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[wlaxnut]

BC's "fine" will not put them in with the elite next year, and perhaps for years to come. They'll be solid 2nd tier, but they won't seriously challenge for the ACC Conference Championship, or the National Championship.

BC was relevant at the elite level before last year or the year before that (and that wasnt with the big three at their god-like status)....wlaxphan makes a good point. You could have All-American talent sitting on the bench behind the "Big three". No one knows. I know you are pretty demonstrative on your opinions, but I will state , again, right now, BC will be fine. Will they be in the finals 4 years in a row, I doubt it, but your fall off the precipice just because they had players graduate may be short sighted. As you know, I have no dog in that kennel...I really don't care, but, it is good for the D1 Lax to have a BC as an alternate to the usual suspects, so I will continue to be bullish on them. In a year you may tell me I told you so, but I still think that the BC program is more than what they lost.

I don't see what I said that differs from what you said.

[wlaxnut]

...they will be just fine.

Coaches like Coach Acacia are concerned with the players they have NOW...NOT THOSE WHO GRADUATED.

With that in mind, Your Maryland Terrapins were undefeated (for the first time since 2001) whilst winning the Natty ‘Ship in 2017. That was the season AFTER the GOAT and Alice Mercer graduated.

Peace, out.

TL.

They're certainly not my Terps, and as I have stated before in different threads, Maryland has a superior coach, and system under that coach, and that's what makes them an elite program year after year, no matter who Reese puts on the field each new season.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make at me in all caps and rolling eyes. Obviously coach Acacia is only concerned with her class of student athletes now for next season. She wouldn't be a coach in division 1 if she had a different mindset or focus.

My definition of "fine" was very clearly outlined earlier in this thread. To spell it out again--BC has lost a huge amount of talent. They won't be close to the team they were last year. They won't seriously challenge for the ACC or National Titles. They will be a 2nd tier team (ranked in the 5 to 15 range) for the foreseeable future. That's my view on it. Just one small opinion from one insignificant voice.

[wlaxnut]

BC's "fine" will not put them in with the elite next year, and perhaps for years to come. They'll be solid 2nd tier, but they won't seriously challenge for the ACC Conference Championship, or the National Championship.

BC was relevant at the elite level before last year or the year before that (and that wasnt with the big three at their god-like status)....wlaxphan makes a good point. You could have All-American talent sitting on the bench behind the "Big three". No one knows. I know you are pretty demonstrative on your opinions, but I will state , again, right now, BC will be fine. Will they be in the finals 4 years in a row, I doubt it, but your fall off the precipice just because they had players graduate may be short sighted. As you know, I have no dog in that kennel...I really don't care, but, it is good for the D1 Lax to have a BC as an alternate to the usual suspects, so I will continue to be bullish on them. In a year you may tell me I told you so, but I still think that the BC program is more than what they lost.

I don't see what I said that differs from what you said.

And where did I ever say or imply that I thought BC would "fall off the precipice"? Is that how you interpret "solid 2nd tier"?

[wlaxnut]

With classes beginning in a month, does anyone know if there is a cutoff date for transferring students?

I don't believe there is a month during the summer as many can transfer mid-year. I believe Cece Finney spent the fall (not sure if she was there the entire semester) at UF before transferring to JHU and competing for Hopkins that same spring. Most transfers probably happen over the summer for the sake of logistics to avoid the headache of transferring credits that are mid-semester and partial tuition reimbursements. I don't know too much about it, just speculating. Transfers probably have to wait for the start of a new semester before they can fully matriculate. I'm sure there are many other factors I haven't considered or are ignorant to. Speaking from a strictly academic point of view, I believe many schools will accept qualified students late in the summer and possibly even early August simply because they want your money. Not sure how athletics and athletic scholarships would come into play.

Thanks very much for that full answer. It sheds a lot of light for me on the topic.

[wlaxnut]

Charlotte North is definitely sitting out a year; Don't know about the other two.

That’s a huge sacrifice, to sit out a whole year and watch others compete in a sport one is obviously very passionate about. I wonder what was the greater motivator – to get out of Duke, or to get to BC?

[Dr. Tact]

BC's "fine" will not put them in with the elite next year, and perhaps for years to come. They'll be solid 2nd tier, but they won't seriously challenge for the ACC Conference Championship, or the National Championship.

BC was relevant at the elite level before last year or the year before that (and that wasnt with the big three at their god-like status)....wlaxphan makes a good point. You could have All-American talent sitting on the bench behind the "Big three". No one knows. I know you are pretty demonstrative on your opinions, but I will state , again, right now, BC will be fine. Will they be in the finals 4 years in a row, I doubt it, but your fall off the precipice just because they had players graduate may be short sighted. As you know, I have no dog in that kennel...I really don't care, but, it is good for the D1 Lax to have a BC as an alternate to the usual suspects, so I will continue to be bullish on them. In a year you may tell me I told you so, but I still think that the BC program is more than what they lost.

I don't see what I said that differs from what you said.

And where did I ever say or imply that I thought BC would "fall off the precipice"? Is that how you interpret "solid 2nd tier"?

OK bad choice of words that I attributed to you. You get my point.

[wlaxnut]

BC's "fine" will not put them in with the elite next year, and perhaps for years to come. They'll be solid 2nd tier, but they won't seriously challenge for the ACC Conference Championship, or the National Championship.

BC was relevant at the elite level before last year or the year before that (and that wasnt with the big three at their god-like status)....wlaxphan makes a good point. You could have All-American talent sitting on the bench behind the "Big three". No one knows. I know you are pretty demonstrative on your opinions, but I will state , again, right now, BC will be fine. Will they be in the finals 4 years in a row, I doubt it, but your fall off the precipice just because they had players graduate may be short sighted. As you know, I have no dog in that kennel...I really don't care, but, it is good for the D1 Lax to have a BC as an alternate to the usual suspects, so I will continue to be bullish on them. In a year you may tell me I told you so, but I still think that the BC program is more than what they lost.

I don't see what I said that differs from what you said.

And where did I ever say or imply that I thought BC would "fall off the precipice"? Is that how you interpret "solid 2nd tier"?

OK bad choice of words that I attributed to you. You get my point.

Thanks, Doc

[Badlands]

I wouldn’t be surprised if BC has at least 4 extremely competent low defenders who didn’t get on the field last year.

[Badlands]

Charlotte North is definitely sitting out a year; Don't know about the other two.

That’s a huge sacrifice, to sit out a whole year and watch others compete in a sport one is obviously very passionate about. I wonder what was the greater motivator – to get out of Duke, or to get to BC?

Can’t players who transfer and lose a year of eligibility take a grad year to gain back the lost year? I really doubt most of these kids would transfer if they know the transfer limits them to three years of lacrosse.

[Dr. Tact]

Charlotte North is definitely sitting out a year; Don't know about the other two.

That’s a huge sacrifice, to sit out a whole year and watch others compete in a sport one is obviously very passionate about. I wonder what was the greater motivator – to get out of Duke, or to get to BC?

Can’t players who transfer and lose a year of eligibility take a grad year to gain back the lost year? I really doubt most of these kids would transfer if they know the transfer limits them to three years of lacrosse.

Yes. you have 5 years to compete 4 years. So, if you graduate early or on time and sat out a year for transfer or Redshirt, you can play a 5th year. Erica Evans did just that.

[Bart]

My definition of "fine" was very clearly outlined earlier in this thread. To spell it out again--BC has lost a huge amount of talent. They won't be close to the team they were last year. They won't seriously challenge for the ACC or National Titles. They will be a 2nd tier team (ranked in the 5 to 15 range) for the foreseeable future. That's my view on it. Just one small opinion from one insignificant voice.

Your definition of top tier and second tier is certainly different from mine. Teams ranked 5 - 10 not top tier? I would think any of the seeded teams are challenging for the National title......heck in 2017 BC and Navy challenged for the title and neither were seeded at all.

[wlaxnut]

My definition of "fine" was very clearly outlined earlier in this thread. To spell it out again--BC has lost a huge amount of talent. They won't be close to the team they were last year. They won't seriously challenge for the ACC or National Titles. They will be a 2nd tier team (ranked in the 5 to 15 range) for the foreseeable future. That's my view on it. Just one small opinion from one insignificant voice.

Your definition of top tier and second tier is certainly different from mine.

Obviously.

As my dad used to say, “That’s what makes me, me--and you, you.“

Teams ranked 5 - 10 not top tier?

Not in my book.

I would think any of the seeded teams are challenging for the National title......heck in 2017 BC and Navy challenged for the title and neither were seeded at all.

Challenging/challenged is another matter of opinion. Navy never made it to the final so I don’t consider them as having challenged for the title. BC never seriously threatened/challenged Maryland in the final game. Maryland jumped out in front, never trailed, and pretty much cruised from the beginning of the 2nd half when they scored 5 unanswered to take a chokehold on the game.

As far as seeded teams, this past year Michigan was seeded 8th. I can't imagine one serious pundit, or even casual fan, thinking that the upstart Wolverines could seriously challenge for the National Championship. Nor #7 Princeton, nor #6 Virginia, etc. Seedings don't mean much.

As far as the rest of the pack, nobody besides one-hit-wonder JMU has won the national title in the last seven years unless they were coached by Cathy Reese or Jenny Levy. Maryland and North Carolina are the two elite programs in the country. You’re going to have to beat one of these teams to hoist the national title. And since the Big Three, et al. graduated from BC, they are no longer serious threats to win the ACC Tournament, or the National Championship for the foreseeable future.

These are just my view points. I’m trying to advance clear and definite opinions. I don’t think wishy-washy is any fun. Besides, it is what I truly believe about women’s lacrosse at this stage in the sport.

[8meterPA]

Charlotte North is definitely sitting out a year; Don't know about the other two.

That’s a huge sacrifice, to sit out a whole year and watch others compete in a sport one is obviously very passionate about. I wonder what was the greater motivator – to get out of Duke, or to get to BC?

Can’t players who transfer and lose a year of eligibility take a grad year to gain back the lost year? I really doubt most of these kids would transfer if they know the transfer limits them to three years of lacrosse.

Yes. you have 5 years to compete 4 years. So, if you graduate early or on time and sat out a year for transfer or Redshirt, you can play a 5th year. Erica Evans did just that.

Interesting decision if you consider the transfer and being forced to sit out a year could cost $70,000 since you have to assume that all scholarships were already accounted for this year, so she would literally have to pay to sit. Assuming they may make it up in years 4 & 5 with promises of larger than typical portion of scholarship.

[Dr. Tact]

Interesting decision if you consider the transfer and being forced to sit out a year could cost $70,000 since you have to assume that all scholarships were already accounted for this year, so she would literally have to pay to sit. Assuming they may make it up in years 4 & 5 with promises of larger than typical portion of scholarship.

Well for most folks, yes....She did go to The Episcopal School Of Dallas ($30K annual), so maybe she isn't encumbered by tuition cost? I know in the Tact household, the $70 K would be a struggle.

And It isnt "pay to sit" but it could be looked at as one year of the degree Plus if she does the Grad route, she gets that first year paid for (to the value of the scholarship). So, assuming a 2 year grad degree is in the plans, she gets the first year and maybe works as a grad Assistant for that second year.

I am just guessing on the above

[wlaxnut]

I wouldn’t be surprised if BC has at least 4 extremely competent low defenders who didn’t get on the field last year.

I would be a little surprised, but not shocked.

[Bart]

As far as the rest of the pack, nobody besides one-hit-wonder JMU has won the national title in the last seven years unless they were coached by Cathy Reese or Jenny Levy. Maryland and North Carolina are the two elite programs in the country. You’re going to have to beat one of these teams to hoist the national title. And since the Big Three, et al. graduated from BC, they are no longer serious threats to win the ACC Tournament, or the National Championship for the foreseeable future.

Why 7 years? Lets look at the last 5. UNC has made the Final four 4/5 years. BC in final 4 for 3/5. Made the finals 2x and won one of those, oddly winning the same number as your one hit wonder JMU. BC, as was pointed out was 0/3 in finals. Seems that BC was pretty elite in the last 5 years if you look at the data. Certainly you are going to have to beat UNC or UMd to win but if you go back to the quarter finals the number of teams consistently there increases even more so one could say you need to beat x,y or z team to win the championship. But I will agree UNC and UMd have recently been on a run.

Lets now go back 10 years. UNC was in the final 4 a total of 7 times and in the national championship 3 times winning 2. That would be elite by any standard. Syracuse was in the final 4 a total of 6 times and in the national championship 2 times going 0 for 2. That seems fairly elite to me but without the national championship. What about N.Western? In the final four 6 times, national champion ship 3 times and won twice. Similar to UNC. If you go back further N.Western resume looks even more elite.

The only constant in the last 10 years is Maryland. Every final four, 8 final appearances and 5 championships. Elite to me is a program that consistently performs over a period of time. A program that looses a ton of talent but seems to replace it year after year. That certainly is Maryland but you could argue there are others out there in a similar boat. Maryland's run since 2009 is amazing in how they continually replace what they have lost with consistency but they too have had a period of less success in the past than they are having now.

As for BC next year? Only time will tell but if you believe all the "experts" they have had highly ranked recruiting classes for the past couple of years. Kids biding their time to make their mark then the Sr class has left. If BC is to move into that upper tier they need to show the consistency other programs have shown.

You and I obviously disagree on this. That is fine.

[LarryGamLax]

Isn't anyone somewhat suspicious of 3 players of that caliber ALL transferring to BC? Doesn't that raise anyone's hackles just a bit? And why would a player be willing to sit a year?

[wlaxnut]

Isn't anyone somewhat suspicious of 3 players of that caliber ALL transferring to BC? Doesn't that raise anyone's hackles just a bit? And why would a player be willing to sit a year?

In what way? I’m interested to hear your viewpoint.

Not sure I’d include Bridget Simmons in with that bunch. She seems to have been a depth transfer, although of course I could be wrong, but she hasn’t seemed to contribute much offensively for Albany. Maybe she has other great talents that don’t necessarily show up on the score sheet.

[wlaxnut]

As far as the rest of the pack, nobody besides one-hit-wonder JMU has won the national title in the last seven years unless they were coached by Cathy Reese or Jenny Levy. Maryland and North Carolina are the two elite programs in the country. You’re going to have to beat one of these teams to hoist the national title. And since the Big Three, et al. graduated from BC, they are no longer serious threats to win the ACC Tournament, or the National Championship for the foreseeable future.

Why 7 years? Lets look at the last 5. UNC has made the Final four 4/5 years. BC in final 4 for 3/5. Made the finals 2x and won one of those, oddly winning the same number as your one hit wonder JMU. BC, as was pointed out was 0/3 in finals. Seems that BC was pretty elite in the last 5 years if you look at the data. Certainly you are going to have to beat UNC or UMd to win but if you go back to the quarter finals the number of teams consistently there increases even more so one could say you need to beat x,y or z team to win the championship. But I will agree UNC and UMd have recently been on a run.

Lets now go back 10 years. UNC was in the final 4 a total of 7 times and in the national championship 3 times winning 2. That would be elite by any standard. Syracuse was in the final 4 a total of 6 times and in the national championship 2 times going 0 for 2. That seems fairly elite to me but without the national championship. What about N.Western? In the final four 6 times, national champion ship 3 times and won twice. Similar to UNC. If you go back further N.Western resume looks even more elite.

The only constant in the last 10 years is Maryland. Every final four, 8 final appearances and 5 championships. Elite to me is a program that consistently performs over a period of time. A program that looses a ton of talent but seems to replace it year after year. That certainly is Maryland but you could argue there are others out there in a similar boat. Maryland's run since 2009 is amazing in how they continually replace what they have lost with consistency but they too have had a period of less success in the past than they are having now.

As for BC next year? Only time will tell but if you believe all the "experts" they have had highly ranked recruiting classes for the past couple of years. Kids biding their time to make their mark then the Sr class has left. If BC is to move into that upper tier they need to show the consistency other programs have shown.

You and I obviously disagree on this. That is fine.

A team has to win the national championship at least once to be considered elite in my sports world. To compete at a high level isn’t enough. Virginia is a perfect example. They typically play one of the toughest, if not the toughest, schedule for the regular season and therefore typically have a high RPI. But when it comes to the ACC conference championship and the national championship, they are nowhere to be found. There are a number of other schools that fit into that category as well. Not elite.

[8meterPA]

Isn't anyone somewhat suspicious of 3 players of that caliber ALL transferring to BC? Doesn't that raise anyone's hackles just a bit? And why would a player be willing to sit a year?

I'm not suspicious but am somewhat disappointed as the "rich get richer". We always hear "grow the game" but when literally only have 3 or 4 teams that have a legitimate chance of winning the national championship, it actually is not "growing the game" it's hurting the game. The top teams already have a recruiting advantage and now through the portal they can add superstars in addition to recruiting.

It was refreshing when JMU won, but honestly who would bet against one of MD, NC or BU winning the next 5 years.