Trump's Russian Collusion

[old salt]

Let's see what the IG finds & what he recommends.

And that's what you're doing in the series of posts above???
Who has been claiming we shouldn't wait?

I thought there was actually some meat on this bone, something had actually happened new, "Breaking News!", but we're constantly left from you guys with "Where's the Beef?"

Come on, you and 6ft and tech37 are peddling a conspiracy theory with zero credible basis.

Moreover, with specious claims that are incredibly insulting to the career professionals who protect our country from foreign adversaries, political corruption, domestic and foreign terrorism, etc, etc.

For shame.

Oh my ! For shame ! We're having some laughs, ...apparently at your expense.

Conspiracy theory with zero credible basis. ..
That's what your Trump -- Russia conspiracy theory has proven to be,
Syrzok was right -- no there, there.
Schiff isn't talking about evidence of crimes anymore -- it's now ethical lapses.
Mueller didn't deliver a kill shot. He fragged the TDS never Trumpers.
What a 3 year travesty.

[MDlaxfan76]

Let's see what the IG finds & what he recommends.

And that's what you're doing in the series of posts above???
Who has been claiming we shouldn't wait?

I thought there was actually some meat on this bone, something had actually happened new, "Breaking News!", but we're constantly left from you guys with "Where's the Beef?"

Come on, you and 6ft and tech37 are peddling a conspiracy theory with zero credible basis.

Moreover, with specious claims that are incredibly insulting to the career professionals who protect our country from foreign adversaries, political corruption, domestic and foreign terrorism, etc, etc.

For shame.

Oh my ! For shame ! We're having some laughs, ...apparently at your expense.

Conspiracy theory with zero credible basis. ..
That's what your Trump -- Russia conspiracy theory has proven to be,
Syrzok was right -- no there, there.
Schiff isn't talking about evidence of crimes anymore -- it's now ethical lapses.
Mueller didn't deliver a kill shot. He fragged the TDS never Trumpers.
What a 3 year travesty.

Yup, you love you some Russian borscht, don't you Salty?

[old salt]

The chief judge of the secret intelligence courts, Rosemary Collyer, has already delivered a report to DoJ saying that the court was not given full, truthful information in warrant applications.

It is extremely unlikely that there was anything unusual going on with Papadop. It is very likely he got standard/aggressive treatment.

As the link below indicates, the FISA court has been complaining about the FBI's candor in warrant applications for many years under D and R administrations both.

So the outrage about Papadop is pretty selective. There may be a systemic issue, but it has been around for a long time -- certainly since 9/11.

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/23/us/s ... cases.html

I'm not sure that Papadop was the subject of a FISA warrant.
It's been confirmed that Carter Page was (warrant released).
I've heard it reported (without documentation) that Flynn was,
possibly well before he joined the Trump campaign.

[old salt]

The chief judge of the secret intelligence courts, Rosemary Collyer, has already delivered a report to DoJ saying that the court was not given full, truthful information in warrant applications.

It is extremely unlikely that there was anything unusual going on with Papadop. It is very likely he got standard/aggressive treatment.

As the link below indicates, the FISA court has been complaining about the FBI's candor in warrant applications for many years under D and R administrations both.

So the outrage about Papadop is pretty selective. There may be a systemic issue, but it has been around for a long time -- certainly since 9/11.

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/23/us/s ... cases.html

This is at the heart of my comments about FISA.

If the FISA investigations show that FBI officials pushed the envelope with Trump's gang-----that says nothing to me. But Trumpfans will point to that and say "see, told you they were blah blah blah Deep State".

What I want to know is: what is standard SOP with FISA warrants? Bending the rules can EASILY be SOP. So can breaking them. In other words, if the FBI was acting like they normally act with FISA, that eliminates the Deep State conspiracy theories, and becomes a simple "I told you so" when it comes to FISA.

In other words, the libs and he ACLU warned you all about FISA, you ignored them. And if it turns out they were right, I don't want to hear any weak sauce complaining now that "your guy" suffered because of FISA. Moreover, if they ONLY investigate how Trump's boys were treated, and don't look at the overall system, I'm really going to be peeved.

That NYT article is 17 yrs old. There's been restrictions to the use of FISA since then.
Let's see what the IG reports about how Obama expanded the distribution of FISA intercepts & unmasking authotiry, after Trump became a candidate, & how those authorities were used. Maybe there's no there, there. Or Congress can pass further restrictions & oversight mechanisms. FISA is needed. The reform & restrictions need to be focused on it's use.

[old salt]

Senator McCarthy wrote :
Yup, you love you some Russian borscht, don't you Salty?

There you have it -- the updated Red Scare.
A handy excuse for the abuse of govt powers & the trampling of citizens rights.
Playing right into Putin's hands.

[a fan]

Let's see what the IG reports about how Obama expanded the distribution of FISA intercepts & unmasking authotiry, after Trump became a candidate, & how those authorities were used. Maybe there's no there, there. Or Congress can pass further restrictions & oversight mechanisms. FISA is needed. The reform & restrictions need to be focused on it's use.

Don't disagree it's needed. But simple things like giving Congress more briefings/oversight, and giving the DoJ more review/oversight to avoid partisan cr*p would be welcome.

I'm with Ggait----Occam's razor says that the FBI simply used their standard protocol if and when they dealt with Trump's crew. " It is very likely he got standard/aggressive treatment." as GGait put it, is the odds on favorite in my book.

[MDlaxfan76]

Senator McCarthy wrote :
Yup, you love you some Russian borscht, don't you Salty?

There you have it -- the updated Red Scare.
A handy excuse for the abuse of govt powers & the trampling of citizens rights.
Playing right into Putin's hands.

Sure, now that's what Putin wants, a US government that cracks down on Russian interference.

According to the Report:

Putin massively interfered.
Putin wanted Trump to win.
Trump knew.
Trump welcomed the help.
Trump pretended he didn't know.
The Russians knew he knew, but was lying about it.
Indeed, Trump et al lied about it, again and again and again, both during and after the Campaign.
Pres.Trump attacked the IC, said he believed Putin over his own IC heads, in Helsinki.
Candidate Trump lied about business dealing he was having with the Russians, needing Kremlin approval.
The Russians knew, but the American voters did not.

And much more...

And you and the Trump loyalists simply want to attack the professionals who saw elements, fragments, of what was going on and investigated?

Shame on you.

I have no issue with an IG examining these matters to ensure that policies and procedures are appropriate and followed both in letter and spirit. That's the IG's job.

[ggait]

I'm not sure that Papadop was the subject of a FISA warrant.

Page, Papadop, whatever. I'm betting that the Obama FBI was doing the same stuff (right or wrong) that the Bush FBI was doing and the Clinton FBI was doing. Come on Salty, since when did the FBI become the agency of the woke left pinko commies?

There's no partisan conspiracy cooked up just for Trump. Just the FBI keep on keeping on.

So spare us the selective outrage.

[tech37]

I'm not sure that Papadop was the subject of a FISA warrant.

Page, Papadop, whatever. I'm betting that the Obama FBI was doing the same stuff (right or wrong) that the Bush FBI was doing and the Clinton FBI was doing. Come on Salty, since when did the FBI become the agency of the woke left pinko commies?

There's no partisan conspiracy cooked up just for Trump. Just the FBI keep on keeping on.

So spare us the selective outrage.

Oh my the "boys will be boys" argument from the counselor. If that's the way things have always been done, now that it's being uncovered, you don't think it aught to be corrected? Amazing...

[LandM]

Rcubed
Yes love the pension and health benefits. Hopefully NY state does not belly flop in the next 20 years Hard to believe Andy makes those decisions so back on point career politicians, lawyers and diplomats against a fly by the seat of your pants - a winger. I will take the winger all day long.

The Russian outrage is hilarious- they have been doing it before most posters were born. The American public should be staring in a mirror and asking themselves why did I not do more research.

About the only thing I believe is the Russians, Chinese and Europeans are laughing their a$$ off. Btw the good Ole USA was caught spying and tapping on the German govt. one week of outrage and it was over. They moved on may a lesson learned?

[CU88]

Here’s the petition formally announcing in DC federal court the impeachment inquiry in which the House is now engaged. No ifs ands or buts. No ambiguity. The eagle has taken flight.


https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democ ... TITION.pdf

[LandM]

Unfortunately it is political and theatre - dems keep digging a bigger whole. Maybe 72 can come on and to tell us how deep it needs to be dug before a satellite can’t find it

[MDlaxfan76]

Here’s the petition formally announcing in DC federal court the impeachment inquiry in which the House is now engaged. No ifs ands or buts. No ambiguity. The eagle has taken flight.


https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democ ... TITION.pdf

Am I reading correctly that the ‘inquiry’ has to ndeed formally been initiated?

[old salt]

I'm not sure that Papadop was the subject of a FISA warrant.

Page, Papadop, whatever. I'm betting that the Obama FBI was doing the same stuff (right or wrong) that the Bush FBI was doing and the Clinton FBI was doing. Come on Salty, since when did the FBI become the agency of the woke left pinko commies?

There's no partisan conspiracy cooked up just for Trump. Just the FBI keep on keeping on.

So spare us the selective outrage.

Oh my the "boys will be boys" argument from the counselor. If that's the way things have always been done, now that it's being uncovered, you don't think it aught to be corrected? Amazing...

Yeah. They all do it. Yada yada yada.
If that's the case, Horowitz & Durham will give them a clean bill of health.

[Trinity]

Sen Burr says the Russians are planning something more malicious and chaotic for 2020.
Mitch and Trump are inviting it.

[a fan]

Yeah. They all do it. Yada yada yada.
If that's the case, Horowitz & Durham will give them a clean bill of health.

Impossible.

Horowitz & Durham would have to investigate ALL----or at the very least, a healthy chuck of---- FISA warrants in order to understand what the standard of behavior is for petitioning for a warrant. That would take years, not months.

Turning over every rock on a handful of warrants is easy. Doing the same with dozens of warrants takes more time and manpower than they were given.

[ggait]

Am I reading correctly that the ‘inquiry’ has to ndeed formally been initiated?

Not really. There's a lot less to this than meets the eye.

Under the federal rules of procedure, you can get grand jury materials disclosed “preliminarily to or in connection with a judicial proceeding.” Impeachment is certainly a proceeding. So anything that might be preliminary to impeachment rings the bell. It is the lowest of bars.

The Constitution only uses the word impeachment, and impeachment is the very end of the process (i.e. House takes a vote that approves impeachment articles). Constitution doesn't use or define any of the fuzzy terms that have been thrown around for months like "impeachment inquiry" or "preliminary impeachment inquiry" or "impeachment proceeding" or "investigation that might lead to an impeachment inquiry/proceeding" or "some kind of proceeding where we're gonna do a bunch of stuff that maybe might someday trend toward impeachment but actually maybe might not do that at the end of the day." It is left completely open to the House as to what winding path to take in order to finally reach the finish line (i.e. impeachment) or not.

So the House has long since hopped over that lowest of bars. You can call what the House is doing as something related to the I-word if you want to (Nadler), or you can say it hasn't done any I-word stuff if you want to (Pelosi). Neither is more correct than the other.

Kind of like "you can call me Ray; you can call me Jay; but you don't have to call me Johnson."

[tech37]

Unfortunately it is political and theatre - dems keep digging a bigger whole. Maybe 72 can come on and to tell us how deep it needs to be dug before a satellite can’t find it

Whoa!... you the man LandM... and "woke" too

[tech37]

Yeah. They all do it. Yada yada yada.
If that's the case, Horowitz & Durham will give them a clean bill of health.

Impossible.

Horowitz & Durham would have to investigate ALL----or at the very least, a healthy chuck of---- FISA warrants in order to understand what the standard of behavior is for petitioning for a warrant. That would take years, not months.

Turning over every rock on a handful of warrants is easy. Doing the same with dozens of warrants takes more time and manpower than they were given.

Not true. All they need to do is show/prove how FISA was politically abused by the Obama admin, and based on those revelations regulate or legislate new guidelines to safeguard against any reoccurrence.

[DMac]

ggait wrote
"you can call me Ray; you can call me Jay; but you don't have to call me Johnson.

But ya doesn't has ta call me Johnson.
Guy was hilarious with this ridiculousness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoYsfbq3vMc