Our Undeclared Wars

[wahoomurf]

From Jamie McIntyre's Daily on Defense :
CNN, NBC, the Washington Post, and the New York Times have all quoted sources saying that overhead imagery shows missiles loaded onto small boats in the Persian Gulf by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and orders from Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, sanction attacks on U.S. forces and diplomatic facilities by proxy forces.

Exactly what to make of the intelligence is “a subject of fierce debate among the White House, the Pentagon, the C.I.A. and America’s allies,” said the Times, while the Post quotes sources saying Trump is “frustrated with some of his top advisers, who he thinks could rush the United States into a military confrontation with Iran and shatter his long-standing pledge to withdraw from costly foreign wars.”

NO INFIGHTING: President Trump disputed the accounts of discord among his advisers and said he alone calls the shots.

“The Fake News Washington Post, and even more Fake News New York Times, are writing stories that there is infighting with respect to my strong policy in the Middle East. There is no infighting whatsoever,” wrote Trump in a pair of tweets. “Different opinions are expressed and I make a decisive and final decision — it is a very simple process. All sides, views, and policies are covered. I'm sure that Iran will want to talk soon.”

Even Andrea Mitchell is satisfied with the intel. She heard it from a "trusted source" in the State Dept.

Stephen "Big Dog" Miller,barking (a gerund switch as Miller can't read) the riot act to "Lil' Dog" Bolton.Wait until Pompeo genuflects before Miller and gets HIS TAIL UN WAGGED.

Do what I say.jpg (22.18 KiB) Viewed 2156 times

[old salt]

White House reviews military plans against Iran -- including sending as many as 120,000 troops to the Middle East -- in echoes of Iraq war

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/worl ... -iran.html

In 2002, before the US invaded Iraq, as the administration beat the drums and our politicians and the press marched along, it all seemed too dumb to be real. This war would be pointless, and kill thousands. Seeing these headlines about Iran now, it's too dumb to be real, right?

Yep. Taking advantage of an aircraft carrier (USS Lincoln) passing through the region as it does an around the world cruise to change home port from E to W coast. Also, increasing the overlap of forward deployed forces already sched to rotate in & out. Patriot batteries to defend against Iranian short range ballistic missiles. Primarily air & naval forces for defense & deterrence, or for a limited counterstrike, as reprisal for IRGC or proxy provocation.
Does not look like forces for an invasion or heavy ground war.
It depends on what Iran, IRGC or proxies do.
Maybe another limited "tanker war", spiking oil prices.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... an-threats
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... ed-by-iran

Since a lively discussion of Persian Gulf oil was just taking place in another thread, here's some content from a May 30 article behind the WSJ paywall which is helpful in understanding Tanker War II, which we are seeing develop. It's the best order of battle I've seen. Note the distinction between the IRGC Naval Forces & Iran's regular Navy :

https://www.wsj.com/articles/irans-fast ... 1559208602

A U.S. conclusion that Iran was behind recent strikes on oil tankers has reignited concern about Iran’s ability to wage guerrilla warfare in one of the world’s most vital waterways.

The U.S. believes Iran used mines to strike four tankers in the Gulf of Oman this month, White House national security adviser John Bolton said Wednesday, without providing more details. Iran called Mr. Bolton’s allegations “laughable.” Both sides say they don’t want war.

In response to U.S. efforts to halt Iranian oil exports, Iran has repeatedly threatened to close the Strait of Hormuz, which connects the Gulf of Oman to the Persian Gulf. One-third of the world’s oil and liquefied natural gas is transported through the strait, and its closure would interrupt global energy supply and could trigger a naval conflict.

Iran has a conventional navy, but it is the parallel navy of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps that makes waters off Iran potentially treacherous. The paramilitary force is equipped to swarm hostile vessels with fast boats armed with torpedoes and short-range missiles and small patrol craft equipped with machine guns and rocket launchers. It can mine the strait and traverse it with aircraft.

Such tactics, which Iran has honed for decades, seek to tilt the scales in favor of a combatant that is nimble and willing to absorb losses.
“Each individual vessel is expendable and constitutes only a fraction of IRGCN combat power,” said James Holmes, the J.C. Wylie Chair of Maritime Strategy at the Naval War College, referring to the Revolutionary Guard’s navy. “Losing one makes little difference, but each one punches above its weight.”

The confined waters of the Strait of Hormuz, which narrows to 1.6 nautical miles (1.8 miles), hinder large vessels from maneuvering, an advantage for Iran’s technologically inferior forces.
Iran can harass vessels, detain foreign ships or take other actions that don’t cause enough damage or casualties to warrant military retaliation, but remind its adversaries of its reach and capacity to disrupt trade.
Between 2016 and late 2017, Iranian small patrol craft routinely harassed U.S. vessels by darting toward them, risking miscalculation, U.S. officials said at the time. Iran said it was patrolling the Strait and sometimes accused the U.S. of provoking its forces by firing warning flares. The Revolutionary Guard in 2015 tested ballistic missiles in the Persian Gulf within a mile of U.S. vessels.

In the event of a conflict, “the closing of the Strait of Hormuz would be a sideshow,” said Mohammad Marandi, a professor at Tehran University.
Iran, he said, would swiftly attack oil and gas facilities of any country supporting an offensive against it, leading to a refugee crisis in Europe and catastrophic consequences for the global economy. As a result, he said, “the belief here is that the chance of a conflict is low.”

The U.S. and Iran have clashed at sea before. When the U.S. in 1988 sent a frigate to the Persian Gulf to protect Kuwaiti tankers against Iranian speedboat attacks, the warship struck an Iranian mine, blowing a hole in its hull. In response, the U.S. destroyed two Iranian oil platforms, sank one Iranian frigate and wrecked another along with three of its armed speed boats.

The recent tanker incident is a perfect example of what Iran can do, said Michael Connell, an expert in Persian Gulf security with the Virginia-based Center for Naval Analyses who also assumed Iran was responsible.

In the recent tanker incident, the U.S. military concluded that Iranian divers planted timed magnetic mines on four ships, a U.S. official told The Wall Street Journal. The mines exploded within 53 minutes of each other, creating similar holes up to five meters square, the official said.

Iran’s parallel navies, since 2007, have had a division of responsibility: The IRGC protects the Persian Gulf and shares responsibility for the Strait of Hormuz with the conventional navy, which patrols the Gulf of Oman and the Caspian Sea and has an operational range that extends to Indonesia.

The IRGC Navy received at least 46 fast-attack craft from China and North Korea between 1996 and 2006, according to the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence.

Iran’s regular navy operates with medium-size vessels and the only fleet of submarines owned by a Gulf country. In the 1990s, Iran received three Kilo class submarines from Russia that can be armed with torpedoes, surface-to-surface missiles and mines. Iran has produced about 13 midget submarines, also carrying torpedoes, modeled on one it received in 2004 from North Korea. In February, Iran commissioned its first domestically produced coastal submarine, the Office of Naval Intelligence says.

Central to Iran’s naval defense is its stock of antiship ballistic missiles with a range of about 300 kilometers (186 miles).

Iran’s most powerful weapon may be its access to the Strait of Hormuz. Naval war experts estimate that Iran could close the strait for as many as four weeks with its combined force of asymmetric warfare, submarines and naval blockade.

But in addition to the damage inflicted by a U.S. military response, Iran’s economy would suffer. It depends more than any country on oil that is transported through the strait.

This Telegraph report has the most useful map I've found :
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... gulf-oman/

[a fan]

Well, you and Trump thought picking a fight with Iran was a better path than the Nuclear Deal. Shockingly, that's what you're getting.

So now that you're getting precisely what you want.....what's the next brilliant step? Send a carrier group in? Blow up an airport? Docks? Sink a few Iranian Navy ships?

What's the next wholly planned escalation? And how long before you and Trump pull a Saddam..... "well gee whiz, we just HAD to take them out. What choice did we have"?


Have to say, I'm really impressed with this new path so far. This is most definitely better than the deal that we had.

[MDlaxfan76]

Well, you and Trump thought picking a fight with Iran was a better path than the Nuclear Deal. Shockingly, that's what you're getting.

So now that you're getting precisely what you want.....what's the next brilliant step? Send a carrier group in? Blow up an airport? Docks? Sink a few Iranian Navy ships?

What's the next wholly planned escalation? And how long before you and Trump pull a Saddam..... "well gee whiz, we just HAD to take them out. What choice did we have"?


Have to say, I'm really impressed with this new path so far. This is most definitely better than the deal that we had.

Wag the dog in motion.

[jhu72]

Trump is really getting hammered for his stupid remarks yesterday - even some republicans (not many). MT Balzac (AKA Lindsay Graham) even had a non-fawning word for it. Good time for some dog tail.

[old salt]

Well, you and Trump thought picking a fight with Iran was a better path than the Nuclear Deal. Shockingly, that's what you're getting.

So now that you're getting precisely what you want.....what's the next brilliant step? Send a carrier group in? Blow up an airport? Docks? Sink a few Iranian Navy ships?

What's the next wholly planned escalation? And how long before you and Trump pull a Saddam..... "well gee whiz, we just HAD to take them out. What choice did we have"?


Have to say, I'm really impressed with this new path so far. This is most definitely better than the deal that we had.

Wag the dog in motion.

Yeah. Iran was doing really good works with all the $$$ they got back.
A real stabilizing influence in the ME.

Obama & Kerry gave the Mullahs a golden opportunity to come in from the cold.
Trump gave them another year. They blew it.
They now hope to wait out Trump & figure we'll come running back, with their EUroburgher pimps.
If Trump loses in 2020, they may be right.

As long as they don't attack a US ship or US personnel, I don't expect US military retaliation.
I'm interested to see if Trump calls for a naval coalition to minesweep, convoy & keep the sea lanes open.

[OCanada]

No we blew it.

Iran was and is still as far as I know abiding by the agreement put in place.

There is every reason to question Pompeo’s account. First both he and the president have an extensive history of lying and possess every interest in continuing to do so. Iran is hosting the Japanese PM talking business and decides it wants to attack a Japanese ship? I doubt it. Makes no sense. Rather it makes more sense someone wants to stop or disrupt the talks,

Trump’s SA relationship cannot be untangled from his financial ties. He has motivation and history on SA

Iran got back money it was legally entitled to get back. I favor honoring our agreements

[jhu72]

No we blew it.

Iran was and is still as far as I know abiding by the agreement put in place.

There is every reason to question Pompeo’s account. First both he and the president have an extensive history of lying and possess every interest in continuing to do so. Iran is hosting the Japanese PM talking business and decides it wants to attack a Japanese ship? <<--- THIS! A country they have pretty good relationship with I doubt it. Makes no sense. Rather it makes more sense someone wants to stop or disrupt the talks,

Trump’s SA relationship cannot be untangled from his financial ties. He has motivation and history on SA

Iran got back money it was legally entitled to get back. I favor honoring our agreements

They have very recently stopped honoring the agreement by dispossing of less nuclear fuel than called for, but only by a little (IIRC). It's a statement, nothing more. This totally in reaction to the US welching on the deal. NO ONE BELIEVES US ANY MORE. OUR WORD IS beans. Thank you President lack of brains.

[old salt]

To answer afan's question in another thread.

Here's a report on a US/UK/French naval minesweeping exercise in the Persian Gulf in April.

A small, but positive, part of a potential NATO effort to keep the sea lanes open.

In this case, minesweeping is not (yet} necessary. These appear to be magnetic limpet mines, covertly attached to a ship's hull.
Like maritime IED's.

https://www.apnews.com/6a48842e263541a5b3451f0d41dee01a

[old salt]

No we blew it.

Iran was and is still as far as I know abiding by the agreement put in place.

There is every reason to question Pompeo’s account. First both he and the president have an extensive history of lying and possess every interest in continuing to do so. Iran is hosting the Japanese PM talking business and decides it wants to attack a Japanese ship? <<--- THIS! A country they have pretty good relationship with I doubt it. Makes no sense. Rather it makes more sense someone wants to stop or disrupt the talks,

Trump’s SA relationship cannot be untangled from his financial ties. He has motivation and history on SA

Iran got back money it was legally entitled to get back. I favor honoring our agreements

They have very recently stopped honoring the agreement by dispossing of less nuclear fuel than called for, but only by a little (IIRC). It's a statement, nothing more. This totally in reaction to the US welching on the deal. NO ONE BELIEVES US ANY MORE. OUR WORD IS beans. Thank you President lack of brains.

So if Iran's not placing the mines, who is ? Does MBS have a secret SEAL team ? Spin it on out for us.

[CU88]

No we blew it.

Iran was and is still as far as I know abiding by the agreement put in place.

There is every reason to question Pompeo’s account. First both he and the president have an extensive history of lying and possess every interest in continuing to do so. Iran is hosting the Japanese PM talking business and decides it wants to attack a Japanese ship? <<--- THIS! A country they have pretty good relationship with I doubt it. Makes no sense. Rather it makes more sense someone wants to stop or disrupt the talks,

Trump’s SA relationship cannot be untangled from his financial ties. He has motivation and history on SA

Iran got back money it was legally entitled to get back. I favor honoring our agreements

They have very recently stopped honoring the agreement by dispossing of less nuclear fuel than called for, but only by a little (IIRC). It's a statement, nothing more. This totally in reaction to the US welching on the deal. NO ONE BELIEVES US ANY MORE. OUR WORD IS beans. Thank you President lack of brains.

So if Iran's not placing the mines, who is ? Does MBS have a secret SEAL team ? Spin it on out for us.

Really you trust our intelligence, swamp dwelling, agencies???

FAKE NEWS

I guess that your magnetic mines now have wings too???

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ja ... 7c1febbed0

FAKE NEWS

[Typical Lax Dad]

No we blew it.

Iran was and is still as far as I know abiding by the agreement put in place.

There is every reason to question Pompeo’s account. First both he and the president have an extensive history of lying and possess every interest in continuing to do so. Iran is hosting the Japanese PM talking business and decides it wants to attack a Japanese ship? <<--- THIS! A country they have pretty good relationship with I doubt it. Makes no sense. Rather it makes more sense someone wants to stop or disrupt the talks,

Trump’s SA relationship cannot be untangled from his financial ties. He has motivation and history on SA

Iran got back money it was legally entitled to get back. I favor honoring our agreements

They have very recently stopped honoring the agreement by dispossing of less nuclear fuel than called for, but only by a little (IIRC). It's a statement, nothing more. This totally in reaction to the US welching on the deal. NO ONE BELIEVES US ANY MORE. OUR WORD IS beans. Thank you President lack of brains.

So if Iran's not placing the mines, who is ? Does MBS have a secret SEAL team ? Spin it on out for us.

Really you trust our intelligence, swamp dwelling, agencies???

FAKE NEWS

I guess that your magnetic mines now have wings too???

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ja ... 7c1febbed0

FAKE NEWS

WMDs all over again!

[Typical Lax Dad]

No we blew it.

Iran was and is still as far as I know abiding by the agreement put in place.

There is every reason to question Pompeo’s account. First both he and the president have an extensive history of lying and possess every interest in continuing to do so. Iran is hosting the Japanese PM talking business and decides it wants to attack a Japanese ship? <<--- THIS! A country they have pretty good relationship with I doubt it. Makes no sense. Rather it makes more sense someone wants to stop or disrupt the talks,

Trump’s SA relationship cannot be untangled from his financial ties. He has motivation and history on SA

Iran got back money it was legally entitled to get back. I favor honoring our agreements

They have very recently stopped honoring the agreement by dispossing of less nuclear fuel than called for, but only by a little (IIRC). It's a statement, nothing more. This totally in reaction to the US welching on the deal. NO ONE BELIEVES US ANY MORE. OUR WORD IS beans. Thank you President lack of brains.

So if Iran's not placing the mines, who is ? Does MBS have a secret SEAL team ? Spin it on out for us.

Miles Finch laid the mines.

[old salt]

No we blew it.

Iran was and is still as far as I know abiding by the agreement put in place.

There is every reason to question Pompeo’s account. First both he and the president have an extensive history of lying and possess every interest in continuing to do so. Iran is hosting the Japanese PM talking business and decides it wants to attack a Japanese ship? <<--- THIS! A country they have pretty good relationship with I doubt it. Makes no sense. Rather it makes more sense someone wants to stop or disrupt the talks,

Trump’s SA relationship cannot be untangled from his financial ties. He has motivation and history on SA

Iran got back money it was legally entitled to get back. I favor honoring our agreements

They have very recently stopped honoring the agreement by dispossing of less nuclear fuel than called for, but only by a little (IIRC). It's a statement, nothing more. This totally in reaction to the US welching on the deal. NO ONE BELIEVES US ANY MORE. OUR WORD IS beans. Thank you President lack of brains.

So if Iran's not placing the mines, who is ? Does MBS have a secret SEAL team ? Spin it on out for us.

Really you trust our intelligence, swamp dwelling, agencies???

FAKE NEWS

I guess that your magnetic mines now have wings too???

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ja ... 7c1febbed0

FAKE NEWS

.. ...good reporting & fact checking.
Photos of the Kokuka Courageous clearly show the hole in the starboard side of the hull, just above the water line.
The MSM, the ship owner, & apparently you, don't know stem from stern.
Bass Boat War with RPGs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ja ... 03b6ee7d9b

Yutaka Katada, president of the Kokuka Sangyo shipping company, said the Filipino crew of the Kokuka Courageous tanker thought their vessel was hit by flying objects rather than a mine.

“The crew are saying it was hit with a flying object. They say something came flying toward them, then there was an explosion, then there was a hole in the vessel,” he told reporters. “Then some crew witnessed a second shot.”

The United States said the tanker was attacked by limpet mines and released a video that it said showed men aboard an Iranian boat removing an unexploded mine from one of the ships.

But Katada offered an alternative version of how the events unfolded.
" To put a bomb on the side is not something we are thinking,” he said. “If it’s between an explosion and a penetrating bullet, I have a feeling it is a penetrating bullet. If it was an explosion, there would be damage in different places, but this is just an assumption or a guess.”

On Thursday, company officials said the vessel, which had been carrying methanol from Saudi Arabia to Singapore, was first hit by what appeared to be an artillery shell toward the stern, causing a fire in the engine room that crew members were able to extinguish.

Three hours later, the ship was again attacked on the same side in the center of the hull, at which point the captain felt it was no longer safe and ordered the crew to take to the life boats, officials said.
" When the shell hit, it was above the water surface by quite a lot,” Katada said Friday. “Because of that, there is no doubt that it wasn’t a torpedo.”

Company officials said Thursday that the ship was hit on the port side, but photos released by the United States showed damage and a suspected mine on the starboard side.

[CU88]

No we blew it.

Iran was and is still as far as I know abiding by the agreement put in place.

There is every reason to question Pompeo’s account. First both he and the president have an extensive history of lying and possess every interest in continuing to do so. Iran is hosting the Japanese PM talking business and decides it wants to attack a Japanese ship? <<--- THIS! A country they have pretty good relationship with I doubt it. Makes no sense. Rather it makes more sense someone wants to stop or disrupt the talks,

Trump’s SA relationship cannot be untangled from his financial ties. He has motivation and history on SA

Iran got back money it was legally entitled to get back. I favor honoring our agreements

They have very recently stopped honoring the agreement by dispossing of less nuclear fuel than called for, but only by a little (IIRC). It's a statement, nothing more. This totally in reaction to the US welching on the deal. NO ONE BELIEVES US ANY MORE. OUR WORD IS beans. Thank you President lack of brains.

So if Iran's not placing the mines, who is ? Does MBS have a secret SEAL team ? Spin it on out for us.

Really you trust our intelligence, swamp dwelling, agencies???

FAKE NEWS

I guess that your magnetic mines now have wings too???

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ja ... 7c1febbed0

FAKE NEWS

.. ...good reporting & fact checking.
Photos of the Kokuka Courageous clearly show the hole in the starboard side of the hull, just above the water line.
The MSM, the ship owner, & apparently you, don't know stem from stern.
Bass Boat War with RPGs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ja ... 03b6ee7d9b

Yutaka Katada, president of the Kokuka Sangyo shipping company, said the Filipino crew of the Kokuka Courageous tanker thought their vessel was hit by flying objects rather than a mine.

“The crew are saying it was hit with a flying object. They say something came flying toward them, then there was an explosion, then there was a hole in the vessel,” he told reporters. “Then some crew witnessed a second shot.”

The United States said the tanker was attacked by limpet mines and released a video that it said showed men aboard an Iranian boat removing an unexploded mine from one of the ships.

But Katada offered an alternative version of how the events unfolded.
" To put a bomb on the side is not something we are thinking,” he said. “If it’s between an explosion and a penetrating bullet, I have a feeling it is a penetrating bullet. If it was an explosion, there would be damage in different places, but this is just an assumption or a guess.”

On Thursday, company officials said the vessel, which had been carrying methanol from Saudi Arabia to Singapore, was first hit by what appeared to be an artillery shell toward the stern, causing a fire in the engine room that crew members were able to extinguish.

Three hours later, the ship was again attacked on the same side in the center of the hull, at which point the captain felt it was no longer safe and ordered the crew to take to the life boats, officials said.
" When the shell hit, it was above the water surface by quite a lot,” Katada said Friday. “Because of that, there is no doubt that it wasn’t a torpedo.”

Company officials said Thursday that the ship was hit on the port side, but photos released by the United States showed damage and a suspected mine on the starboard side.

o s, glad that you saw the humor in my post.

[MDlaxfan76]

No we blew it.

Iran was and is still as far as I know abiding by the agreement put in place.

There is every reason to question Pompeo’s account. First both he and the president have an extensive history of lying and possess every interest in continuing to do so. Iran is hosting the Japanese PM talking business and decides it wants to attack a Japanese ship? <<--- THIS! A country they have pretty good relationship with I doubt it. Makes no sense. Rather it makes more sense someone wants to stop or disrupt the talks,

Trump’s SA relationship cannot be untangled from his financial ties. He has motivation and history on SA

Iran got back money it was legally entitled to get back. I favor honoring our agreements

They have very recently stopped honoring the agreement by dispossing of less nuclear fuel than called for, but only by a little (IIRC). It's a statement, nothing more. This totally in reaction to the US welching on the deal. NO ONE BELIEVES US ANY MORE. OUR WORD IS beans. Thank you President lack of brains.

So if Iran's not placing the mines, who is ? Does MBS have a secret SEAL team ? Spin it on out for us.

Not exactly a difficult thought exercise.

Iran's government is certainly not likely to have taken such action at that moment in time, given the Japanese visit.
And indeed they officially are denying it.

So, if Iran's government did not do or authorize this, who could it have been?
Here's a few possibilities:

1) a hard right group within Iran not authorized;
2) A proxy group, like Yemen, not fully under their control;
Or a country or group seeking to put Iran in a tough position
3) Saudi Arabia
4) Israel
5) If US, likely a cut out

[Brooklyn]

FALSE FLAG alert!

Owner of Japanese vessel that was "attacked" by Iran denies Teheran had anything to do with it:

[old salt]

No we blew it.

Iran was and is still as far as I know abiding by the agreement put in place.

There is every reason to question Pompeo’s account. First both he and the president have an extensive history of lying and possess every interest in continuing to do so. Iran is hosting the Japanese PM talking business and decides it wants to attack a Japanese ship? <<--- THIS! A country they have pretty good relationship with I doubt it. Makes no sense. Rather it makes more sense someone wants to stop or disrupt the talks,

Trump’s SA relationship cannot be untangled from his financial ties. He has motivation and history on SA

Iran got back money it was legally entitled to get back. I favor honoring our agreements

They have very recently stopped honoring the agreement by dispossing of less nuclear fuel than called for, but only by a little (IIRC). It's a statement, nothing more. This totally in reaction to the US welching on the deal. NO ONE BELIEVES US ANY MORE. OUR WORD IS beans. Thank you President lack of brains.

So if Iran's not placing the mines, who is ? Does MBS have a secret SEAL team ? Spin it on out for us.

Not exactly a difficult thought exercise.

Iran's government is certainly not likely to have taken such action at that moment in time, given the Japanese visit.
And indeed they officially are denying it.

So, if Iran's government did not do or authorize this, who could it have been?
Here's a few possibilities:

1) a hard right group within Iran not authorized;
2) A proxy group, like Yemen, not fully under their control;
Or a country or group seeking to put Iran in a tough position
3) Saudi Arabia
4) Israel
5) If US, likely a cut out

.. ...UFOs (unidentified floating objects)

Look at where this is happening (outside the Strait of Hormuz), the ports from which all 6 ships departed, their route & time at sea during darkness.

In the photo of the Courageous released by CENTCOM & the IR video of the IRGC boat removing the mine, you see the same 4 white markings on the stbd side of the hull. The railings & plumbing visible on the deck are identical, as is the visible waterline & bottom paint visible.

The IRGC are the only ones with the location, capable of doing this,
...unless you think CENTCOM, 5th Fleet, & the officers & crews of multiple USN ships & aircraft are pulling off an elaborate false flag operation.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-shoo ... nker-scene

Pompeo said: “This assessment is based on intelligence, the weapons used, the level of expertise needed to execute the operation, recent similar Iranian attacks on shipping, and the fact that no proxy group operating in the area has the resources and proficiency to act with such a high degree of sophistication.”

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/14/politics ... index.html

Prior to taking fire, the American MQ-9 Reaper drone observed Iranian vessels closing in on the tankers, the official added, though the source did not say whether the unmanned aircraft saw the boats conducting an actual attack.

Not a good time to volunteer for duty in an Iranian air defense SA-7 unit or to join an IRGC boat crew.

[MDlaxfan76]

No we blew it.

Iran was and is still as far as I know abiding by the agreement put in place.

There is every reason to question Pompeo’s account. First both he and the president have an extensive history of lying and possess every interest in continuing to do so. Iran is hosting the Japanese PM talking business and decides it wants to attack a Japanese ship? <<--- THIS! A country they have pretty good relationship with I doubt it. Makes no sense. Rather it makes more sense someone wants to stop or disrupt the talks,

Trump’s SA relationship cannot be untangled from his financial ties. He has motivation and history on SA

Iran got back money it was legally entitled to get back. I favor honoring our agreements

They have very recently stopped honoring the agreement by dispossing of less nuclear fuel than called for, but only by a little (IIRC). It's a statement, nothing more. This totally in reaction to the US welching on the deal. NO ONE BELIEVES US ANY MORE. OUR WORD IS beans. Thank you President lack of brains.

So if Iran's not placing the mines, who is ? Does MBS have a secret SEAL team ? Spin it on out for us.

Not exactly a difficult thought exercise.

Iran's government is certainly not likely to have taken such action at that moment in time, given the Japanese visit.
And indeed they officially are denying it.

So, if Iran's government did not do or authorize this, who could it have been?
Here's a few possibilities:

1) a hard right group within Iran not authorized;
2) A proxy group, like Yemen, not fully under their control;
Or a country or group seeking to put Iran in a tough position
3) Saudi Arabia
4) Israel
5) If US, likely a cut out

.. ...UFOs (unidentified floating objects)

Look at where this is happening (outside the Strait of Hormuz), the ports from which all 6 ships departed, their route & time at sea during darkness.

In the photo of the Courageous released by CENTCOM & the IR video of the IRGC boat removing the mine, you see the same 4 white markings on the stbd side of the hull. The railings & plumbing visible on the deck are identical, as is the visible waterline & bottom paint visible.

The IRGC are the only ones with the location, capable of doing this,
...unless you think CENTCOM, 5th Fleet, & the officers & crews of multiple USN ships & aircraft are pulling off an elaborate false flag operation.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-shoo ... nker-scene

Pompeo said: “This assessment is based on intelligence, the weapons used, the level of expertise needed to execute the operation, recent similar Iranian attacks on shipping, and the fact that no proxy group operating in the area has the resources and proficiency to act with such a high degree of sophistication.”

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/14/politics ... index.html

Prior to taking fire, the American MQ-9 Reaper drone observed Iranian vessels closing in on the tankers, the official added, though the source did not say whether the unmanned aircraft saw the boats conducting an actual attack.

Not a good time to volunteer for duty in an Iranian air defense SA-7 unit or to join an IRGC boat crew.

Schiff, on Face the Nation, is confirming that the intelligence is strong that this was Iranian.

Likely hard liner driven, in response to the ratcheted sanctions.

Unfortunately, we have such low credibility at this point.

[Brooklyn]

Schiff, on Face the Nation, is confirming that the intelligence is strong that this was Iranian.

Likely hard liner driven, in response to the ratcheted sanctions.

Unfortunately, we have such low credibility at this point.

Same claim was made about delusional Bush's WMD and about the mythic Assad gas attacks.