The Nation's Financial Condition

[old salt]

There is significant anti-China sentiment in Congress & the public.

Now's the time to crank up the news on China's fentanyl production,
& launch a buy anything but made in China PR campaign.

Right. And stop selling the markets!...we're playing right into their filthy commie hands. Wouldn't the trade war on China be a great place to start unifying the country?

So now that you two realize that the Chinese aren't budging (gee, who could have seen that coming?), your new plan is to crank up the American propaganda machine....take all the hate that is bouncing around in the Trump era, and direct it toward China?

Start a real Cold War with China, and once again, do it without one single US ally in tow? That's your advice?

So basically what a fan is saying is, the theft of our IP and innovations is okie dokie by him, or dead Americans due to Chinese fentanyl flooding our shores is just swell. Just look the other way cause we can't rock the status quo trade boat!...despite China's despicable acts. Not to mention their expanding military exploits. I want to puke...

Some of us see this as a war worth fighting, not only because it's the right thing to do, but for the future wellness of ours and the world economy in the name of national security.

Hate to tell you this Mr. Instant Gratification, but this isn't over yet, even though you conceded the day it started

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/ ... -one-looks

Ok, so you're now fully out of the closet, all in for 'war'.
So, next question, all-out existential war?

If we use our economic leverage, while still in a position of strength, it won't devolve into a war.
China needs us as a market more than we need them as a supplier.
We've done nothing for too long. China's flouting the WTO rules.
They're no longer a "developing economy".
We made economic sacrifices to prevail in the WW's & Cold War,
but it doesn't have to come to that.
This also involves nudging back the globalization pendulum toward the center.

[SCLaxAttack]

Help me with this one aF. For months (maybe even years) you’ve been telling us Russia is a mere shell of its former self with so many financial problems we should care less about what they’re doing in Eastern Europe. Now are you saying they’ve got so many free rubles they’re going to make up for the trade China will lose with the US? What am I missing?

You're missing by claiming I wrote that Russia would make up the trade lost with US. That's not what I wrote. Look again.

No? Here's exactly what you wrote:

China has plenty of other countries to trade with....they'll move to other markets just as we will. We better hope this doesn't push them closer to Putin.

So as if to double down, you wrote it again, only with a few more words:

You are all forgetting about militaries, and focusing on trade only, as if one has nothing to with the other. I haven't a clue as to why. How much more difficult would our lives get if Putin and China got more comfortable with one another because China is looking for new places to sell its goods?

My question remains: For months (maybe even years) you’ve been telling us Russia is a mere shell of its former self with so many financial problems we should care less about what they’re doing in Eastern Europe. Now are you saying they’ve got so many free rubles they’re going to make up for the trade China will lose with the US? What am I missing?

[CU88]

No -- it's to trade with the rest of the world, bring manufacturing back to the USA, & learn to live without China's cheap junk until they start playing by 1st world, developed nation rules. We've got too much unnecessary stuff anyway. China's never gonna come around if we just continue going along to get along. They need us as a market more than we need their stolen junk knock offs.

This is such a canard. You sound like that mythical class of people, no offense, of pompous liberals who “tell” us how to live and what to buy; all for the Common Good.

Do you want to remove all of the "Made in China" products by having them made here in the USA?

Globalization is only part of the story of the decline of manufacturing jobs in the USA. Politicians spew the facts and the traditional conservatives regurgitated them, all about the loss on manufacturing jobs here in the USA.

Sure, manufacturing jobs have declined since the 1970’s. Thank goodness for American ingenuity and know how. Don’t you understand that that the output from US manufacturing has doubled since the 1970’s? And we produce high dollar products that we ship around the world airplanes, industrial machines, and advanced medical devices, etc….

Today we sell more Cadillac’s in China than back home in the USA. Also, now the average USA factory worker produces more that three times what a factory worker did in the 1970’s. A GM employee produces 28 cars a year, back in the glory days of Detroit that number was eight.
MAGA

[DMac]

Where you coming up with those numbers?
Must be one helluva long list of back orders if they're putting out 28 a year.

[Typical Lax Dad]

No -- it's to trade with the rest of the world, bring manufacturing back to the USA, & learn to live without China's cheap junk until they start playing by 1st world, developed nation rules. We've got too much unnecessary stuff anyway. China's never gonna come around if we just continue going along to get along. They need us as a market more than we need their stolen junk knock offs.

This is such a canard. You sound like that mythical class of people, no offense, of pompous liberals who “tell” us how to live and what to buy; all for the Common Good.

Do you want to remove all of the "Made in China" products by having them made here in the USA?

Globalization is only part of the story of the decline of manufacturing jobs in the USA. Politicians spew the facts and the traditional conservatives regurgitated them, all about the loss on manufacturing jobs here in the USA.

Sure, manufacturing jobs have declined since the 1970’s. Thank goodness for American ingenuity and know how. Don’t you understand that that the output from US manufacturing has doubled since the 1970’s? And we produce high dollar products that we ship around the world airplanes, industrial machines, and advanced medical devices, etc….

Today we sell more Cadillac’s in China than back home in the USA. Also, now the average USA factory worker produces more that three times what a factory worker did in the 1970’s. A GM employee produces 28 cars a year, back in the glory days of Detroit that number was eight.
MAGA

Yes. I was a summer intern at GM way back when I was in college..... and it wasn't 8 cars a day because the factory workers were lazy. Conservatives cheered when the unions were broken, cheered more when older employees were bought out and replaced with non union workers that made 1/2 the wages to do the same job... then the conservatives cheered even more when the jobs were moved abroad.

[HooDat]

Yes. I was a summer intern at GM way back when I was in college..... and it wasn't 8 cars a day because the factory workers were lazy. Conservatives cheered when the unions were broken, cheered more when older employees were bought out and replaced with non union workers that made 1/2 the wages to do the same job... then the conservatives cheered even more when the jobs were moved abroad.

yep, yep and yep.

Because, the 0.1%'ers came to the realization that paying some child worker a dollar a day was cheaper than the cost of owning slaves in the US....

So glad Apple decided to ship even more jobs to employ suicidal slave children. I am such an arsehole, I always ask the pretends. "...do you think the child that put your iphone together is still alive, or has saved enough to buy a Euro-rail-pass and travel thru eastern europe? If they are even allowed to leave China? "

blank stares

[old salt]

No -- it's to trade with the rest of the world, bring manufacturing back to the USA, & learn to live without China's cheap junk until they start playing by 1st world, developed nation rules. We've got too much unnecessary stuff anyway. China's never gonna come around if we just continue going along to get along. They need us as a market more than we need their stolen junk knock offs.

This is such a canard. You sound like that mythical class of people, no offense, of pompous liberals who “tell” us how to live and what to buy; all for the Common Good.

Do you want to remove all of the "Made in China" products by having them made here in the USA?

Globalization is only part of the story of the decline of manufacturing jobs in the USA. Politicians spew the facts and the traditional conservatives regurgitated them, all about the loss on manufacturing jobs here in the USA.

Sure, manufacturing jobs have declined since the 1970’s. Thank goodness for American ingenuity and know how. Don’t you understand that that the output from US manufacturing has doubled since the 1970’s? And we produce high dollar products that we ship around the world airplanes, industrial machines, and advanced medical devices, etc….

Today we sell more Cadillac’s in China than back home in the USA. Also, now the average USA factory worker produces more that three times what a factory worker did in the 1970’s. A GM employee produces 28 cars a year, back in the glory days of Detroit that number was eight.
MAGA

Yes. Automation has increased productivity. If 1 US worker can now produce 3 times as much as 1 worker did before massive offshoring,
that makes every job retained or clawed back, worth 3 jobs in the '60s & makes it less costly to bring the plant back home each time it's modernized.

I lived in Japan in the '70's & EUrope in the '80's. Tell me all about protectionism.

[HooDat]

Yes. Automation has increased productivity. If 1 US worker can now produce 3 times as much as 1 worker did before massive offshoring,

but if we did that then the 0.1%ers could only take home hundreds of millions of dollars instead of billions. Much better to send those jobs to a $h!thole country and pay them a dollar a day.

[CU88]

Where you coming up with those numbers?
Must be one helluva long list of back orders if they're putting out 28 a year.

“The New Geography of Jobs” by Enrico Moretti, which is a great read. He has a theory on why the current USA should be considered of a USA in three terms, red vs blue, haves vs have nots, and brain hubs vs manufacturing hubs. The reason Amazon chose NYC and Crystal City for HQ2 was the worker base of productive, creative and best available/paid employees. For every one of these high quality jobs, 5 others are created in that region. And such employers must follow the base of such employees, as they want more than the “middle American lifestyle” has to offer. He breaks down the decline of manufacturing jobs against the production increase for various US industries. I found the 1998 to 2018 breakdown online, from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics for you to review here: https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2009/11/art4full.pdf

It really is a good read for anyone how wants to get out of the superficial politics of employment trends and understand where our children have an employment future.

No growth industry is going to locate into the world of Hillbilly Elegy and preserve a dying way of life. No one with a MBA would ever suggest that in the real world, nor would Wall Street finance such an endeavor.

[old salt]

No -- it's to trade with the rest of the world, bring manufacturing back to the USA, & learn to live without China's cheap junk until they start playing by 1st world, developed nation rules. We've got too much unnecessary stuff anyway. China's never gonna come around if we just continue going along to get along. They need us as a market more than we need their stolen junk knock offs.

This is such a canard. You sound like that mythical class of people, no offense, of pompous liberals who “tell” us how to live and what to buy; all for the Common Good.

Do you want to remove all of the "Made in China" products by having them made here in the USA?

Globalization is only part of the story of the decline of manufacturing jobs in the USA. Politicians spew the facts and the traditional conservatives regurgitated them, all about the loss on manufacturing jobs here in the USA.

Sure, manufacturing jobs have declined since the 1970’s. Thank goodness for American ingenuity and know how. Don’t you understand that that the output from US manufacturing has doubled since the 1970’s? And we produce high dollar products that we ship around the world airplanes, industrial machines, and advanced medical devices, etc….

Today we sell more Cadillac’s in China than back home in the USA. Also, now the average USA factory worker produces more that three times what a factory worker did in the 1970’s. A GM employee produces 28 cars a year, back in the glory days of Detroit that number was eight.
MAGA

Yes. I was a summer intern at GM way back when I was in college..... and it wasn't 8 cars a day because the factory workers were lazy. Conservatives cheered when the unions were broken, cheered more when older employees were bought out and replaced with non union workers that made 1/2 the wages to do the same job... then the conservatives cheered even more when the jobs were moved abroad.

Then the Germans & Japanese moved here & showed how productive US labor could be, forcing the UAW & the Big 3 to adapt (...or die)
My HS biddies at out local Chrysler plant warned me never to buy a car that came down the line on a Mon, Fri, or in deer season.

I said trade with the rest of the world (that doesn't cheat/steal), not limited to made in the USA.
We can have both the new & old economy jobs & industries.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Where you coming up with those numbers?
Must be one helluva long list of back orders if they're putting out 28 a year.

“The New Geography of Jobs” by Enrico Moretti, which is a great read. He has a theory on why the current USA should be considered of a USA in three terms, red vs blue, haves vs have nots, and brain hubs vs manufacturing hubs. The reason Amazon chose NYC and Crystal City for HQ2 was the worker base of productive, creative and best available/paid employees. For every one of these high quality jobs, 5 others are created in that region. And such employers must follow the base of such employees, as they want more than the “middle American lifestyle” has to offer. He breaks down the decline of manufacturing jobs against the production increase for various US industries. I found the 1998 to 2018 breakdown online, from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics for you to review here: https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2009/11/art4full.pdf

It really is a good read for anyone how wants to get out of the superficial politics of employment trends and understand where our children have an employment future.

No growth industry is going to locate into the world of Hillbilly Elegy and preserve a dying way of life. No one with a MBA would ever suggest that in the real world, nor would Wall Street finance such an endeavor.

In Hillbilly Elegy Land, GM left a very nice factory behind...... a guy that worked there and made maybe $30 an hour in 1980's dollars was out of work..... Chinese company comes in and re-opens the plant and pays the guy working in the same plant about $15.00 an hour.....in 2017 dollars.... Americans have been had.

[Typical Lax Dad]

No -- it's to trade with the rest of the world, bring manufacturing back to the USA, & learn to live without China's cheap junk until they start playing by 1st world, developed nation rules. We've got too much unnecessary stuff anyway. China's never gonna come around if we just continue going along to get along. They need us as a market more than we need their stolen junk knock offs.

This is such a canard. You sound like that mythical class of people, no offense, of pompous liberals who “tell” us how to live and what to buy; all for the Common Good.

Do you want to remove all of the "Made in China" products by having them made here in the USA?

Globalization is only part of the story of the decline of manufacturing jobs in the USA. Politicians spew the facts and the traditional conservatives regurgitated them, all about the loss on manufacturing jobs here in the USA.

Sure, manufacturing jobs have declined since the 1970’s. Thank goodness for American ingenuity and know how. Don’t you understand that that the output from US manufacturing has doubled since the 1970’s? And we produce high dollar products that we ship around the world airplanes, industrial machines, and advanced medical devices, etc….

Today we sell more Cadillac’s in China than back home in the USA. Also, now the average USA factory worker produces more that three times what a factory worker did in the 1970’s. A GM employee produces 28 cars a year, back in the glory days of Detroit that number was eight.
MAGA

Yes. I was a summer intern at GM way back when I was in college..... and it wasn't 8 cars a day because the factory workers were lazy. Conservatives cheered when the unions were broken, cheered more when older employees were bought out and replaced with non union workers that made 1/2 the wages to do the same job... then the conservatives cheered even more when the jobs were moved abroad.

Then the Germans & Japanese moved here & showed how productive US labor could be, forcing the UAW & the Big 3 to adapt (...or die)
My HS biddies at out local Chrysler plant warned me never to buy a car that came down the line on a Mon, Fri, or in deer season.

I said trade with the rest of the world (that doesn't cheat/steal), not limited to made in the USA.
We can have both the new & old economy jobs & industries.

It was a management problem. Don't blame the workers..... it was a coaching problem.... don't blame the players.....

[old salt]

No -- it's to trade with the rest of the world, bring manufacturing back to the USA, & learn to live without China's cheap junk until they start playing by 1st world, developed nation rules. We've got too much unnecessary stuff anyway. China's never gonna come around if we just continue going along to get along. They need us as a market more than we need their stolen junk knock offs.

This is such a canard. You sound like that mythical class of people, no offense, of pompous liberals who “tell” us how to live and what to buy; all for the Common Good.

Do you want to remove all of the "Made in China" products by having them made here in the USA?

Globalization is only part of the story of the decline of manufacturing jobs in the USA. Politicians spew the facts and the traditional conservatives regurgitated them, all about the loss on manufacturing jobs here in the USA.

Sure, manufacturing jobs have declined since the 1970’s. Thank goodness for American ingenuity and know how. Don’t you understand that that the output from US manufacturing has doubled since the 1970’s? And we produce high dollar products that we ship around the world airplanes, industrial machines, and advanced medical devices, etc….

Today we sell more Cadillac’s in China than back home in the USA. Also, now the average USA factory worker produces more that three times what a factory worker did in the 1970’s. A GM employee produces 28 cars a year, back in the glory days of Detroit that number was eight.
MAGA

Yes. I was a summer intern at GM way back when I was in college..... and it wasn't 8 cars a day because the factory workers were lazy. Conservatives cheered when the unions were broken, cheered more when older employees were bought out and replaced with non union workers that made 1/2 the wages to do the same job... then the conservatives cheered even more when the jobs were moved abroad.

Then the Germans & Japanese moved here & showed how productive US labor could be, forcing the UAW & the Big 3 to adapt (...or die)
My HS biddies at out local Chrysler plant warned me never to buy a car that came down the line on a Mon, Fri, or in deer season.

I said trade with the rest of the world (that doesn't cheat/steal), not limited to made in the USA.
We can have both the new & old economy jobs & industries.

It was a management problem. Don't blame the workers..... it was a coaching problem.... don't blame the players.....

Agree. Both Big 3 & UAW mgmt.

[holmes435]

Then the Germans & Japanese moved here & showed how productive US labor could be, forcing the UAW & the Big 3 to adapt (...or die)
My HS biddies at out local Chrysler plant warned me never to buy a car that came down the line on a Mon, Fri, or in deer season.

I said trade with the rest of the world (that doesn't cheat/steal), not limited to made in the USA.
We can have both the new & old economy jobs & industries.

It was a management problem. Don't blame the workers..... it was a coaching problem.... don't blame the players.....

Yep. And the irony is that it was an engineer out of Wyoming who is credited with a lot of the success Japan had post WWII in improving their quality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

"Ford Motor Company was one of the first American corporations to seek help from Deming. In 1981, Ford's sales were falling. Between 1979 and 1982, Ford had incurred $3 billion in losses. Ford's newly appointed Corporate Quality Director, Larry Moore, was charged with recruiting Deming to help jump-start a quality movement at Ford.[25] Deming questioned the company's culture and the way its managers operated. To Ford's surprise, Deming talked not about quality, but about management. He told Ford that management actions were responsible for 85% of all problems in developing better cars. In 1986, Ford came out with a profitable line of cars, the Taurus-Sable line. In a letter to Autoweek, Donald Petersen, then Ford chairman, said, "We are moving toward building a quality culture at Ford and the many changes that have been taking place here have their roots directly in Deming's teachings."[26] By 1986, Ford had become the most profitable American auto company. "


No mention of the UAW though old salt...

[Typical Lax Dad]

Then the Germans & Japanese moved here & showed how productive US labor could be, forcing the UAW & the Big 3 to adapt (...or die)
My HS biddies at out local Chrysler plant warned me never to buy a car that came down the line on a Mon, Fri, or in deer season.

I said trade with the rest of the world (that doesn't cheat/steal), not limited to made in the USA.
We can have both the new & old economy jobs & industries.

It was a management problem. Don't blame the workers..... it was a coaching problem.... don't blame the players.....

Yep. And the irony is that it was an engineer out of Wyoming who is credited with a lot of the success Japan had post WWII in improving their quality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

"Ford Motor Company was one of the first American corporations to seek help from Deming. In 1981, Ford's sales were falling. Between 1979 and 1982, Ford had incurred $3 billion in losses. Ford's newly appointed Corporate Quality Director, Larry Moore, was charged with recruiting Deming to help jump-start a quality movement at Ford.[25] Deming questioned the company's culture and the way its managers operated. To Ford's surprise, Deming talked not about quality, but about management. He told Ford that management actions were responsible for 85% of all problems in developing better cars. In 1986, Ford came out with a profitable line of cars, the Taurus-Sable line. In a letter to Autoweek, Donald Petersen, then Ford chairman, said, "We are moving toward building a quality culture at Ford and the many changes that have been taking place here have their roots directly in Deming's teachings."[26] By 1986, Ford had become the most profitable American auto company. "


No mention of the UAW though old salt...

ABSOLUTELY. My summer internship was a Cost of Quality project. Learned a lot.

[a fan]

Help me with this one aF. For months (maybe even years) you’ve been telling us Russia is a mere shell of its former self with so many financial problems we should care less about what they’re doing in Eastern Europe. Now are you saying they’ve got so many free rubles they’re going to make up for the trade China will lose with the US? What am I missing?

You're missing by claiming I wrote that Russia would make up the trade lost with US. That's not what I wrote. Look again.

No? Here's exactly what you wrote:

China has plenty of other countries to trade with....they'll move to other markets just as we will. We better hope this doesn't push them closer to Putin.

In what world does the two sentences above mean "Russia will make up for 100% of the export volume that China sent to the US "?????

Come on, man.

[SCLaxAttack]

Aaaaahhhh, the third time’s the charm.

You meant 100% replacement of their US trade. Why didn’t you say so?

You’re right, then. The terrible condition of the Russian economy would never be a 100% trade replacement, it’s just helpful enough for China and large enough to justify your claims that no military threat/activity was necessary to stop Russia’s Eastern European aggression.

[a fan]

You meant 100% replacement of their US trade. Why didn’t you say so?

Because that's not what I meant either.

When I wrote "we better hope this doesn't push them closer to Putin", I meant on things like trade, weapons, treaties, shared military goals, etc.

We traded with a nuclear armed, communist (fascist, actually) China in peace for 50 years. Surely you understand there will be unforeseen military, political, and economic consequences if we stop trading with the largest economy in the world? One of those consequences is getting China to work with Putin in areas that are mutually beneficial. That is not a helpful outcome for America.

[a fan]

So basically what a fan is saying is, the theft of our IP and innovations is okie dokie by him, or dead Americans due to Chinese fentanyl flooding our shores is just swell. Just look the other way cause we can't rock the status quo trade boat!...despite China's despicable acts. Not to mention their expanding military exploits. I want to puke...

So make up a strawman position, then tell me you this made up position makes you want to puke. Nice job. You forgot to tell everyone that I think America should start kicking puppies on a much more regular basis. Oh, and knock over old ladies in the street, and steal their medication.

Some of us see this as a war worth fighting, not only because it's the right thing to do, but for the future wellness of ours and the world economy in the name of national security.

Great.

Hate to tell you this Mr. Instant Gratification, but this isn't over yet, even though you conceded the day it started

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/ ... -one-looks

Dude. Did you bother reading the date on that Tom Holland piece? May 2019. You're using THIS as a citation to tell me I'm wrong? Did you even read the piece? Jeezus H, this is the dumbest thing you've ever cited.

Here's the "only" two options Holland thought China had in May:

-Hit by a hike in US tariffs China could: respond with equal tariffs (impossible); dump US Treasury bonds (ineffective and impractical); let the yuan weaken (expensive)

-Or it could give in to Trump and lose face (for Xi, unthinkable)


So Holland wrote this in May, yeah? So which one of these options did China choose? NEITHER. Holland is a tool. China simply stopped buying all agricultural products. Wheres' that on your man's list of options? Whoops. Guess ol' Hollland doesn't know what the F he's talking about.

China isn't the US. China doesn't have elections. It also doesn't give a flying F about the general welfare of its own people. Americans, by comparison, would commit mass suicide if you took WiFi away for a few weeks.

So what you, Holland, Trump and the rest of the geniuses don't get is China can walk away altogether and simply start a Cold War. But because your head is so far up Trump's trousers, it never occurred to you that they'd do that. And your laughable comment that this isn't about war shows just how shallow your thinking is here.

Tell me: China is filled with Communists (well, fascists, but why split hairs), yes? So was the Soviet Union, right? So tell me, Mr. "we'll never have a war with China": why did we have a Cold War with the Soviets, and not with China? We're supposed to be at war with Communists, right? So what happened?

Trade. Trade is what happened. Wake up. We're headed headlong into a Cold War. And doing it on purpose. And doing it with no preparation whatsoever. Why? Because Trump has a R by his name, and so he MUST be doing things right.

I've already told you what the right way to do this was, several times.

1. Line up all our allies. EU, NATO, PacRim. All of them. Get together and discuss how to hold China accountable.
2. While you're getting your allies together, you take that $30 Billion that Trump piddled away on farmers with no thought, and instead cut checks to the Commerce Dept, the Dept. of Ag, and other Departments....and take every US Trade Group out to new countries to establish new markets for US goods that would be hammered if we got into a Trade War with China.

These trips work. It's how, for example, we secured a few million in exports in the UK and EU....the Dept. of Ag funded sales junkets to London and Paris. The US officials helped facilitate meetings with willing buyers...and boom, we secured sale agreements.

Now if China cuts us off, our farmers and other sectors aren't caught with their pants down and have a head start on selling goods elsewhere.

3. Now you gather US officials, and go through "what if" scenarios. For example, not only do I think it's possible, but I think it is LIKELY that since US chose to go it alone in this Trade War, China will simply choose the Godfather II option, which you, Trump, or your idiot Holland (Jeezus, what an idiot) haven't even considered:



China may very well just stop trading with the US altogether. But as usual, small handed American men don't think China can do that. Why not? You and old salt think we don't need China's crap. And you're right, of course. So why wouldn't there be folks in China advising they do the same? Hint: there are. Why would Chinese leaders, with their 6%+ GDP care if they have to take a recession to rearrange their exports to new markets?

----------------

What I'm objecting to is that real Americans, real people, are losing their jobs and family businesses because as usual, Trump didn't plan this out. He tweeted, and left everyone else to pick up the pieces. Do we need China to trade with? No. We don't. But the lack of preparedness and lack of US allies helping to apply pressure and reduce China's options is causing wholly unnecessary damage.

We are choosing to make a 50 year trading partner into a Cold War enemy, and we are choosing to do this without allies. As powerful as the US was, we still had NATO ----allies---- to handle the Cold War with Russia, yes?

We're ill prepared for this. That's all I'm saying. You understand this...you're just being stubborn.

[old salt]

Then the Germans & Japanese moved here & showed how productive US labor could be, forcing the UAW & the Big 3 to adapt (...or die)
My HS biddies at out local Chrysler plant warned me never to buy a car that came down the line on a Mon, Fri, or in deer season.

I said trade with the rest of the world (that doesn't cheat/steal), not limited to made in the USA.
We can have both the new & old economy jobs & industries.

It was a management problem. Don't blame the workers..... it was a coaching problem.... don't blame the players.....

Yep. And the irony is that it was an engineer out of Wyoming who is credited with a lot of the success Japan had post WWII in improving their quality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

"Ford Motor Company was one of the first American corporations to seek help from Deming. In 1981, Ford's sales were falling. Between 1979 and 1982, Ford had incurred $3 billion in losses. Ford's newly appointed Corporate Quality Director, Larry Moore, was charged with recruiting Deming to help jump-start a quality movement at Ford.[25] Deming questioned the company's culture and the way its managers operated. To Ford's surprise, Deming talked not about quality, but about management. He told Ford that management actions were responsible for 85% of all problems in developing better cars. In 1986, Ford came out with a profitable line of cars, the Taurus-Sable line. In a letter to Autoweek, Donald Petersen, then Ford chairman, said, "We are moving toward building a quality culture at Ford and the many changes that have been taking place here have their roots directly in Deming's teachings."[26] By 1986, Ford had become the most profitable American auto company. "

No mention of the UAW though old salt...

The UAW in the late '70's/early '80's would not yet have been receptive to Deming's TQM personnel policies. They had to endure the Big 3's failure (in which they collaborated), while Japanese cars went from junk to the standard setter for quality.

Remember the Ford Pinto fiasco & waiting lists + dealer surcharges for Honda Accords. After waiting months, being told by a Honda salesweasel I'd pay sticker price, I demanded my deposit back & bought a used '74 Pinto wagon (more crushable sheet metal around the gas tank). Great car. Low maint, Good mpg -- ended up with a lower life cycle cost/mile than the Accord.

TQM was perfect for the Japanese culture. Not so much for US culture. The US Navy tried to adapt it as TQL. It helped with civilian labor at depot level maintenance & other industrial applications, but flopped in the operational military culture. Combat readiness could not be quantified as precisely as production stats or failure rates. It was the hot new idea of 1 CNO. He gor fired over Tailhook & the rest of the Navy breathed a sigh of relief as TQL died a quiet death.