Would BC have at least one national title with a different coach?

[wlaxphan20]

Would you pose the same question about Gary Gait? Particularly from 2012-2016? Or what about the 2016 Terps? Northwestern with Katrina Dowd, Shannon Smith & Danielle Spencer in line to win their SIXTH in a row in 2010?

I don't think you can. Seacoaster hit the nail on the head, there are too many moving parts to be able to definitively point to coaching. As a coach you can prepare your players as best as you can but ultimately they are on the field and you, as the coach, are not. You can make adjustments and substitutions, but you don't have ultimate control over every move your players make, what the other team does, and the calls the officials make.

I feel like people are quick to forget these aren't BC's first stars. Acacia recruited Covie Stanwick, Mikaela Rix, Sarah Mannelly, Caroline Margolis, & Tess Chandler. She and her staff have a knack for recruiting both blue-chip players and "diamonds in the rough". I have no doubt she will have more stars on the way and she'll be back in the championship game in the future.

[Laxfan500]

Agree with last comment. I was taken aback to hear from AWW that 4 years ago BC wasn’t a lacrosse school. Rix a terrific player could have gone anywhere . Played Lax at BC...
BC just wasn’t a top 20 team then but still people knew of the school as a lax school. Both my kids considered BC for academic and lacrosse several years ago. Before the “fab 3” were playing there. Kind of does a disservice to the girls that went there before.

[Turtles Lax]

...IT’S A TEAM SPORT?

Next, Acacia Walker-Weinstein is a long time personal friend of whom TL would NEVER say anything negative. Don’t have to now...but if TL did she would understand.

Championships are won by TEAMS...not individual players. Every great player understands that fact...sad that some fans don’t. Just about every top 20 team has a player (maybe two) who could play anywhere.

The Maryland Terrapins were a great TEAM this season. If you are a fan of women’s lax you would have known that very early in the season.

All said, great teams can be beaten. (They are college kids!) TL is absolutely certain Coach Acacia and her players were certain they would win. So were the Terps, so was Carolina, so was nu.

Only one can win...no participation trophies.

The Terps of ‘16 should have won. But they didn’t. No one said Coach Cathy cannot coach...cannot win.

Boston College had three truly wonderful players... They had a terrific Head Coach.

Gary Gait had some amazing players...just not enough of them. Who’s calling out Gary?

That is all.

Peace, out.

TL

[wlaxnut]

Would you pose the same question about Gary Gait? Particularly from 2012-2016? Or what about the 2016 Terps? Northwestern with Katrina Dowd, Shannon Smith & Danielle Spencer in line to win their SIXTH in a row in 2010?

I don't think you can. Seacoaster hit the nail on the head, there are too many moving parts to be able to definitively point to coaching. As a coach you can prepare your players as best as you can but ultimately they are on the field and you, as the coach, are not. You can make adjustments and substitutions, but you don't have ultimate control over every move your players make, what the other team does, and the calls the officials make.

I feel like people are quick to forget these aren't BC's first stars. Acacia recruited Covie Stanwick, Mikaela Rix, Sarah Mannelly, Caroline Margolis, & Tess Chandler. She and her staff have a knack for recruiting both blue-chip players and "diamonds in the rough". I have no doubt she will have more stars on the way and she'll be back in the championship game in the future.

Unequivocally I ​would pose the same question about Gary ​Gait​ or any of the other people you mentioned. I think it’s a time honored tradition in sports. We do it all the time in other sports – why not women’s lacrosse? It’s just fun to talk about​.​ I find it compelling to ponder. I completely agree about the variables and how many there are. With that in mind, one could say the Eagles were lucky to have ​even ​made it to the championship game this year at all​,​ given the two huge chances the Tar Heels wer​en't​ able to cash in against the Eagles in overtime ​in the semifinal​ – one for ​Ferrucci's​ point blank chance where she shot it right into ​Daly's​ ​upper body​, and the other one ​where Bowe​ clang​ed​ a shot off the inside of the goal post. A couple inches either way and we would’ve had another UNC/Maryland final. To go back to your original question, I have often thought that if ​C​ath​y​ R​eese​ or Jenn​y​ Levy had coached the Kayla ​Treano​r ​Orange, they would have won a title during that span.​ ​

[Badlands]

A related point is if you had asked the question about Gait would so many people have been offended or upset about the question? My guess is no. Why? Because he’s a man — a big, tough man. AWW is a woman (albeit an obviously tough woman), and I’ve observed a paternalistic sentiment that seems to pervade this wlax board. People ask similar questions— in fact just state the same type of question as fact — all the time on the men’s board about male coaches without the same offense taken. I’m not saying we should start being brutally harsh with female coaches and players. I’m just noting what I think is a clear difference in tone and attitude toward men and women in sports.

This is a point I’ve made before, but I’ll continue to make the observation as it occurs to me because I’m intrigued by gender issues in sports.

[wlaxphan20]

Championships are won by TEAMS...not individual players. Every great player understands that fact...sad that some fans don’t. Just about every top 20 team has a player (maybe two) who could play anywhere.

The Maryland Terrapins were a great TEAM this season. If you are a fan of women’s lax you would have known that very early in the season.

All said, great teams can be beaten. (They are college kids!) TL is absolutely certain Coach Acacia and her players were certain they would win. So were the Terps, so was Carolina, so was nu.

Only one can win...no participation trophies.

The Terps of ‘16 should have won. But they didn’t. No one said Coach Cathy cannot coach...cannot win.

Boston College had three truly wonderful players... They had a terrific Head Coach.

Gary Gait had some amazing players...just not enough of them. Who’s calling out Gary?

well put, was trying to get to this point TL! the teams i mentioned all had their stars, and all had some of the greatest coaching minds in the game, and we never questioned them, and because we never questioned them, I don't think we should be questioning AWW either.

but I do think you mean BC HAS a terrific Head Coach TL



Coaches recruit certain players because they feel they will fit in with their system, style of play, team culture, etc. and players commit to certain coaches and programs because they feel that is the best environment for them to grow and thrive as a player. The assumption that a different coach (even one of the greatest) who has had a ton of success with THEIR players in THEIR own system will have the SAME success with players that they (for the most part) did not recruit who are accustomed to playing in a completely different system just doesn't seem right. Just an example, Halle Majorana was a reserve attacker at Maryland for the great Cathy Reese and became a standout star at Syracuse for Gary Gait. She fit into Gait's system better and had more success there. Does that make Cathy a bad coach? Of course not. Does that make Gary better than Cathy? Again, of course not.

Unless there is some kind of Miracle in the Meadowlands or Pete Carroll throwing on 2nd & goal moment I don't think you can blame any of these coaches for hard fought losses against other very talented teams and coaches. And going the opposite way, yeah, the 2016 Cubs won the world series, but Maddon nearly cost them the series TWO separate times! The extreme opposite of good coaching, yet they won anyway. But no one was calling Maddon a great coach after they won!

[DMac]

wlaxnut wrote
I have often thought that if ​C​ath​y​ R​eese​ or Jenn​y​ Levy had coached the Kayla ​Treano​r ​Orange, they would have won a title during that span.​

Because they would have done what differently?

[Badlands]

Unless there is some kind of Miracle in the Meadowlands or Pete Carroll throwing on 2nd & goal moment I don't think you can blame any of these coaches for hard fought losses against other very talented teams and coaches.

This is the point I was trying to make on the previous page. I don't remember any plays in any of the three games where the BC coaching staff made glaring errors, although I did see that on numerous occasions throughout the season from various coaches (and I'm sure I would've made plenty had I been on the sidelines!).

[wlaxnut]

Another relevant way to say this is:

This team deserved better.

[Doid23]

A related point is if you had asked the question about Gait would so many people have been offended or upset about the question? My guess is no. Why? Because he’s a man — a big, tough man. AWW is a woman (albeit an obviously tough woman), and I’ve observed a paternalistic sentiment that seems to pervade this wlax board. People ask similar questions— in fact just state the same type of question as fact — all the time on the men’s board about male coaches without the same offense taken. I’m not saying we should start being brutally harsh with female coaches and players. I’m just noting what I think is a clear difference in tone and attitude toward men and women in sports.

This is a point I’ve made before, but I’ll continue to make the observation as it occurs to me because I’m intrigued by gender issues in sports.

Who on this thread is offended or upset? I think that's your bias, not any posters on this thread.

[Dr. Tact]

Another relevant way to say this is:

This team deserved better.

Been watching (lurking) this thread and you have confused me with the above statement. Who deserved better? BC? Why? Because they were great but didn't win? I can think of many top schools that would kill for a trip to the finals and would take losing as a program positive. No one deserves anything.

Maybe I missed your point...if so, I apologize.

[seacoaster]

A related point is if you had asked the question about Gait would so many people have been offended or upset about the question? My guess is no. Why? Because he’s a man — a big, tough man. AWW is a woman (albeit an obviously tough woman), and I’ve observed a paternalistic sentiment that seems to pervade this wlax board. People ask similar questions— in fact just state the same type of question as fact — all the time on the men’s board about male coaches without the same offense taken. I’m not saying we should start being brutally harsh with female coaches and players. I’m just noting what I think is a clear difference in tone and attitude toward men and women in sports.

This is a point I’ve made before, but I’ll continue to make the observation as it occurs to me because I’m intrigued by gender issues in sports.

Just for the record, I am not offended and gender never entered into my thinking. I think the answer to wlaxnut's question is: can't say, and kinda impossible to say. Same with Gary Gait. Same with all those many, many, many years Jenny Levy had one super-recruiting class after another and still didn't grab the trophy.

[Dr. Tact]

Same with all those many, many, many years Jenny Levy had one super-recruiting class after another and still didn't grab the trophy.

^^this^^

[wlaxnut]

Another relevant way to say this is:

This team deserved better.

Been watching (lurking) this thread and you have confused me with the above statement. Who deserved better? BC? Why? Because they were great but didn't win? I can think of many top schools that would kill for a trip to the finals and would take losing as a program positive. No one deserves anything.

Maybe I missed your point...if so, I apologize.

Yep—you got my point Dr. And I agree with yours to a degree as well. But in the end, I will always feel that this core/team underachieved. I agree—“deserve” isn’t a precise word in this context.

[wlaxnut]

Just for the record, I am not offended and gender never entered into my thinking. I think the answer to wlaxnut's question is: can't say, and kinda impossible to say. Same with Gary Gait. Same with all those many, many, many years Jenny Levy had one super-recruiting class after another and still didn't grab the trophy.
[/quote]

Good points, seacoaster.

[Badlands]

A related point is if you had asked the question about Gait would so many people have been offended or upset about the question? My guess is no. Why? Because he’s a man — a big, tough man. AWW is a woman (albeit an obviously tough woman), and I’ve observed a paternalistic sentiment that seems to pervade this wlax board. People ask similar questions— in fact just state the same type of question as fact — all the time on the men’s board about male coaches without the same offense taken. I’m not saying we should start being brutally harsh with female coaches and players. I’m just noting what I think is a clear difference in tone and attitude toward men and women in sports.

This is a point I’ve made before, but I’ll continue to make the observation as it occurs to me because I’m intrigued by gender issues in sports.

Who on this thread is offended or upset? I think that's your bias, not any posters on this thread.

There was a strong reaction by some to the question that wlaxnut posed. Read the thread.

[wlaxnut]

A related point is if you had asked the question about Gait would so many people have been offended or upset about the question? My guess is no. Why? Because he’s a man — a big, tough man. AWW is a woman (albeit an obviously tough woman), and I’ve observed a paternalistic sentiment that seems to pervade this wlax board. People ask similar questions— in fact just state the same type of question as fact — all the time on the men’s board about male coaches without the same offense taken. I’m not saying we should start being brutally harsh with female coaches and players. I’m just noting what I think is a clear difference in tone and attitude toward men and women in sports.

This is a point I’ve made before, but I’ll continue to make the observation as it occurs to me because I’m intrigued by gender issues in sports.

Who on this thread is offended or upset? I think that's your bias, not any posters on this thread.

There was a strong reaction by some to the question that wlaxfan posed. Read the thread.

*wlaxnut

This is true, Doid23. PLENTY of strong reaction. I concur with Badlands recommendation—and start at the beginning.

[Badlands]

A related point is if you had asked the question about Gait would so many people have been offended or upset about the question? My guess is no. Why? Because he’s a man — a big, tough man. AWW is a woman (albeit an obviously tough woman), and I’ve observed a paternalistic sentiment that seems to pervade this wlax board. People ask similar questions— in fact just state the same type of question as fact — all the time on the men’s board about male coaches without the same offense taken. I’m not saying we should start being brutally harsh with female coaches and players. I’m just noting what I think is a clear difference in tone and attitude toward men and women in sports.

This is a point I’ve made before, but I’ll continue to make the observation as it occurs to me because I’m intrigued by gender issues in sports.

Just for the record, I am not offended and gender never entered into my thinking. I think the answer to wlaxnut's question is: can't say, and kinda impossible to say. Same with Gary Gait. Same with all those many, many, many years Jenny Levy had one super-recruiting class after another and still didn't grab the trophy.

You are probably correct, Seacoaster. I think the question the OP posed is a legit one but the reason nobody seems to be saying Yes to it may just be that there’s no evidence that AWW did anything “wrong” that precluded her teams from winning the title game in each of the last three seasons. Several coaches in different sports banged their heads into the ceiling before finally breaking through. She may too.

[wlaxnut]

Bad decisions in game has been brought up frequently in certain sections of this thread. My question is more at the strategy or system Acacia chose. Maybe it was flawed. Maybe it wasn't a sound game plan against Maryland, or JMU, or UNC on that given day.

[wlaxnut]

wlaxnut wrote
I have often thought that if ​C​ath​y​ R​eese​ or Jenn​y​ Levy had coached the Kayla ​Treano​r ​Orange, they would have won a title during that span.​

Because they would have done what differently?

I don't know--maybe their system would have worked better. Maybe their ability to game plan for a given team was stronger than any of their opponents' ability. Maybe they are better assessors of talent and know how to use their players to their strengths better than the other team.