All Things Russia & Ukraine

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a fan
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:29 pmYou seem to exist in a state of constant bafflement. It is what it is.
Instead of acknowledging it & taking reasonable steps, as individual citizens (& the MSM), to recognize & counter it.
That's precisely what myself and other posters called for....your reaction was to make fun of us. For two 1/2 years. Want me to dredge up the posts?

Now you're acting like that never happened, and have completely reversed your position. And the cherry on top.....playing dumb as to why I'm confused.
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:29 pm We continue to use it as a political cudgel to hammer Trump.
Yes. That's politics. And that's the price Trump and his fellow convicted felons have to pay for all the lying they did surrounding Russians.
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:29 pm It was not the "act of war" it was hyped into. It is standard, long practiced, disinformation, delivered via cyber-platforms.
It's only as effective as we allow it to be.
Yes. And you waved it through, and told us to change our passwords, mocking us if we dared to get angry about getting attacked.

And what are you and FoxNation doing? Pretending it didn't happen, or diminishing what happened every chance you get.

You called us Russiaphobes, for heaven's sake.


As for your "standard, long practiced, disinformation, delivered via cyber-platforms." Don't you think that it would be wise to consider knocking it off?

What happens if/when it escalates?
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:41 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:29 pmYou seem to exist in a state of constant bafflement. It is what it is.
Instead of acknowledging it & taking reasonable steps, as individual citizens (& the MSM), to recognize & counter it.
That's precisely what myself and other posters called for....your reaction was to make fun of us. For two 1/2 years. Want me to dredge up the posts?

Now you're acting like that never happened, and have completely reversed your position. And the cherry on top.....playing dumb as to why I'm confused.
Oh Boo Hoo. I also told you about Russian unconventional warfare, with little green men, PSYOPS & cyber, as practiced in the Baltics.
We saw it coming. Obama (rightly) chose to downplay it rather than be accused of trying to politicize the election.

old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:29 pm We continue to use it as a political cudgel to hammer Trump.
Yes. That's politics. And that's the price Trump and his fellow convicted felons have to pay for all the lying they did surrounding Russians.
...which had nothing to do with Russia's cyber PSYOPS.
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:29 pm It was not the "act of war" it was hyped into. It is standard, long practiced, disinformation, delivered via cyber-platforms.
It's only as effective as we allow it to be.
Yes. And you waved it through, and told us to change our passwords, mocking us if we dared to get angry about getting attacked.
Change your password referred to Podesta's cyber-stupidity & the DNC dodging the FBI's warning calls.
And what are you and FoxNation doing? Pretending it didn't happen, or diminishing what happened every chance you get.
It wasn't that big of a deal.
You called us Russiaphobes, for heaven's sake.
You are.

As for your "standard, long practiced, disinformation, delivered via cyber-platforms." Don't you think that it would be wise to consider knocking it off?

What happens if/when it escalates?
You can't "knock it off" anymore than you can prevent pre-cyber propaganda. Radio Moscow vs Radio Free Europe.
The govt & MSM calling it out when it happens & calling out the social media disinformation is the best defense.
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm It wasn't that big of a deal.

Dude. So which is it? This is why I'm confused.

Here's one statement from you "It's the new form of warfare. There's been warnings about it for years.Instead of taking rational steps to counter it..."

This is the statement I agree with. Take rational steps to counter it, which includes sanctions. But you call me a Russiaphobe for suggesting this path. The path that you are advocating. Dude. Are you drunk or something?


And then another statement, counseling the opposite "It wasn't that big of a deal".
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm You called us Russiaphobes, for heaven's sake.
There is one, and only one person on this site who is scared of Putin, and scared of another Cold War.

One guy who advocates appeasing Putin, and ignoring his cyberattacks.

It ain't me.
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm You can't "knock it off" anymore than you can prevent pre-cyber propaganda. Radio Moscow vs Radio Free Europe.
If this it true, then the obvious path is hit them nonstop, with everything we have. Take our GDP and crush them. Take out their power, elections, media, all of it.
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:16 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm It wasn't that big of a deal.

Dude. So which is it? This is why I'm confused.

Here's one statement from you "It's the new form of warfare. There's been warnings about it for years.Instead of taking rational steps to counter it..."

This is the statement I agree with. Take rational steps to counter it, which includes sanctions. But you call me a Russiaphobe for suggesting this path. The path that you are advocating. Dude. Are you drunk or something?


And then another statement, counseling the opposite "It wasn't that big of a deal".
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm You called us Russiaphobes, for heaven's sake.
There is one, and only one person on this site who is scared of Putin, and scared of another Cold War.

One guy who advocates appeasing Putin, and ignoring his cyberattacks.

It ain't me.
Good grief ! I posted an article describing, in detail, the changing Russian threat.
Unlike nuc or conventional military warfare, it is not an existential threat.

I'm not scared of Putin. He's not worth fighting. Russia is not near the long term threat that China is.
Putin does not seek a military war with us, but we could stumble into one, as our mutual saber rattling maneuvers continue to escalate. We have other more legit threats. Putin & Russia consume too much of our national attention & military deterrence capability.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:28 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:16 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm It wasn't that big of a deal.

Dude. So which is it? This is why I'm confused.

Here's one statement from you "It's the new form of warfare. There's been warnings about it for years.Instead of taking rational steps to counter it..."

This is the statement I agree with. Take rational steps to counter it, which includes sanctions. But you call me a Russiaphobe for suggesting this path. The path that you are advocating. Dude. Are you drunk or something?


And then another statement, counseling the opposite "It wasn't that big of a deal".
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm You called us Russiaphobes, for heaven's sake.
There is one, and only one person on this site who is scared of Putin, and scared of another Cold War.

One guy who advocates appeasing Putin, and ignoring his cyberattacks.

It ain't me.
Good grief ! I posted an article describing, in detail, the changing Russian threat.
Unlike nuc or conventional military warfare, it is not an existential threat.

I'm not scared of Putin. He's not worth fighting. Russia is not near the long term threat that China is.
Putin does not seek a military war with us, but we could stumble into one, as our mutual saber rattling maneuvers continue to escalate. We have other more legit threats. Putin & Russia consume too much of our national attention & military deterrence capability.
The 'existential' threat is to western 'liberal' democracy.
The threat is authoritarianism and bigotry.

If you don't think that's a big deal, we part company.
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:35 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:28 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:16 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm It wasn't that big of a deal.

Dude. So which is it? This is why I'm confused.

Here's one statement from you "It's the new form of warfare. There's been warnings about it for years.Instead of taking rational steps to counter it..."

This is the statement I agree with. Take rational steps to counter it, which includes sanctions. But you call me a Russiaphobe for suggesting this path. The path that you are advocating. Dude. Are you drunk or something?


And then another statement, counseling the opposite "It wasn't that big of a deal".
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm You called us Russiaphobes, for heaven's sake.
There is one, and only one person on this site who is scared of Putin, and scared of another Cold War.

One guy who advocates appeasing Putin, and ignoring his cyberattacks.

It ain't me.
Good grief ! I posted an article describing, in detail, the changing Russian threat.
Unlike nuc or conventional military warfare, it is not an existential threat.

I'm not scared of Putin. He's not worth fighting. Russia is not near the long term threat that China is.
Putin does not seek a military war with us, but we could stumble into one, as our mutual saber rattling maneuvers continue to escalate. We have other more legit threats. Putin & Russia consume too much of our national attention & military deterrence capability.
The 'existential' threat is to western 'liberal' democracy.
The threat is authoritarianism and bigotry.

If you don't think that's a big deal, we part company.
Not a big enough threat to prevent us from engaging with Russia, as we are with China, & as we are attempting to do with N Korea & Iran.
..or Turkey, the Philippines, Vietnam, Egypt, Saudi Arabia or others.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:06 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:35 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:28 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:16 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm It wasn't that big of a deal.

Dude. So which is it? This is why I'm confused.

Here's one statement from you "It's the new form of warfare. There's been warnings about it for years.Instead of taking rational steps to counter it..."

This is the statement I agree with. Take rational steps to counter it, which includes sanctions. But you call me a Russiaphobe for suggesting this path. The path that you are advocating. Dude. Are you drunk or something?


And then another statement, counseling the opposite "It wasn't that big of a deal".
old salt wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 pm You called us Russiaphobes, for heaven's sake.
There is one, and only one person on this site who is scared of Putin, and scared of another Cold War.

One guy who advocates appeasing Putin, and ignoring his cyberattacks.

It ain't me.
Good grief ! I posted an article describing, in detail, the changing Russian threat.
Unlike nuc or conventional military warfare, it is not an existential threat.

I'm not scared of Putin. He's not worth fighting. Russia is not near the long term threat that China is.
Putin does not seek a military war with us, but we could stumble into one, as our mutual saber rattling maneuvers continue to escalate. We have other more legit threats. Putin & Russia consume too much of our national attention & military deterrence capability.
The 'existential' threat is to western 'liberal' democracy.
The threat is authoritarianism and bigotry.

If you don't think that's a big deal, we part company.
Not a big enough threat to prevent us from engaging with Russia, as we are with China, & as we are attempting to do with N Korea & Iran.
..or Turkey, the Philippines, Vietnam, Egypt, Saudi Arabia or others.
I'm all for 'engaging', but not appeasement or capitulation, much less corruption.
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by OCanada »

Someone needs to get serious. Our policies are no longer emphasizing human right as a factor cf trump on arms sales, Russian sanctions, worker protections in trade agreements and rewarding countries like NK etc.

Not to mention Trump has become more of an existential threat to those values here. Engage? Not the word that accurately describes what he is doing with his appeasement and pandering. He is weak not strong
Trinity
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by Trinity »

Russian media is celebrating ownership of Trump after the G20.

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowit ... -air-force
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by Trinity »

Trump Tower lawyer Natalia V’s handler is dead in a helicopter crash.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-o ... er-is-dead
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

OCanada wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:24 am Someone needs to get serious. Our policies are no longer emphasizing human right as a factor cf trump on arms sales, Russian sanctions, worker protections in trade agreements and rewarding countries like NK etc.

Not to mention Trump has become more of an existential threat to those values here. Engage? Not the word that accurately describes what he is doing with his appeasement and pandering. He is weak not strong
Old Sailor can weigh in on behalf of Trump.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:48 am
OCanada wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:24 am Someone needs to get serious. Our policies are no longer emphasizing human right as a factor cf trump on arms sales, Russian sanctions, worker protections in trade agreements and rewarding countries like NK etc.

Not to mention Trump has become more of an existential threat to those values here. Engage? Not the word that accurately describes what he is doing with his appeasement and pandering. He is weak not strong
Old Sailor can weigh in on behalf of Trump.
Weak not strong ? Tanks on the Mall -- just like Tiananmen Square.
OCanada
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by OCanada »

Strong? Nope he is a weak man. He has the resources to let others be strong in his name. But by himself? Pffft
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by OCanada »

A recent example of the russiaphiles at work. You will recognize some names and the approach might even seem familiar. Last anyone forget the Xonrirurion is a "liberal" document with its foundation the enlightenment


by Casey Michel


Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin declared in an interview that liberalism is, once and for all, dead.

“The liberal idea has become obsolete,” Putin said in an interview with the Financial Times. “It has come into conflict with the interests of the overwhelming majority of the population.” Putin pointed to a range of issues roiling Western polities, from migration debates to financial issues to continued attempts to expand LGBTQ rights. (Note: these are issues the right wing plays up to create divisions )

“[Liberals] cannot simply dictate anything to anyone just like they have been attempting to do over the recent decades,” Putin added. “Our western partners have admitted that some elements of the liberal idea, such as multiculturalism, are no longer tenable.”

Responses to Putin’s claim varied widely. Some analysts described the Russian president’s remarks as misplaced triumphalism; others viewed them as the latest in a long line of attempts to troll the West.

President Donald Trump seemed to completely misunderstand Putin’s statements, claiming that Putin was criticizing about how liberal-run American cities, like those along the U.S. west coast. (Note: Misunderstanding is a constant)

But Putin’s statements didn’t have one intended audience or purpose. They were unmistakable signals — clear dog-whistles — to Putin’s far-right supporters across the West, including in the United States. And those dog-whistles about the supposed “obsolete” nature of liberalism were heard loud and clear.

At Virginia Dare, a far-right rag that routinely pushes white nationalist material, Pat Buchanan, a former speechwriter for Richard Nixon, praised Putin’s position. “Is Putin right?”, Buchanan asked, describing Putin’s “confident claim.” Apparently so, according to Buchanan, who said the recent G-20 summit “appeared to validate [Putin’s] thesis.” (One commentator responded to Buchanan’s comments by writing, “Russia should be our greatest ally!”)

Buchanan’s analysis was tweeted out by Peter Brimelow, a key American white nationalist publisher. Former InfoWars conspiracy theorist Paul Joseph Watson, who had previously backed Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, also tweeted out Putin’s claim.


Peter Brimelow
@peterbrimelow
Pat Buchanan: 'Putin praised Trump's efforts to secure the U.S. border: "This liberal idea presupposes that ... migrants can kill, plunder and rape with impunity because their rights as migrants have to be protected."' https://twitter.com/vdare/status/1145821072660369408
Virginia Dare
@vdare
Is Putin Right? Has Liberalism Lost the World?

"The liberal idea has become obsolete. ... (Liberals) cannot simply dictate anything to anyone as they have been attempting to do over the recent decades." -Vladimir Putin https://vdare.com/articles/patrick-j-bu ... -the-world


Buchanan’s position fits within a longer trajectory of his willingness to praise Putin, which dates back to at least 2014. At that time, amid Russian attempts to break up Ukraine wholesale, Buchanan began wondering aloud whether “God” was on Putin’s side.

“In the culture war for the future of mankind, Putin is planting Russia’s flag firmly on the side of traditional Christianity,” Buchanan wrote at the time. Five years on, Buchanan is singing very much the same tune, describing Putin in the white nationalist Virginia Dare journal as a “Russian nationalist who seeks the return of her lost peoples to the Motherland[.]”

But Buchanan wasn’t the only voice among the morass of the American far-right to praise Putin’s recent claim. The anti-Semitic Russia Insider outlet, whose founder previously attempted to obtain funding from now-sanctioned Russian oligarchs, likewise applauded Putin’s claim.

“Putin is right, liberalism is dead,” blared a headline on the site. The bizarre write-up ranged from praising Putin’s rhetoric — “Putin capped off his argument by ever so gently and politely putting the boot in,” read one line — to veering into discussion about how to end the overpopulation of Earth. (“That is, it may very well be the case that Earth is overpopulated with you, but that, of course, is for you alone to decide. If you feel sufficiently strongly about this matter, you should perhaps take charge and rid the planet of your good self,” the piece read.)

Liberalism, of course, is far from dead, as evidenced by everything from recent mass protests in Hong Kong and Sudan to the continued expansions of rights across the West.

“Liberalism is not a utopian project, it is a work in perpetual progress,” Financial Times’ Martin Wolf wrote. “It is an approach to living together that starts from the primacy of human agency. But that is only the starting point. Making that approach work requires constant adaptation and adjustment.”

Likewise, Putin’s claim about the apparently obsolete nature comes as Russia’s economy continues to teeter, and as recent anti-authoritarian protests in Russia rocked the Kremlin.

Those realities help reframe Putin’s claim less as a mere observation and more as an attempt at distracting from the stagnation continue to undercut Russia — a distraction that voices on the American far-right are only too happy to play up, as they continue to back Putin’s regime.

NOTE" The far right did not do well for the most part in the most recent European elections.
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by old salt »

Putin was probably responding to the success of the US Women's Soccer team.

You Russophobes are so insecure.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:26 pm Putin was probably responding to the success of the US Women's Soccer team.

You Russophobes are so insecure.
And you and Infowars are all together chortling about Putin is succeeding.
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:31 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:26 pm Putin was probably responding to the success of the US Women's Soccer team.

You Russophobes are so insecure.
And you and Infowars are all together chortling about Putin is succeeding.
He's succeeding because of you & your fellow TDS McCarthyites.

You questioned my post about CNN's non-coverage on Trump's speech, but I can no longer locate the post.
If you watched on CNN, you missed the fly overs of Marine, Navy & Army aircraft
& maybe the Blue Angels, depending of if/when CNN resumed coverage.
a fan
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:37 pm He's succeeding because of you & your fellow TDS McCarthyites.
How do you figure this? Americans are upset that their elections are under attack by Putin, and "therefore"......what?

What do you think follows the "therefore" part?
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: All Things Russia

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:37 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:31 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:26 pm Putin was probably responding to the success of the US Women's Soccer team.

You Russophobes are so insecure.
And you and Infowars are all together chortling about Putin is succeeding.
He's succeeding because of you & your fellow TDS McCarthyites.

You questioned my post about CNN's non-coverage on Trump's speech, but I can no longer locate the post.
If you watched on CNN, you missed the fly overs of Marine, Navy & Army aircraft
& maybe the Blue Angels, depending of if/when CNN resumed coverage.

I saw the flyovers at a cubs game a couple of years ago!!
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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