel the same way about the good citizens in Chicago where they want to kill each other and are no open carry laws?

I want all guns out of private hands. So do most people in Chicago.

People in open-carry states mostly want to have their own guns to defend themselves, instead of relying on the state. More power to them. They should all be carrying, and wearing body armor, all the time.

[DMac]

Truth be told, you'd like all guns out of private hands nationwide, right?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Do you feel the same way about the good citizens in Chicago where they want to kill each other and are no open carry laws?

I want all guns out of private hands. So do most people in Chicago.

People in open-carry states mostly want to have their own guns to defend themselves, instead of relying on the state. More power to them. They should all be carrying, and wearing body armor, all the time.

Reduce the police force in open carry states. It will save money. People can defend themselves.

Look at this fool...

[seacoaster]

How about the courage to try something new, because the status quo is ruining lives:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

Five days had passed since the shooting, and some girls on the El Paso Fusion soccer team still felt numb. Some could not stop crying. Others refused to go outside.

Assistant Coach Benny McGuire had barely slept since the team’s fundraiser on Aug. 3 had dissolved into terror, since he yelled “Run!” and sprinted in a zigzag pattern through Walmart’s linens department as bullets flew.

One team grandparent was killed, five team parents were wounded, among them the head coach, who was shot multiple times.

Everyone knew the story — a white man from 10 hours away was accused of killing 22 people and wounding dozens of others in an attack that targeted “Mexicans” — but few wanted to talk about it. They wanted, instead, to discuss the reason the girls were there that morning, the reason for everything when you are 10 or 11 and love the beautiful game

They were raising money for their team, a ragtag band of girls that cared more about playing than winning, that had staved off dissolution because the players loved being together. The shooting came a week before the season’s playoffs, when sometimes pressure brought out the best in them, when anyone can take home the trophy.

But in tragedy came doubt and trepidation. Their parents could not decide whether the girls, traumatized, should play.

McGuire invited the team to a quiet pizzeria Thursday night for the players’ first gathering since the shootings, and he watched as they hugged, ate pepperoni slices, and laughed when professional players dropped in to autograph their jerseys.

Then McGuire called for silence.

“All right, girls, for real,” McGuire said. “Playoffs are coming. What do you girls want to do?"

....

McGuire could not believe it when his daughter Madison chose soccer, a sport he and her mother never played.

“You know it’s outside, right?” he said Madison’s mother asked when they discussed it.

Soccer is also expensive. Some can afford fancy uniforms and pricey trips to tournaments in California, Arizona, Tennessee. Others sell water, raffle tickets, and candy bars to get there. Some do their sales at Walmart, a popular destination for shoppers from both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border.

“That could’ve been anybody, any team out there,” said Mike Lopez, the director of another El Paso soccer league. “Tournament fees are not El Paso fees. So they have to do fundraisers.”

The girls dreamed of new ninja-like uniforms — black with a hot-pink stripe — to replace the pink and yellow candy-colored uniforms that head coach Luis Calvillo had picked out on his own. They were too long and looked like “Popsicles,” they teased him. They hoped for duffel bags, jackets, and to raise enough to pay the fees to attend a tournament in Arizona.

When a baseball team offered them its spot at one of the nation’s busiest shopping centers on Aug. 3, they jumped at the chance. Parents drew signs saying “thank you.” The girls wore blue jerseys. They sold bags of chips for $1 and drinks for $2.50. They set up morning and afternoon shifts, with girls and parents at both entrances.

They hoped to make $1,000 to $2,000, McGuire said.

The shots were fired — so many of them — an hour after they set up their tables, and parents and children frantically scattered. At one end, McGuire grabbed his daughter and other girls and they raced through the Walmart and out the back door to a movie theater parking lot, where he hid them behind a tree and returned to help the others.

On the far end of the store, some girls followed Jocelyn Davila, 14, a team member’s older sister, into the Walmart baked-goods section. Jocelyn said they pushed their way into an employee-only area and told the bewildered workers to crouch and be quiet.

Jorge Calvillo, one of the team’s first customers that day, was shot and killed.

Luis Calvillo, his son and an Army veteran, was shot multiple times, along with Jessica and Guillermo Garcia, a bearlike man nicknamed “Tank.” Also wounded were parents Maribel Latin, who posts the team’s photographs online, and Enrique Atilano, a U.S. Marine who served two tours in Iraq.

Some parents were quickly released from the hospital, though they remain seriously injured.

Calvillo and Garcia, who ran the team and the practices, were hit multiple times and were the most critically wounded. They underwent several surgeries and might face more. Calvillo still has bullet fragments in his kidney and liver and is considered to be in stable condition. Garcia has a bullet in his back, possibly in his spine, and is in critical but stable condition."

Church? The Movies? The workplace? Concerts? Bars and clubs? Kids and their parents doing a fundraiser at Walmart? All on the altar of unfettered access to any gun you want, when you want it. Stop talking and try something.

[CU77]

Truth be told, you'd like all guns out of private hands nationwide, right?

Absolutely.

But if we're going to let every nutjob out there carry loaded guns around, then I want the right to arm myself to the teeth when I go to Walmart (like that guy in Missouri), so that I can defend myself.

Surely you agree with that.

[old salt]

Not disagreeing, MDlax, walking in black isn't the same as walking in white. Was putting my described white guy in that store, with that manager/caller...everything the same except for my Confederate flag hat wearer. I'm not so sure this overreactor wouldn't have made the call on that guy too.

Maybe.
But we don't seem to have much of an issue of driving while "Confederate".

[DMac]

Truth be told, you'd like all guns out of private hands nationwide, right?

Absolutely.

But if we're going to let every nutjob out there carry loaded guns around, then I want the right to arm myself to the teeth when I go to Walmart (like that guy in Missouri), so that I can defend myself.

Surely you agree with that.

I feel ya, 77, I really do.
The way you put it, yeah, it pretty much makes sense. 350,000,000 (or a whole lot more) guns out there, what to do???
Is this the biggest problem we have...the number of people killed by gun death? Is it the number of deaths or the bloodiness and ugliness of the deaths?
Your cup of tea, some stats:
Homicide, 7.3% (don't know how much is guns).
Unintentional 31%
Other, 27%
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing ... /16/deaths
Diabetes always ranks pretty strong as a cause of death in the US.
So what do we do there, raise the price of insulin?
If you can fix lunatic, you can probably fix gun deaths, cuz guns aren't a problem without lunatic. 350,000,000 (or a whole lot more) guns in the country pretty much proves the lunatic is the real concern, no?

In your day, 77, the advice was, head West, young man.
Well, Mr. Left Coast, now it's head North (even if you're not so young).

Canada
"The U.S.'s neighbor to the north also has outstandingly low gun casualty statistics. In 2009, there were 0.5 deaths per 100,000 from gun homicide — only 173 people. Still, the ownership is comparatively high — there are 23.8 firearms per 100 people in the country.

There is no legal right to possess arms in Canada. It takes sixty days to buy a gun there, and there is mandatory licensing for gun owners. Gun owners pursuing a license must have third-party references, take a safety training course and pass a background check with a focus on mental, criminal and addiction histories.

Licensing agents are required to advise an applicant's spouse or next-of-kin prior to granting a license, and licenses are denied to applicants with any past history of domestic violence. Buyers in private sales of weapons must pass official background checks.


Canadian civilians aren't allowed to possess automatic weapons, handguns with a barrel shorter than 10.5 cm or any modified handgun, rifle or shotgun. Most semi-automatic assault weapons are also banned. As a result of exemptions, several kinds of assault weapons are still legal in Canada, although this has been the source of some controversy."
https://www.businessinsider.com/canada- ... rol-2013-1

A diabetic would be better off up there on a couple of different levels, eh?
Guns aint going away for a long, long, time...could fix the insulin cost pretty quickly though.
Guns make more noise and get more attention....Big Pharma is killing more people than guns
by a long shot.

[wahoomurf]

Based on algorythms (sic) and your comments, guessing the AI "red flag" gun removal threat you most likely support would qualify you, waw waw Hoo, to have your guns removed. Think about it. Emmylou Rides Clarence West And Then South.

Russell: I couldn't agree more. You have created a Rosetta Stone that can easily guide "the powers that be" to address the gun control issue.BRAVO!

[CU77]

I feel ya, 77, I really do.
The way you put it, yeah, it pretty much makes sense. 350,000,000 (or a whole lot more) guns out there, what to do???

Ban sales of ammunition. Could be done by regulating it to the point where every bullet cost $1000.

Is this the biggest problem we have...the number of people killed by gun death? Is it the number of deaths or the bloodiness and ugliness of the deaths?

The latter, definitely. It's lives cut way short with zero warning. It's the fear it engenders nationwide: people panicking in Times Square because of a motorcycle backfire. (If you didn't read about this, google it: among other things, a performance of Hamilton got cut short because panicked people from outside burst into the theater, and the actors fled the stage.) Kids afraid to go to school. Nightmares. People in a Missouri Walmart panicking because a dude exercised his Constitutional right to keep himself safe. The other guy who got shot for picking up a pellet gun. Police refusing to respond to legit calls because they're afraid of "suicide by cop" (which they wouldn't be if they were the only ones with ammo).

Canada, yeah. I've seriously thought about it. I got a feeler about a potential job there some years back, but at the time I had a kid in high school who would have gone completely nuts if we'd moved her away from everything she knew (not to mention my wife away from her family). And now I'm too old and set in my ways to make a big move.

I just keep hoping that the West Coast governors are in secret negotiations with the nuke sub commanders in Bangor. With two nuke-armed subs, the West Coast could secede.

May have to split it down the middle north-south though, because there are plenty of gun nuts inland.

We're gonna need a big wall!

[DMac]

I feel ya, 77, I really do.
The way you put it, yeah, it pretty much makes sense. 350,000,000 (or a whole lot more) guns out there, what to do???

Ban sales of ammunition. Could be done by regulating it to the point where every bullet cost $1000.
The whole picture is a pretty tough spot any way you look at it but be careful with this one. Have already heard Elizabeth suggesting this path and I'd guess it's a good time to invest in ammo, just like it was when Barack and Hillary drove sales up. You might be shocked to know how much ammo a whole lot of gun owners have. Not hundreds of rounds but more likely thousands and even tens of thousands. This kind of talk will take it to hundreds of thousands to say nothing about what it will do for the black market. Didn't read this whole article, was just interested in this part and I lean toward believing these numbers:

I've also seen one that claims we have over 400 million guns and 24 trillion rounds of ammunition. The fact is, while there is no definitive way to tally all the firearms in the United States, it is commonly accepted and reported that there are roughly 300 million firearms in the hands of law-abiding Americans.

Is this the biggest problem we have...the number of people killed by gun death? Is it the number of deaths or the bloodiness and ugliness of the deaths?

The latter, definitely. It's lives cut way short with zero warning. It's the fear it engenders nationwide: people panicking in Times Square because of a motorcycle backfire. (If you didn't read about this, google it: among other things, a performance of Hamilton got cut short because panicked people from outside burst into the theater, and the actors fled the stage.) Kids afraid to go to school. Nightmares. People in a Missouri Walmart panicking because a dude exercised his Constitutional right to keep himself safe. The other guy who got lack of picking up a pellet gun. Police refusing to respond to legit calls because they're afraid of "suicide by cop" (which they wouldn't be if they were the only ones with ammo).
Yup, heard all about those incidents. Was talking to a gal at the store this morning, big horse gal, competes in competitions. The Great New York State Fair is right around the corner, she usually participates in some of the competitions but she's not going to this year...she's too scared to.

Canada, yeah. I've seriously thought about it. I got a feeler about a potential job there some years back, but at the time I had a kid in high school who would have gone completely nuts if we'd moved her away from everything she knew (not to mention my wife away from her family). And now I'm too old and set in my ways to make a big move.

I just keep hoping that the West Coast governors are in secret negotiations with the nuke sub commanders in Bangor. With two nuke-armed subs, the West Coast could secede.
The good news is, the likelihood of your seceding, or the whole state just falling into the ocean, is probably greater than the likelihood of your getting shot. The media and their ratings race fans the flames of frenzy and they do indeed get everyone fired up and scared.
What if we put some sort of restrcictions on how they cover these tragedies and drive the fear factor sky high? Maybe that would cut down on the copy cats, or stop a lunatic or two who knows he's going to get the attention of the entire nation? The 24/7 news business isn't helping things at all.

May have to split it down the middle north-south though, because there are plenty of gun nuts inland.

We're gonna need a big wall!
Might need a boat and some scuba gear too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU
Poor Robin (no gun), he was just hilarious.

[CU77]

What if we put some sort of restrictions on how they cover these tragedies and drive the fear factor sky high?

We'd have to repeal the First Amendment to do that. I'd rather repeal the Second.

[CU77]

Conservative commentator S. E. Cupp quits the NRA: “We must do something about guns”

https://www.salon.com/2019/08/12/conser ... bout-guns/

[CU77]

A friend of the gunman who killed nine people outside a Dayton, Ohio, bar last week told authorities he bought body armor and equipment for the attacker and helped him assemble the weapon used in the rampage, according to a court filing unsealed Monday.

Those details were included in a criminal complaint charging the friend — Ethan Kollie, 24 — with two counts related to his purchase and possession of firearms. Neither count relates to the shooting itself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

What a crock that this guy gets arrested! Every gun owner ought to be helping their friends acquire guns and body armor! How else are the friends going to lawfully protect themselves and their loved ones from the crazy nutjobs??? We obviously can't rely on the police to do it!

(OK, now I'm being sarcastic. But, honestly, isn't this the society that you gun lovers want? Every man woman and child protecting themselves 24/7 with body armor and lethal defensive weapons?)

[DMac]

Conservative commentator S. E. Cupp quits the NRA: “We must do something about guns”

https://www.salon.com/2019/08/12/conser ... out-guns/s

This is what I get from your link:
404
Whoops! The page you're looking for does not exist.

We get by with a little help from our friends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZDp6E-goT8

[CU77]

Thanks DMac!

That "s" after the last slash was a typo. I've fixed my original post.

[CU77]

From tonight's Los Angeles Times:

A California Highway Patrol officer was killed and two other officers were wounded in a wild shootout Monday evening off the 215 Freeway in Riverside that left the gunman dead and motorists dodging bullets.
…
Jennifer Moctezuma, 31, of Moreno Valley was driving home with her 6-year-old twins when a bullet flew through her front windshield.

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... e-response

I am so sick and tired of reading about these bad parents.

Ms. Moctezuma should have had herself and her kids in full body armor!

Certainly we can't interfere with the 2nd amendment rights of the shooter before he commits a crime.

[get it to x]

Studies have shown that guns in the hands of responsible citizens save more than 80 times the number of lives lost to gun crimes. I don’t own a gun but I feel secure knowing criminals aren’t sure whether I do or not. If you take everyone’s gun away criminals will be emboldened. They will still have guns as they ignore our laws.

Also, for you feminists, a handgun is the ultimate equalizer for a 110 lb woman against a 250 lb assailant.

Thinking about getting a pump action shotgun and never loading it. Just the sound of racking the slide should give pause to an intruder.