Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

[dislaxxic]

Why The Military Is Central To Trump Advisors’ Plans For Mass Deportations

If you talk to the experts, they’ll tell you that Trump’s plan for mass deportations has little chance of succeeding.

Doing what some of Trump’s closest allies, like Stephen Miller, say would be a mammoth undertaking. There are millions of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. And, besides, Trump and Biden both essentially maxed out the country’s deportation capacity: ICE only has so many planes, busses, and personnel to identify undocumented immigrants, and the agency’s budget is set by Congress; there’s only so much ability to persuade other countries to receive their nationals. There are only so many beds available for detainees; only so many immigration judges in an already-overburdened court system.

That, in the plans of Trump officials, is where the military comes in.

Unlike previous Trump plans for immigration crackdowns, Trump allies squarely address the resource constraints that limit the federal government’s deportation capacity, and bring in a simple answer: use the military to do it.

“Last time, they came in in 2017 and they thought just throwing out a bunch of Obama rules would allow them to do mass deportation,” David Bier, director of immigration studies at the CATO Institute, told TPM. “Now, they understand that actually, the game is all about resources. The only way to get the resources is from the military. There’s no way they’re getting it from Congress.”

But enforcing immigration laws is not a mission for which the military trains, and bringing in troops to detain undocumented migrants and using military assets to remove them raises a host of difficult questions. It suggests the chaos is part of the point, as is the way in which the scheme would be a testament to the willpower of handpicked Trump appointees over an experienced bureaucracy.

The plans as previewed by Trump’s allies also suggest a shift in approach, reflective of a Trump campaign that’s reviewed its first term in office and adapted.

..

[Typical Lax Dad]

Why The Military Is Central To Trump Advisors’ Plans For Mass Deportations

If you talk to the experts, they’ll tell you that Trump’s plan for mass deportations has little chance of succeeding.

Doing what some of Trump’s closest allies, like Stephen Miller, say would be a mammoth undertaking. There are millions of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. And, besides, Trump and Biden both essentially maxed out the country’s deportation capacity: ICE only has so many planes, busses, and personnel to identify undocumented immigrants, and the agency’s budget is set by Congress; there’s only so much ability to persuade other countries to receive their nationals. There are only so many beds available for detainees; only so many immigration judges in an already-overburdened court system.

That, in the plans of Trump officials, is where the military comes in.

Unlike previous Trump plans for immigration crackdowns, Trump allies squarely address the resource constraints that limit the federal government’s deportation capacity, and bring in a simple answer: use the military to do it.

“Last time, they came in in 2017 and they thought just throwing out a bunch of Obama rules would allow them to do mass deportation,” David Bier, director of immigration studies at the CATO Institute, told TPM. “Now, they understand that actually, the game is all about resources. The only way to get the resources is from the military. There’s no way they’re getting it from Congress.”

But enforcing immigration laws is not a mission for which the military trains, and bringing in troops to detain undocumented migrants and using military assets to remove them raises a host of difficult questions. It suggests the chaos is part of the point, as is the way in which the scheme would be a testament to the willpower of handpicked Trump appointees over an experienced bureaucracy.

The plans as previewed by Trump’s allies also suggest a shift in approach, reflective of a Trump campaign that’s reviewed its first term in office and adapted.

..

It’s going to be bloody according to Trump.

[old salt]

Baloney. In what other surge of immigrants, legal or undocumented, has there ever been federal funding?.

This community was on its heels, and sought the inbound migration, welcomed and have benefited hugely from the upsurge in economic activity.

Sure, this also means a need to increase housing infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. And that’s typically funded by local and state government, whatever the source of growth.

But we were having a discussion about the lies being told by Trump and Vance, from claims about pets to huge falsehoods about “illegal aliens”.

That shifted to your dismissal of a poster’s family experience with bigotry against immigrants, your claim that his family were “legal”, which I then pointed out is also the status of the Haitians who Trump and Vance are claiming are “illegal”. You tried to rebut with a claim that I can’t prove 100% are legal status though that was never at issue as they are claiming all illegal…now up to 32,000. You then tried to pretend that the NYT also didn’t claim 100%, just most. Yup. But that’s the opposite of Trump and Vance.

You want to ignore the Republican governor and Republican mayor. What, are they RINOs too?

You just dodge the reality on the ground & default to your tedious TDS rants.

From Springfield, I hear the Governor & Mayor asking for the same thing their counterparts in Aurora, CO are asking for.

Give us another example of a small city being inundated with a 25% surge in population of unassimilated migrants who don't speak the language & need housing assistance, health care & food stamps before they can even get a minimum wage job to begin to partially support themselves & their families.
Migrants who don't even speak Spanish, the most readily available ESL resource option.

Martha's Vineyard couldn't even accommodate 50 Venezuelan migrants looking for work without calling in the National Guard to remove them & house them on a military base. They're still in MA, working under the table & surviving on charity.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09 ... s-vineyard
The Dem's Open Border tsunami is a far cry from our past legal immigration patterns.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Baloney. In what other surge of immigrants, legal or undocumented, has there ever been federal funding?.

This community was on its heels, and sought the inbound migration, welcomed and have benefited hugely from the upsurge in economic activity.

Sure, this also means a need to increase housing infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. And that’s typically funded by local and state government, whatever the source of growth.

But we were having a discussion about the lies being told by Trump and Vance, from claims about pets to huge falsehoods about “illegal aliens”.

That shifted to your dismissal of a poster’s family experience with bigotry against immigrants, your claim that his family were “legal”, which I then pointed out is also the status of the Haitians who Trump and Vance are claiming are “illegal”. You tried to rebut with a claim that I can’t prove 100% are legal status though that was never at issue as they are claiming all illegal…now up to 32,000. You then tried to pretend that the NYT also didn’t claim 100%, just most. Yup. But that’s the opposite of Trump and Vance.

You want to ignore the Republican governor and Republican mayor. What, are they RINOs too?

You just dodge the reality on the ground & default to your tedious TDS rants.

From Springfield, I hear the Governor & Mayor asking for the same thing their counterparts in Aurora, CO are asking for.

Give us another example of a small city being inundated with a 25% surge in population of unassimilated migrants who don't speak the language & need housing assistance, health care & food stamps before they can even get a minimum wage job to begin to partially support themselves & their families.
Migrants who don't even speak Spanish, the most readily available ESL resource option.

Martha's Vineyard couldn't even accommodate 50 Venezuelan migrants looking for work without calling in the National Guard to remove them & house them on a military base. They're still in MA, working under the table & surviving on charity.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09 ... s-vineyard
The Dem's Open Border tsunami is a far cry from our past legal immigration patterns.

wuz you dere?

https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news ... OD6ZJD2YI/

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://apnews.com/article/springfield- ... 98409418cc

[Typical Lax Dad]

Old Sailor and people like old sailor want to Make America Great Again....the good old days

https://jacobin.com/2024/09/racism-hait ... rants-ohio

[MDlaxfan76]

Baloney. In what other surge of immigrants, legal or undocumented, has there ever been federal funding?.

This community was on its heels, and sought the inbound migration, welcomed and have benefited hugely from the upsurge in economic activity.

Sure, this also means a need to increase housing infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. And that’s typically funded by local and state government, whatever the source of growth.

But we were having a discussion about the lies being told by Trump and Vance, from claims about pets to huge falsehoods about “illegal aliens”.

That shifted to your dismissal of a poster’s family experience with bigotry against immigrants, your claim that his family were “legal”, which I then pointed out is also the status of the Haitians who Trump and Vance are claiming are “illegal”. You tried to rebut with a claim that I can’t prove 100% are legal status though that was never at issue as they are claiming all illegal…now up to 32,000. You then tried to pretend that the NYT also didn’t claim 100%, just most. Yup. But that’s the opposite of Trump and Vance.

You want to ignore the Republican governor and Republican mayor. What, are they RINOs too?

You just dodge the reality on the ground & default to your tedious TDS rants.

From Springfield, I hear the Governor & Mayor asking for the same thing their counterparts in Aurora, CO are asking for.

Give us another example of a small city being inundated with a 25% surge in population of unassimilated migrants who don't speak the language & need housing assistance, health care & food stamps before they can even get a minimum wage job to begin to partially support themselves & their families.
Migrants who don't even speak Spanish, the most readily available ESL resource option.

Martha's Vineyard couldn't even accommodate 50 Venezuelan migrants looking for work without calling in the National Guard to remove them & house them on a military base. They're still in MA, working under the table & surviving on charity.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09 ... s-vineyard
The Dem's Open Border tsunami is a far cry from our past legal immigration patterns.

Nope, I have multiple times, including directly above, said that when there is a rapid change in population investments need to be made to handle housing, healthcare, education and other increased demands. These are typically addressed by local and state. By local I mean whatever taxing and bond issuance authority. In Maryland, for instance, that’s by county. This surge has happened over a decade. Invited and increasing economic activity.

8,000 new jobs occupied by Haitians supporting a lot of families. With economic ripple effects positively impacting businesses and employment around the board. Paying taxes and reversing economic decline.

Did the local and state governments issue bonds? Or did they ignore the needs until acute?
Why look to federal assistance when you don’t need to?
There’s already substantial federal assistance.

Food stamps are indeed federal dollars as is Medicaid, so don’t vote against such supports, right?

Don’t vote against infrastructure spending, rather apply for such dollars for new roads and schools.

We’ve had enormous past immigration waves, we just didn’t call them “illegal”. Communities transformed by influxes of migrants, towns literally created by migrants arrivals. Often speaking different languages. From Scandinavia , Germany, Italy…on and on…And sure, nativism often reared its ugly head.

And again, the Haitians who Trump and Vance and Ramaswamy and you are calling illegal are here legally, just as legally as your and my ancestors.

Just different pigment.

[cradleandshoot]

Baloney. In what other surge of immigrants, legal or undocumented, has there ever been federal funding?.

This community was on its heels, and sought the inbound migration, welcomed and have benefited hugely from the upsurge in economic activity.

Sure, this also means a need to increase housing infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. And that’s typically funded by local and state government, whatever the source of growth.

But we were having a discussion about the lies being told by Trump and Vance, from claims about pets to huge falsehoods about “illegal aliens”.

That shifted to your dismissal of a poster’s family experience with bigotry against immigrants, your claim that his family were “legal”, which I then pointed out is also the status of the Haitians who Trump and Vance are claiming are “illegal”. You tried to rebut with a claim that I can’t prove 100% are legal status though that was never at issue as they are claiming all illegal…now up to 32,000. You then tried to pretend that the NYT also didn’t claim 100%, just most. Yup. But that’s the opposite of Trump and Vance.

You want to ignore the Republican governor and Republican mayor. What, are they RINOs too?

You just dodge the reality on the ground & default to your tedious TDS rants.

From Springfield, I hear the Governor & Mayor asking for the same thing their counterparts in Aurora, CO are asking for.

Give us another example of a small city being inundated with a 25% surge in population of unassimilated migrants who don't speak the language & need housing assistance, health care & food stamps before they can even get a minimum wage job to begin to partially support themselves & their families.
Migrants who don't even speak Spanish, the most readily available ESL resource option.

Martha's Vineyard couldn't even accommodate 50 Venezuelan migrants looking for work without calling in the National Guard to remove them & house them on a military base. They're still in MA, working under the table & surviving on charity.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09 ... s-vineyard
The Dem's Open Border tsunami is a far cry from our past legal immigration patterns.

Nope, I have multiple times, including directly above, said that when there is a rapid change in population investments need to be made to handle housing, healthcare, education and other increased demands. These are typically addressed by local and state. By local I mean whatever taxing and bond issuance authority. In Maryland, for instance, that’s by county. This surge has happened over a decade. Invited and increasing economic activity.

8,000 new jobs occupied by Haitians supporting a lot of families. With economic ripple effects positively impacting businesses and employment around the board. Paying taxes and reversing economic decline.

Did the local and state governments issue bonds? Or did they ignore the needs until acute?
Why look to federal assistance when you don’t need to?
There’s already substantial federal assistance.

Food stamps are indeed federal dollars as is Medicaid, so don’t vote against such supports, right?

Don’t vote against infrastructure spending, rather apply for such dollars for new roads and schools.

We’ve had enormous past immigration waves, we just didn’t call them “illegal”. Communities transformed by influxes of migrants, towns literally created by migrants arrivals. Often speaking different languages. From Scandinavia , Germany, Italy…on and on…And sure, nativism often reared its ugly head.

And again, the Haitians who Trump and Vance and Ramaswamy and you are calling illegal are here legally, just as legally as your and my ancestors.

Just different pigment.

This is another version of the federal government forcing unfunded mandate spending on the states. The US government opens these folks in with open arms. The US government then dictates what the states must be forced to do to accommodate their new guests. In the meantime US States can hardly deal with the burden of their own homeless populations. If the government wants these new guests to feel welcome, then pony up some money to the states to accommodate your desires.

[MDlaxfan76]

Baloney. In what other surge of immigrants, legal or undocumented, has there ever been federal funding?.

This community was on its heels, and sought the inbound migration, welcomed and have benefited hugely from the upsurge in economic activity.

Sure, this also means a need to increase housing infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. And that’s typically funded by local and state government, whatever the source of growth.

But we were having a discussion about the lies being told by Trump and Vance, from claims about pets to huge falsehoods about “illegal aliens”.

That shifted to your dismissal of a poster’s family experience with bigotry against immigrants, your claim that his family were “legal”, which I then pointed out is also the status of the Haitians who Trump and Vance are claiming are “illegal”. You tried to rebut with a claim that I can’t prove 100% are legal status though that was never at issue as they are claiming all illegal…now up to 32,000. You then tried to pretend that the NYT also didn’t claim 100%, just most. Yup. But that’s the opposite of Trump and Vance.

You want to ignore the Republican governor and Republican mayor. What, are they RINOs too?

You just dodge the reality on the ground & default to your tedious TDS rants.

From Springfield, I hear the Governor & Mayor asking for the same thing their counterparts in Aurora, CO are asking for.

Give us another example of a small city being inundated with a 25% surge in population of unassimilated migrants who don't speak the language & need housing assistance, health care & food stamps before they can even get a minimum wage job to begin to partially support themselves & their families.
Migrants who don't even speak Spanish, the most readily available ESL resource option.

Martha's Vineyard couldn't even accommodate 50 Venezuelan migrants looking for work without calling in the National Guard to remove them & house them on a military base. They're still in MA, working under the table & surviving on charity.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09 ... s-vineyard
The Dem's Open Border tsunami is a far cry from our past legal immigration patterns.

Nope, I have multiple times, including directly above, said that when there is a rapid change in population investments need to be made to handle housing, healthcare, education and other increased demands. These are typically addressed by local and state. By local I mean whatever taxing and bond issuance authority. In Maryland, for instance, that’s by county. This surge has happened over a decade. Invited and increasing economic activity.

8,000 new jobs occupied by Haitians supporting a lot of families. With economic ripple effects positively impacting businesses and employment around the board. Paying taxes and reversing economic decline.

Did the local and state governments issue bonds? Or did they ignore the needs until acute?
Why look to federal assistance when you don’t need to?
There’s already substantial federal assistance.

Food stamps are indeed federal dollars as is Medicaid, so don’t vote against such supports, right?

Don’t vote against infrastructure spending, rather apply for such dollars for new roads and schools.

We’ve had enormous past immigration waves, we just didn’t call them “illegal”. Communities transformed by influxes of migrants, towns literally created by migrants arrivals. Often speaking different languages. From Scandinavia , Germany, Italy…on and on…And sure, nativism often reared its ugly head.

And again, the Haitians who Trump and Vance and Ramaswamy and you are calling illegal are here legally, just as legally as your and my ancestors.

Just different pigment.

This is another version of the federal government forcing unfunded mandate spending on the states. The US government opens these folks in with open arms. The US government then dictates what the states must be forced to do to accommodate their new guests. In the meantime US States can hardly deal with the burden of their own homeless populations. If the government wants these new guests to feel welcome, then pony up some money to the states to accommodate your desires.

Clearly you don’t understand the situation of Springfield. The town was struggling, like many such midwestern towns. They invited the Haitians a decade ago to come and matched that with small employers needing workers, then larger employers opened facilities, especially manufacturing and distribution. This was an economic revival plan. The Haitians kept coming as they knew others had found work and the cycle of growth continued.

What should have happened was a bond vote supporting infrastructure like roads and schools, supported by the growing tax base. But voters often delay such, voting down those sorts of bonds, typically in knee jerk reaction. Especially Republican voters. Understandable because they assume higher taxes will be needed to pay for this, higher real estate taxes…in the meantime their property values rise a lot due to increased demand, a good thing generally to wealth creation, but it also can mean higher assessments. So, voters often balk…Republican legislators often balk…though they like the growth dynamic much better than the decline.

The US government didn’t force Springfield or Ohio to invite these legal immigrants. That was a decision made and continuing to be made by a struggling town and state post financial collapse, a rust belt revival strategy.

Which isn’t to say that I disagree with the notion of the federal system (federal taxpayers) providing funds for states and local jurisdictions to deploy to their specific needs. But we didn’t do Any of that between 2016 and 2020. Despite many “infrastructure weeks”.

But the bipartisan infrastructure act now sends huge amounts of funding to states to deploy to meet their infrastructure needs. Governor DeWine has just committed a chunk of support to Springfield…could that, should that, have happened sooner? Sure seems like yes.

[cradleandshoot]

Baloney. In what other surge of immigrants, legal or undocumented, has there ever been federal funding?.

This community was on its heels, and sought the inbound migration, welcomed and have benefited hugely from the upsurge in economic activity.

Sure, this also means a need to increase housing infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. And that’s typically funded by local and state government, whatever the source of growth.

But we were having a discussion about the lies being told by Trump and Vance, from claims about pets to huge falsehoods about “illegal aliens”.

That shifted to your dismissal of a poster’s family experience with bigotry against immigrants, your claim that his family were “legal”, which I then pointed out is also the status of the Haitians who Trump and Vance are claiming are “illegal”. You tried to rebut with a claim that I can’t prove 100% are legal status though that was never at issue as they are claiming all illegal…now up to 32,000. You then tried to pretend that the NYT also didn’t claim 100%, just most. Yup. But that’s the opposite of Trump and Vance.

You want to ignore the Republican governor and Republican mayor. What, are they RINOs too?

You just dodge the reality on the ground & default to your tedious TDS rants.

From Springfield, I hear the Governor & Mayor asking for the same thing their counterparts in Aurora, CO are asking for.

Give us another example of a small city being inundated with a 25% surge in population of unassimilated migrants who don't speak the language & need housing assistance, health care & food stamps before they can even get a minimum wage job to begin to partially support themselves & their families.
Migrants who don't even speak Spanish, the most readily available ESL resource option.

Martha's Vineyard couldn't even accommodate 50 Venezuelan migrants looking for work without calling in the National Guard to remove them & house them on a military base. They're still in MA, working under the table & surviving on charity.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09 ... s-vineyard
The Dem's Open Border tsunami is a far cry from our past legal immigration patterns.

Nope, I have multiple times, including directly above, said that when there is a rapid change in population investments need to be made to handle housing, healthcare, education and other increased demands. These are typically addressed by local and state. By local I mean whatever taxing and bond issuance authority. In Maryland, for instance, that’s by county. This surge has happened over a decade. Invited and increasing economic activity.

8,000 new jobs occupied by Haitians supporting a lot of families. With economic ripple effects positively impacting businesses and employment around the board. Paying taxes and reversing economic decline.

Did the local and state governments issue bonds? Or did they ignore the needs until acute?
Why look to federal assistance when you don’t need to?
There’s already substantial federal assistance.

Food stamps are indeed federal dollars as is Medicaid, so don’t vote against such supports, right?

Don’t vote against infrastructure spending, rather apply for such dollars for new roads and schools.

We’ve had enormous past immigration waves, we just didn’t call them “illegal”. Communities transformed by influxes of migrants, towns literally created by migrants arrivals. Often speaking different languages. From Scandinavia , Germany, Italy…on and on…And sure, nativism often reared its ugly head.

And again, the Haitians who Trump and Vance and Ramaswamy and you are calling illegal are here legally, just as legally as your and my ancestors.

Just different pigment.

This is another version of the federal government forcing unfunded mandate spending on the states. The US government opens these folks in with open arms. The US government then dictates what the states must be forced to do to accommodate their new guests. In the meantime US States can hardly deal with the burden of their own homeless populations. If the government wants these new guests to feel welcome, then pony up some money to the states to accommodate your desires.

Clearly you don’t understand the situation of Springfield. The town was struggling, like many such midwestern towns. They invited the Haitians a decade ago to come and matched that with small employers needing workers, then larger employers opened facilities, especially manufacturing and distribution. This was an economic revival plan. The Haitians kept coming as they knew others had found work and the cycle of growth continued.

What should have happened was a bond vote supporting infrastructure like roads and schools, supported by the growing tax base. But voters often delay such, voting down those sorts of bonds, typically in knee jerk reaction. Especially Republican voters. Understandable because they assume higher taxes will be needed to pay for this, higher real estate taxes…in the meantime their property values rise a lot due to increased demand, a good thing generally to wealth creation, but it also can mean higher assessments. So, voters often balk…Republican legislators often balk…though they like the growth dynamic much better than the decline.

The US government didn’t force Springfield or Ohio to invite these legal immigrants. That was a decision made and continuing to be made by a struggling town and state post financial collapse, a rust belt revival strategy.

Which isn’t to say that I disagree with the notion of the federal system (federal taxpayers) providing funds for states and local jurisdictions to deploy to their specific needs. But we didn’t do Any of that between 2016 and 2020. Despite many “infrastructure weeks”.

But the bipartisan infrastructure act now sends huge amounts of funding to states to deploy to meet their infrastructure needs. Governor DeWine has just committed a chunk of support to Springfield…could that, should that, have happened sooner? Sure seems like yes.

Springfield isn't that much different than any other number of American cities dealing with a large number of invited guests to America. My own city is no different. The only difference is the large number of invited guests have been dispersed anonymously to places unknown to local residents. To my understanding the majority of these invited guests were overflow from the deluge of people NYC could not handle. NYC and NYS we have been told are provided reimbursement for food and housing. Sadly here locally our city is struggling mightily to deal with our problem with homelessness. No understanding that our beloved federal government is providing any direct funding to assist. I know that because if they were Senator Chuck Schumer would have showed up locally with his government checkbook in hand.

[MDlaxfan76]

Baloney. In what other surge of immigrants, legal or undocumented, has there ever been federal funding?.

This community was on its heels, and sought the inbound migration, welcomed and have benefited hugely from the upsurge in economic activity.

Sure, this also means a need to increase housing infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. And that’s typically funded by local and state government, whatever the source of growth.

But we were having a discussion about the lies being told by Trump and Vance, from claims about pets to huge falsehoods about “illegal aliens”.

That shifted to your dismissal of a poster’s family experience with bigotry against immigrants, your claim that his family were “legal”, which I then pointed out is also the status of the Haitians who Trump and Vance are claiming are “illegal”. You tried to rebut with a claim that I can’t prove 100% are legal status though that was never at issue as they are claiming all illegal…now up to 32,000. You then tried to pretend that the NYT also didn’t claim 100%, just most. Yup. But that’s the opposite of Trump and Vance.

You want to ignore the Republican governor and Republican mayor. What, are they RINOs too?

You just dodge the reality on the ground & default to your tedious TDS rants.

From Springfield, I hear the Governor & Mayor asking for the same thing their counterparts in Aurora, CO are asking for.

Give us another example of a small city being inundated with a 25% surge in population of unassimilated migrants who don't speak the language & need housing assistance, health care & food stamps before they can even get a minimum wage job to begin to partially support themselves & their families.
Migrants who don't even speak Spanish, the most readily available ESL resource option.

Martha's Vineyard couldn't even accommodate 50 Venezuelan migrants looking for work without calling in the National Guard to remove them & house them on a military base. They're still in MA, working under the table & surviving on charity.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09 ... s-vineyard
The Dem's Open Border tsunami is a far cry from our past legal immigration patterns.

Nope, I have multiple times, including directly above, said that when there is a rapid change in population investments need to be made to handle housing, healthcare, education and other increased demands. These are typically addressed by local and state. By local I mean whatever taxing and bond issuance authority. In Maryland, for instance, that’s by county. This surge has happened over a decade. Invited and increasing economic activity.

8,000 new jobs occupied by Haitians supporting a lot of families. With economic ripple effects positively impacting businesses and employment around the board. Paying taxes and reversing economic decline.

Did the local and state governments issue bonds? Or did they ignore the needs until acute?
Why look to federal assistance when you don’t need to?
There’s already substantial federal assistance.

Food stamps are indeed federal dollars as is Medicaid, so don’t vote against such supports, right?

Don’t vote against infrastructure spending, rather apply for such dollars for new roads and schools.

We’ve had enormous past immigration waves, we just didn’t call them “illegal”. Communities transformed by influxes of migrants, towns literally created by migrants arrivals. Often speaking different languages. From Scandinavia , Germany, Italy…on and on…And sure, nativism often reared its ugly head.

And again, the Haitians who Trump and Vance and Ramaswamy and you are calling illegal are here legally, just as legally as your and my ancestors.

Just different pigment.

This is another version of the federal government forcing unfunded mandate spending on the states. The US government opens these folks in with open arms. The US government then dictates what the states must be forced to do to accommodate their new guests. In the meantime US States can hardly deal with the burden of their own homeless populations. If the government wants these new guests to feel welcome, then pony up some money to the states to accommodate your desires.

Clearly you don’t understand the situation of Springfield. The town was struggling, like many such midwestern towns. They invited the Haitians a decade ago to come and matched that with small employers needing workers, then larger employers opened facilities, especially manufacturing and distribution. This was an economic revival plan. The Haitians kept coming as they knew others had found work and the cycle of growth continued.

What should have happened was a bond vote supporting infrastructure like roads and schools, supported by the growing tax base. But voters often delay such, voting down those sorts of bonds, typically in knee jerk reaction. Especially Republican voters. Understandable because they assume higher taxes will be needed to pay for this, higher real estate taxes…in the meantime their property values rise a lot due to increased demand, a good thing generally to wealth creation, but it also can mean higher assessments. So, voters often balk…Republican legislators often balk…though they like the growth dynamic much better than the decline.

The US government didn’t force Springfield or Ohio to invite these legal immigrants. That was a decision made and continuing to be made by a struggling town and state post financial collapse, a rust belt revival strategy.

Which isn’t to say that I disagree with the notion of the federal system (federal taxpayers) providing funds for states and local jurisdictions to deploy to their specific needs. But we didn’t do Any of that between 2016 and 2020. Despite many “infrastructure weeks”.

But the bipartisan infrastructure act now sends huge amounts of funding to states to deploy to meet their infrastructure needs. Governor DeWine has just committed a chunk of support to Springfield…could that, should that, have happened sooner? Sure seems like yes.

Springfield isn't that much different than any other number of American cities dealing with a large number of invited guests to America. My own city is no different. The only difference is the large number of invited guests have been dispersed anonymously to places unknown to local residents. To my understanding the majority of these invited guests were overflow from the deluge of people NYC could not handle. NYC and NYS we have been told are provided reimbursement for food and housing. Sadly here locally our city is struggling mightily to deal with our problem with homelessness. No understanding that our beloved federal government is providing any direct funding to assist. I know that because if they were Senator Chuck Schumer would have showed up locally with his government checkbook in hand.

Ok, we were talking specifically about Springfield and Ohio, but I understand that you would prefer to talk about your community and New York State.

What are the details of homelessness in your community? Is that mostly immigrants or is it mostly underemployed relative to cost of housing ? Homelessness is nationally a problem of the latter, an issue of lack of affordable housing and on the edge employment revenue that can so easily be disrupted by a health care interruption or cost, addiction or other disruption. Single moms subjected to sexual harassment…a whole lot of homelessness is families who had a place to live recently, but that was disrupted.

What federal policies would be most helpful to reduce homelessness?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Baloney. In what other surge of immigrants, legal or undocumented, has there ever been federal funding?.

This community was on its heels, and sought the inbound migration, welcomed and have benefited hugely from the upsurge in economic activity.

Sure, this also means a need to increase housing infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. And that’s typically funded by local and state government, whatever the source of growth.

But we were having a discussion about the lies being told by Trump and Vance, from claims about pets to huge falsehoods about “illegal aliens”.

That shifted to your dismissal of a poster’s family experience with bigotry against immigrants, your claim that his family were “legal”, which I then pointed out is also the status of the Haitians who Trump and Vance are claiming are “illegal”. You tried to rebut with a claim that I can’t prove 100% are legal status though that was never at issue as they are claiming all illegal…now up to 32,000. You then tried to pretend that the NYT also didn’t claim 100%, just most. Yup. But that’s the opposite of Trump and Vance.

You want to ignore the Republican governor and Republican mayor. What, are they RINOs too?

You just dodge the reality on the ground & default to your tedious TDS rants.

From Springfield, I hear the Governor & Mayor asking for the same thing their counterparts in Aurora, CO are asking for.

Give us another example of a small city being inundated with a 25% surge in population of unassimilated migrants who don't speak the language & need housing assistance, health care & food stamps before they can even get a minimum wage job to begin to partially support themselves & their families.
Migrants who don't even speak Spanish, the most readily available ESL resource option.

Martha's Vineyard couldn't even accommodate 50 Venezuelan migrants looking for work without calling in the National Guard to remove them & house them on a military base. They're still in MA, working under the table & surviving on charity.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09 ... s-vineyard
The Dem's Open Border tsunami is a far cry from our past legal immigration patterns.

Nope, I have multiple times, including directly above, said that when there is a rapid change in population investments need to be made to handle housing, healthcare, education and other increased demands. These are typically addressed by local and state. By local I mean whatever taxing and bond issuance authority. In Maryland, for instance, that’s by county. This surge has happened over a decade. Invited and increasing economic activity.

8,000 new jobs occupied by Haitians supporting a lot of families. With economic ripple effects positively impacting businesses and employment around the board. Paying taxes and reversing economic decline.

Did the local and state governments issue bonds? Or did they ignore the needs until acute?
Why look to federal assistance when you don’t need to?
There’s already substantial federal assistance.

Food stamps are indeed federal dollars as is Medicaid, so don’t vote against such supports, right?

Don’t vote against infrastructure spending, rather apply for such dollars for new roads and schools.

We’ve had enormous past immigration waves, we just didn’t call them “illegal”. Communities transformed by influxes of migrants, towns literally created by migrants arrivals. Often speaking different languages. From Scandinavia , Germany, Italy…on and on…And sure, nativism often reared its ugly head.

And again, the Haitians who Trump and Vance and Ramaswamy and you are calling illegal are here legally, just as legally as your and my ancestors.

Just different pigment.

This is another version of the federal government forcing unfunded mandate spending on the states. The US government opens these folks in with open arms. The US government then dictates what the states must be forced to do to accommodate their new guests. In the meantime US States can hardly deal with the burden of their own homeless populations. If the government wants these new guests to feel welcome, then pony up some money to the states to accommodate your desires.

Clearly you don’t understand the situation of Springfield. The town was struggling, like many such midwestern towns. They invited the Haitians a decade ago to come and matched that with small employers needing workers, then larger employers opened facilities, especially manufacturing and distribution. This was an economic revival plan. The Haitians kept coming as they knew others had found work and the cycle of growth continued.

What should have happened was a bond vote supporting infrastructure like roads and schools, supported by the growing tax base. But voters often delay such, voting down those sorts of bonds, typically in knee jerk reaction. Especially Republican voters. Understandable because they assume higher taxes will be needed to pay for this, higher real estate taxes…in the meantime their property values rise a lot due to increased demand, a good thing generally to wealth creation, but it also can mean higher assessments. So, voters often balk…Republican legislators often balk…though they like the growth dynamic much better than the decline.

The US government didn’t force Springfield or Ohio to invite these legal immigrants. That was a decision made and continuing to be made by a struggling town and state post financial collapse, a rust belt revival strategy.

Which isn’t to say that I disagree with the notion of the federal system (federal taxpayers) providing funds for states and local jurisdictions to deploy to their specific needs. But we didn’t do Any of that between 2016 and 2020. Despite many “infrastructure weeks”.

But the bipartisan infrastructure act now sends huge amounts of funding to states to deploy to meet their infrastructure needs. Governor DeWine has just committed a chunk of support to Springfield…could that, should that, have happened sooner? Sure seems like yes.

Springfield isn't that much different than any other number of American cities dealing with a large number of invited guests to America. My own city is no different. The only difference is the large number of invited guests have been dispersed anonymously to places unknown to local residents. To my understanding the majority of these invited guests were overflow from the deluge of people NYC could not handle. NYC and NYS we have been told are provided reimbursement for food and housing. Sadly here locally our city is struggling mightily to deal with our problem with homelessness. No understanding that our beloved federal government is providing any direct funding to assist. I know that because if they were Senator Chuck Schumer would have showed up locally with his government checkbook in hand.

Ok, we were talking specifically about Springfield and Ohio, but I understand that you would prefer to talk about your community and New York State.

What are the details of homelessness in your community? Is that mostly immigrants or is it mostly underemployed relative to cost of housing ? Homelessness is nationally a problem of the latter, an issue of lack of affordable housing and on the edge employment revenue that can so easily be disrupted by a health care interruption or cost, addiction or other disruption. Single moms subjected to sexual harassment…a whole lot of homelessness is families who had a place to live recently, but that was disrupted.

What federal policies would be most helpful to reduce homelessness?

https://rochesterbeacon.com/2024/05/09/ ... r-economy/

The immigrants are doing the same in Springfield. Filling an economic need.

Like the rest of New York, Rochester is facing an aging workforce and outmigration crisis, which has led to a decline in the city’s workforce participation—sitting at 60 percent, below pre-pandemic levels, according to the most recent figures from 2022.

[OCanada]

There is a national need for immigrants in the labor force. Same ol same ol Attack the “other”

[a fan]

Baloney. In what other surge of immigrants, legal or undocumented, has there ever been federal funding?.

This community was on its heels, and sought the inbound migration, welcomed and have benefited hugely from the upsurge in economic activity.

Sure, this also means a need to increase housing infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. And that’s typically funded by local and state government, whatever the source of growth.

But we were having a discussion about the lies being told by Trump and Vance, from claims about pets to huge falsehoods about “illegal aliens”.

That shifted to your dismissal of a poster’s family experience with bigotry against immigrants, your claim that his family were “legal”, which I then pointed out is also the status of the Haitians who Trump and Vance are claiming are “illegal”. You tried to rebut with a claim that I can’t prove 100% are legal status though that was never at issue as they are claiming all illegal…now up to 32,000. You then tried to pretend that the NYT also didn’t claim 100%, just most. Yup. But that’s the opposite of Trump and Vance.

You want to ignore the Republican governor and Republican mayor. What, are they RINOs too?

You just dodge the reality on the ground & default to your tedious TDS rants.

From Springfield, I hear the Governor & Mayor asking for the same thing their counterparts in Aurora, CO are asking for.

Give us another example of a small city being inundated with a 25% surge in population of unassimilated migrants who don't speak the language & need housing assistance, health care & food stamps before they can even get a minimum wage job to begin to partially support themselves & their families.
Migrants who don't even speak Spanish, the most readily available ESL resource option.

Martha's Vineyard couldn't even accommodate 50 Venezuelan migrants looking for work without calling in the National Guard to remove them & house them on a military base. They're still in MA, working under the table & surviving on charity.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09 ... s-vineyard
The Dem's Open Border tsunami is a far cry from our past legal immigration patterns.

Nope, I have multiple times, including directly above, said that when there is a rapid change in population investments need to be made to handle housing, healthcare, education and other increased demands. These are typically addressed by local and state. By local I mean whatever taxing and bond issuance authority. In Maryland, for instance, that’s by county. This surge has happened over a decade. Invited and increasing economic activity.

8,000 new jobs occupied by Haitians supporting a lot of families. With economic ripple effects positively impacting businesses and employment around the board. Paying taxes and reversing economic decline.

Did the local and state governments issue bonds? Or did they ignore the needs until acute?
Why look to federal assistance when you don’t need to?
There’s already substantial federal assistance.

Food stamps are indeed federal dollars as is Medicaid, so don’t vote against such supports, right?

Don’t vote against infrastructure spending, rather apply for such dollars for new roads and schools.

We’ve had enormous past immigration waves, we just didn’t call them “illegal”. Communities transformed by influxes of migrants, towns literally created by migrants arrivals. Often speaking different languages. From Scandinavia , Germany, Italy…on and on…And sure, nativism often reared its ugly head.

And again, the Haitians who Trump and Vance and Ramaswamy and you are calling illegal are here legally, just as legally as your and my ancestors.

Just different pigment.

This is another version of the federal government forcing unfunded mandate spending on the states. The US government opens these folks in with open arms. The US government then dictates what the states must be forced to do to accommodate their new guests. In the meantime US States can hardly deal with the burden of their own homeless populations. If the government wants these new guests to feel welcome, then pony up some money to the states to accommodate your desires.

Both you and Old Salt are complaining about a lack of Federal funding. Congress does that, not the POTUS. Congress is the group that's failing here.

[CU88a]

Baloney. In what other surge of immigrants, legal or undocumented, has there ever been federal funding?.

This community was on its heels, and sought the inbound migration, welcomed and have benefited hugely from the upsurge in economic activity.

Sure, this also means a need to increase housing infrastructure, education, healthcare etc. And that’s typically funded by local and state government, whatever the source of growth.

But we were having a discussion about the lies being told by Trump and Vance, from claims about pets to huge falsehoods about “illegal aliens”.

That shifted to your dismissal of a poster’s family experience with bigotry against immigrants, your claim that his family were “legal”, which I then pointed out is also the status of the Haitians who Trump and Vance are claiming are “illegal”. You tried to rebut with a claim that I can’t prove 100% are legal status though that was never at issue as they are claiming all illegal…now up to 32,000. You then tried to pretend that the NYT also didn’t claim 100%, just most. Yup. But that’s the opposite of Trump and Vance.

You want to ignore the Republican governor and Republican mayor. What, are they RINOs too?

You just dodge the reality on the ground & default to your tedious TDS rants.

From Springfield, I hear the Governor & Mayor asking for the same thing their counterparts in Aurora, CO are asking for.

Give us another example of a small city being inundated with a 25% surge in population of unassimilated migrants who don't speak the language & need housing assistance, health care & food stamps before they can even get a minimum wage job to begin to partially support themselves & their families.
Migrants who don't even speak Spanish, the most readily available ESL resource option.

Martha's Vineyard couldn't even accommodate 50 Venezuelan migrants looking for work without calling in the National Guard to remove them & house them on a military base. They're still in MA, working under the table & surviving on charity.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-09 ... s-vineyard
The Dem's Open Border tsunami is a far cry from our past legal immigration patterns.

From the Ohio Gov:

Opinion
Guest Essay

I’m the Republican Governor of Ohio. Here Is the Truth About Springfield.
Sept. 20, 2024

By Mike DeWine

Mr. DeWine, a Republican, is the governor of Ohio.

I was born in Springfield, Ohio. My wife, Fran, and I have lived our entire lives less than 10 miles from this city.

When we were dating in high school, we would go there to see movies at the Regent or State Theater or to eat fried clams at Howard Johnson’s. I remember Fran taking the bus about eight miles from our hometown, Yellow Springs, to Springfield to shop at Wren’s Department Store. Over the years, we’ve eaten countless doughnuts from Schuler’s Bakery, worshiped at St. Raphael Catholic Church and we logged many work hours there when I represented Springfield in the U.S. House and Senate.

Springfield has a rich history of providing refuge for the oppressed and being a place of opportunity. As a stop on the Underground Railroad, the Gammon House, which still stands, was a safe haven for escaped slaves seeking freedom. And, as a stop on the Old National Road, America’s first east/west federal highway, Springfield attracted many settlers both before and after the Civil War. Immigrants from Ireland, Greece, Germany, Italy and other countries helped build the city into what it is today.

For a long time, commerce and manufacturing flourished in Springfield, which earned the title “Champion City” after the founding there of the agriculture implement giant Champion Machine Company.

But the city hit tough times in the 1980s and 1990s, falling into serious economic decline as manufacturing, rail commerce and good-paying jobs dwindled. Now, however, Springfield is having a resurgence in manufacturing and job creation. Some of that is thanks to the dramatic influx of Haitian migrants who have arrived in the city over the past three years to fill jobs.

They are there legally. They are there to work.

It is disappointing to me that Springfield has become the epicenter of vitriol over America’s immigration policy, because it has long been a community of great diversity. Fran and I were reminded of this when we attended Mass at St. Raphael this past Sunday and stopped at the nearby Groceryland on our way home. We talked with community members from many backgrounds who are understandably concerned about the negative things being said about their city in news reports and on social media.

Bomb threats — all hoaxes — continue and temporarily closed at least two schools, put the hospital on lockdown and shuttered City Hall. The two local colleges have gone remote. I have posted Ohio Highway Patrol troopers in each school building in Springfield so the schools can remain open, teachers and children can feel safe and students can continue to learn. On the troopers’ first day in the schools, Fran and I visited Simon Kenton Elementary, where reassured teachers told us: “Yesterday was rough. Today was a good day.”

As a supporter of former President Donald Trump and Senator JD Vance, I am saddened by how they and others continue to repeat claims that lack evidence and disparage the legal migrants living in Springfield. This rhetoric hurts the city and its people, and it hurts those who have spent their lives there.

The Biden administration’s failure to control the southern border is a very important issue that Mr. Trump and Mr. Vance are talking about and one that the American people are rightfully deeply concerned about. But their verbal attacks against these Haitians — who are legally present in the United States — dilute and cloud what should be a winning argument about the border.

The Springfield I know is not the one you hear about in social media rumors. It is a city made up of good, decent, welcoming people. They are hard workers — both those who were born in this country and those who settled here because, back in their birthplace, Haiti, innocent people can be killed just for cheering on the wrong team in a soccer match.

Only about a two-hour flight from U.S. shores, Haiti is one of the poorest, most dangerous places on earth. The government is in shambles, with machete-wielding, machine-gun-toting gang members taking over 80 percent of the capital, Port-au-Prince.

Fran and I first traveled to Haiti almost 30 years ago as part of a congressional delegation when I was serving on the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. We have since been there over 20 times and have supported a Catholic priest who runs a tuition-free school in a slum in Port-au-Prince.

We have always been amazed when, even in the poorest areas of Haiti, we see children coming out of homes made of rusting corrugated metal and cardboard with shoes shined and clothes neat and pressed. We know that the Haitian people want the same things we all want — a good job, the chance to get a quality education and the ability to raise a family in a safe and secure environment. Haitian migrants have gone to Springfield because of the jobs and chance for a better life there.

On Monday, I met with Springfield manufacturing business owners who employ Haitians. As one of them told me, his business would not have been able to stay open after the pandemic but for the Haitians who filled the jobs.

There have been language barriers and cultural differences, but these Haitians come to work every day, are fitting in with co-workers and have become valuable employees. As a teenager working in my parents’ seed company, I worked with the guys loading seed bags onto trucks and boxcars. Their acceptance of a co-worker depended on if they thought the person was pulling his own weight. What is happening today in these companies in Springfield with the Haitian employees is no different.

At the same time, the sudden surge in population has created challenges that no city could anticipate or prepare for. The health care system, housing market and school classrooms have been strained. There is a desperate need for more Haitian Creole translators. And ensuring that Haitians learn how to drive safely and understand our driving customs and traffic laws remains a top priority.

These are the real challenges. Mayor Rob Rue; the City Council; the county commission president, Melanie Flax Wilt; and others have been working tirelessly on these issues, and we are assisting them at the state level.

Fran and I have met with so many other dedicated people in Springfield, many of them teachers or volunteers from nonprofits and the faith-based community, who are doing the Lord’s work each day, teaching English to children who speak only Creole or Spanish or helping those who need health care, whether a new Haitian immigrant or someone whose family has been in Springfield for generations.

Their work will continue long after this fall’s election is over and the national spotlight turns away from Springfield. But in the meantime, our people and our history deserve better than to be falsely portrayed.

This isn’t just personal for a lot of us; it’s about our pride in America. When four of the nation’s biggest railroads built the Big Four Train Depot in Springfield, the city became a hub for passenger and express rail, with an average of 3,000 freight cars and 40 passenger trains speeding through the city daily in the mid-1920s. Located downtown, the Depot became the perfect campaign whistle stop for politicians. In 1960, when I was 13 years old, my parents and I went to see the Republican candidate for president, Richard Nixon, when his train came through Springfield, and four years later to see Barry Goldwater as his train also stopped in the middle of Springfield as he traveled across the Midwest. They both talked about the prospects for the future.

Springfield today has a very bright future. The people who live there love their families, value education, work hard, care about one another and tackle the challenges they face head-on, just as they have done for over 200 years.

I am proud of this community, and America should be, too.








p.s. - Gov. Mike DeWine announced last week that the state would provide Springfield with $2.5 million to ease strains on primary health care and would deploy members of the state highway patrol to improve road safety.

[a fan]

The Dem's Open Border tsunami is a far cry from our past legal immigration patterns.

Right. Sell your fear and hate somewhere else.

"legal immigration patterns". Still not one single solitary complaint about Visa overstays. 3 of the 9/11 wankers were Visa overstays. Whoops.

42% of the ~11 million illegal workers in the US are tagged as visa overstays. Allllllll that financial cost, and you and your hate-filled buddies can't even PRETEND to care.

Why? Because you can't blame the Dems for it, and you can't sell the hate and fear the way you can with the "brown people" coming from the South.

Sweet. But sure, you're worried about the law, and an influx of those who can't legally work straining the system.

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/homesec/R47848.pdf

[WaffleTwineFaceoff]

Pardon the interruption.

This past Wednesday the Committee on Homeland Security held a hearing. Just shy of three hours viewing time.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?538496-1/ ... der-policy

Chairman's summary statement begins 2:43.

I found Mr. Heitke's segments to be quite illuminating. 25 years on the front lines over 5 administrations. His opening statement begins at 20:37.

Fwiw.

[a fan]

Pardon the interruption.

This past Wednesday the Committee on Homeland Security held a hearing. Just shy of three hours viewing time.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?538496-1/ ... der-policy

Chairman's summary statement begins 2:43.

I found Mr. Heitke's segments to be quite illuminating. 25 years on the front lines over 5 administrations. His opening statement begins at 20:37.

Fwiw.

Listened to his summary.

Why don’t you give us five things you got from him. What did you hear?

[MDlaxfan76]

JD, JD…

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/20/politics ... index.html

[OCanada]

Vance lies exposed by county attorney

https://www.rawstory.com/jd-vance-sprin ... 669244546/