The Fourth Estate and Politics

[a fan]

Yes that is my point in red. I was openly admitting that BOTH SIDES DO THE SAME THING and the left is currently doing the same --> Trump in this instance. But as expected, because you have a complete disdain for Trump, your reply is written with precision to be absolutely certain to justify their (the MSM) behavior towards Trump without acknowledging fault or bias on their part.

The MSM isn't the left. Ask any real lefty----the MSM is "the Man". The center.

I'd argue the same for FoxNation, actually. Only difference is, their viewers didn't notice that FoxNation (Fox, Rush, Hannity, et. al.) changed when Trump took power. They are no longer conservative. They are now Republican as in: "our values are whatever Republican leader Trump says our values are".

They no longer champion small government. They no longer champion free market over government controlled markets (think tariffs). They no longer champion States rights over Federal rights. If they did, they'd be hammering Trump. Obviously they cheer anything and everything Trump does to the point of absurdity. I could list the values FoxViewers have abandoned in two short years until the cows come home.

Conservative America is adrift at sea. The scary part for me is: where will they pull into port?

[youthathletics]

Yes that is my point in red. I was openly admitting that BOTH SIDES DO THE SAME THING and the left is currently doing the same --> Trump in this instance. But as expected, because you have a complete disdain for Trump, your reply is written with precision to be absolutely certain to justify their (the MSM) behavior towards Trump without acknowledging fault or bias on their part.

The MSM isn't the left. Ask any real lefty----the MSM is "the Man". The center.

I'd argue the same for FoxNation, actually. Only difference is, their viewers didn't notice that FoxNation (Fox, Rush, Hannity, et. al.) changed when Trump took power. They are no longer conservative. They are now Republican as in: "our values are whatever Republican leader Trump says our values are".

They no longer champion small government. They no longer champion free market over government controlled markets (think tariffs). They no longer champion States rights over Federal rights. If they did, they'd be hammering Trump. Obviously they cheer anything and everything Trump does to the point of absurdity. I could list the values FoxViewers have abandoned in two short years until the cows come home.

Conservative America is adrift at sea. The scary part for me is: where will they pull into port?

Seems the MSM is the left, considering they are not airing the National 4th parade in DC.

https://twitter.com/breakingnlive/statu ... 56993?s=21

[a fan]

I take it you didn't bother checking to see if that tweet was right or not.

Meanwhile, here's ABC's livestream of the event:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlxOwx9ixII

And NBC's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlxOwx9ixII

And USAToday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8xDUIUTH1U

And FoxNews:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YraeqH0VCqQ


Shall I continue?

Btw, Fox itself? Couldn't be bothered. They ran a Judge Judy Marathon instead. Damn libs.

[MDlaxfan76]

Yes that is my point in red. I was openly admitting that BOTH SIDES DO THE SAME THING and the left is currently doing the same --> Trump in this instance. But as expected, because you have a complete disdain for Trump, your reply is written with precision to be absolutely certain to justify their (the MSM) behavior towards Trump without acknowledging fault or bias on their part.

The MSM isn't the left. Ask any real lefty----the MSM is "the Man". The center.

I'd argue the same for FoxNation, actually. Only difference is, their viewers didn't notice that FoxNation (Fox, Rush, Hannity, et. al.) changed when Trump took power. They are no longer conservative. They are now Republican as in: "our values are whatever Republican leader Trump says our values are".

They no longer champion small government. They no longer champion free market over government controlled markets (think tariffs). They no longer champion States rights over Federal rights. If they did, they'd be hammering Trump. Obviously they cheer anything and everything Trump does to the point of absurdity. I could list the values FoxViewers have abandoned in two short years until the cows come home.

Conservative America is adrift at sea. The scary part for me is: where will they pull into port?

Seems the MSM is the left, considering they are not airing the National 4th parade in DC.

https://twitter.com/breakingnlive/statu ... 56993?s=21

Nah, they aired the parade until the earthquake took precedence. But they don't plan to air Trump's speech live. Nor can the public get into the area in front of the Lincoln Memorial. That's just for the big donors and other guests of the White House and RNC.

And they covering other parts of the celebrations, fireworks etc, though NYC probably will get most coverage.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yes that is my point in red. I was openly admitting that BOTH SIDES DO THE SAME THING and the left is currently doing the same --> Trump in this instance. But as expected, because you have a complete disdain for Trump, your reply is written with precision to be absolutely certain to justify their (the MSM) behavior towards Trump without acknowledging fault or bias on their part.

The MSM isn't the left. Ask any real lefty----the MSM is "the Man". The center.

I'd argue the same for FoxNation, actually. Only difference is, their viewers didn't notice that FoxNation (Fox, Rush, Hannity, et. al.) changed when Trump took power. They are no longer conservative. They are now Republican as in: "our values are whatever Republican leader Trump says our values are".

They no longer champion small government. They no longer champion free market over government controlled markets (think tariffs). They no longer champion States rights over Federal rights. If they did, they'd be hammering Trump. Obviously they cheer anything and everything Trump does to the point of absurdity. I could list the values FoxViewers have abandoned in two short years until the cows come home.

Conservative America is adrift at sea. The scary part for me is: where will they pull into port?

Seems the MSM is the left, considering they are not airing the National 4th parade in DC.

https://twitter.com/breakingnlive/statu ... 56993?s=21

Twitter?

[Trinity]

Americans celebrate independence today. We celebrate men who pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor. This, today in DC, is not that. Americans are marching proudly all over the country and the cameras are there.

[MDlaxfan76]

He stayed on script, but the script went from pedantic to jingoistic.

Simply inappropriate. There’s a good reason why the service heads took a pass.

Flyovers are always crowd pleasers, though.

One truly weird moment was when he claimed that the Army had taken the airports during the Revolutionary War and/or War of 1812. Huh?

[youthathletics]

Yes that is my point in red. I was openly admitting that BOTH SIDES DO THE SAME THING and the left is currently doing the same --> Trump in this instance. But as expected, because you have a complete disdain for Trump, your reply is written with precision to be absolutely certain to justify their (the MSM) behavior towards Trump without acknowledging fault or bias on their part.

The MSM isn't the left. Ask any real lefty----the MSM is "the Man". The center.

I'd argue the same for FoxNation, actually. Only difference is, their viewers didn't notice that FoxNation (Fox, Rush, Hannity, et. al.) changed when Trump took power. They are no longer conservative. They are now Republican as in: "our values are whatever Republican leader Trump says our values are".

They no longer champion small government. They no longer champion free market over government controlled markets (think tariffs). They no longer champion States rights over Federal rights. If they did, they'd be hammering Trump. Obviously they cheer anything and everything Trump does to the point of absurdity. I could list the values FoxViewers have abandoned in two short years until the cows come home.

Conservative America is adrift at sea. The scary part for me is: where will they pull into port?

Seems the MSM is the left, considering they are not airing the National 4th parade in DC.

https://twitter.com/breakingnlive/statu ... 56993?s=21

Nah, they aired the parade until the earthquake took precedence. But they don't plan to air Trump's speech live. Nor can the public get into the area in front of the Lincoln Memorial. That's just for the big donors and other guests of the White House and RNC.

And they covering other parts of the celebrations, fireworks etc, though NYC probably will get most coverage.

See, even your favorite news source were not accurate. Local NBC here in DC aired his speech unttil 7 pm, when they went to local news.....a 20-30 second piece on the earthquake. You think the goal was discourage us from seeing him?

Seemed quite patriotic, rudimentary, and on point....nothing hurt.

[a fan]

Rob Schneider (yes, that Rob Schneider) won the 4th of July this year.

"If you turn off the news and just talk to your neighbors, you'll find that our great country is far more harmonious than you are being told"

Amen, brother Rob!

I still have a cool hundred bucks that disslaxxic and 6ftstick would get to the "hey, can I get you another beer" point, if they simply hung out at a barbecue for a couple hours.

[old salt]

Simply inappropriate. There’s a good reason why the service heads took a pass.

Yes there was. Long planned leave.

WP Pentagon reporter on PBS Newshour :
The Pentagon ...have said very little this week ...they've been told to let the WH do the talking on this one ...they wanted the element of surprise in the show ...it was all last minute ...over time, it sounds like the Pentagon was on board, especially with the air show side of it... people in uniform are often hesitant to step out in a way that looks partisan. There's a long tradition in the military of trying to avoid politics.

{re. the absence of the Service Chiefs} I wondered if someone was silently protesting. ...It's more logistics. July is a common time to have vacation. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs will be there, ... & looking to get a senior member from each service front & center.

Video clip w/transcript.

This was not a long lead time event. I read earlier in Defense One that some of the Chiefs had long planned for leave this week. It's hard for Service Chiefs to sched leave for family vacations, With July 4th on a Thurs, it was essentially a 3 day work week, with liberal leave. Given all the media scrutiny & second guessing, if 1 or 2 of the Chiefs were going to be on leave, the rest might have passed up the event to squelch rumors of division or dissent & to not scuttle their fellow Chief(s) long planned leave. The SecDef, Chairman & then a Flag rep from each service was plenty of brass in attendance.

MSM frustrated with lack of leaking, so they make up a narrative.

One truly weird moment was when he claimed that the Army had taken the airports during the Revolutionary War and/or War of 1812. Huh?

I hope we see the script that was loaded in the teleprompter. He apparently got lost & winged it.
There was a time warp between Yorktown, 1781 & Ft McHenry, 1814, when the Army rammed the ramparts & took the airports.

The Money Shot = #1 of 20 -- Blue Angels starburst maneuver over the Lincoln Memorial-

[MDlaxfan76]

Simply inappropriate. There’s a good reason why the service heads took a pass.

Yes there was. Long planned leave.

WP Pentagon reporter on PBS Newshour :
The Pentagon ...have said very little this week ...they've been told to let the WH do the talking on this one ...they wanted the element of surprise in the show ...it was all last minute ...over time, it sounds like the Pentagon was on board, especially with the air show side of it... people in uniform are often hesitant to step out in a way that looks partisan. There's a long tradition in the military of trying to avoid politics.

{re. the absence of the Service Chiefs} I wondered if someone was silently protesting. ...It's more logistics. July is a common time to have vacation. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs will be there, ... & looking to get a senior member from each service front & center.

Video clip w/transcript.

This was not a long lead time event. I read earlier in Defense One that some of the Chiefs had long planned for leave this week. It's hard for Service Chiefs to sched leave for family vacations, With July 4th on a Thurs, it was essentially a 3 day work week, with liberal leave. Given all the media scrutiny & second guessing, if 1 or 2 of the Chiefs were going to be on leave, the rest might have passed up the event to squelch rumors of division or dissent & to not scuttle their fellow Chief(s) long planned leave. The SecDef, Chairman & then a Flag rep from each service was plenty of brass in attendance.

MSM frustrated with lack of leaking, so they make up a narrative.

One truly weird moment was when he claimed that the Army had taken the airports during the Revolutionary War and/or War of 1812. Huh?

I hope we see the script that was loaded in the teleprompter. He apparently got lost & winged it.
There was a time warp between Yorktown, 1781 & Ft McHenry, 1814, when the Army rammed the ramparts & took the airports.

The Money Shot = #1 of 20 -- Blue Angels starburst maneuver over the Lincoln Memorial-

So, your explanation is that some of the Chiefs had long planned leave (makes sense), so none showed up...to show solidarity??
Why would some coming have scuttled their fellow Chiefs' leave? Because Trump would have ordered them to cancel their family leaves?
Yikes.

I agree it wasn't a long lead event.
It was horribly planned and poorly executed, expensive and for what real benefit?
New York got it right.
So did thousands of other events all over the country.

Now, the script was indeed 'patriotic', with little present day politics...though a little bit snuck in to those with ears.
And flyovers are always cool.
But militarizing the 4th, and politicians wrapping themselves in the aura of the military, especially on the 4th, very inappropriate.

Pretty sure no airports existed in 1812- Ft. McHenry, not 1814 either.
But yeah, it's likely that script made some sort of actual sense and Trump garbled it somehow. There was a point where it wasn't clear that he was actually reading the words...sounded more gobbledygook, so maybe he got lost and his mind was trying to make sense of it.

[old salt]

Simply inappropriate. There’s a good reason why the service heads took a pass.

Yes there was. Long planned leave.

WP Pentagon reporter on PBS Newshour :
The Pentagon ...have said very little this week ...they've been told to let the WH do the talking on this one ...they wanted the element of surprise in the show ...it was all last minute ...over time, it sounds like the Pentagon was on board, especially with the air show side of it... people in uniform are often hesitant to step out in a way that looks partisan. There's a long tradition in the military of trying to avoid politics.

{re. the absence of the Service Chiefs} I wondered if someone was silently protesting. ...It's more logistics. July is a common time to have vacation. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs will be there, ... & looking to get a senior member from each service front & center.

Video clip w/transcript.

This was not a long lead time event. I read earlier in Defense One that some of the Chiefs had long planned for leave this week. It's hard for Service Chiefs to sched leave for family vacations, With July 4th on a Thurs, it was essentially a 3 day work week, with liberal leave. Given all the media scrutiny & second guessing, if 1 or 2 of the Chiefs were going to be on leave, the rest might have passed up the event to squelch rumors of division or dissent & to not scuttle their fellow Chief(s) long planned leave. The SecDef, Chairman & then a Flag rep from each service was plenty of brass in attendance.

MSM frustrated with lack of leaking, so they make up a narrative.

One truly weird moment was when he claimed that the Army had taken the airports during the Revolutionary War and/or War of 1812. Huh?

I hope we see the script that was loaded in the teleprompter. He apparently got lost & winged it.
There was a time warp between Yorktown, 1781 & Ft McHenry, 1814, when the Army rammed the ramparts & took the airports.

The Money Shot = #1 of 20 -- Blue Angels starburst maneuver over the Lincoln Memorial-

So, your explanation is that some of the Chiefs had long planned leave (makes sense) not mine, the WP reporter on PBS, watch the clip., so none showed up...to show solidarity??
Why would some coming have scuttled their fellow Chiefs' leave? Because Trump would have ordered them to cancel their family leaves?
No. They'd have cancelled their leave themselves, to avoid political controversy.
Yikes. If just some of the Chiefs had shown up, there'd be speculation that the no shows were making a statement. ...as you proved.

I agree it wasn't a long lead event.
It was horribly planned and poorly executed, expensive and for what real benefit?
The fly bys made for spectacular visuals, for millions of eyeballs. DoD justifies them based on how many people see & enjoy them. They do it for numerous sporting events. There's a fly over of some kind for every service academy home FB game. The Blues do (in total) 4 flight demo's at USNA graduation week. The B-2 does the Rose Bowl. Transporting 4 armored vehicles from Ft Stewart GA ? BFD. We ship an entire armored brigade back & forth from Poland every 9 mos. The military units in the ceremony & parade were the DC based ceremonial units who participate every year.

New York got it right.
So did thousands of other events all over the country.
Yep. Too controversial to salute the military in the partisan PC swap of DC.
Better to do it on Vets Day in some warm weather red state location. MacDill AFB in Tampa FL is the HQ of CENTCOM (commanded most of our wars since '91). They already host big air shows when the Blues or T-birds do their entire routine. Lower & longer flight demos by multiple aircraft. Lots of space for static display of several aircraft & vehicles. Navy ship visits, open to the public, in Tampa harbor. Corporate sponsors to pay for a USO show & party for the troops.

Now, the script was indeed 'patriotic', with little present day politics...though a little bit snuck in to those with ears.
And flyovers are always cool.
But militarizing the 4th, and politicians wrapping themselves in the aura of the military, especially on the 4th, very inappropriate.
Trump's initial instinct was to do it on Veterans Day, but DC made it too costly as a stand alone event. Cheaper to piggy back it onto the Capital 4th celebration with existing security already funded.

Pretty sure no airports existed in 1812- Ft. McHenry, not 1814 either.The Battle of Baltimore was in 1814.
But yeah, it's likely that script made some sort of actual sense and Trump garbled it somehow. There was a point where it wasn't clear that he was actually reading the words...sounded more gobbledygook, so maybe he got lost and his mind was trying to make sense of it.

[a fan]

FNC showed the entire ceremony (in HD). Had multi-camera vantages for the fly bys. Too bad you missed it.

Nope. Not only did I watch, and enjoy, part of the parade it on FoxNEWS's streaming coverage (work kept me from seeing all of it...I love parades and marching bands)......I gave you the link to the FoxNEWS livestream, my friend. Look for yourself.

FoxNEWS Channel isn't the same thing as Fox.

Fox---you know, the actual big network in the Fox family? Re-runs. Judge Judy Marathon out here in Denver.

Are you outraged at Fox?

[old salt]

FNC showed the entire ceremony (in HD). Had multi-camera vantages for the fly bys. Too bad you missed it.

Nope. Not only did I watch, and enjoy, part of the parade it on FoxNEWS's streaming coverage (work kept me from seeing all of it...I love parades and marching bands)......I gave you the link to the FoxNEWS livestream, my friend. Look for yourself.

FoxNEWS Channel isn't the same thing as Fox.

Fox---you know, the actual big network in the Fox family? Re-runs. Judge Judy Marathon out here in Denver.

Are you outraged at Fox?

Are you grateful to FNC for being the only commercial network to show the entire ceremony & fly bys.
CNN cut away to a commercial during the Air Force salute, missing the fly bys.
MSNBC ran a rerun of the (D) debates.

It was the usual DC July 4 parade -- a platoon from each of the military service's ceremonial units in the lead, followed by a platoon gaggle of public health service doc's & admins in Navy uniforms trying to march, the DC Mustang club, some floats, HS marching bands & several bizarre dance troups of fat girls in tutu's.

[a fan]

Are you grateful to FNC for being the only commercial network to show the entire ceremony & fly bys.

The weren't the only ones. Again, I gave you the links.

CNN cut away to a commercial during the Air Force salute, missing the fly bys.

That's what TV stations do. No big deal.

MSNBC ran a rerun of the (D) debates.

Yes. And Fox ran a Judge Judy marathon.

Are you going to demand an apology from Fox? No. Of course not. "That's different".

Yes, it was the usual parade----difference being, Trump intentionally looked for attention both by...as you yourself said....not planning it well with his childish "surprise plans", coupled with the tank nonsense to focus attention on Trump, rather than the event. We both know he did it on purpose.

But whatever. I enjoyed what I saw. I love this 4th of July stuff. Always have!

[old salt]

Are you grateful to FNC for being the only commercial network to show the entire ceremony & fly bys.

The weren't the only ones. Again, I gave you the links.
Links to webstreams are not broadcast tv. Did you watch on your computer or big screen HD ?
As I said, FNC was the only commercial network to show the entire ceremony, including extra camera locations to capture the fly bys.
CNN cut away during the AF part & missed the fly bys.
I believe C-Span covered the entire ceremony.

CNN cut away to a commercial during the Air Force salute, missing the fly bys.

That's what TV stations do. No big deal.
Unless you miss the winning TD for Heidi

MSNBC ran a rerun of the (D) debates.

Yes. And Fox ran a Judge Judy marathon.
Apples = Apples
NBC = Fox
MSNBC = FNC

Are you going to demand an apology from Fox? No. Of course not. "That's different".
No. FNC is their live news channel, not entertainment channel.
Fox (via FNC) was the only comml network to make it avail (webcasts don't count).
The other networks devoted hours to criticizing it, before & after, but wouldn't even expose it to their audience, except in clips to disparage Trump.

Yes, it was the usual parade----difference being, Trump intentionally looked for attention both by...as you yourself said....not planning it well with his childish "surprise plans", coupled with the tank nonsense to focus attention on Trump, rather than the event. We both know he did it on purpose.
I give Trump credit for at least trying to honor the troops & their history. The speech included all the right points in their individual histories. The fly overs were the right aircraft, executed to perfection, in challenging weather conditions.The tanks were so the Army wouldn't be left out, compared to all the other services aircraft. Given all the resistance & obstacles, I'm surprised it went as well as it did.

But whatever. I enjoyed what I saw. I love this 4th of July stuff. Always have!

[a fan]

Links to webstreams are not broadcast tv. Did you watch on your computer or big screen HD ?

Computer. At work. How is this bad?

]I give Trump credit for at least trying to honor the troops & their history. The speech included all the right points in their individual histories. The fly overs were the right aircraft, executed to perfection, in challenging weather conditions. Given all the resistance & obstacles, I'm surprised it went as well as it did.

I enjoyed it! If this was supposed to be a the serious honoring of our troops that you hoped in earlier conversations with me, this was a piddling effort at best, and you know it. He mailed it in because he wanted, and got, headlines for "threatening" to put tanks in the parade. This was about Trump, and not the troops. And Trump got what he wanted. The troops? Not so much. Can we not agree to that and move on?

This was about Trump, and you know it. And yep, the criticism was simply because it was Trump, too. You'll get no argument from me about the lefty partisans whining about stupid stuff again.

They can't help themselves in their stupidity. The correct path if you're a lefty partisan is: ignore him. So it's not fair to hit them for not carrying every second of his Trump event...doubly so when they DO cover it well, and plenty of other 4th of July events just fine.

[old salt]

Links to webstreams are not broadcast tv. Did you watch on your computer or big screen HD ?

Computer. At work. How is this bad?
It's limited availability to the wider audience, which you refuse to acknowledge.
The networks (other than Fox, via FNC, & CSPAN} did their best to limit viewership.
PBS didn't even show it, although they showed the rest of the events on the mall (& re-ran them again).

]I give Trump credit for at least trying to honor the troops & their history. The speech included all the right points in their individual histories. The fly overs were the right aircraft, executed to perfection, in challenging weather conditions. Given all the resistance & obstacles, I'm surprised it went as well as it did.

I enjoyed it! If this was supposed to be a the serious honoring of our troops that you hoped in earlier conversations with me, this was a piddling effort at best, and you know it. Look at all the grief he's getting for just this much. He mailed it in because he wanted, and got, headlines for "threatening" to put tanks in the parade. This was about Trump, and not the troops. Read the transcript of the speech, as it was intended to be given. And Trump got what he wanted. The troops? Not so much. Because he couldn't do it right, like GHWB did in '91. No funding, no support, & now the DC streets supposedly can't handle the same M1A1 tanks they did in '91. Can we not agree to that and move on? No. Not until Trump, or some other CinC is able to do it right, like GHWB did in '91. But I thank him for trying.

This was about Trump, and you know it. And yep, the criticism was simply because it was Trump, too. You'll get no argument from me about the lefty partisans whining about stupid stuff again.

They can't help themselves in their stupidity. The correct path if you're a lefty partisan is: ignore him. So it's not fair to hit them for not carrying every second of his Trump event...doubly so when they DO cover it well, and plenty of other 4th of July events just fine.
The left showed their true colors. They care more about hammering Trump than honoring the troops & vets.

[a fan]

No. Not until Trump, or some other CinC is able to do it right, like GHWB did in '91. But I thank him for trying.

Easy solution, and you know it: hold the parade. Bar any elected/retired politicians from attending. Make it about the troops and the people. Problem solved.

But don't give me this wrapping yourself in the flag nonsense. There were thousands of 4th of July parades all over this country, and I'd wager every single one of them had Vets in the parades.

I"m not playing Trump's game of "honor me, or you don't honor the troops" cr*p. You're better than that.

[old salt]

No. Not until Trump, or some other CinC is able to do it right, like GHWB did in '91. But I thank him for trying.

Easy solution, and you know it: hold the parade. Bar any elected/retired politicians from attending. Make it about the troops and the people. Problem solved.

But don't give me this wrapping yourself in the flag nonsense. There were thousands of 4th of July parades all over this country, and I'd wager every single one of them had Vets in the parades.

I"m not playing Trump's game of "honor me, or you don't honor the troops" cr*p. You're better than that.

Vets in hometown parades are fine, but not the same thing as a national celebration of those now serving.
That's what made '91 so special. Did you say you attended it in '91 or was it other protests ?
Was that GHWB honoring himself ? Was this Reagan honoring himself ?