Tweak the College Rules

[AreaLax]

Believe the new premium league alter the setup by placing the ball btw the top of the heads. Also if the FoGo fouls then they have to sit out the next FO. Theses are rules the FO guys designed for their game. I do like the one if they foul they can’t do the next FO. Haven’t seen the game so can’t tell if the difference position is helping get the ball out for play.

[shaadb-man]

I havent understood why if the scrum of the face off is the biggest problem why havent they moved to the box face-off where the sticks are together and the ball in between and just pull? Much like the womens draw but on the ground.

If the scrum or one person being too dominant (as heard during the tournament) is the biggest issues this immediately solves both.

[45wewantmore]

Leave the rules alone, allow officials, players & coaches to adapt and settle in to them.
- Shot Clock = positive
- Dive Rule = positive (officials need time to recognize at the margins)
- Face Off = positive TD Ierlan is gifted and has worked hard at the technicalities of his craft

High scoring exciting games in the play-offs
talking heads started conspiracy in semi-final as Yale and TD put on a clinic in 1st Q
PSU got stage fright then recovered Q2-Q4

"hey teacher... leave them kids alone"

[raddadsofficial]

I don't remember much controversy around the faceoff until committees started constantly tweaking the rules a decade ago. Why not put the ball down, allow the players to line up in a timely manner, and use a standardized cadence? Seems like an obvious solution to ensure even competition. Force players to stay on their feet if speed is an issue, it will substantially cut down on scrum time. If specialization is really a concern, why not go all the way - get rid of keepers and replace the goals with hoops. Lacrosse has plenty of unique charm as-is, changing the game arbitrarily to attract hypothetical new fans seems misguided.

[NElaxtalent]

To those not wanting FO rule changes, keep in mind the moto-grip and plastic-tong heads "changed" the way the game was being played. Undo those and no rule changes would be in discussion.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Leave the rules alone, allow officials, players & coaches to adapt and settle in to them.
- Shot Clock = positive
- Dive Rule = positive (officials need time to recognize at the margins)
- Face Off = positive TD Ierlan is gifted and has worked hard at the technicalities of his craft

High scoring exciting games in the play-offs
talking heads started conspiracy in semi-final as Yale and TD put on a clinic in 1st Q
PSU got stage fright then recovered Q2-Q4

"hey teacher... leave them kids alone"

What is positive about the dive rule? Did you graduate from college pre 2000 or post 2000?

[RumorMill]

Not surprising, I'm confused at all the "hate" for the current face-off rules... and that's of course because I actually like the current face-off rules and enjoy watching the competition and the outcome. The rules are exactly the same for both teams and FOGO's after all, so really "we're" discriminating against individual and team talent (I say team as well, because the wingers play a huge role as do the coaches for developing some face-off strategy). All the players pretty much have access to the same equipment (sponsorship restrictions aside... but most can work around those as well if needed)... so again the haters and complainers are critical of individual talent? No doubt the face-off can help determine the outcome of the game, but as said before it's not the overall determining factor. I enjoy watching TD and appreciate his dedication to the position. Those that have worked to understand the nuances of the current Face-off position understand what we're talking about. It's not simply winning the clamp, it's about reading the game (the wing positioning, etc). The way a fogo exits the faceoff is arguably as important as winning the clamp... look at how many faceoffs are won by the wingers who's fogo didn't win the clamp.

I know Can Opener posted links to some individual stats, so just to analyze those a bit. Gallagher took TD to 50% or better and is ranked 12th on the list? Woodall is second with .742 win pct. Towson lost to Cornell, Woodall was 22 of 26, Lost to Duke going 19 of 24, etc... So is it just the face-off win, or is it the whole team effort?

Just another opinion as always... and that being said, I was very skeptical of the Shot Clock when they announced it and now love it!

[palaxoff]

I enjoy a quick face off, admire the athletic ability, and the skill these players have developed. The way the ball is handled after a score making it available to either side make lacrosse and hockey a unique thing. I don't enjoy watching a wrestling match. They added the shot clock to speed up the game why slow it down.

Some tweaks.
Ref blows whistle flips his 20 second timer on, if ball isn't out in 20 seconds give the ball based on AP.
No specialized face off sticks, get rid of the flexibility in a head.
Wait much longer on face off whistle to prevent that little jump.

IMHO the face off back lash, comes down to specialization, a person playing less then 5% of the game shouldn't have that much of an impact on game.

Also I'm guessing all those participation trophies and juice boxes after the game, people think you have to share the ball.

[sguy9]

IMHO the face off back lash, comes down to specialization, a person playing less then 5% of the game shouldn't have that much of an impact on game.

The kicker in football....

[oldjayfan]

I enjoy a quick face off, admire the athletic ability, and the skill these players have developed. The way the ball is handled after a score making it available to either side make lacrosse and hockey a unique thing. I don't enjoy watching a wrestling match. They added the shot clock to speed up the game why slow it down.

Some tweaks.
Ref blows whistle flips his 20 second timer on, if ball isn't out in 20 seconds give the ball based on AP.
No specialized face off sticks, get rid of the flexibility in a head.
Wait much longer on face off whistle to prevent that little jump.

IMHO the face off back lash, comes down to specialization, a person playing less then 5% of the game shouldn't have that much of an impact on game.

Also I'm guessing all those participation trophies and juice boxes after the game, people think you have to share the ball.

My only complaint is the "back of the stick"...why the back of the stick? Stick isn't designed to be played with in that manner...

[NElaxtalent]

IMHO the face off back lash, comes down to specialization, a person playing less then 5% of the game shouldn't have that much of an impact on game.

The kicker in football....

Bingo²

[Typical Lax Dad]

I enjoy a quick face off, admire the athletic ability, and the skill these players have developed. The way the ball is handled after a score making it available to either side make lacrosse and hockey a unique thing. I don't enjoy watching a wrestling match. They added the shot clock to speed up the game why slow it down.

Some tweaks.
Ref blows whistle flips his 20 second timer on, if ball isn't out in 20 seconds give the ball based on AP.
No specialized face off sticks, get rid of the flexibility in a head.
Wait much longer on face off whistle to prevent that little jump.

IMHO the face off back lash, comes down to specialization, a person playing less then 5% of the game shouldn't have that much of an impact on game.

Also I'm guessing all those participation trophies and juice boxes after the game, people think you have to share the ball.

So you like the shot clock that forces a change in possession? If you don't like a team holding the ball for long possessions, go get the ball......otherwise, lets give the other team a chance.

[seriously?]

Don't think you can ever compare it to the women's game. If you have a 6'2" woman you will win the draws. So should they have to be the same height? Talent is talent. This will all die down when TD graduates.

[RumorMill]

Don't think you can ever compare it to the women's game. If you have a 6'2" woman you will win the draws. So should they have to be the same height? Talent is talent. This will all die down when TD graduates.

Agree, and tried to make a similar argument/point on another thread. Essentially stating that whatever the face-off rules are changed to, coaches are going to find players that can "specialize" in whatever that is... and players will start "specializing" in whatever that is as well. For those that are arguing the face off player should have to stay on the field, I don't have a problem with that. I also don't think it would change the current face off specialists one bit. I bet TD, Woodall, Gallagher, etc, would love to stay on the field and play. To the point being argued, they're only "getting off" the field because the coach has someone else who's "better" at being an attacking midfielder (or defensive midfielder) that they want to substitute... with that being said should we get rid of LSM's and SSDM's? And yes, because the current face off heads aren't exactly optimal for passing and shooting quickly and under pressure.

I don't know if it will die down when TD graduates. It might only because we're going to see more equality at the face-off position thanks to Baptiste, TD and even Gurenlian. We'll see coaches putting more emphasis on training their current "FOGO's" and recruiting better ones. Likewise we'll see an influx of younger players focusing on the face-off position, therefore giving college coaches a larger player pool of "very good" face-off specialists to recruit from... eventually evening things out across the top 20 D1 programs... but that's probably 5-10 years down the road... and maybe some rule changes along the way.

[wgdsr]

where is the "hate" and the "backlash", exactly?
have a host of coaches come out condemning the faceoff all of a sudden?

[laxpert]

IMHO the face off back lash, comes down to specialization, a person playing less then 5% of the game shouldn't have that much of an impact on game.

The kicker in football....

Imagine if a kicker could successfully execute an onside kick 75% of the time.. The face off debate goes back to the 70's and the failed 1979 face off elimination experiment. Some forum members may remember face offs anyplace on the field when possession could not be determined which was replaced by Alternate Possession or when body checks were allowed on the FOGO's replaced by sanity. Palaxoffs post on optics of the dominate FOGO is spot on. Not every Face Off win results in an offensive possession or a shot on goal, however there are examples at DI,DII,DIII, High School etc. where a team wins over 90 percent of the draws and out shoots their opponent 3 to 1. Probably one of the reasons basketball changed the jump ball rule in 1930's.

How about an automatic stick check anytime a FOGO scores? I know it violates one those unwritten rules but who thought sticks could be contorted to the point that they're out of spec after a scrum at the dot. There's a reason that FOGO's grab that softball as soon as the exit the field.

[xxxxxxx]

No sport changes rules like lacrosse, can we please just leave the game alone for a while?

[hens62]

Imagine - team that gets scored on has to clear every time. How exciting is riding, the ten man ride? Did no one watch UVA this year? Turnovers at mid field, big hits, GB scrums. All around athletes making plays in open field. Deeper benches with real, two way athletes playing.. why not?? Cause we dont want to hurt Gurenlians feelings on twitter?

Coach a team at the youth level without a FOGO and tell me you still want the face off.. dumbest thing in lacrosse

[DMac]

Talk with every team that has been able to come from behind to win games because of the make it take it beauty the face off brings to lacrosse. Comparing the face off in D1 lax to youth lacrosse is like comparing a house cat to a lion, there's a pretty big difference there. As has been noted by many, just leave the face off alone, all is well in the world of college lacrosse.

[hens62]

Talk with every team that has been able to come from behind to win games because of the make it take it beauty the face off brings to lacrosse. Comparing the face off in D1 lax to youth lacrosse is like comparing a house cat to a lion, there's a pretty big difference there. As has been noted by many, just leave the face off alone, all is well in the world of college lacrosse.

If you remove the FO at youth.. dont really see it staying in college. Doesnt really make sense...

A sport thats #1 priority is national growth should be dictated by what the youth level needs. Everyone saying all is well as if we didnt JUST add the shot clock for a massive improvement