Pre-2020 summer transfers

[lakeshow1844]

Surprise!! Spoiler alert : D1 programs tend to be time consuming and sometimes physically demanding.

I tend to believe the gist of what Realguy is saying and surprised at the cynicism here because nothing seems outside the realm. Id assume any Seal training is closer to an introductory than advanced phase with intensity no greater than repeated wind sprints or hero training done by some for conditioning . Rowing boats near dawn to me is nothing more than a bonding experience that may be more enjoyable than early morning lifts.

Let's see, his original post contained these 6 beauties:

1. UMD lax is 'not about skill'
2. Tills 'over-recruits' (realguy must have a HUGE problem with Lars then!)
3. UMD has a ton of 'binge drinkers' because they don't see the field
4. Tills 'runs them into the ground like they are at USNA'
5. "Every conceivable rule is broken'
6. Dubick was made to feel 'insignificant' but he played anyway all because 'he was a legacy'

You believe the gist of this realguy? Seriously? You don't smell an agenda here? Tillman is more than a coach to the guys; he's an upstanding man, with a great family. God forbid he reads bs posts like that.

With regards to No. 2 - the 'over-recruiting' debate - the Terps certainly have more recruits coming in the 2019 (Rising College Freshmen) and 2020 (Rising HS Seniors) classes than the Cavs.

*Note: Rankings according to IL

2019:
Maryland [16]
No. 7 Nicholas DeMaio, A, Coronado (Calif.) / Brady’s Bunch
No. 9 Dylan Pallonetti, A, Ward Melville (N.Y.) / LI Express
No. 41 Justin Sherrer, LSM, Etowah (Ga.) / Thunder LB3
No. 43 Logan McNaney, G, Salisbury (Conn.) / SweetLax
No. 66 Conor Calderone, F/O, Smithtown West (N.Y.) / Laxachusetts
No. 69 Jack Brennan, A, Irondequoit (N.Y.) / SweetLax
No. 73 Kelan Duff, D, Culver (Ind.) / SweetLax

No. 78 Jack Sawyer, A/M, Calvert Hall (Md.) / FCA Maryland
No. 83 Dawson Wynne, M, Salisbury (Conn.) / SweetLax
Michael Mines, M, Torrey Pines (Calif.) / West Coast Starz
Ryan Siracusa, A, Centennial (Ga.) / Thunder LB3
Connor Whalen, LSM, Bishop Shanahan (Pa.) / Philly Freedom
Danny Maltz, A, Riverside (Va.) / SweetLax
Garrett Gibbons, M, Massapequa (N.Y.) / LI Outlaws
King Ripley, M, Hill Academy (Ont.) / Annapolis Hawks
Luke Wierman, F/O, Henderson (Pa.) / PA Roughriders

*Note: included DeMaio because he is a freshman this year by eligibility.

Virginia [8]
No. 1 Connor Shellenberger, A, St. Anne’s Belfield (Va.) / Madlax
No. 3 Scott Bower, D, Episcopal Dallas (Tex.) / Stick Star
No. 4 Gavin Tygh, F/O, Penn Charter (Pa.) / Big 4 HHH
No. 27 Quentin Matsui, LSM/D, Eden Prairie (Minn.) / Project Midwest
No. 30 Jake Giulieri, LSM/D, Georgetown Prep (Md.) / Blackwolf
No. 35 Peter Garno, M, Haverford (Pa.) / Mesa Fresh
No. 100 Drew Brennfleck, M, Mountain Lakes (N.J.) / STEPS
Daniel Parker, M, St. Anthony’s (N.Y.) / LI Express

2020
Maryland [10]
No. 4 Eric Malever, A, Woodward Academy (Ga.) / Thunder LB3
No. 10 Jack Schirtzer, LSM/D, Mount Sinai (N.Y.) / Team 91
No. 14 Jack Koras, A/M, Loyola Blakefield (Md.) / FCA Maryland
No. 18 Gabe Goforth, M, Bishop Shanahan (Pa.) / Philly Freedom
No. 45 Jackson Marshall, G, Calvert Hall (Md.) / FCA Maryland
No. 57 Alex Wicks, M, St. Mary’s (Md.) / Annapolis Hawks
No. 59 Payton Giberson, F/O, Oakdale (Md.) / Looney’s
No. 60 Michael O’Connell, M, Chaminade (N.Y.) / LI Express
No. 98 Ajax Zappitello, D, Sunset (Ore.) / Legends West
Nicholas Redd, LSM/D, Wilmington Friends (Del.) / Nation United

Virginia [8]
No. 8 Patrick McIntosh, A, Salisbury (Conn.) / SweetLax
No. 15 Russell Maher, A, Mount Sinai (N.Y.) / LI Express
No. 38 Jack Walshe, M, St. Anthony’s (N.Y.) / LI Express
No. 43 Michael Prestipino, D, Conestoga (Pa.) / Rising Sons
No. 44 Jake Naso, F/O, St. Anthony’s (N.Y.) / LI Legacy
No. 55 Connell Kumar, M, Seton Hall Prep (N.J.) / Leading Edge
No. 56 Ben Wayer, LSM, St. Stephen’s & St. Agnes (Va.) / Blackwolf
Mikie Harmeyer, A, Severna Park (Md.) / FCA Maryland

Only 16 recruits for Lars compared to 26 for Tills over the next 2 years. Seems like Lars is trying to move away from the MD/Hop/Cuse model of brining in as many guys as you can and finding your top guys from there. No doubt Tills gets both quantity and quality (not sure the same can be said about JHU and Cuse at this point), but seems like Lars is moving towards being more selective with smaller classes similar to Coach Dino in Durham.

I expect Tiffany to fill out those classes with a few in-state walk ons like Jack Peele - a sophomore middle from McLean, Va (#49) who contributed for the national champs on the 2nd line - but regardless, the Cavs staff seems to being going for less quantity in their recruiting classes than the MD staff at this point. It'll be interesting to follow how many guys these teams add to their 2020 classes over the next year.

[Comeonman]

The over-recruiting issue affects goalies most. UVA’s Rode was the #1 ranked guy in 2017 and Burkinshaw the same in 2018. Now Burkinshaw is gone. Maryland has McNaney coming in as the UA game MVP, but Drew Morris, who hasn’t really seen time yet as a rising junior, was #2 or #3 in 2017 and also an UA AA. Brandau was top 5 in 2018 but is leaving Georgetown, who started McElroy, who was highly ranked in 2017. I mentioned Willie Klan earlier. He was on the U19 team and is now looking for a second transfer.

[Wheels]

Ty Xanders is reporting that James Avanzato is transferring to Towson. Wish him luck. He will do well at Towson.

[Wheels]

it's all about the narrative Down Town Stinky Brown and I said over and again if a kid has the mettle to hang in there for 4 years he is better off for it. Tills is a good man but can be more demanding than most !

This is laughable. Ask former Hopkins players what it's like to play under Petro. Ask former Denver players what it's like to play under Tierney. Or Yale players about Shay.

[Cooter]

Ty Xanders is reporting that James Avanzato is transferring to Towson. Wish him luck. He will do well at Towson.

'

I wish him luck there too.

[Realguy]

Petro, Tierney and Shay are married and have children. Tills is married to and the father of Maryland Lacrosse, so yes Wheels more demanding than most.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Surprise!! Spoiler alert : D1 programs tend to be time consuming and sometimes physically demanding.

I tend to believe the gist of what Realguy is saying and surprised at the cynicism here because nothing seems outside the realm. Id assume any Seal training is closer to an introductory than advanced phase with intensity no greater than repeated wind sprints or hero training done by some for conditioning . Rowing boats near dawn to me is nothing more than a bonding experience that may be more enjoyable than early morning lifts.

Let's see, his original post contained these 6 beauties:

1. UMD lax is 'not about skill'
2. Tills 'over-recruits' (realguy must have a HUGE problem with Lars then!)
3. UMD has a ton of 'binge drinkers' because they don't see the field
4. Tills 'runs them into the ground like they are at USNA'
5. "Every conceivable rule is broken'
6. Dubick was made to feel 'insignificant' but he played anyway all because 'he was a legacy'

You believe the gist of this realguy? Seriously? You don't smell an agenda here? Tillman is more than a coach to the guys; he's an upstanding man, with a great family. God forbid he reads bs posts like that.

With regards to No. 2 - the 'over-recruiting' debate - the Terps certainly have more recruits coming in the 2019 (Rising College Freshmen) and 2020 (Rising HS Seniors) classes than the Cavs.

*Note: Rankings according to IL

2019:
Maryland [16]
No. 7 Nicholas DeMaio, A, Coronado (Calif.) / Brady’s Bunch
No. 9 Dylan Pallonetti, A, Ward Melville (N.Y.) / LI Express
No. 41 Justin Sherrer, LSM, Etowah (Ga.) / Thunder LB3
No. 43 Logan McNaney, G, Salisbury (Conn.) / SweetLax
No. 66 Conor Calderone, F/O, Smithtown West (N.Y.) / Laxachusetts
No. 69 Jack Brennan, A, Irondequoit (N.Y.) / SweetLax
No. 73 Kelan Duff, D, Culver (Ind.) / SweetLax

No. 78 Jack Sawyer, A/M, Calvert Hall (Md.) / FCA Maryland
No. 83 Dawson Wynne, M, Salisbury (Conn.) / SweetLax
Michael Mines, M, Torrey Pines (Calif.) / West Coast Starz
Ryan Siracusa, A, Centennial (Ga.) / Thunder LB3
Connor Whalen, LSM, Bishop Shanahan (Pa.) / Philly Freedom
Danny Maltz, A, Riverside (Va.) / SweetLax
Garrett Gibbons, M, Massapequa (N.Y.) / LI Outlaws
King Ripley, M, Hill Academy (Ont.) / Annapolis Hawks
Luke Wierman, F/O, Henderson (Pa.) / PA Roughriders

*Note: included DeMaio because he is a freshman this year by eligibility.

Virginia [8]
No. 1 Connor Shellenberger, A, St. Anne’s Belfield (Va.) / Madlax
No. 3 Scott Bower, D, Episcopal Dallas (Tex.) / Stick Star
No. 4 Gavin Tygh, F/O, Penn Charter (Pa.) / Big 4 HHH
No. 27 Quentin Matsui, LSM/D, Eden Prairie (Minn.) / Project Midwest
No. 30 Jake Giulieri, LSM/D, Georgetown Prep (Md.) / Blackwolf
No. 35 Peter Garno, M, Haverford (Pa.) / Mesa Fresh
No. 100 Drew Brennfleck, M, Mountain Lakes (N.J.) / STEPS
Daniel Parker, M, St. Anthony’s (N.Y.) / LI Express

2020
Maryland [10]
No. 4 Eric Malever, A, Woodward Academy (Ga.) / Thunder LB3
No. 10 Jack Schirtzer, LSM/D, Mount Sinai (N.Y.) / Team 91
No. 14 Jack Koras, A/M, Loyola Blakefield (Md.) / FCA Maryland
No. 18 Gabe Goforth, M, Bishop Shanahan (Pa.) / Philly Freedom
No. 45 Jackson Marshall, G, Calvert Hall (Md.) / FCA Maryland
No. 57 Alex Wicks, M, St. Mary’s (Md.) / Annapolis Hawks
No. 59 Payton Giberson, F/O, Oakdale (Md.) / Looney’s
No. 60 Michael O’Connell, M, Chaminade (N.Y.) / LI Express
No. 98 Ajax Zappitello, D, Sunset (Ore.) / Legends West
Nicholas Redd, LSM/D, Wilmington Friends (Del.) / Nation United

Virginia [8]
No. 8 Patrick McIntosh, A, Salisbury (Conn.) / SweetLax
No. 15 Russell Maher, A, Mount Sinai (N.Y.) / LI Express
No. 38 Jack Walshe, M, St. Anthony’s (N.Y.) / LI Express
No. 43 Michael Prestipino, D, Conestoga (Pa.) / Rising Sons
No. 44 Jake Naso, F/O, St. Anthony’s (N.Y.) / LI Legacy
No. 55 Connell Kumar, M, Seton Hall Prep (N.J.) / Leading Edge
No. 56 Ben Wayer, LSM, St. Stephen’s & St. Agnes (Va.) / Blackwolf
Mikie Harmeyer, A, Severna Park (Md.) / FCA Maryland

Only 16 recruits for Lars compared to 26 for Tills over the next 2 years. Seems like Lars is trying to move away from the MD/Hop/Cuse model of brining in as many guys as you can and finding your top guys from there. No doubt Tills gets both quantity and quality (not sure the same can be said about JHU and Cute at this point), but seems like Lars is moving towards being more selective with smaller classes similar to Coach Dino in Durham.

I expect Tiffany to fill out those classes with a few in-state walk ons like Jack Peele - a sophomore middle from McLean, Va (#49) who contributed for the national champs on the 2nd line - but regardless, the Cavs staff seems to being going for less quantity in their recruiting classes than the MD staff at this point. It'll be interesting to follow how many guys these teams add to their 2020 classes over the next year.

UVA has a cap at around 44 players.

[Cooter]

One of the differences between UMd and UVa is that UMd tends to have a roster of 48 or so, while UVa's tends to be around 42.

UVa tends to have better retention of its players than UMd does. UMd tends to lose 2-3 freshmen before the end of their first year.

I think UVa tends to bring in a recruit who is a bit stronger academically and has a bigger desire to complete his degree at UVa.

Players who make it into the starting/regular rotation at UMd, rarely leave, but the backend of UMd's roster tends to be a bit of a revolving door. (We can see Avanzato going to Towson, and I was just noticing Ryder Mora was playing club ball at USC this past Spring.) Sometimes, it seems that Tillman needs to bring in some transfers just to keep up the numbers (depth).

[Farfromgeneva]

Seeing some movement happening, anything hear on either Seay and Bellarmine or the Pole from marquette I the portal?

[Comeonman]

Not sure why Grill would transfer, other than the graft that Amplo is gone. But he can’t follow him to the academy. He is a rising senior and has started since his freshman year. No redshirt. No injuries. Perhaps he graduated in three years and wants to land a spot with a perennial powerhouse and grab a title as a grad student. Any past examples of guys transferring their senior year?

[Seahawk]

I read somewhere that King Ripley was going PG in 2019 since he was a HS Sr this year at St Mary’s in Annapolis.

[Seahawk]

I read somewhere that King Ripley in the MD list was going PG in 2019 since he was a HS Sr this year at St Mary’s in Annapolis.

[TheBigIguana]

Maryland definitely over recruits. They have top 100 recruits transferring out every year. No other program has that problem.

[AreaLax]

Not sure why Grill would transfer, other than the graft that Amplo is gone. But he can’t follow him to the academy. He is a rising senior and has started since his freshman year. No redshirt. No injuries. Perhaps he graduated in three years and wants to land a spot with a perennial powerhouse and grab a title as a grad student. Any past examples of guys transferring their senior year?

Pat Young left UMBC for Maryland his Sr year

[Cooter]

I read somewhere that King Ripley in the MD list was going PG in 2019 since he was a HS Sr this year at St Mary’s in Annapolis.

King Ripley was playing ssdm for the HIll Academy this past Spring.

[Homer]

Seeing some movement happening, anything hear on either Seay and Bellarmine or the Pole from marquette I the portal?

Funny, the first time I read this my initial thought was wondering what Polish kid this was referring to and trying to come up with a name like Novak or Kaminsky or something.

[Cooter]

Maryland definitely over recruits. They have top 100 recruits transferring out every year. No other program has that problem.

Sometimes the rankings are wrong, and we are still dealing with early recruits.
While it does look like Tillman has over-recruited a bit at attack, although Tillman does use attackmen at midfield, the Terps just have 3 goalies and 3 FOmen heading into the fall. Tillman also needed to bring in transfer LSM Ubriaco to shore up the defense (a ranked recruit).

I think Tillman recruits the way he needs to to be a success at UMd.

I have noticed that you, Hopkins' fans, Big Iguana, have gotten pretty content at not competing for the title these days, but at UMd we still like to be among the top contenders.

[Realguy]

In 2017 Maryland had 26 Freshman and Sophomores on 50 man roster for the National Championship team. By the end of 2019 , 11 were no longer Terps. Conversely, Duke had 21 Freshman / Sophomores on a 42 man roster I 2017 and by the end of 2019 all 21 still remained with the team. UVA had 23 / 44 respective frosh/soph to roster size in 2017 Tiffany's first year so these aren't even his recruits. By the end of the 2019 all but 3 out of the 23 were no longer on the roster. So unless I am missing something there definitely is a force or reason that caused 40 % of those kids not to stick around and let's not forget the 3-4 recruits that don't make out of fall ball and on to the spring roster. Those 3-4 players roughly make up 25 % of the incoming recruits so that only makes you think What the heck is happening each and every year from the time they hit campus in late August until Christmas break. I think with the new portal mania you may see 5-6 kids enter the portal prior to the break unless something changes.Kids and parents today want instant gratification, together with social media everyone wants to post how great their life is.

[palaxoff]

In 2017 Maryland had 26 Freshman and Sophomores on 50 man roster for the National Championship team. By the end of 2019 , 11 were no longer Terps. Conversely, Duke had 21 Freshman / Sophomores on a 42 man roster I 2017 and by the end of 2019 all 21 still remained with the team. UVA had 23 / 44 respective frosh/soph to roster size in 2017 Tiffany's first year so these aren't even his recruits. By the end of the 2019 all but 3 out of the 23 were no longer on the roster. So unless I am missing something there definitely is a force or reason that caused 40 % of those kids not to stick around and let's not forget the 3-4 recruits that don't make out of fall ball and on to the spring roster. Those 3-4 players roughly make up 25 % of the incoming recruits so that only makes you think What the heck is happening each and every year from the time they hit campus in late August until Christmas break. I think with the new portal mania you may see 5-6 kids enter the portal prior to the break unless something changes.Kids and parents today want instant gratification, together with social media everyone wants to post how great their life is.

I think this is a much more complex issue then it is tougher at one school or another. For example, the kids I coach and the parents I talk to, the first thing out of my mouth when I hear they are thinking DI is "You will be a student/athlete that means you have 2 full time jobs at school. Think 40 hours student- 40 hours athlete." I also point out the there are roughly 3000 D1 lacrosse players of which probably half will never get significant playing time. I think a lot of young men are so focused on being a D1 Athlete they lose the bigger picture. Once they get to school and live the reality of full time 24/7 lacrosse and all of the sudden they are the king of the hill anymore, they start seeing the bigger picture of life. Lacrosse will end and life will continue.

Also I don't know how accurate this is but I had 2 coaches tell me they expect about a 25% attrition rate for the kids they recruit for a variety of reason including injury.

[Realguy]

In 2017 Maryland had 26 Freshman and Sophomores on 50 man roster for the National Championship team. By the end of 2019 , 11 were no longer Terps. Conversely, Duke had 21 Freshman / Sophomores on a 42 man roster I 2017 and by the end of 2019 all 21 still remained with the team. UVA had 23 / 44 respective frosh/soph to roster size in 2017 Tiffany's first year so these aren't even his recruits. By the end of the 2019 all but 3 out of the 23 were no longer on the roster. So unless I am missing something there definitely is a force or reason that caused 40 % of those kids not to stick around and let's not forget the 3-4 recruits that don't make out of fall ball and on to the spring roster. Those 3-4 players roughly make up 25 % of the incoming recruits so that only makes you think What the heck is happening each and every year from the time they hit campus in late August until Christmas break. I think with the new portal mania you may see 5-6 kids enter the portal prior to the break unless something changes.Kids and parents today want instant gratification, together with social media everyone wants to post how great their life is.

I think this is a much more complex issue then it is tougher at one school or another. For example, the kids I coach and the parents I talk to, the first thing out of my mouth when I hear they are thinking DI is "You will be a student/athlete that means you have 2 full time jobs at school. Think 40 hours student- 40 hours athlete." I also point out the there are roughly 3000 D1 lacrosse players of which probably half will never get significant playing time. I think a lot of young men are so focused on being a D1 Athlete they lose the bigger picture. Once they get to school and live the reality they start seeing the bigger picture of life. Lacrosse will end and life will continue.

Also I don't know how accurate this is but I had 2 coaches tell me they expect about a 25% attrition rate for the kids they recruit for a variety of reason including injury.

I think that is the fairest and most comprehensive assessment I have heard yet.