a fan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 7:20 pm
Nice piece on why America's dumbest support Trump.
And please, make the argument that million of Americans aren't idiots..... you can't.
Because to a person, Republicans openly rail against our educational failures. So you have to pick a lane: either our k-12 is stellar, no problems, and produce smart Americans......or our k-12 is garbage for middle and poor America, and we're turning out idiots as a result.
It's why they choose tinfoilhats over logic, and "some guy on the internet" over easier-than-ever to find facts.
You know I have a lot threshold/tolerance for casual and lazy stupidity that is in abundance. But let’s not ignore the there’s a form of psychological warfare the political class and its surrogates are engaging on the public, 24/7. That aspect shouldn’t be ignored despite the intolerable unjustifiable inability to process information appropriately and comprehend things communicated to them/
Agreed
Agreed.
It's Carlin's theory on keeping the rabble stupid and malleable. No matter how many times I say that we should use America's overwhelming GDP to drop two teachers and 15 kids max per classroom? I know our leaders will NEVER EVER do it.
We stopped treating the world as something we need to compete with when the Wall fell all those years ago....and even then we we JUST starting to educated anyone besides white men.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 8:52 pm
One can argue that the scales have shifted too far left with the rise of super liberal/progressiveness.......
Make your case. I disagree 100%. We are SO far to the right of every other 1st world nation, it's not even a close call.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 8:52 pm
One can argue that the scales have shifted too far left with the rise of super liberal/progressiveness.......
Make your case. I disagree 100%. We are SO far to the right of every other 1st world nation, it's not even a close call.
Too far left means you can’t slur people, drag queens read at public libraries and there is a push for equal employment, education and housing opportunities for all Americans……what is too far left for basic Christian principles?
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 8:52 pm
One can argue that the scales have shifted too far left with the rise of super liberal/progressiveness.......
Make your case. I disagree 100%. We are SO far to the right of every other 1st world nation, it's not even a close call.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 8:52 pm
One can argue that the scales have shifted too far left with the rise of super liberal/progressiveness.......
Make your case. I disagree 100%. We are SO far to the right of every other 1st world nation, it's not even a close call.
Butler is quite the peace of work herself. Jesus must be happy when Christians have to quibble amongst themselves?
Too far left means you can’t slur people, drag queens read at public libraries and there is a push for equal employment, education and housing opportunities for all Americans……what is too far left for basic Christian principles?
You are free to slur people if your a WLP Democrat. Didn't you get the memo? Which Christian principles are you speaking of? Kamala has a spiritual advisor who complains about other Christians " stealing her Bible"
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 8:52 pm
One can argue that the scales have shifted too far left with the rise of super liberal/progressiveness.......
Make your case. I disagree 100%. We are SO far to the right of every other 1st world nation, it's not even a close call.
...I should have added " One can argue that the scales have shifted too far left with the rise of super liberal/progressiveness and too far right, especially as the middle class has shrunk over the past few decades",
This as you know, is a sociological discussion, with moving parts over decades.....my broader argument was that the middleclass went dormant and down in size, as the middle of a rubber band does when stretched. And that rubber band does not need equal "pulling' on both sides the entire time. One side can be anchored while the other is pulled, and next time the other side pulls...the end result is the same; a weakened elasticity that risks failure.
You and me are often pulling that rubber band from opposing sides, and yet, we have so much in common that often gets lost while quibbling over a singular issue. Prime example is this instance, you only cited one small part of my entire post to quibble with....does that mean you agreed with the rest of it, some it, none of it? Only grabbing a snip of the conversation leaves one wondering.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 8:52 pm
One can argue that the scales have shifted too far left with the rise of super liberal/progressiveness.......
Make your case. I disagree 100%. We are SO far to the right of every other 1st world nation, it's not even a close call.
Butler is quite the peace of work herself. Jesus must be happy when Christians have to quibble amongst themselves?
Too far left means you can’t slur people, drag queens read at public libraries and there is a push for equal employment, education and housing opportunities for all Americans……what is too far left for basic Christian principles?
You are free to slur people if your a WLP Democrat. Didn't you get the memo? Which Christian principles are you speaking of? Kamala has a spiritual advisor who complains about other Christians " stealing her Bible"
Is this the latest Maga echo-chamber talking point? Moving beyond the vapid "gotcha" minutia, the statement about "too far left" begs the question of what alternative the Maga folks seem to be offering. A time before abortions were legal? A time before the Constitution was written stipulating the separation of church and state? For better or worse, time marches on, while the "make America great again" phrase sure seems like an impossible promise to turn back the calendar to the 1950s when the US economy was at its relative world peak. Problem is, Maga trickle-down "voodoo economics" (as Poppy Bush called them) only serve to worsen the plight of the working and middle classes, so the Maga hope is that those harmed by R economic policies will focus more on this divisive culture war against "cat women" and other non-existent enemies and fellow US citizens treated as enemies for the sake of Maga political (and ginancial) gain.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 8:52 pm
One can argue that the scales have shifted too far left with the rise of super liberal/progressiveness.......
Make your case. I disagree 100%. We are SO far to the right of every other 1st world nation, it's not even a close call.
Butler is quite the peace of work herself. Jesus must be happy when Christians have to quibble amongst themselves?
Too far left means you can’t slur people, drag queens read at public libraries and there is a push for equal employment, education and housing opportunities for all Americans……what is too far left for basic Christian principles?
You are free to slur people if your a WLP Democrat. Didn't you get the memo? Which Christian principles are you speaking of? Kamala has a spiritual advisor who complains about other Christians " stealing her Bible"
Is this the latest Maga echo-chamber talking point? Moving beyond the vapid "gotcha" minutia, the statement about "too far left" begs the question of what alternative the Maga folks seem to be offering. A time before abortions were legal? A time before the Constitution was written stipulating the separation of church and state? For better or worse, time marches on, while the "make America great again" phrase sure seems like an impossible promise to turn back the calendar to the 1950s when the US economy was at its relative world peak. Problem is, Maga trickle-down "voodoo economics" (as Poppy Bush called them) only serve to worsen the plight of the working and middle classes, so the Maga hope is that those harmed by R economic policies will focus more on this divisive culture war against "cat women" and other non-existent enemies and fellow US citizens treated as enemies for the sake of Maga political (and ginancial) gain.
So this is nothing more on your part than defending your side for your own moral deficiencies. Get real my friend, divisiveness is the rule of law for both parties. You don't have to like but is reality. Nice people don't necessarily win elections at the national level.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
This is all wrong. People who believe School shootings and spree killings are just a small price to pay for the right to own any conceivable weapon designed to kill more people in less time will stand on the right side of history. It is what our founding fathers wanted.
a fan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 7:20 pm
Nice piece on why America's dumbest support Trump.
And please, make the argument that million of Americans aren't idiots..... you can't.
Because to a person, Republicans openly rail against our educational failures. So you have to pick a lane: either our k-12 is stellar, no problems, and produce smart Americans......or our k-12 is garbage for middle and poor America, and we're turning out idiots as a result.
It's why they choose tinfoilhats over logic, and "some guy on the internet" over easier-than-ever to find facts.
It almost sounds like you agree with RFK here? And, that the middle class, the cohort you say has been chopped off at the knee caps, need to go away, not fight as they are, and vanish completely? It almost seems like a bait and switch tactic or that the parties are crossing paths, as RFK states.
It explains why people like MDlax and I are dying on the vine of the traditional republican party, and identify so closely with the majority of the center democratic party/ liberal leaning on many topics; many have stayed center. One can argue that the scales have shifted too far left with the rise of super liberal/progressiveness, especially as the middle class has shrunk over the past few decades, and the R-Party under Trump are capitalizing on the middle class that faded off into the sunset and were silent for so long just accepting that what they had to say was futile.
Had it been someone like Hogan or Kasich pushing the "MAGA" fundamental principles in 2016 of no war, NATO fair sharing financials, Manufacturing, China tariffs, simplifying red tape for businesses, border position, etc......without the J6, midnight tweeting, name calling, we can argue a completely different state of 2024.
The juxtaposition is not IQ, tinfoilhat, IMO....its that very-old middle class that was dying off, now bubbling to the surface.
I saw the challenge a fan and others had with you re "too far left" and thought best to come back to your original post. I see why they asked what you meant, because I don't think there's any evidence at all that the country OR the Dem Party have "shifted too far left to super/liberal leaning". So, I don't see any legitimacy to such a claim...albeit, sure, a whole lot of people, largely informed by Fox News and their barber shop conversations think so and the MAGA crowd play hard to it.
Why? Because the country is indeed moving socially more progressive, more inclusive, as a younger generation's values come into greater influence. Not "too far left" as compared to most all of our peer democracies, but yes, "more left". I've cited the studies that tie especially the rapid, seemingly sudden, acceptance of gay marriage as the biggest social shock of the past 20 years. Others have included as a "shock" the reality of a black man as President. Others include the shift in women's roles and their demands for respect in all sorts of ways to have been a "shock" as well. There's clearly a backlash to such social progress.
We also know that migration surges have been a major source of right wing nationalist populism across western democracies, easily manipulated by racist, nativist grifters as an Enemy or Other with Great Replacement Theory rhetoric...but it's indeed a reality politically and people, whether rightly or wrongly, are afeared of "change".
Where I'm not following you is the sense of equivalence between "middle class" and center, moderate values and the notion that a shrinking middle class, with more extreme, concentrated wealth separating "middle class" from "upper", is why moderate, center right and center left values are disappearing with them. I get that there's resentment of how important educational attainment has become in economic stratification, but does that also explain the racial divide, the gender divide as well? Is there perceived threat of racial and gender advancement through education obviating the roles that white men have traditionally enjoyed?
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 8:52 pm
One can argue that the scales have shifted too far left with the rise of super liberal/progressiveness.......
Make your case. I disagree 100%. We are SO far to the right of every other 1st world nation, it's not even a close call.
...I should have added " One can argue that the scales have shifted too far left with the rise of super liberal/progressiveness and too far right, especially as the middle class has shrunk over the past few decades",
This as you know, is a sociological discussion, with moving parts over decades.....my broader argument was that the middleclass went dormant and down in size, as the middle of a rubber band does when stretched. And that rubber band does not need equal "pulling' on both sides the entire time. One side can be anchored while the other is pulled, and next time the other side pulls...the end result is the same; a weakened elasticity that risks failure.
Yes. This, as ggait and others have agreed, is the theme of the forum....how do we repair what Reagan started dismantling, and B Clinton Obama and Biden accelerated?
This is what I mean by: we are SO far to the right of other nations. No health care, flimsy safety net, powerless unions..and too few of them, lack of education investment, absurdly expensive university, no funding for vocational training, etc.
The left has ZERO power in America, outside of literally a handful of cities, and one single State....California.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 7:58 am
You and me are often pulling that rubber band from opposing sides, and yet, we have so much in common that often gets lost while quibbling over a singular issue.
Yes! We're in the center right/left depending on the issue. You're correct.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 7:58 am
....does that mean you agreed with the rest of it, some it, none of it? Only grabbing a snip of the conversation leaves one wondering.
Yes! I agreed with the rest, and should have said so, that's on me.
what he's saying on the stump is WAY more aggressive and angry.
(also rambling and disjointed, often boring, and then super aggressive in spurts of anger...)
On fundraising, both sites ask for money and volunteers aggressively...I found this bit posted by the Trump Campaign to be interesting:
what he's saying on the stump is WAY more aggressive and angry.
(also rambling and disjointed, often boring, and then super aggressive in spurts of anger...)
On fundraising, both sites ask for money and volunteers aggressively...I found this bit posted by the Trump Campaign to be interesting:
Still nothing about the long term gains. As far as everyone believes, she is still ~doubling long term cap games on everyone that sells their home or whatever else falls in that category. Which was the Biden/Harris original plan, Ive read excerpts she has now pivoted...but nothing on her website about any of it.....other than no tax change if you are under 400k, is it assumed that includes the long-term cap gains?
KELLY: So Trump keeps distancing himself. Has it worked? Are people buying it?
ORDOÑEZ: Well, I mean, it is true that this is not Trump's plan, but it is a plan for Trump. I mean, one way I look at it is it's taking Trump's policy goals - the one he talks about on the stump all the time - and creates a legal roadmap to execute them.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
what he's saying on the stump is WAY more aggressive and angry.
(also rambling and disjointed, often boring, and then super aggressive in spurts of anger...)
On fundraising, both sites ask for money and volunteers aggressively...I found this bit posted by the Trump Campaign to be interesting:
Still nothing about the long term gains. As far as everyone believes, she is still ~doubling long term cap games on everyone that sells their home or whatever else falls in that category. Which was the Biden/Harris original plan, Ive read excerpts she has now pivoted...but nothing on her website about any of it.....other than no tax change if you are under 400k, is it assumed that includes the long-term cap gains?
KELLY: So Trump keeps distancing himself. Has it worked? Are people buying it?
ORDOÑEZ: Well, I mean, it is true that this is not Trump's plan, but it is a plan for Trump. I mean, one way I look at it is it's taking Trump's policy goals - the one he talks about on the stump all the time - and creates a legal roadmap to execute them.
I don't see it as disingenuous at all. Trump's people are deeply involved and they're all on the short lists for positions in the next Admin. It mirrors what he's been saying on the stump, though he flits around on some things.
No, not true on "everyone believes"...I think we'll see exemptions on certain kinds of gains and levels of taxpayers. Pretty obvious to me.
This is what her website says:
Under her plan, the tax rate on long-term capital gains for those earning a million dollars a year or more will be 28 percent, because when the government encourages investment, it leads to broad-based economic growth and creates jobs, which makes our economy stronger.
what he's saying on the stump is WAY more aggressive and angry.
(also rambling and disjointed, often boring, and then super aggressive in spurts of anger...)
On fundraising, both sites ask for money and volunteers aggressively...I found this bit posted by the Trump Campaign to be interesting:
Still nothing about the long term gains. As far as everyone believes, she is still ~doubling long term cap games on everyone that sells their home or whatever else falls in that category. Which was the Biden/Harris original plan, Ive read excerpts she has now pivoted...but nothing on her website about any of it.....other than no tax change if you are under 400k, is it assumed that includes the long-term cap gains?
KELLY: So Trump keeps distancing himself. Has it worked? Are people buying it?
ORDOÑEZ: Well, I mean, it is true that this is not Trump's plan, but it is a plan for Trump. I mean, one way I look at it is it's taking Trump's policy goals - the one he talks about on the stump all the time - and creates a legal roadmap to execute them.
I don't see it as disingenuous at all. Trump's people are deeply involved and they're all on the short lists for positions in the next Admin. It mirrors what he's been saying on the stump, though he flits around on some things.
No, not true on "everyone believes"...I think we'll see exemptions on certain kinds of gains and levels of taxpayers. Pretty obvious to me.
This is what her website says:
Under her plan, the tax rate on long-term capital gains for those earning a million dollars a year or more will be 28 percent, because when the government encourages investment, it leads to broad-based economic growth and creates jobs, which makes our economy stronger.
Like I have said, we have peasants fighting for the gentry and ruling classes now:
People that may be old and out of touch with reality probably don’t realize this is taking place in upstate NY where far left progressives are taking the state of NY down the tubes.
I wonder if the libs had anything to do with this or if it was all private money from soup to nuts?
a fan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 7:20 pm
Nice piece on why America's dumbest support Trump.
And please, make the argument that million of Americans aren't idiots..... you can't.
Because to a person, Republicans openly rail against our educational failures. So you have to pick a lane: either our k-12 is stellar, no problems, and produce smart Americans......or our k-12 is garbage for middle and poor America, and we're turning out idiots as a result.
It's why they choose tinfoilhats over logic, and "some guy on the internet" over easier-than-ever to find facts.
You know I have a lot threshold/tolerance for casual and lazy stupidity that is in abundance. But let’s not ignore the there’s a form of psychological warfare the political class and its surrogates are engaging on the public, 24/7. That aspect shouldn’t be ignored despite the intolerable unjustifiable inability to process information appropriately and comprehend things communicated to them/
People are being manipulated and they are walking around saying “the media doesn’t tell me what to think”… It’s absurd. I love seeing people parrot political propaganda.
Only don’t know if we can solve that problem “bottom up” which appears to be the consensus approach to this issue given the lack of focus on those efforts to manipulate.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
