Sensible Gun Safety

[ABV 8.3%]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/07/opinions ... index.html

Something to think about.

That's a clever idea. Follow the Constitution.

Within a 25 mile radious, there are dozens of sportsman clubs and shooting ranges.

https://www.westonshootersclub.com/


The US Constitution does mention "militia", but since when do we really care about the words?

[ABV 8.3%]

No, I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm saying there's only a percent who are infantrymen and those are the guys who shoot guns (they all get some weapons training), supply guys, mechanics, etc aren't really infantrymen unless we're in real trouble and they're the last men standing (they all can put barbed wire up along a border though).

"Hey, Bosun, rig me up, I'm goin' over."
"Think I remember how to do that, Chief, been workin' on hittin' that bullseye lately"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sMT_sV9Ino

Just drop the rifle range component of boot camp, than.

Active duty military NOT doing hand held weapons training, at least every 1/4, is pathetic. DMAC, I guess you are angry that we keep on spending and spending for our military, but the guns and ammo are never used?

Guess they don't need all that extra money that RINO Trump is spending?

[MDlaxfan76]

Lemons idea is stupid, sorry to be offensive. One weekend a month; 2 weeks per year; plus retirement - now who is gonna pay for that? Free college; free healthcare; increased min wage; and let's throw in a living wage even if no one is working- did I miss something? Tax the rich, NOPE, just create more LLC's.

DMac, rolled out of seat on person going over deck. Freshman (Doolie) year at AFA - 10 meter tower, jump, boots off, pants become a flotation device, hang around for 30 minutes then dive under walking deck and home free, thankfully no sharks - had to do it a few times, because I might be on a carrier, seriously I am going to be an AF fighter pilot when would I ever be on a deck . Flight school - high blood pressure; Sunnyvale and Blue Cube - Challenger blows, payload blows, sitting on hands for 6 months; change AFSC as I have an obligation to pay the taxpayer back - can jump out of planes not fly them and would you not know, a couple of years later, 2 nights on a carrier . Chopper in and out. Still chuckle on that one. BTW, chow was pretty good and far superior to the MRE

Actually, it was not Don Lemon's idea. The article was written by Jeff Yang.

But let's just play it out a little more. Who said that being in a 'well regulated Militia' was necessarily a paid gig? But let's say that we do pay folks during their time of service...is that really so awful, if the result is that folks actually learn to handle their duties in a crisis, including the capacity to utilize their weapons? It's not as if some actual work couldn't be done beyond just the training.

It's not compulsory, it's volunteer, with one 'benefit' being that you get to be able to own a weapon. I'd still keep the assault style weapons, along with the bazookas, locked up in the armory, though. No need to have them except in a crisis.

And, if you can't pass the mental health exam to qualify for and continue to be in the reserves, then you darn sure shouldn't be rocking a gun at home.

What am I missing?

[Matnum PI]

https://twitter.com/Robert_E_Kelly/stat ... 42689?s=03

[seacoaster]

Well, here you go:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

"President Trump has repeatedly told lawmakers and aides in private conversations that he is open to endorsing extensive background checks in the wake of two mass shootings, prompting a warning from the National Rifle Association and concerns among White House aides, according to lawmakers and administration officials.

Trump, speaking to reporters Wednesday before visiting Dayton, Ohio, and El Paso, where weekend shootings left 31 dead, said there “was great appetite for background checks” amid an outcry over government inaction in the face of repeated mass shootings.

Trump’s previous declarations of support for tougher gun controls, including after the deadly Parkland, Fla., shooting in February 2018, have foundered without a sustained push from the president and support from the NRA or Republican lawmakers. Even Trump’s advisers question how far he will go on any effort.

NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre spoke with Trump on Tuesday after the president expressed support for a background check bill and told him it would not be popular among Trump’s supporters, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to freely discuss internal talks. LaPierre also argued against the bill’s merits, the officials said.

The NRA, which opposes the legislation sponsored by Sens. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) and Joe Manchin III (D-W.Va.), declined to comment.

Advisers to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said he would not bring any gun-control legislation to the floor without widespread Republican support. Trump has waffled, current and past White House officials say, between wanting to do more and growing concerned that doing so could prompt a revolt from his political base. Even some supporters of the Manchin-Toomey bill, which would expand background checks to nearly all firearm sales, say it is unlikely to pass.

....

A White House official said Trump had asked some advisers and lawmakers this week about whether the NRA had enduring clout amid an internal leadership battle and allegations of improper spending, as well as what his supporters would think of the bill. The Washington Post reported this week that LaPierre sought to have the NRA buy him a $6 million mansion in a gated Dallas-area golf club after the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, in which 17 students and staff members were killed.

Toomey said he has spoken with the president at least three times since the weekend shootings. He declined to elaborate on the conversations, although he stressed that Trump hasn’t specifically endorsed the bill. Their conversations have been more general, he said, but Toomey noted that they had been “encouraging” and “very recent.”

“I will just tell you generally the president is open-minded about this,” Toomey said.

Some measures — such as a ban on assault weapons — have been ruled out, White House officials and legislative aides say. Recent polls indicate a majority of Americans support some form of a ban on assault rifles, though there is a large partisan divide and fewer than half of Republicans support such measures.A July NPR-PBS NewsHour-Marist poll found 57 percent of the public supported a ban on “the sale of semiautomatic assault guns, such as the AK-47 or the AR-15.” Fewer than 3 in 10 Republicans supported the proposal, rising to a slight majority of independents and more than 8 in 10 Democrats.

“There’s no political space for that,” Graham said. “So I don’t think he’s going to go down that road.”

However, about 9 in 10 Americans support requiring background checks for all gun purchases, including more than 8 in 10 Republicans, Democrats and independents, according to polling.

Trump was vague about what he would do in his comments Wednesday, and current and former White House officials said he is often ambivalent on what he should do after shootings.

After the Parkland shooting, Trump expressed support for background checks for gun purchases and greater police power to seize guns from mentally disturbed people. But he faced significant resistance from the NRA and Republicans and abandoned the ideas.

On Air Force One after the October 2017 shooting in Las Vegas that left 58 dead, Trump said he wanted to enact a law to keep such shootings from happening again and would question others for ideas but did not have specific proposals.

After shootings, Trump regularly would poll aides about what measures would have political support, but if they did not gain backing, he was not inclined to lead the charge.

“He would not be blocking it, but he’s not going to be the one forcing it to happen,” one official said."

[seacoaster]

https://twitter.com/Robert_E_Kelly/stat ... 42689?s=03

Exactly; unrestricted and unrestrictable gun access is required over public safety. This is the balancing test that the Gun Lobby wants -- which is to say, no balancing at all.

[ggait]

However, about 9 in 10 Americans support requiring background checks for all gun purchases, including more than 8 in 10 Republicans, Democrats and independents, according to polling.

But the 9 people are not going to be single issue voters. The 1 person probably is going to be a single issue voter.

Minorities strongly focused on issues like abortion or guns routinely defeat much larger (but less focused) majorities.

[DMac]

No, I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm saying there's only a percent who are infantrymen and those are the guys who shoot guns (they all get some weapons training), supply guys, mechanics, etc aren't really infantrymen unless we're in real trouble and they're the last men standing (they all can put barbed wire up along a border though).

"Hey, Bosun, rig me up, I'm goin' over."
"Think I remember how to do that, Chief, been workin' on hittin' that bullseye lately"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sMT_sV9Ino

Just drop the rifle range component of boot camp, than.

Active duty military NOT doing hand held weapons training, at least every 1/4, is pathetic. DMAC, I guess you are angry that we keep on spending and spending for our military, but the guns and ammo are never used?

Guess they don't need all that extra money that RINO Trump is spending?

Idon't know if they have or not but I wouldn't be surprised if the Navy and Air Force already have dropped the rifle range component. Even if they haven't, the one day you spend firing a couple of rounds down range sure as hell doesn't make one a marksman or one who is comfortable or competent with a gun.

I spent eight years in the military, minus a Southeast Asia tour I was never around guns, nor were any of the other thousands of people I served with. Quarterly hand held weapons training is not something the vast majority of the people in the military do...think Navy and Air Force, Coast Guard too. With less than one percent of the population serving in the military there are a whole lot of people who are clueless about what it's like to be in or what those who are in do. A whole lot of people think that people in uniform are fighting men, that's hardly the case. Most of them are trained in more technical fields, even a Gunners Mate in the Navy isn't shooting hand held weapons, and they're not making any quarterly trips to the firing range either. If Mr. Yang suggested joining the ARMY reserves or National Guard as an INFANTRYMAN, maybe it would make at least a little bit of sense, but I'm guessing he's as clueless about the military as most other folks are.

I don't even know what your comment about my being angry about our military spending money on guns and ammo that isn't being used means. Mr. Yang's idea is not well thought out and idiotic, that's all I'm saying.

[DMac]

Lemons idea is stupid, sorry to be offensive. One weekend a month; 2 weeks per year; plus retirement - now who is gonna pay for that? Free college; free healthcare; increased min wage; and let's throw in a living wage even if no one is working- did I miss something? Tax the rich, NOPE, just create more LLC's.

DMac, rolled out of seat on person going over deck. Freshman (Doolie) year at AFA - 10 meter tower, jump, boots off, pants become a flotation device, hang around for 30 minutes then dive under walking deck and home free, thankfully no sharks - had to do it a few times, because I might be on a carrier, seriously I am going to be an AF fighter pilot when would I ever be on a deck . Flight school - high blood pressure; Sunnyvale and Blue Cube - Challenger blows, payload blows, sitting on hands for 6 months; change AFSC as I have an obligation to pay the taxpayer back - can jump out of planes not fly them and would you not know, a couple of years later, 2 nights on a carrier . Chopper in and out. Still chuckle on that one. BTW, chow was pretty good and far superior to the MRE

Yes sir, pretty damn good chow on a carrier (despite all the b*tching you hear...guess that's what most think you're supposed to do), plenty of it too.
Yup, the pants as a flotation device (that's why sailors wore bell bottoms...easier to get off in the water) works like a champ and is required learning in the Navy.
Funny story (to me anyway), kid in my company (real nice kid, still remember his name, Bob Schaffer) had never in his life jumped in the water...unbelievable to me, but... He was nervous as hell the day we had to get on the diving board and do it. I took him under my arm a little and tried to help him with his confidence and let him know there's nothing hard about this. Gotta give him a whole lot of credit, he got on the board and jumped (he had to go back and learn how to swim and do the pants thing but ultimately he made it). When we got back he was describing the experience to me...and he stuttered a little bit. He said when I got in the water I opened my eyes and there was, there was, wat, wat, water everywhere!!! Had to be there but that was funny.

[LandM]

MD,
Thank you for the author correction.

So let's play this out. Time value of money. Say I am a rancher, a reserve duty unless changed is one weekend a month, two weeks a year and I would have to confirm with my brother retirement pension based on rank at 62 (I Think), you gonna increase your tax dollars to pay for all of that? Who is managing the ranch when I am away, jr. jr is under 18. I learned to drive a tractor at 12 and drove a car around town at 14 and finally got my license at 17. Your tax dollars will have to make sure jr can drive said combines; truck; horse or whatever means of transportation required so no loss of revenue to ranch. Further compounded by jr having a gun so he needs to do his compulsory service - really a kid in the military, gonna send him over to fight ISIS? Compound that by multiple guns owned by said owners when does the rancher get to ranch? Now let's up the game - Indigenous folks in Alaska - the gun is how they eat and surprisingly many folks in Upstate, NY do the same, serve time, family does not eat. To show my naivete - been to NY 100 hundred times, still cannot hail a cab, do not understand why people live there but I respect their individual decision.

[LandM]

MD,
Last thought - there are also height and weight restrictions - how would you propose to enforce that?

DMac,
Water - ff'ing funny. First jump - free fall - first guy out the door was a weight lifter - 5'8" 200 and was tape tested monthly - he obviously did not make peace with his maker as he ran to the back, instructors grab him by pack, drag him and throw him out the door. Tumbling is not a good experience but we all knew the altimeter would save him. We never saw him again but assume he has a high pitched voice and no kids Sorry it just brought back a memory.
Best

[old salt]

Lemons idea is stupid, sorry to be offensive. One weekend a month; 2 weeks per year; plus retirement - now who is gonna pay for that? Free college; free healthcare; increased min wage; and let's throw in a living wage even if no one is working- did I miss something? Tax the rich, NOPE, just create more LLC's.

DMac, rolled out of seat on person going over deck. Freshman (Doolie) year at AFA - 10 meter tower, jump, boots off, pants become a flotation device, hang around for 30 minutes then dive under walking deck and home free, thankfully no sharks - had to do it a few times, because I might be on a carrier, seriously I am going to be an AF fighter pilot when would I ever be on a deck . Flight school - high blood pressure; Sunnyvale and Blue Cube - Challenger blows, payload blows, sitting on hands for 6 months; change AFSC as I have an obligation to pay the taxpayer back - can jump out of planes not fly them and would you not know, a couple of years later, 2 nights on a carrier . Chopper in and out. Still chuckle on that one. BTW, chow was pretty good and far superior to the MRE

.. ...& you were qualified to jump off the hangar deck elevator & swim beneath the burning oil, in case the carrier was attacked.

They thought of every contingency at Zoomie U.

[LandM]

yes us boys in blue were well trained - I am just sitting here laughing my arse off - too bad no merit badge or certification

[CU77]

So let's play this out. Time value of money.

It's so amazing to me that all you "can-do" Republicans, who otherwise praise innovation and entrepreneurship and rolling-up-your-sleeves to solve problems, suddenly stick your heads up your a**es when it comes to the gun slaughter problem, and declare that there is absolutely positively nothing to be done, nope, that idea's not gonna work, and not that one, and not that one either, and, nope, we don't have any ideas of our own. We're just gonna stand around and watch our first-grade kids get blown away by weapons of mass destruction wielded by sociopathic terrorists, because that flintlock pistol amendment, you know, can't do a thing about it.

[jhu72]

However, about 9 in 10 Americans support requiring background checks for all gun purchases, including more than 8 in 10 Republicans, Democrats and independents, according to polling.

But the 9 people are not going to be single issue voters. The 1 person probably is going to be a single issue voter.

Minorities strongly focused on issues like abortion or guns routinely defeat much larger (but less focused) majorities.

Yup.

[LandM]

CU77,
First, I am an independent - I vote for the person not the label - here is an idea - let the I's select which primary to vote in and let them cast one vote either R or D for now - might have different caste of people;

Second, do a more thorough background check - people can wait an extra few days if they have nothing to hide. Make it a three week process or whatever amount time authorities need. TSA is a pain in the arse, do I think it is effective - NOPE. IMHO when your time is up, your time is up and no law enforcement agency is going to buy me extra time and I refuse to live in fear of some nutjob but if people feel better, go for it;

Third, mental health - that to me is the issue. This country worries more about the 90 year mom then the 15 year old kid who might be struggling and since both parents work, he/she gets no attention.......how are you gonna fix that. Excluding LV, these are young people who have acted out and the police cannot do anything - why - we have laws - maybe tweak the laws or actually get rid of a few, free college means free mentors, some of these kids need help. People have rights but laws have made it to the point where a really bad person gets a hall pass and then whamo - how do you suggest that gets fixed?

[MDlaxfan76]

MD,
Last thought - there are also height and weight restrictions - how would you propose to enforce that?


Best

As I said, who says that we need to pay folks a lot? It's voluntary. But don't serve, don't get a gun.

On height, I'll waive height for the reserves...come on short folks can't serve?

Now being a larda_s, get in shape if you want to own a gun...two birds with one stone.

Seriously, I'm not actually recommending this course...it's just that if we really want to stick to the Constitution's intent, then the only right to own arms is to be a part of the Militia.

Meaning we don't really have the right to whatever fricking weapon of war we want just 'cuz.

[MDlaxfan76]

CU77,
First, I am an independent - I vote for the person not the label - here is an idea - let the I's select which primary to vote in and let them cast one vote either R or D for now - might have different caste of people;

Second, do a more thorough background check - people can wait an extra few days if they have nothing to hide. Make it a three week process or whatever amount time authorities need. TSA is a pain in the arse, do I think it is effective - NOPE. IMHO when your time is up, your time is up and no law enforcement agency is going to buy me extra time and I refuse to live in fear of some nutjob but if people feel better, go for it;

Third, mental health - that to me is the issue. This country worries more about the 90 year mom then the 15 year old kid who might be struggling and since both parents work, he/she gets no attention.......how are you gonna fix that. Excluding LV, these are young people who have acted out and the police cannot do anything - why - we have laws - maybe tweak the laws or actually get rid of a few, free college means free mentors, some of these kids need help. People have rights but laws have made it to the point where a really bad person gets a hall pass and then whamo - how do you suggest that gets fixed?

Totally agree on the I's voting in whatever primary they wish...some states allow that, most do not. Federal gov't has no say.

I'd add a fourth, go after the hate networks and interdict those encouraging violence and hate.

Fifth, no more 'dark web'. Shut it down.

[DMac]

WTH are you going to do with all those people? Lot of people out there sayin' 40% of jobs will be eliminated by AI/technology in the next 15 or so years (no different in the military). Sitting in Cuse and controlling a drone over Iraq doesn't doesn't really need much of an armed militia to accomplish, it aint our grampas' military anymore. Yang's idea should be on the bottom of the list of steps that could/should/might happen. No yin and yang here, just a stupid idea.

Here ya go, MDl. No shorties.

ARMY PHYSICAL REQUIREMENTS & BODY FAT CALCULATOR. NOTE: Height range is 5'0" to 6'8" males and 4'10' to 6'8" for females. The minimum age is 17.

Little Ms gdaughter, the Aggies ROTC gal, not quite 4'11"....just made it, and flat out kickin tail.

[Typical Lax Dad]

WTH are you going to do with all those people? Lot of people out there sayin' 40% of jobs will be eliminated by AI/technology in the next 15 or so years (no different in the military). Sitting in Cuse and controlling a drone over Iraq doesn't doesn't really need much of an armed militia to accomplish, it aint our grampas' military anymore. Yang's idea should be on the bottom of the list of steps that could/should/might happen. No yin and yang here, just a stupid idea.

Here ya go, MDl. No shorties.

ARMY PHYSICAL REQUIREMENTS & BODY FAT CALCULATOR. NOTE: Height range is 5'0" to 6'8" males and 4'10' to 6'8" for females. The minimum age is 17.

Little Ms gdaughter, the Aggies ROTC gal, not quite 4'11"....just made it, and flat out kickin tail.

Make it civil/military/humanitarian service.