Our Undeclared Wars

[runrussellrun]

So, all our expensive "toys' are protecting private companies products and the ships that move them, but we can't use our DEFENSE to DEFEND our own borders? Besides the obvious graft & payouts that big oil writes off as "donations" that that 501c3 NON-profit to our lowly approval rated US Congress, are the big oil world killers (co2) PAYING for our military protectionisms?

I want a military drone to cover my shipment of green after the harvest this fall. Who do I call ? Beto O'roucke, or did he sell his climate change causing stocks yet

Northup-Martin can shift focus on OUR infrastructure and get its welfare for making mag-lev trains and building 200 state of the art NUKE facilities. Guess it's best to continue building "mission ready/capable" crap, coupled with the branches NOT communicating with each other. What changes have been made to protect US citizens after the horrible performance on 9/11/2001?

none.....exactly. Boing boing (boeing ) stock is up though

[a fan]

And Iran has had no responsibility what so ever?! I love it a fan! You're the one who is insane!

Who's building strawmen again? I never wrote that. Of course Iran has a hand in all this. What I wrote was the Trump's pull out would lead to Iran changing its behavior. Which is exactly what happened. Downed drone is the result.

What you don't get is that you've got guys exactly like you in Iran. Hardliners. People who think everything is America's fault, and that war is "inevitable". It would never occur to you that Iran, just like America, has guys like me who just want to live their lives, and who are smart enough to understand that nothing is inevitable, and we need to stop listening to the guys who think war is inevitable.

But here's the great news for you: you win. Guys like you who think war is inevitable are currently leading both Iran and America. So guess what they will do? That's right. Make decisions that give them "no choice" but to go to war. So they pull out of peace deals. And shoot down drones. Way to go.

Trump is taking the path you want. Now we have no deal. So in your quest to throw out imperfect inspections, now we have NO inspections at all. Great job, and a brilliant choice on your part. Enjoy your win.

We'll talk later when Iran gets that bomb. I'm sure by then you'll have a plan, right? And I'm sure Trump will, too.

[runrussellrun]

Oh yeah, this is going to go brilliantly.

Headline: President Donald Trump in an announcement Monday said the US was imposing sanctions on Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini — who has been dead since 1989.


Headline: After the sanctions against Khamenei were announced, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said the Trump White House had "mental retardation."


Come on boys. Tell us how awesome this "strategy" is. Dazzle us with buffalo bagels.




https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-a ... RXN3BnAyPg

Man......how you have fallen. Just sad. So many other things to bash him on, but miss pronouncing a name so very similar........like being a Navy Corpse-man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1DO388jsf8

The name was spelled correctly in the EO text body, yes?

[jhu72]

Meanwhile, the Prince of New York has a plan:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ast-227209

"Putting economics first, before a political process, is more than a tactical error, yet another in a long line of failed attempts to advance towards a permanent two-state solution. The Trump administration’s focus on economics—led by Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner—is a strategic mistake that could stymie the negotiations before they begin. If Trump and his team studied history, they would know that placing economics before core political issues is a slap in the face to the Palestinians. Of course, the Palestinians want to improve their quality of life; of course they want to build a growing economy. But these are secondary goals, to be pursued after self-determination is achieved. If the Palestinians could be “bought” with economic benefits, we would be long past the need for talks. Trump’s approach is not only immoral, it is impractical. -- Palestinians were calling it a bribe within an hour of the plan being presented. -- Trumps and Kushners, its all about the dollars.

The truth is that economics were never enough to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Paris Agreement, which followed the Oslo Accords—a set of agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization signed in the 1990s that were never implemented to the letter—focused on economics, and it did not salvage the deterioration of the security situation that resulted in the second intifada, a bloody 4-year Palestinian revolt against Israel’s occupation of the West Bank. Neither the first nor the second intifadas broke out for economic reasons (the Palestinian economy was not faring badly, relatively speaking). They erupted because the way forward was unclear, and because the Palestinians felt that the economic benefits offered would not lead to the end of the occupation. High hopes for trust-building had been dashed against the absence of a political plan to end the conflict. This void nurtured despair and disappointment, leading to angry uprisings that cost many lives on both sides.

That is the very real danger we are facing again. By putting economics first while ignoring the end game, Trump is repeating a colossal mistake: resuming talks without defining the end goal. For both Palestinians and Israelis, that goal should be ending the occupation and establishing a Palestinian state alongside Israel within 1967 borders, with necessary land swaps. Unless both parties and the mediating power state this clearly at the outset, the expectations gap will breed mistrust. Thus, sitting down together will be futile. This will lead to further disillusionment—and escalating violence. Unless the goal of the talks is explicitly defined as ending the conflict and establishing a Palestinian state, more lives will be lost."

[a fan]

Man......how you have fallen. Just sad. So many other things to bash him on, but miss pronouncing a name so very similar........like being a Navy Corpse-man

Buffalo bagels. You think that this is the same thing as a simple mispronunciation?

Trump has been office for 2 1/2 years. What does it tell you if Trump doesn't know his name?

Take your time, and think: why doesn't Trump know his name?


You'll get it. Just think for a second, and stop with the kneejerk TDS nonsense.

[old salt]

Oh yeah, this is going to go brilliantly.

Headline: President Donald Trump in an announcement Monday said the US was imposing sanctions on Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini — who has been dead since 1989.


Headline: After the sanctions against Khamenei were announced, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said the Trump White House had "mental retardation."


Come on boys. Tell us how awesome this "strategy" is. Dazzle us with buffalo bagels.


https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-a ... RXN3BnAyPg

Fake news. This post implies it was a printed statement. It was a mis-pronounced name.

[jhu72]

Oh yeah, this is going to go brilliantly.

Headline: President Donald Trump in an announcement Monday said the US was imposing sanctions on Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini — who has been dead since 1989.


Headline: After the sanctions against Khamenei were announced, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said the Trump White House had "mental retardation."


Come on boys. Tell us how awesome this "strategy" is. Dazzle us with buffalo bagels.




https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-a ... RXN3BnAyPg

... and people claim the Iranians don't have a sense of humor.

[old salt]

Trump meant this.

[runrussellrun]

Man......how you have fallen. Just sad. So many other things to bash him on, but miss pronouncing a name so very similar........like being a Navy Corpse-man

Buffalo bagels. You think that this is the same thing as a simple mispronunciation?

Trump has been office for 2 1/2 years. What does it tell you if Trump doesn't know his name?

Take your time, and think: why doesn't Trump know his name?


You'll get it. Just think for a second, and stop with the kneejerk TDS nonsense.

Difference of an O and an A........um....ok

Pronounced very similar to what tRump pronounced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABKz2wJyDaU

[a fan]

Right over your head. So sad.

I don't care that he mispronounced a name.

I'm upset that we're on the brink of war, and Trump hasn't spoken with the man enough times to have his name down cold without having to think about it.

Get it? 2 1/2 years, and they don't know each other at all. If you don't understand why that's a dangerous thing, I don't know what to tell you.

[MDlaxfan76]

This discussion has again revealed the cult.

Ignore all intelligence.
Deep State.
Obama hates America. He's a Muslim!
Fake News.

I exaggerate of course, but these themes underlie the right wing posts on this topic.

This has been an incredibly dumb argument (LandM, I think your questions were sincere), but the rest of the Trumpist baloney has been all-in cultish.

Any reasonable discussion would recognize that the situation of Iran is immensely problematic, faced by President after President, and the drum beat for war had ratcheted up from the right and from Israel about the imminence of Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon and the likely nuclear proliferation across the ME starting in Saudi Arabia. It was a very difficult situation, as the Obama administration recognized that military conflict with Iran would have enormous blowback. So, they cut a deal. One that can be easily criticized as incomplete, imperfect, but a deal nevertheless that provided a window for further progress toward bringing Iran into international normalized relations, economic interdependencies, etc. It was partially working as Iran did suspend its nuclear weapons program and moderates gained in power within Iranian politics. Way better than the most likely alternative course Iran was on. But at the same time the hard liners continued to be involved across the ME in the inter-muslim conflicts.

Enter the stupidity and corruption of the Trump administration, kowtowing to the royal of family of Saudi Arabia while making a show of alliance with the hardliners in Israel. Hate Obama? We'll unwind anything and everything Obama worked on during his tenure.

On a personal level MD... I have no trust in the present leadership in Iran. When hear and read repeatedly shouts of death to America... death to Israel it makes me wonder what the fanatical religious wing in Iran hopes to accomplish. Inflammatory hate filled rhetoric is not how 2 countries build mutual trust and respect for each other. The actions of the powers that be in Iran over the past 30 plus years have not proven otherwise. They were responsible for the manufacture and distribution of many of the IEDs that killed and maimed so many members of our military. They are most likely responsible for the ever increasing numbers and sophistication of the rockets finding their way in to Gaza. They are the main support network of an increasingly more aggressive network of terrorist groups. IMO when they dial it back then there will be room for discussion. Repeated calls for death to America/ Israel sure is not a very productive way to start a conversation.

Absolutely fair critique (at least IMO) of the Iranian hardliners.
There's a ton to not like, much less trust, about the Iranian regime.
You won't get any argument on that point from me.

So...what to do?
Go to war?
Bomb'em into the Stone Age?
Total "obliteration"?

Good luck with that course. Huge blowback.

Obama took a different course than his predecessors, as I said in the face of a heavy drum beat for war from the GOP hawks in control of Congress and from the hawks in Israel, as well as the Saudis. The intelligence from all sources indicated that the Iranians were months, no loner years, from a nuclear weapon. They'd ratcheted up sanctions and were at a key pivot point as the Iranians were clearly not going to stop their nuclear program just because of sanctions. But for relief of sanctions and the release of their own funds that had been frozen for decades, the moderates in Iran were willing to negotiate. So, we cut a deal. It was working, as far as it went.

[old salt]

Right over your head. So sad.

I don't care that he mispronounced a name.

I'm upset that we're on the brink of war, and Trump hasn't spoken with the man enough times to have his name down cold without having to think about it.

Get it? 2 1/2 years, and they don't know each other at all. If you don't understand why that's a dangerous thing, I don't know what to tell you.

The Supreme Moolah refuses to talk to Trump, other than to say "Death to America".

Trump's offering to help him Make Iran Great Again. He won't take the call.

[jhu72]

Imagine that.

[jhu72]

Right over your head. So sad.

I don't care that he mispronounced a name.

I'm upset that we're on the brink of war, and Trump hasn't spoken with the man enough times to have his name down cold without having to think about it.

Get it? 2 1/2 years, and they don't know each other at all. If you don't understand why that's a dangerous thing, I don't know what to tell you.

The Supreme Moolah refuses to talk to Trump, other than to say "Death to America".

Trump's offering to help him Make Iran Great Again. He won't take the call.

- right. "I am going to sanction your country out of existence, we'll talk in a year." If Trump wanted to talk, he should have done it before breaking the nuclear deal.

[old salt]

Imagine that.

Iran said the drone initially operated in stealth mode immediately after takeoff from it's base in the SW of the UAE.
That's being interpreted as meaning the US controllers did not immediately turn on the drone's IFF transponder.

The RQ-4 is not a "stealthy" aircraft. It is a large radar target, with limited mobility, designed to operate at very high altitudes, well above civilian air traffic. The Naval version has stronger wings which allow it to rapidly descend to get closer imagery of a target, if necessary.

There are multiple nation's civil air traffic control facilities in the area which should have radar tapes which would include the drones flight path.
Russia would not be one of them.

Maybe we'll get a "show & tell" at the NATO conf or G-20, after showing it to potential convoy coalition partners.

[a fan]

The Supreme Moolah refuses to talk to Trump, other than to say "Death to America".

Part of his job is to get him to talk.

Obama did it. Surely Trump can, too.

[cradleandshoot]

A quick timeout here. A very emotional for this old soldier ceremony going on in the rose garden. Staff Sgt. David Bellavia is being awarded his Medal of Honor for his heroism during the second battle of Fallujah. You want to see a real hero... look up his MOH citation. Thank you Staff... you did what you had to do to save your squad members. I am proud again to have been a US Army infantryman. Staff... I salute you.

[old salt]

The Supreme Moolah refuses to talk to Trump, other than to say "Death to America".

Part of his job is to get him to talk.

Obama did it. Surely Trump can, too.

Did the guy in the tan suit (I refuse to post his name) ever meet with or speak directly with Khamenei ?
...or just tweet love.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/02/ ... mance.html

[jhu72]

Imagine that.

Iran said the drone initially operated in stealth mode immediately after takeoff from it's base in the SW of the UAE.
That's being interpreted as meaning the US controllers did not immediately turn on the drone's IFF transponder.

The RQ-4 is not a "stealthy" aircraft. It is a large radar target, with limited mobility, designed to operate at very high altitudes, well above civilian air traffic. The Naval version has stronger wings which allow it to rapidly descend to get closer imagery of a target, if necessary.

There are multiple nation's civil air traffic control facilities in the area which should have radar tapes which would include the drones flight path.
Russia would not be one of them.

Maybe we'll get a "show & tell" at the NATO conf or G-20, after showing it to potential convoy coalition partners.

I don't necessarily believe the Russians or the Iranians or the Americans. I have said it before, from the stand point of how this plays out in the future it really doesn't matter. What I find interesting is the Russians sticking their nose in!

[old salt]

Imagine that.

Iran said the drone initially operated in stealth mode immediately after takeoff from it's base in the SW of the UAE.
That's being interpreted as meaning the US controllers did not immediately turn on the drone's IFF transponder.

The RQ-4 is not a "stealthy" aircraft. It is a large radar target, with limited mobility, designed to operate at very high altitudes, well above civilian air traffic. The Naval version has stronger wings which allow it to rapidly descend to get closer imagery of a target, if necessary.

There are multiple nation's civil air traffic control facilities in the area which should have radar tapes which would include the drones flight path.
Russia would not be one of them.

Maybe we'll get a "show & tell" at the NATO conf or G-20, after showing it to potential convoy coalition partners.

I don't necessarily believe the Russians or the Iranians or the Americans. I have said it before, from the stand point of how this plays out in the future it really doesn't matter. What I find interesting is the Russians sticking their nose in!

It matters greatly in gathering support from other nations.