2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[a fan]

Decriminaling illegal immigration

Already have that under Trump. How do you think we keep reading about illegal immigrants who are repeat felony offenders?

Open Borders

Already have that, remember? Trump did nothing---zippo----about passing an Immigration Reform bill, just like every POTUS before him. You don't care, and want to pretend Trump solved the problem because it releases endorphins. Oh, and where's that wall again? Whoops, forgot to build it.

Vote Trump!

Medicare for all

See below

Free Healthcare for Illegal immigrants remember RAISE YOUR HANDS!

Already have that, remember? Your Republican party and Trump forgot to pass repeal and replace. Whoops. Forgot about that, did ya?

Obamacare subsidies for the poor (includes illegal's legal children) go up every year. Do you care? Nope. Vote Trump.

https://www.cbo.gov/topics/health-care/ ... e-care-act


Anything else you want to dazzle me with here? You're so busy ripping on the Dems, you're forgetting that Trump hasn't passed any bills to fix these problems. But you're thrilled because Trumpy has a R by his name, so you magically don't actually, seriously care about American domestic policy. All you want is someone who will tweet insults to Dems because you think that's the same thing as governing.

Vote Trump: more of the same wasteful, liberal, socialism Republican voters have come to know and love.

Catchy slogan, don't you think?

https://www.cbo.gov/topics/health-care/ ... e-care-act

[seacoaster]

The Times's Frank Bruni on the Debates:

"These Democratic debates are awful.

I don’t mean the caliber of the candidates, the moderators’ questions or the sparring, which is inevitable and just. I mean the superficiality. You can’t have serious policy discussions in 60-second riffs and 30-second ripostes. You can’t demonstrate any agility of intellect or nuance of argument.

You can only perform, at least when there are 10 candidates jostling for time and desperate for viral moments. And while performance is part of leadership in general and the presidency in particular, it’s not nearly the whole of it. So I don’t think what we saw last night in Detroit and what we’ll see tonight on the same stage are all that helpful in picking the best successor to Donald Trump. And that’s a shame.

But these debates may suggest the best combatant for Trump, and that’s no small thing.

I know that Bernie Sanders often does better than Elizabeth Warren when Americans are polled about a hypothetical general-election contest between Trump and one of them, but I can’t escape the feeling that she’d be the stronger contender, even factoring in the sexism of many voters. As I wrote in my appraisal of their debate last night, she seems to be sharper and fresher, and she’s plenty pugilistic without seeming to yell the way he does. Sanders has only one gear. She maybe has two or three.

As I also wrote, I worry about either one of them as the nominee. But who else? Not Beto O’Rourke, not anymore: Whatever burned bright and then dimmed in him doesn’t seem to be coming back. He’s not the candidate I observed in Texas last year, when he impressed me. The bigger stage has made him smaller. It’s fascinating how frequently that happens in American politics — and how often those of us in the media don't see it coming.
I continue to be as wowed by Pete Buttigieg’s good sense, poise and verbal dexterity as I am concerned about the vulnerabilities of his age and experience. I keep waiting for one of the impressively accomplished moderates — Amy Klobuchar, say, or John Hickenlooper — to have a moment that changes their currently unpromising trajectories. That moment didn’t come for either of them last night.

But neither of them is a performer, and that’s what these debates ask politicians to be. In return those politicians practice and practice and come to the stage with certain arguments and details drilled into them. Did you catch that Klobuchar is from the Midwest? She said or alluded to it repeatedly. Did you catch that Hickenlooper governed a purple state? Same deal.

Even Buttigieg betrayed a strategic determination to turn every discussion around to how long everyone else on the stage had been around and what a fresh-faced arrival on the scene he was. I got the message long before he stopped bludgeoning me with it.

Pay attention to these debates, absolutely. They say something about candidates’ preparation, talent for succinctness, composure and charisma. But don’t let these debates be the deciding factor. They’re theater before they’re anything else. And governing is less flashy and more complicated than that."

[6ftstick]

Ronald Reagan Claimed "Medicare would lead to socialized medicine. Which would lead to socialism."

Well bust my buttons here we are ahead of schedule.

We arrived years ago.

University of Maryland Hospital ring a bell anywhere? Who do you think owns and operates that? Elon Musk?

The government. The government does. And neither you nor any of your buddies who don't understand how a dictionary work cares.

And that's just one State. Know how many locations UMd Hospital System has? 150. 150 socialist locations.

And you don't care. Just stop with the socialism thing. It's ridiculous.

One more time. Please PAY ATTENTION.

There still are privately held hospitals clinics and treatment centers across the country.100's, Thousands of them.

Your new dems want to eliminate the private sector from the Healthcare segment. Government only. And FREE healthcare to illegal immigrants.

[RedFromMI]

Ronald Reagan Claimed "Medicare would lead to socialized medicine. Which would lead to socialism."

Well bust my buttons here we are ahead of schedule.

We arrived years ago.

University of Maryland Hospital ring a bell anywhere? Who do you think owns and operates that? Elon Musk?

The government. The government does. And neither you nor any of your buddies who don't understand how a dictionary work cares.

And that's just one State. Know how many locations UMd Hospital System has? 150. 150 socialist locations.

And you don't care. Just stop with the socialism thing. It's ridiculous.

One more time. Please PAY ATTENTION.

There still are privately held hospitals clinics and treatment centers across the country.100's, Thousands of them.

Your new dems want to eliminate the private sector from the Healthcare segment. Government only. And FREE healthcare to illegal immigrants.

Facts not in evidence. Medicare is a single payer system at its core, and in addition a public-private partnership with private insurance companies (Medicare Advantage). Nothing in the current Medicare system requires publicly owned hospitals, medical practices, or clinics.

For each of the wildly varied plans, there is not any specific plan to eliminate anything on the supply side if it is private, except that _some_ of the plans (like Bernie's) eliminate private insurance, while others like Harris' plan allow for essentially an expanded Medicare Advantage type role. Still others, like Biden's plan merely build on the Affordable Care Act by allowing those not currently covered to be placed into Medicare.

NONE of these plans to my knowledge prohibit private hospitals, clinics or medical practices. You might argue that is the final intent, but I would disagree - even in those socialistic plans in the major countries in Europe (with the exception of the British Health Ministry) have at least private doctors and clinics.

[holmes435]

One more time. Please PAY ATTENTION.

There still are privately held hospitals clinics and treatment centers across the country.100's, Thousands of them.

Your new dems want to eliminate the private sector from the Healthcare segment. Government only. And FREE healthcare to illegal immigrants.

When did any candidate say they want to take over ownership of private hospitals?

Please PAY ATTENTION.

Oh, we already have free healthcare to illegal immigrants. It was signed into law by Ronald Reagan (passed by a D house and R senate).

[6ftstick]

Ronald Reagan Claimed "Medicare would lead to socialized medicine. Which would lead to socialism."

Well bust my buttons here we are ahead of schedule.

We arrived years ago.

University of Maryland Hospital ring a bell anywhere? Who do you think owns and operates that? Elon Musk?

The government. The government does. And neither you nor any of your buddies who don't understand how a dictionary work cares.

And that's just one State. Know how many locations UMd Hospital System has? 150. 150 socialist locations.

And you don't care. Just stop with the socialism thing. It's ridiculous.

One more time. Please PAY ATTENTION.

There still are privately held hospitals clinics and treatment centers across the country.100's, Thousands of them.

Your new dems want to eliminate the private sector from the Healthcare segment. Government only. And FREE healthcare to illegal immigrants.

Facts not in evidence. Medicare is a single payer system at its core, and in addition a public-private partnership with private insurance companies (Medicare Advantage). Nothing in the current Medicare system requires publicly owned hospitals, medical practices, or clinics.

For each of the wildly varied plans, there is not any specific plan to eliminate anything on the supply side if it is private, except that _some_ of the plans (like Bernie's) eliminate private insurance, while others like Harris' plan allow for essentially an expanded Medicare Advantage type role. Still others, like Biden's plan merely build on the Affordable Care Act by allowing those not currently covered to be placed into Medicare.

NONE of these plans to my knowledge prohibit private hospitals, clinics or medical practices. You might argue that is the final intent, but I would disagree - even in those socialistic plans in the major countries in Europe (with the exception of the British Health Ministry) have at least private doctors and clinics.

Guess none of you heard the democrat governor last night. when asked about having a 100% medicare payee system hospital administrators said they'd shut their doors.

[6ftstick]

Democrats have run LA Baltimore and Chicago for decades. Typhus homelessness used needles and human feces in the street.

Think about Healthcare run like LA Baltimore and Chicago.

[RedFromMI]

Ronald Reagan Claimed "Medicare would lead to socialized medicine. Which would lead to socialism."

Well bust my buttons here we are ahead of schedule.

We arrived years ago.

University of Maryland Hospital ring a bell anywhere? Who do you think owns and operates that? Elon Musk?

The government. The government does. And neither you nor any of your buddies who don't understand how a dictionary work cares.

And that's just one State. Know how many locations UMd Hospital System has? 150. 150 socialist locations.

And you don't care. Just stop with the socialism thing. It's ridiculous.

One more time. Please PAY ATTENTION.

There still are privately held hospitals clinics and treatment centers across the country.100's, Thousands of them.

Your new dems want to eliminate the private sector from the Healthcare segment. Government only. And FREE healthcare to illegal immigrants.

Facts not in evidence. Medicare is a single payer system at its core, and in addition a public-private partnership with private insurance companies (Medicare Advantage). Nothing in the current Medicare system requires publicly owned hospitals, medical practices, or clinics.

For each of the wildly varied plans, there is not any specific plan to eliminate anything on the supply side if it is private, except that _some_ of the plans (like Bernie's) eliminate private insurance, while others like Harris' plan allow for essentially an expanded Medicare Advantage type role. Still others, like Biden's plan merely build on the Affordable Care Act by allowing those not currently covered to be placed into Medicare.

NONE of these plans to my knowledge prohibit private hospitals, clinics or medical practices. You might argue that is the final intent, but I would disagree - even in those socialistic plans in the major countries in Europe (with the exception of the British Health Ministry) have at least private doctors and clinics.

Guess none of you heard the democrat governor last night. when asked about having a 100% medicare payee system hospital administrators said they'd shut their doors.

That MIGHT be true if reimbursements are left at the current rates compared to market averages, but not as clear as stated. If everyone is covered, you have no unbillable charges due to people who show up at the hospital without insurance and must be treated, so you cut some losses that were packed into the rates that the hospitals charge. One of the hardest things about a single payer system is setting the rates and/or setting rationing to avoid the bill getting too high, but also at the same time keeping the whole business (supply side of healthcare) still running in a healthy manner.

But none of the pricing issue is really new - private insurance companies do it all the time, which is why they tend to end up with a limited selection of doctors/hospitals for which the private insurer negotiated their best deal. But they do bend the cost curve, and practice rationing as well. For the latter, setting certain medications on a higher priced copay (or even non-covered) list, or disallowing certain procedures as not the best methods for handling a particular health issue.

The real issue here is who is making the decisions, and what sort of muscle that there is behind it - I suspect the various parts of the supply side industry is scared to death of the government with its much larger ability to bend those cost and supply curves taking away most of their profits. That is why you get the scare tactics regarding socialism/government takeover.

[youthathletics]

This guy gets it, at least on this point. Who is going to prevail as the opponent?

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0j8F_-HSrU ... sfsp6b5de4

You just explained why the Dems are screwed.

"America: we're too stupid to figure out how to offer the same Health Care every other 1st world country has, at half the freaking price we're paying now", isn't exactly a slogan that will drive people to the polls.

We're approaching $10K per person per year for our health care. Canada is at less than $5k per person.

We've totally fallen apart as a nation in 20 short years.

Even David Axelrod is trying to "keep it real" with these people. Maybe we are starting to see some on the left, throw out some real political posturing to clearly separate themselves from those focused on the far left progressive narrative. https://www.instagram.com/p/B0l2uOdHg2i/?hl=en

[MDlaxfan76]

Yes, especially if the Ds don't start tacking to the center. Which they do not seem bright enough to do.

They're "bright enough" (see Pelosi and the lead Biden still has), but the energy, both emotional and intellectual, is with the most progressive ideas, So Warren plus Bernie have the largest overall share of support right now.

This period is really about sorting through those ideas, and the candidates who espouse them in various versions. When it comes time to pull the lever though, the question will be whether Dem voters prioritize voting for the most extreme versions/candidates or whether they prioritize beating Trump.

Looks to me like Harris might be the candidate who could thread the needle, but it's still super early.

Too pugilistic. Anyone who thinks she (or anyone) can spar with a Trump is delusional. It’s like utilizing old school rules of engagement against guerillas with zero respect or value for human life.

Mayor Pete (or Andrew yang) seem like the best in the middle but he won’t win.

Having energy and momentum is cool and all,but if it’s not harnessed properly and to optimize its benefits then it’s just underused/I utilized capacity that carries deprecaible value at light speed.

I'm a big fan of Mayor Pete, super bright, thoughtful, good communicator and has some unusual personal qualities and experiences, including being a veteran and fully comfortable talking about faith, that would be striking differences with DJT. IMO, Trump would come across as a relative buffoon.

I just don't know whether the African American community will come around enough during the primaries for him to thread the needle to a primary win.

I'm a bit nervous that Warren will continue to rise, the Bernie fans will ultimately congregate to her and the rest of the field will divvy up too much. She seems to me to be particularly vulnerable to the Trumpian insult style, the labelling as a 'socialist' etc. Maybe she'd be able to battle him, but would people have the 'like her' response?

Harris seems to me to have the potential to tear Trump apart while still coming across as 'likable'.

But it's super early, we'll need to see these folks go through more stress before someone truly emerges.

Of course, Biden could rebound with a strong performance tonight and quiet those of us who worry that he's lost a step, (and wasn't that swift in the first place!)

[MDlaxfan76]

This guy gets it, at least on this point. Who is going to prevail as the opponent?

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0j8F_-HSrU ... sfsp6b5de4

You just explained why the Dems are screwed.

"America: we're too stupid to figure out how to offer the same Health Care every other 1st world country has, at half the freaking price we're paying now", isn't exactly a slogan that will drive people to the polls.

We're approaching $10K per person per year for our health care. Canada is at less than $5k per person.

We've totally fallen apart as a nation in 20 short years.

Even David Axelrod is trying to "keep it real" with these people. Maybe we are starting to see some on the left, throw out some real political posturing to clearly separate themselves from those focused on the far left progressive narrative. https://www.instagram.com/p/B0l2uOdHg2i/?hl=en

Because he knows that most Dems, and certainly most independents, are uncomfortable with some of 'promises' being made by the furthest left candidates. Unrealistic, and opening up to claims of 'socialism' and 'anti-capitalist' etc, scaring folks that as much as Trump is a royal jerk and embarrassment, one of these extreme left folks could foul up the economy.

[MDlaxfan76]

Ronald Reagan Claimed "Medicare would lead to socialized medicine. Which would lead to socialism."

Well bust my buttons here we are ahead of schedule.

We arrived years ago.

University of Maryland Hospital ring a bell anywhere? Who do you think owns and operates that? Elon Musk?

The government. The government does. And neither you nor any of your buddies who don't understand how a dictionary work cares.

And that's just one State. Know how many locations UMd Hospital System has? 150. 150 socialist locations.

And you don't care. Just stop with the socialism thing. It's ridiculous.

One more time. Please PAY ATTENTION.

There still are privately held hospitals clinics and treatment centers across the country.100's, Thousands of them.

Your new dems want to eliminate the private sector from the Healthcare segment. Government only. And FREE healthcare to illegal immigrants.

Facts not in evidence. Medicare is a single payer system at its core, and in addition a public-private partnership with private insurance companies (Medicare Advantage). Nothing in the current Medicare system requires publicly owned hospitals, medical practices, or clinics.

For each of the wildly varied plans, there is not any specific plan to eliminate anything on the supply side if it is private, except that _some_ of the plans (like Bernie's) eliminate private insurance, while others like Harris' plan allow for essentially an expanded Medicare Advantage type role. Still others, like Biden's plan merely build on the Affordable Care Act by allowing those not currently covered to be placed into Medicare.

NONE of these plans to my knowledge prohibit private hospitals, clinics or medical practices. You might argue that is the final intent, but I would disagree - even in those socialistic plans in the major countries in Europe (with the exception of the British Health Ministry) have at least private doctors and clinics.

Guess none of you heard the democrat governor last night. when asked about having a 100% medicare payee system hospital administrators said they'd shut their doors.

That MIGHT be true if reimbursements are left at the current rates compared to market averages, but not as clear as stated. If everyone is covered, you have no unbillable charges due to people who show up at the hospital without insurance and must be treated, so you cut some losses that were packed into the rates that the hospitals charge. One of the hardest things about a single payer system is setting the rates and/or setting rationing to avoid the bill getting too high, but also at the same time keeping the whole business (supply side of healthcare) still running in a healthy manner.

But none of the pricing issue is really new - private insurance companies do it all the time, which is why they tend to end up with a limited selection of doctors/hospitals for which the private insurer negotiated their best deal. But they do bend the cost curve, and practice rationing as well. For the latter, setting certain medications on a higher priced copay (or even non-covered) list, or disallowing certain procedures as not the best methods for handling a particular health issue.

The real issue here is who is making the decisions, and what sort of muscle that there is behind it - I suspect the various parts of the supply side industry is scared to death of the government with its much larger ability to bend those cost and supply curves taking away most of their profits. That is why you get the scare tactics regarding socialism/government takeover.

I suspect that a single payor system would indeed need to adjust rates for docs upward, particularly in areas difficult to recruit docs. It's not as if the system is in balance now, so adjustments would need to be made.

Red is correct that a major source of 'cost reduction'/revenue enhancement rebalancing would be the mandated but uncompensated care now provided for insured populations.

But where I think the largest potential source of cost control would be in the reengineering of our overall policy set away from 'sick care' and toward 'wellness care'. 75% of our TOTAL health care spending is for chronic diseases attributable to lifestyle factors. This goes beyond just a major focus on prevention of chronic disease onset (diabetes, heart disease, joint, metabolic, etc) but also to our food system, taxing rather than subsidizing cheap sugar (corn) and instead subsidizing healthy food costs.

Once we start getting truly serious about reducing health costs while improving health outcomes, we can make serious progress. But instead we get tied into knots over how to structure insurance...

[holmes435]

I do find it an interesting commentary on American politics that universal healthcare is something that the entire western world is doing, yet it's considered "far left". If literally everyone is doing it, it's mainstream is it not?

I'll give credit to the right, they're good at labeling things and making those labels stick, regardless of how well they apply.

[HooDat]

The real issue here is who is making the decisions, and what sort of muscle that there is behind it - I suspect the various parts of the supply side industry is scared to death of the government with its much larger ability to bend those cost and supply curves taking away most of their profits. That is why you get the scare tactics regarding socialism/government takeover.

Oh, I would tend to think that the big pharma and other related lobbyists should be slavering at the prospect of bribing (er I mean lobbying to inform) politicians to get their drug the one that is paid for.... Or perhaps they fear the bidding war that will ensue?

I do find it an interesting commentary on American politics that universal healthcare is something that the entire western world is doing, yet it's considered "far left". If literally everyone is doing it, it's mainstream is it not?

I'll give credit to the right, they're good at labeling things and making those labels stick, regardless of how well they apply.

interestingly - I whole-heartedly agree with your first statement, but would say that the skill and tendency to throw around labels of convenience is an act of politics that is not limited by party.....


edited for spelling errors....

[LandM]

Healthcare - my friends wife in Canada is a vein doctor. 75% of her patients are from the US. She can charge what she wants with no restrictions. Might want to talk to some eh’s before you vote. My wife went through chemo and radiation. Met A 98 year old, yep read it right, and a bunch of 85 to 88 year olds. I believe 80% of healthcare spending is devoted to the last few years of life. I do not have a source but I have read that more then once. Until folks have that hard conversation it is not gonna change. Free that up and universal healthcare is right around the corner IMHO.

As to racism, just wondering how many posters would walk in certain big/inter city neighborhoods at 1am. Hopefully you are well trained

Met many generous and grateful people but when the free stuff gets tabulated you might have people actually moving to Canada.

In parks, tv is limited so been watching allot of Archie Bunker with Rob Reiner. Hard to believe he is suppose to be a moral compass now. But the shows are still funny to me.

If the supposed top three dems are in the race in October there are allot of financial, ethical, and of course family heritage that is food for fodder.

[runrussellrun]

Healthcare - my friends wife in Canada is a vein doctor. 75% of her patients are from the US. She can charge what she wants with no restrictions. Might want to talk to some eh’s before you vote. My wife went through chemo and radiation. Met A 98 year old, yep read it right, and a bunch of 85 to 88 year olds. I believe 80% of healthcare spending is devoted to the last few years of life. I do not have a source but I have read that more then once. Until folks have that hard conversation it is not gonna change. Free that up and universal healthcare is right around the corner IMHO.

As to racism, just wondering how many posters would walk in certain big/inter city neighborhoods at 1am. Hopefully you are well trained

Met many generous and grateful people but when the free stuff gets tabulated you might have people actually moving to Canada.

In parks, tv is limited so been watching allot of Archie Bunker with Rob Reiner. Hard to believe he is suppose to be a moral compass now. But the shows are still funny to me.

If the supposed top three dems are in the race in October there are allot of financial, ethical, and of course family heritage that is food for fodder.

I know 4 folks, all over the age of 75, that had knee replacements. Not one of them did the work. No PT. No stretching. No bike. No diet/weight loss. 3 died within 2 years of having the knees done. What a complete waste.

We could fill the grand canyon with stories like this. Please, why obesity & lethargy aren't considered a form of suicide, hence illegal, I'll never know. Go Bloomie, go.

If you are 75, you should be able to walk a mile in 16 minutes.

[ggait]

I believe 80% of healthcare spending is devoted to the last few years of life.

+100

If people are too greedy or dumb or clueless to tell the docs to stand down, then we're gonna need some death panels to do it for them. I'm indifferent whether the death panel is the govt or an insurance company -- somebody has to do it.

I've seen the siblings massively mess this up four times with my parents and parents-in-law. Everyone died anyway, the aggressive care just imposed a lot of pointless suffering on the patient and the families, and those decisions probably ran up an incremental million bucks of debt that the kids and grandkids will have to pay off. While well meaning, those sibling decisions were outrageous and (imho) immoral.

As for me, I'm with Dr. Zeke Emmanuel. While I'm not hoping to die at 75, that's when I am going to stop going to the docs. Better to have an infection take me down at 78 than spend my 80s in a wheelchair and out of my mind! The docs are really good at extending the quantity of life; but they totally suck at extending the quality.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... 75/379329/

[Farfromgeneva]

I do find it an interesting commentary on American politics that universal healthcare is something that the entire western world is doing, yet it's considered "far left". If literally everyone is doing it, it's mainstream is it not?

I'll give credit to the right, they're good at labeling things and making those labels stick, regardless of how well they apply.

I don’t think we have or desire to use Canada and Europe as our benchmark ever. Whatever exceptionalism we still have in the world is partly based on our not following Europe’s lead like sheep. They’re far worse off in every way conceivable including healthcare service provided.

Why is it a labeling to reject a philosophy or organizational structure emanating out of countries with wildly different viewpoints on how to run a county?

[Farfromgeneva]

I believe 80% of healthcare spending is devoted to the last few years of life.

+100

If people are too greedy or dumb or clueless to tell the docs to stand down, then we're gonna need some death panels to do it for them. I'm indifferent whether the death panel is the govt or an insurance company -- somebody has to do it.

I've seen the siblings massively mess this up four times with my parents and parents-in-law. Everyone died anyway, the aggressive care just imposed a lot of pointless suffering on the patient and the families, and those decisions probably ran up an incremental million bucks of debt that the kids and grandkids will have to pay off. While well meaning, those sibling decisions were outrageous and (imho) immoral.

As for me, I'm with Dr. Zeke Emmanuel. While I'm not hoping to die at 75, that's when I am going to stop going to the docs. Better to have an infection take me down at 78 than spend my 80s in a wheelchair and out of my mind! The docs are really good at extending the quantity of life; but they totally suck at extending the quality.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... 75/379329/

This is a classic early 70s movie that’s got it right.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZzNlA9uZ0g

[a fan]

They’re far worse off in every way conceivable including healthcare service provided.

For guys like you and I? Sure.

But do you really think that's the case for the bottom 50% of earners in America?

And if we're doing such a great job for our system, why is Canada's less than half the cost per capita for health care provided?


If the free market is all that, our health care should cost far less than the fully socialized Countries. And be better across the board.

It's not.