cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:22 am
Well Hamas has continued to advocate for the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with a perspective such as that? Judging by the actions that Hamas has taken they should be taken at their word. I believe Israel is and should be highly skeptical of ever negotiating with Hamas. I believe Hamas will never have any intention of negotiating in good faith.
And Israel has the intention of negotiating in good faith? That's a good one man.
Both sides want the destruction of the other. The right wing (currently in power) in Israel has said that many imes. So how do you negotiate long term in the face of both sides wanting to rule from the river to the sea?
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:22 am
Well Hamas has continued to advocate for the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with a perspective such as that? Judging by the actions that Hamas has taken they should be taken at their word. I believe Israel is and should be highly skeptical of ever negotiating with Hamas. I believe Hamas will never have any intention of negotiating in good faith.
And Israel has the intention of negotiating in good faith? That's a good one man.
Both sides want the destruction of the other. The right wing (currently in power) in Israel has said that many imes. So how do you negotiate long term in the face of both sides wanting to rule from the river to the sea?
Well Israel has not constantly threatened to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth have they?
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:22 am
Well Hamas has continued to advocate for the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with a perspective such as that? Judging by the actions that Hamas has taken they should be taken at their word. I believe Israel is and should be highly skeptical of ever negotiating with Hamas. I believe Hamas will never have any intention of negotiating in good faith.
And Israel has the intention of negotiating in good faith? That's a good one man.
Both sides want the destruction of the other. The right wing (currently in power) in Israel has said that many imes. So how do you negotiate long term in the face of both sides wanting to rule from the river to the sea?
Well Israel has not constantly threatened to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth have they?
They aren't threatening the destruction of the Palestinian people - they are “executing” that strategy.
All Palestinians: men, women, and children.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:22 am
Well Hamas has continued to advocate for the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with a perspective such as that? Judging by the actions that Hamas has taken they should be taken at their word. I believe Israel is and should be highly skeptical of ever negotiating with Hamas. I believe Hamas will never have any intention of negotiating in good faith.
And Israel has the intention of negotiating in good faith? That's a good one man.
Both sides want the destruction of the other. The right wing (currently in power) in Israel has said that many imes. So how do you negotiate long term in the face of both sides wanting to rule from the river to the sea?
Well Israel has not constantly threatened to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth have they?
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:22 am
Well Hamas has continued to advocate for the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with a perspective such as that? Judging by the actions that Hamas has taken they should be taken at their word. I believe Israel is and should be highly skeptical of ever negotiating with Hamas. I believe Hamas will never have any intention of negotiating in good faith.
And Israel has the intention of negotiating in good faith? That's a good one man.
Both sides want the destruction of the other. The right wing (currently in power) in Israel has said that many imes. So how do you negotiate long term in the face of both sides wanting to rule from the river to the sea?
Well Israel has not constantly threatened to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth have they?
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:22 am
Well Hamas has continued to advocate for the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with a perspective such as that? Judging by the actions that Hamas has taken they should be taken at their word. I believe Israel is and should be highly skeptical of ever negotiating with Hamas. I believe Hamas will never have any intention of negotiating in good faith.
And Israel has the intention of negotiating in good faith? That's a good one man.
Both sides want the destruction of the other. The right wing (currently in power) in Israel has said that many imes. So how do you negotiate long term in the face of both sides wanting to rule from the river to the sea?
Well Israel has not constantly threatened to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth have they?
They aren't threatening the destruction of the Palestinian people - they are “executing” that strategy.
All Palestinians: men, women, and children.
Why are the brave Hamas warriors so cowardly that they hide behind the skirts of the Palestinians? They wanted a fight then why don't they come out of their rat holes and fight like the brave warriors they are. Allah must be so embarrassed at these cowards?
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:22 am
Well Hamas has continued to advocate for the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with a perspective such as that? Judging by the actions that Hamas has taken they should be taken at their word. I believe Israel is and should be highly skeptical of ever negotiating with Hamas. I believe Hamas will never have any intention of negotiating in good faith.
And Israel has the intention of negotiating in good faith? That's a good one man.
Both sides want the destruction of the other. The right wing (currently in power) in Israel has said that many imes. So how do you negotiate long term in the face of both sides wanting to rule from the river to the sea?
Well Israel has not constantly threatened to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth have they?
Yes after October 7. That is when Hamas decided to declare war. Israel has done it's best to keep that promise.
Actually, they have not nearly accomplished that goal and aren't likely to do it in the near or extended future. They have done a very good job of leveling Gaza and likely creating more terrorists as well as a plethora of civilian casualties - there are still over 100 hostages
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:22 am
Well Hamas has continued to advocate for the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with a perspective such as that? Judging by the actions that Hamas has taken they should be taken at their word. I believe Israel is and should be highly skeptical of ever negotiating with Hamas. I believe Hamas will never have any intention of negotiating in good faith.
And Israel has the intention of negotiating in good faith? That's a good one man.
Both sides want the destruction of the other. The right wing (currently in power) in Israel has said that many imes. So how do you negotiate long term in the face of both sides wanting to rule from the river to the sea?
Well Israel has not constantly threatened to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth have they?
Yes after October 7. That is when Hamas decided to declare war. Israel has done it's best to keep that promise.
Actually, they have not nearly accomplished that goal and aren't likely to do it in the near or extended future. They have done a very good job of leveling Gaza and likely creating more terrorists as well as a plethora of civilian casualties - there are still over 100 hostages
There is a distinct possibility that any potential " new " terrorists may decide negotiating is preferable to fighting? Gaza was leveled because that is where the Hamas cowards chose to hide. With all their bravado and bluster they chose to hide behind the skirts of the Palestinian people. They are truly the bravest of the brave? Why are there still more than 100 hostages. Because you don't negotiate with terrorists. The US use to have the same policy. Why do you think such a policy exists in the first place? You might have to put on your thinking cap to figure out why?
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:22 am
Well Hamas has continued to advocate for the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with a perspective such as that? Judging by the actions that Hamas has taken they should be taken at their word. I believe Israel is and should be highly skeptical of ever negotiating with Hamas. I believe Hamas will never have any intention of negotiating in good faith.
And Israel has the intention of negotiating in good faith? That's a good one man.
Both sides want the destruction of the other. The right wing (currently in power) in Israel has said that many imes. So how do you negotiate long term in the face of both sides wanting to rule from the river to the sea?
Well Israel has not constantly threatened to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth have they?
Yes after October 7. That is when Hamas decided to declare war. Israel has done it's best to keep that promise.
Actually, they have not nearly accomplished that goal and aren't likely to do it in the near or extended future. They have done a very good job of leveling Gaza and likely creating more terrorists as well as a plethora of civilian casualties - there are still over 100 hostages
There is a distinct possibility that any potential " new " terrorists may decide negotiating is preferable to fighting? Gaza was leveled because that is where the Hamas cowards chose to hide. With all their bravado and bluster they chose to hide behind the skirts of the Palestinian people. They are truly the bravest of the brave? Why are there still more than 100 hostages. Because you don't negotiate with terrorists. The US use to have the same policy. Why do you think such a policy exists in the first place? You might have to put on your thinking cap to figure out why?
Oversimplification of the issues and problems isn't a path to resolution in this case. Sorry.
This country (as well as Israel) has been negotiating with bad actors for DECADES including terrorists and rogue nations and not just when Democrats were in charge.
Last edited by Kismet on Mon Sep 09, 2024 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:22 am
Well Hamas has continued to advocate for the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with a perspective such as that? Judging by the actions that Hamas has taken they should be taken at their word. I believe Israel is and should be highly skeptical of ever negotiating with Hamas. I believe Hamas will never have any intention of negotiating in good faith.
And Israel has the intention of negotiating in good faith? That's a good one man.
Both sides want the destruction of the other. The right wing (currently in power) in Israel has said that many imes. So how do you negotiate long term in the face of both sides wanting to rule from the river to the sea?
Well Israel has not constantly threatened to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth have they?
Yes after October 7. That is when Hamas decided to declare war. Israel has done it's best to keep that promise.
Actually, they have not nearly accomplished that goal and aren't likely to do it in the near or extended future. They have done a very good job of leveling Gaza and likely creating more terrorists as well as a plethora of civilian casualties - there are still over 100 hostages
There is a distinct possibility that any potential " new " terrorists may decide negotiating is preferable to fighting? Gaza was leveled because that is where the Hamas cowards chose to hide. With all their bravado and bluster they chose to hide behind the skirts of the Palestinian people. They are truly the bravest of the brave? Why are there still more than 100 hostages. Because you don't negotiate with terrorists. The US use to have the same policy. Why do you think such a policy exists in the first place? You might have to put on your thinking cap to figure out why?
Oversimplification of the issues and problems isn't a path to resolution in this case. Sorry.
This country has been negotiating with bad actors for DECADES including terrorists and rogue nations and not just when Democrats were in charge.
This is different and you should understand why. I guess you don't get it do you? If your stated policy is we don't negotiate with murdering terrorists this is where you draw a line in the sand. If the tactic is found to be effective then you keep using it. Why? Because it just worked. This guarantees future hostage situations in the future.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 8:55 am
This is different and you should understand why. I guess you don't get it do you? If your stated policy is we don't negotiate with murdering terrorists this is where you draw a line in the sand. If the tactic is found to be effective then you keep using it. Why? Because it just worked. This guarantees future hostage situations in the future.
I get it fine. You likely never will...which is your right to have an opinion regardless if that opinion is based in reality or if, as is often the case with you, looking for another argument.
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:22 am
Well Hamas has continued to advocate for the destruction of Israel. How do you negotiate with a perspective such as that? Judging by the actions that Hamas has taken they should be taken at their word. I believe Israel is and should be highly skeptical of ever negotiating with Hamas. I believe Hamas will never have any intention of negotiating in good faith.
And Israel has the intention of negotiating in good faith? That's a good one man.
Both sides want the destruction of the other. The right wing (currently in power) in Israel has said that many imes. So how do you negotiate long term in the face of both sides wanting to rule from the river to the sea?
Well Israel has not constantly threatened to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth have they?
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
And only a fool would accept this offer. Sinwar is a lot of things, including complicit in or an active participant in a monstrous attack on civilian life, but I don't think he is a fool.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
So many reasons. Guilt from the turning sway of Jewish immigrants. The number of jewish voters and relsted political donations. Israel once was more or less a democracy and we supported them as one. Thst has changed since Bibi came to power. The lexicon of political discussions has changed there. Once upon a time violence was centered on the settlers. It has since been institutionalized.
