Haha! The truth is, those ARE very realistic expectations for Loyola. The truth is, Coach Toomey and Co. having exceed them is tremendous!oldjayfan wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:48 pmWait, never mind, thought I stumbled on the Loyola thread by mistakegymman1031 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:08 pm People have talked about Navy's expectations. Here is what I think Navy can do with the right coach:
1. often make the Patriot League Title game
2. make several postseason appearances, either with the automatic bid or as an at-large
3. have multiple Top 100 players in each of their recruiting classes
4. considering the region they are in and their awesome stadium, lead the NCAA in regular season attendance several times
5. make the Patriot League Tournament Semifinals most years
6. get to the NCAA Tournament Quarterfinals multiple times
7. if all goes right, at least one trip to the Final Four, and maybe beyond
Navy 2022
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Re: Navy 2020
Re: Navy 2020
I don’t expect Navy to meet these expectations anytime soon but at least they are the path to follow. And it starts with the new coach and recruiting those Top 100 players to the Yard before they get sidetracked into the BIG, ACC, or the Ivies. Once the recruits are there, then the steps on the path are more realistic.
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Re: Navy 2020
Anthony Gilardi - Stony Brooklaxpere wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:00 pmIn addition to the ones listed above, there are several other examples of D-I programs that hired a first-time HC. Not sure what defines big time, but there are some familiar names.
Joe Alberici - Army
Joe Amplo - Marquette
Joe Breschi - Ohio State
Ben DeLuca - Cornell
Chris Fiefs - UVM
Peter Milliman - Cornell
Shawn Nadelen - Towson
Lars Tiffany - Stony Brook
John Tillman - Harvard
Jon Torpey - High Point
Kevin Warne - Georgetown
Andrew Baxter - Fairfield
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
Re: Navy 2020
At the time of those hires, I would say only Cornell was in the National debate each year.. Granted Towson , OSU and maybe G'town have upped their standing. SBU and Fairfield, ah, no... And, Cornell was in a major budget crunch during both of the aforementioned hires...youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:06 pmAnthony Gilardi - Stony Brooklaxpere wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:00 pmIn addition to the ones listed above, there are several other examples of D-I programs that hired a first-time HC. Not sure what defines big time, but there are some familiar names.
Joe Alberici - Army
Joe Amplo - Marquette
Joe Breschi - Ohio State
Ben DeLuca - Cornell
Chris Fiefs - UVM
Peter Milliman - Cornell
Shawn Nadelen - Towson
Lars Tiffany - Stony Brook
John Tillman - Harvard
Jon Torpey - High Point
Kevin Warne - Georgetown
Andrew Baxter - Fairfield
For example, look where these guys went after their first gigs: Tills - UMD; Lars --UVA; Breschi --UNC; Amplo--Navy(sort of big time ); Torpey--will get a big time job soon if his star stays on the same trajectory. I suppose I feel a "big time" job is a destination job, not a stepping stone. Army is like Navy in that regard--right person makes it a lifetime gig.
Re: Navy 2020
Case in point would be the Holy Cross game. Navy lost by only two ignoring the junk goal near the end. That game should have been a cake walk for Navy even with the former NAPS coach on the enemy sideline. That was a non factor, and Navy sealed their fate in that game by making way too many mistakes. Have no idea what was going on up there in Mass, but the first line didn't deliver and no one else was offered a chance.youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:59 pmThe scorers are there and have been. You can't score when you only shoot with just the starters week in and week out. Look no further than a player like Foster who barely, if ever, saw the field in 2018, then was a bright star in 2019. Another like Spilker can shoot from outside and on the run very well, was on EMO in 2018, then gets bumped to nowhere in 2019.wrote: As always, it will be tough to find scorers,
Many of the players just need the reps and did not get them, which is why I have suggested for the past few years that the practice needed to change.
Plenty of other examples where players, like 7 for one, didn't have enough touches/reps over the course of the season. Total lack of consistency in every phase of the game doomed Navy's season starting with the Princeton game.
Maybe next year will be different? Looking forward to seeing if there is a transformation but it's really time to worry about winning on the field. Not the year to worry about about attendance incentives, like company tailgates/BBQs, because it's a year stacked with away games.
Go Navy Lacrosse v.2020!
Last edited by laxpere on Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.” Vince Lombardi
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are...." John Wooden
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are...." John Wooden
Re: Navy 2020
So how many proven experienced head coaches have been hired by "big time" DI programs?oldjayfan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:27 pm At the time of those hires, I would say only Cornell was in the National debate each year.. Granted Towson , OSU and maybe G'town have upped their standing. SBU and Fairfield, ah, no... And, Cornell was in a major budget crunch during both of the aforementioned hires...
For example, look where these guys went after their first gigs: Tills - UMD; Lars --UVA; Breschi --UNC; Amplo--Navy(sort of big time ); Torpey--will get a big time job soon if his star stays on the same trajectory. I suppose I feel a "big time" job is a destination job, not a stepping stone. Army is like Navy in that regard--right person makes it a lifetime gig.
Tillman's tenure at Harvard was too short so maybe Breschi and Tiffany on your list fit?
Tambroni was proven at Cornell but Penn State isn't "big time".
Any ones that fit?
“The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.” Vince Lombardi
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are...." John Wooden
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are...." John Wooden
Re: Navy 2020
Gotta have some reason to go.laxpere wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:00 pmCase in point would be the Holy Cross game. Navy lost by only two ignoring the junk goal near the end. That game should have been a cake walk for Navy even with with the former NAPS coach on the enemy sideline. He was a non factor and Navy sealed their fate in that game by making way too many mistakes. Have no idea what was going on up there in Mass but the first line didn't deliver and no one else was offered a chance.youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:59 pmThe scorers are there and have been. You can't score when you only shoot with just the starters week in and week out. Look no further than a player like Foster who barely, if ever, saw the field in 2018, then was a bright star in 2019. Another like Spilker can shoot from outside and on the run very well, was on EMO in 2018, then gets bumped to nowhere in 2019.wrote: As always, it will be tough to find scorers,
Many of the players just need the reps and did not get them, which is why I have suggested for the past few years that the practice needed to change.
Plenty of other examples where players, like 7 for one, didn't have enough touches/reps over the course of the season. Total lack of consistency in every phase of the game doomed Navy starting with the Princeton game.
Maybe next year will be different? Looking forward to seeing if there is a transformation but it's really time to worry about winning on the field. Not the year to worry about about attendance incentives, like company tailgates/BBQs, because it's a year stacked with away games.
Go Navy Lacrosse v.2020!
Re: Navy 2020
Don't know where "proven" came into the conversation...it's my opinion that most "destination" jobs hire coaches that are not first timers..And, PSU had the goal to go "big time"...like OSU, not sure about G'town. Towson has been back and forth...laxpere wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:10 pmSo how many proven experienced head coaches have been hired by "big time" DI programs?oldjayfan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:27 pm At the time of those hires, I would say only Cornell was in the National debate each year.. Granted Towson , OSU and maybe G'town have upped their standing. SBU and Fairfield, ah, no... And, Cornell was in a major budget crunch during both of the aforementioned hires...
For example, look where these guys went after their first gigs: Tills - UMD; Lars --UVA; Breschi --UNC; Amplo--Navy(sort of big time ); Torpey--will get a big time job soon if his star stays on the same trajectory. I suppose I feel a "big time" job is a destination job, not a stepping stone. Army is like Navy in that regard--right person makes it a lifetime gig.
Tillman's tenure at Harvard was too short so maybe Breschi and Tiffany on your list fit?
Tambroni was proven at Cornell but Penn State isn't "big time".
Any ones that fit?
Re: Navy 2020
When you're talking about "big time" programs it's inherently a very small sample size, insofar as programs that consistently do well over a long period are least likely to make changes... Maryland has hired just two coaches since 1984. Syracuse has only been coached by three men since the Hoover administration. Notre Dame has had one coaching change in its entire existence as a program.oldjayfan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:27 pmDon't know where "proven" came into the conversation...it's my opinion that most "destination" jobs hire coaches that are not first timers..And, PSU had the goal to go "big time"...like OSU, not sure about G'town. Towson has been back and forth...laxpere wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:10 pmSo how many proven experienced head coaches have been hired by "big time" DI programs?oldjayfan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:27 pm At the time of those hires, I would say only Cornell was in the National debate each year.. Granted Towson , OSU and maybe G'town have upped their standing. SBU and Fairfield, ah, no... And, Cornell was in a major budget crunch during both of the aforementioned hires...
For example, look where these guys went after their first gigs: Tills - UMD; Lars --UVA; Breschi --UNC; Amplo--Navy(sort of big time ); Torpey--will get a big time job soon if his star stays on the same trajectory. I suppose I feel a "big time" job is a destination job, not a stepping stone. Army is like Navy in that regard--right person makes it a lifetime gig.
Tillman's tenure at Harvard was too short so maybe Breschi and Tiffany on your list fit?
Tambroni was proven at Cornell but Penn State isn't "big time".
Any ones that fit?
Within that small sample, you'll find a few "proven experienced head coaches" even beyond the Breschi/Tiffany level. Cottle to Maryland. Danowski to Duke.
As for the flip side, "big time" programs hiring coaches with no previous HC experience, there's a long history of internally promoting assistants who've never run a program -- in some cases who've never coached anywhere else at all. E.g., I don't believe Desko ever left Syracuse as a player or assistant between graduating West Genny and taking over as head. Historically that was the tradition at places like Cuse and Hopkins, and a number of the current top coaches like Toomey and Nadelen were also internally promoted into their first jobs as HC.
If the question's whether "big time" programs ever hire assistants without HC experience from outside, that's more interesting. The obvious example, as noted above, is Petro at Cornell. But who would be next on that list? Highest program in terms of perceived stature at the time to bring in a first-timer? Let's say within the last 25 years, just to keep it somewhat relevant to the present. I dunno. Hofstra was at least hanging around the fringes of the elite at the time they hired Seth Tierney... I'm sure there's probably somebody else I'm forgetting?
Re: Navy 2020
There was doubt Danowski was going to be at Hofstra much longer before Duke opened up. He was having the same kind of problems Seth has.
Bob Scott was HC st Hopkins from the 50s to 1974. Scottie was not a HC prior. He became AD and was replaced by Chic who had not been a HC. 7 title games in a row but developed heart/health issues that forced his retirement. Followed by Zim who resigned a few years later but had not been a HC. Followed by Tony Seaman who had been HC at Penn. then Petro who was HC at Cornell and went a long way towards rebuilding the program.
Desko is a fixture at Cuse. RM was not a head coach before Navy as I recall. Dom was HC at Brown before UVA? Tierney was an assistant before Princeton.
Willie Scroggs was not a HC before UNC
Bob Scott was HC st Hopkins from the 50s to 1974. Scottie was not a HC prior. He became AD and was replaced by Chic who had not been a HC. 7 title games in a row but developed heart/health issues that forced his retirement. Followed by Zim who resigned a few years later but had not been a HC. Followed by Tony Seaman who had been HC at Penn. then Petro who was HC at Cornell and went a long way towards rebuilding the program.
Desko is a fixture at Cuse. RM was not a head coach before Navy as I recall. Dom was HC at Brown before UVA? Tierney was an assistant before Princeton.
Willie Scroggs was not a HC before UNC
Last edited by OCanada on Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Navy 2020
And, 1 year at C.W. Post for Seaman prior to Penn.OCanada wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:18 am There was doubt Danowski was going to be at Hofstra much longer before Duke opened up. He was having the same kind of problems Seth has.
Bob Scott was HC st Hopkins from the 50s to 1974. Scottie was not a HC prior. He became AD and was replaced by Chic who had not been a HC. 7 title games in a row but developed heart/health issues that forced his retirement. Followed by Zim who resigned a few years later but had not been a HC. Followed by Tony Seaman who had been HC at Penn. then Petro who was HC at Cornell and went a long way towards rebuilding the program.
Desko is a fixture at Cuse. RM was not a head coach before Navy as I recall. Dom was HC at Brown before UVA? Tierney was an assistant before Princeton.
Willie Scroggs was not a HC before UNC.
Danowski coached at C.W. Post, also, prior to Hofstra.
Re: Navy 2020
Blame the alumni, re: Danowski at Hofstra.OCanada wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:18 am There was doubt Danowski was going to be at Hofstra much longer before Duke opened up. He was having the same kind of problems Seth has.
Bob Scott was HC st Hopkins from the 50s to 1974. Scottie was not a HC prior. He became AD and was replaced by Chic who had not been a HC. 7 title games in a row but developed heart/health issues that forced his retirement. Followed by Zim who resigned a few years later but had not been a HC. Followed by Tony Seaman who had been HC at Penn. then Petro who was HC at Cornell and went a long way towards rebuilding the program.
Desko is a fixture at Cuse. RM was not a head coach before Navy as I recall. Dom was HC at Brown before UVA? Tierney was an assistant before Princeton.
Willie Scroggs was not a HC before UNC
He had several quarterfinal teams, averaged almost 10 wins a season, but when that excellent 2006 team got upset by UMass, all h377 broke loose.
Re: Navy 2020
Marquette has finalized their coaching staff. New offensive coordinator, not a holdover.
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... vard/54913
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... vard/54913
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Re: Navy 2020
+1 youthathletics. Well stated and exactly correct -- as usual.youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:59 pmThe scorers are there and have been. You can't score when you only shoot with just the starters week in and week out. Look no further than a player like Foster who barely, if ever, saw the field in 2018, then was a bright star in 2019. Another like Spilker can shoot from outside and on the run very well, was on EMO in 2018, then gets bumped to nowhere in 2019.wrote: As always, it will be tough to find scorers,
Many of the players just need the reps and did not get them, which is why I have suggested for the past few years that the practice needed to change.
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Re: Navy 2020
You forgot the forgettable Haus.OCanada wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:18 am There was doubt Danowski was going to be at Hofstra much longer before Duke opened up. He was having the same kind of problems Seth has.
Bob Scott was HC st Hopkins from the 50s to 1974. Scottie was not a HC prior. He became AD and was replaced by Chic who had not been a HC. 7 title games in a row but developed heart/health issues that forced his retirement. Followed by Zim who resigned a few years later but had not been a HC. Followed by Tony Seaman who had been HC at Penn. then Petro who was HC at Cornell and went a long way towards rebuilding the program.
Desko is a fixture at Cuse. RM was not a head coach before Navy as I recall. Dom was HC at Brown before UVA? Tierney was an assistant before Princeton.
Willie Scroggs was not a HC before UNC
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Re: Navy 2020
Is Reef Points the definitive guide to all the best fishing spots along the Severn & Chesapeake?WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:18 amMan, looks like he’s been reading Reef Points already.laxxygilmore wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:10 pmAgreed, "T". Refreshing to know and be encouraged about on so many levels for the MLax Mids. Especially these key comments from Coach Amplo...Tecumseh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:09 amInteresting read:SonnySide wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:02 pm Does anyone have any intel on who Amplo might hire? You figure he has to hire at least 1 guy soon since recruiting is in full swing. His top assistant has to be an O guy and good recruiter I would think.
Some awesome names have been mentioned. Maybe he can convince Phipps to come back?
I also want to reiterate how great of a man Coach Wellner was and respected by all.
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... gage/54828
Fore
"T"
…yup, additional indications that Coach Amplo gets it already. Refreshing and encouraging indeed.https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... gage/54828
“My biggest thing is the relationships. I can’t let my first 30 days here go by without being engaged with as many people as possible. I want to be involved from a relationship standpoint with anyone who can touch this program,” Amplo said.
“The opportunity to work at the world’s best leadership institution, that personally and professionally is an unbelievable honor and a privilege. The personal and professional growth — what an opportunity."
“From a lacrosse standpoint, it has one of the most long-standing traditions in our sport, and a rich alumni network that is supportive, excited, and the institution supports it at the highest level. You’re given every resource necessary to compete. You’ve got the support of a fanbase. You’ve got the support of alums. The potential for the team to compete at the highest level of our sport is there,” he said. “And oh by the way. Everyone that you coach is going to go on to do great things in the world. To me, it’s the complete package.”
“Listen about their experience and learn what I need to learn. Talk to the players on my team and hear about their day. Understand the challenges, but accept them. Every institution’s got challenges… I can’t make it a deterrent to who we are as a team. I have to make it part of who we are. The biggest thing is learning about it and understanding how I’m going to fit a process into play where that’s part of it,” he said.
“This is a unique challenge, and there are young men that don’t want this opportunity, and they’re right off the board. There are young men who are off the board right away at every institution, whether it's an academic, geographical or competitive reason. There are kids that most institutions can’t recruit,” he said. “For ours, the military is the clearinghouse. To the extent that students may be interested even a little bit, the sooner they learn the opportunities with the military and then beyond the service are as good or better than most institutions in our sport, kids are going to become even more excited.”
Or did he find an unused copy in his new desk?
Truly encouraging for the MLax Mids and their families to experience Coach Amplo's authenticity, confidence and competence in establishing open lines of communication with the full Navy MLax Family that spans the past decades to the present...Coach Amplo is walking the walk of Navy Lacrosse. Fall ball 2019 will be here before we know it - a lot to look forward to with Coach Amplo, his staff and their Mids.
Re: Navy 2020
LSN has an interview with Amplo