The Independent State Legislature Doctrine

[Typical Lax Dad]

I don't think any of that matters, russy, this man wants to be a Supreme Court judge and it's not his youthful indiscretions (if youthful indiscretions kept one from getting a job I would be looking at a lifetime of unemployment) that are causing problems here, it's his unwillingness to be truthful about them. A beer drinking party boy (some people like their beer and getting hammered much more than others and he's one of them) who has never forgotten a moment of his drunken state. I'm sure he's got a bridge for sale too. Owning up to his youthful behavior would have been a much smarter thing to do as I believe most people would have said, yup, been there, done that too, I get it.
I graduated as a virgin is another feeble attempt at deception (this guy wants to be a SC judge not a used car salesman), I would think a SC judge should be held to higher standards. Why would you say something like that? As tech noted earlier, this has a, "I never had sexual relations with that woman" tone to it. Guess he struck out back then, and I think he's struck out again here. If he hasn't, the country needs some new umpires, IMO.

Russ is Heath Ledger.....that’s all

[MDlaxfan76]

This story about the women in the elevators changing Flake's mind is total nonsense.

Nonsense or not, how on earth were these people allowed anywhere near the Senator? Also, it comes off as so obviously staged...

How can security be so lax? Now that the left has started to interfere with these proceedings via mob intervention, without better security, someone is going to get killed.

Are you saying that it was 'staged' to allow a couple of women to corner him like that? Did you get the sense that the women were aware of such 'staging'?

I sure as heck got the impression that the women were super passionate and emotional, not a whiff of their 'acting'. Genuine.

And Flake looked absolutely horrified and clearly wanted to get out; he was pushing the button on the elevator door but they had it blocked. He didn't want to be rude, but he sure as heck wanted to get out of that corner. But they were so compelling that he simply couldn't bring himself to ignore them. Again, sure looked genuine to me.

I find it hard to believe that he was 'already there' 100% and this was just an act. Seemed to me that he was wavering, definitely felt that more investigation would be helpful, but had decided to go along in order to get a conservative justice on the court, which is now in jeopardy. But the weight of the moment and the Dem Senators with whom he'd been talking over the week finally got to him during the final comments. Just too much. Country coming apart at the seams.

I also don't buy that there's any reason why, if he'd decided to take this course last night, he couldn't have simply said so and forced it right off the bat. No need to have Grassley in the dark. He and either of the 2 R women Senators would have been more than enough to demand the investigation before their vote as a yes would be available on the floor. They simply could abstain from voting until and investigation was completed and Kavanaugh would be voted down. McConnell would have been in exactly the same position as he is now without all the drama.

Note that as he is retiring and clearly never going to be popular with Trumpists, his only political path, or other future gov't service, would be in the event of Trumpism being thoroughly rejected by the GOP and/or as someone a D Pres could trust to be a non-partisan Cabinet official. And if no future political ambitions, I think his views of country and morality before party are indeed genuine.

So, my take is that he reconsidered throughout the morning and found a narrow path forward better than simply going along. Of course, that could be incorrect.

[seacoaster]

I like to put all this into the larger context of how this will affect mid-term voting. Seacoaster, you're a lawyer and I'm not surprised that you see all of this through that lens, a liberal lawyer lens I might add.

The minutia obviously matters to you.

IMO though, most people see this simply as HS/college youthful indiscretions and pure political theatre.

I confess, I am a little down in the weeds on this, because I think the Court's importance in our system of government is extraordinarily important and, respectfully, not altogether understood by a lot of folks who only focus on reproductive rights and the occasional civil rights case about college admissions and cake-baking. I am really not at all qualified to assess the meaning of this for the midterms. I cannot, though, imagine that this is a net positive for Republicans.

Interesting reactions to the Flake elevator encounter. I did not think it was staged or contrived (aha! I'm easily fooled!). I did think it was remarkable. Is there another country in the world where a constituent or a citizen can engage in that sort of an ardent, fiery encounter with an important political leader? In Turkey, you go to jail and don't come out. The women's passion, Flake's obvious sadness and effort to listen, and the television cameras made me pretty proud to be an American.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I like to put all this into the larger context of how this will affect mid-term voting. Seacoaster, you're a lawyer and I'm not surprised that you see all of this through that lens, a liberal lawyer lens I might add.

The minutia obviously matters to you.

IMO though, most people see this simply as HS/college youthful indiscretions and pure political theatre.

It's not just the lies about high school...may have leaked info on Vincent Foster case....the only guy in the office that can't remember that the boss' conduct was sexually inappropriate, lied about stolen emails during Starr investigation....he has demonstrated a pattern of being untruthful as an adult....not a 17 year old HS kid.

[MDlaxfan76]

I like to put all this into the larger context of how this will affect mid-term voting. Seacoaster, you're a lawyer and I'm not surprised that you see all of this through that lens, a liberal lawyer lens I might add.

The minutia obviously matters to you.

IMO though, most people see this simply as HS/college youthful indiscretions and pure political theatre.

"most people" are definitely not seeing it that way. Some are, for sure.

My bottomline, which has only strengthened over the course of watching him on Fox and then before the committee is that he fails to tell the truth on numerous small matters that go to whether he actually might have done this assault but may either not remember or was not aware in the moment of the trauma he was causing. And that raises the issue of whether he is telling the truth on the Big One.

As I wrote over a week ago, I was rooting for Kavanaugh on the basis of the support of his former Yale classmate who is married to the brother of my best man. I trusted her judgment. Teacher/Coach, powerful ad played over and over again.

She rescinded her full throated support after the Fox interview. Several other former classmates who had supported him have similarly quite publicly said that he was/is lying about his drinking behavior in college, his credibility in making claims that he didn't ever blackout.

I found his testimony about 'boofed', 'devil's triangle', and 'ralph' total BS.

His claim to have not drunk during the week and having not attended any house parties similar to the one described by Ford was totally belied by the evidence he himself provided, his calendar.

I add these up and see him as consistently attempting to hide the truth.

I had argued at the outset that he'd locked himself into a corner by so strenuously denying any possibility that Ford's story was truthful, that he never, ever could have done this act, including in a situation of drunken stupidity that he himself is not able to remember. I argued that had he allowed for the possibility of teenage drunken stupidity, with no specific recollection of the event, with genuine remorse for the trauma he may have caused 36 years ago, he'd have my support no problem. The genuine remorse would be essential.

It's the cover-up and lying now that is disqualifying in my book.

[Typical Lax Dad]

What has surprised me more than anything is how great Kavanaugh’s background is on paper, but he is one of the least impressive people I have ever seen sit in front of Congress. This is the best we can do? Jeez, we have fallen.

Compare his demeanor to C Justice Roberts. Roberts looked and acted like a judge. Impeccable CV.

Finally watched Kavanaugh's full testimony. Wow, did he look like a the three spoiled prep kids from Scent of a Woman. He brought up the Dems? The Clintons? The election? And this is supposed to be a smart man? He acted like a child who lost his lolly.

Hey Kavanaugh: for those of us with IQ's above room temperature, we all see that the correct play is to comport yourself with dignity and few words. You let the R Senators act like wild dogs.....that way you can look cool, calm, and collected...while still venting spleen. You did none of these things, you boob. Clarence Thomas did a better job in his hearing, and that's saying something.

Straight from the BAR Assn.:

Rule 1.2: Promoting Confidence in the Judiciary
A judge shall act at all times in a manner that promotes public confidence in the independence,* integrity,* and impartiality* of the judiciary, and shall avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety.

After watching that mess of a hearing, I wouldn't hire Kavanaugh to watch my dog, let alone sit on a Federal bench after that performance. Geez, dude. Not a bright moment for you.

His opening statement was disqualifying in my mind. It was down hill from there.....when asked if he ever passed out from drinking, he said, I have never passed out but I have fallen asleep. He fails rule 1.2 on many levels. Find a better conservative candidate. It should not be hard. When asked about the ralphing references in his year book he came up with some lame lie about eating food that disagreed with his stomach......are people supposed to be stupid? It's not about those things being important.....it's a matter of his truthfulness today. There are so many things he has shaded the truth on, he could be up for perjury. He has been a political operative more than a judge and it shows. We don't need a Supreme Court judge with an agenda. A bias is fine but an agenda is something different.

In the past 70 years, has ANY nominee had to answer questions about their HS yearbook? Or, more specifically, whether they ever passed out from drinking. TLD, please define the difference between passing out and falling asleep? (pretty easy ) Sleeping on a car hood, on the toilet, people drawing things on you, putting shaving cream, shaving hair, dressing them in funny clothes, etc. It's ok for our members of congress to be able to do all these things, take ILLEGAL drugs, because they have no power. No authority to kill people.

Or, if you are a girl in college, it is waking up sore because frat boys boinked you all night.... happened when I was in college...if anyone asks, I will tell what I remembered....btw, over the past 70 years, how many nominees were accused of sexual assault....saw his female college friend attest to him being a sloppy drunk....her take was that he was more interested in impressing the boys than the girls. She never saw him aggressive with girls. She said she doesn't understand why he is lying about the drinking and partying....was a heavy drinker when he showed up on campus. It's not the drinking, it's the lying. Guy is a liar. You not caring is fine. My caring is also fine.

[wahoomurf]

oops

[jhu72]

This story about the women in the elevators changing Flake's mind is total nonsense.

Nonsense or not, how on earth were these people allowed anywhere near the Senator? Also, it comes off as so obviously staged...

How can security be so lax? Now that the left has started to interfere with these proceedings via mob intervention, without better security, someone is going to get killed.

Are you saying that it was 'staged' to allow a couple of women to corner him like that? Did you get the sense that the women were aware of such 'staging'?

I sure as heck got the impression that the women were super passionate and emotional, not a whiff of their 'acting'. Genuine.

And Flake looked absolutely horrified and clearly wanted to get out; he was pushing the button on the elevator door but they had it blocked. He didn't want to be rude, but he sure as heck wanted to get out of that corner. But they were so compelling that he simply couldn't bring himself to ignore them. Again, sure looked genuine to me.

I find it hard to believe that he was 'already there' 100% and this was just an act. Seemed to me that he was wavering, definitely felt that more investigation would be helpful, but had decided to go along in order to get a conservative justice on the court, which is now in jeopardy. But the weight of the moment and the Dem Senators with whom he'd been talking over the week finally got to him during the final comments. Just too much. Country coming apart at the seams.

I also don't buy that there's any reason why, if he'd decided to take this course last night, he couldn't have simply said so and forced it right off the bat. No need to have Grassley in the dark. He and either of the 2 R women Senators would have been more than enough to demand the investigation before their vote as a yes would be available on the floor. They simply could abstain from voting until and investigation was completed and Kavanaugh would be voted down. McConnell would have been in exactly the same position as he is now without all the drama.

Note that as he is retiring and clearly never going to be popular with Trumpists, his only political path, or other future gov't service, would be in the event of Trumpism being thoroughly rejected by the GOP and/or as someone a D Pres could trust to be a non-partisan Cabinet official. And if no future political ambitions, I think his views of country and morality before party are indeed genuine.

So, my take is that he reconsidered throughout the morning and found a narrow path forward better than simply going along. Of course, that could be incorrect.

I believe the two women showing up was a coincidence, nothing but. Flake knew the right thing to do was to continue to investigate, he has had this position since Ford came out. The man does have a conscience even though he doesn't always act on it IMO. I do not believe anything really changed his mind, no mind needed changing. The problem all along has been to get to the point where Murkowski and Collins could weigh in. We have known it was very unlikely Murkowski was going to vote to confirm. So McConnell felt he had the votes, no need to worry about Collins. McConnell is a prideful old fart who believes in scorched earth as a tactic. His own caucus knows he has no problem throwing them under the bus. He had threatened to call a vote even if he did not have the votes, just to force the republicans with a conscience to walk the plank. He didn't want this on him. The charade the way it played out allowed McConnell to believe he could still get Flake's vote so long as he didn't see the dems hand in any of this. If Feinstein had been in the sidebar meeting, McConnell would likely have played the scorched earth card. Coons and Klobuchar are not seen as game players to have raised McConnell's antenna. Jeff relied on his reputation of talking a big game, but ultimately always falling in line to temper McConnell's natural reaction.

I do not believe the two women had anything to do with this, they were bystanders. I don't believe this was unplanned and just happened. This was designed to protect Collins and deceive McConnell. Collins wants to do the right thing, get her call right, her political life depends on it. Great theater. We will see when the tell all books are written.

[Trinity]

The idiot I was golfing with yesterday in Florida saw the news on his phone and started cursing Dr Ford because she “lived her whole life in California.”

I did not know where to begin.....

[jhu72]

The idiot I was golfing with yesterday in Florida saw the news on his phone and started cursing Dr Ford because she “lived her whole life in California.”

I did not know where to begin.....

Its like the tale of the Gifford shooting. When the news was reported, folks publicly cheering, saying "we got one".

[Typical Lax Dad]

The idiot I was golfing with yesterday in Florida saw the news on his phone and started cursing Dr Ford because she “lived her whole life in California.”

I did not know where to begin.....

Why people are vested in Kavanaugh is beyond me. Move on to the next conservative judge....but that would not fit the stick it to the “dems” theme.

[a fan]

What a disappointment to read. You all really have NO clue about what any of the other justices are like, or whether they "party". I can cite many, many cases where our current Justices did no such thing in their rulings (acting with integrity or impartiality ) Watch the very first day of the Kav. hearings, when the never tRumpist Senators acted borrishly.

Ah, fattylax, forever the contrarian. I wasn't referring to how a judge acted in High School.....I was referring to how he behaved during his testimony. You and I both know he lied and acted angry....and lashed out in a partisan manner (the election, Dems? What was he thinking when he mentioned those things?)

How many times did you count Kavanaugh flat out lying, under oath? How about his response to being a member of the Beach Week Ralph club? Strike you as honest? How about Renata Alumnius? Sound like an honest answer to you?

Who would you prefer to be a Supreme Court judge? Come on, name them? You can't.

Are you kidding? Anyone else on Trump's shortlist is fine by me. You can't go back to the Water Cooler, but you'll find I was behind the Roberts appointment. Merrick Garland, too. To the victor goes the spoils: I'm supportive of any candidate that has the requisite CV, and is a stellar human being. Don't care if they disagree with my views on the law. Not even a little.

Wanna know who I was against? Clarence Thomas. A five year old could see that Anita Hill told the truth across the board. I wouldn't let Thomas watch my dog, let alone sit on a bench. The other was Bork. Bork is the guy who was such as self serving POS that he followed Nixon's orders and fired the special prosecutor. He should have been disbarred for that on the spot. Instead, because sometimes lawyers can't find their own ass with two hands and a flashlight, he was nominated for the Supreme Court. Ridiculous.

AFAN, for someone that makes a living selling products that induces vomiting.......interesting. Would you prefer people buy LESS of your product?

Again, I don't care about his drinking or his vomiting. Particularly so considering it was decades ago. I care about his lying under oath in 2018. You misread my post.

But to answer your question, if you had to guess, which scenario do you think I'd prefer: that I have one customer that drinks a bottle of my wares a week, or four customers that drink one bottle per month? I'm in the super premium category. My entire business model revolves around the idea of people drinking less, but drinking better. In my category, we have what's called "OND"....meaning October, November, December. It implies that this is the busiest time of year for me because what I make is for special occasions or gifts. I'm not running a business based on volume. Hey, you asked!

[DD-Tech]

The idiot I was golfing with yesterday in Florida saw the news on his phone and started cursing Dr Ford because she “lived her whole life in California.”

I did not know where to begin.....

Nothing worse than getting paired up with a douchebag. How’d you hit’em Trinity?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yep. Find another candidate. There has to be a better candidate than this. McConnell didn’t want the headache. I can see why. The guy seems to be unable to give a straight answer. He goes from not wanting to give any indication of a political leaning during his original hearing to straight up blaming Clinton, Democrats and left wing conspiracy. Like I said, I don’t care about a judge with a bias....an agenda is different. If people don’t know the difference, that’s too bad.

[Trinity]

Not bad. I’m the old man I used to laugh at. Still walk and play with guys who shoot their ages, which is one of Golf’s greatest goals.

[seacoaster]

"Nothing worse than getting paired up with a douchebag."

Truer words, never spoken.

[CU77]

BK has been lying from day 1. When Trump introduced him, BK opened his remarks with

“No president has ever consulted more widely, or talked with more people from more backgrounds, to seek input about a Supreme Court nomination,” he said, after apparently reviewing the selection processes for about 160 previous Supreme Court nominees over about 230 years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... ro-speech/

He was echoing what Trump said. I really wanted the Ds to ask BK about this. Does he believe it's true? To what legal standard? Beyond a reasonable doubt? Preponderance of the evidence? What was the evidence that convinced him that this statement was true? Was it just because President Trump said it? Does BK believe that President Trump always tells the truth?

IMO this would have been far more useful to showing people that BK is a liar than a lot of what the Ds did waste their time on ...

[jhu72]

NBC News just released a story detailing the witnesses list the FBI can question. They are not allowed to talk to the grocery store where Kavanaugh's buddy was supposedly employed. Cannot investigate the claims of Julie Swetnick. Cannot speak with Kavanaugh's second frosh roommate.

This is not really unexpected, the attempt to micro manage the investigation. Prima Facia evidence the administration does not want to know the truth. So all we have is a 7 day waiting period until they will try to push the vote through. They however cannot stop the press, the democrats or Dr. Ford from investigating and presenting more detailed answers. Flake and Coons should jointly piggy back / oversee Fords investigation, admitted them to that process and use the 7 days to do some real investigation with PIs.

Pressure needs to be put on Hogan to have the MSP start asking some questions. There are question inside Maryland that will go unanswered by the limited FBI investigation.

There is more than one way to skin this cat.

[jhu72]

NBC News just released a story detailing the witnesses list the FBI can question. They are not allowed to talk to the grocery store where Kavanaugh's buddy was supposedly employed. Cannot investigate the claims of Julie Swetnick. Cannot speak with Kavanaugh's second frosh roommate.

This is not really unexpected, the attempt to micro manage the investigation. Prima Facia evidence the administration does not want to know the truth. So all we have is a 7 day waiting period until they will try to push the vote through. They however cannot stop the press, the democrats or Dr. Ford from investigating and presenting more detailed answers. Flake and Coons should jointly piggy back / oversee Fords investigation, admit them to that process and use the 7 days to do some real investigation with PIs.

Pressure needs to be put on Larry Hogan to have the MSP start asking some questions. There are question inside Maryland that will go unanswered by the limited FBI investigation.

There is more than one way to skin this cat.

[ardilla secreta]

You can say that again...