2024

[cradleandshoot]

As always very well stated. For years on these forums Dick Cheney was lambasted and ridiculed for the very reasons you point out. Who knew that all it would take was saying your voting for Harris and the libs have a mad crush on him all of a sudden. I almost choked this morning when Kamala cheerfully stated she was so proud to have Dick and Liz supporting her. It makes me wonder if Dick is thinking he's not too old to be her SecDef? Dick is always willing to sacrifice our military especially if there is in it for him down the road.

Do when did that opinion enter your brain. I don’t recall you ever making that claim before, she should be proud to get his endorsement and right fully so since her opponent id a career criminal with no moral core, a standard you do not share

I've never been a Dick Cheney fan. He isn't the kind of guy you would want to go hunting quail with. I noticed this morning that Cheneys former boss GWB and his wife have chosen to not endorse either candidate. That tells me all I need to know. Dick Cheney is riding the high horse of moral superiority which is a complete joke.

[youthathletics]

As always very well stated. For years on these forums Dick Cheney was lambasted and ridiculed for the very reasons you point out. Who knew that all it would take was saying your voting for Harris and the libs have a mad crush on him all of a sudden. I almost choked this morning when Kamala cheerfully stated she was so proud to have Dick and Liz supporting her. It makes me wonder if Dick is thinking he's not too old to be her SecDef? Dick is always willing to sacrifice our military especially if there is in it for him down the road.

Do when did that opinion enter your brain. I don’t recall you ever making that claim before, she should be proud to get his endorsement and right fully so since her opponent id a career criminal with no moral core, a standard you do not share

I've never been a Dick Cheney fan. He isn't the kind of guy you would want to go hunting quail with. I noticed this morning that Cheneys former boss GWB and his wife have chosen to not endorse either candidate. That tells me all I need to know. Dick Cheney is riding the high horse of moral superiority which is a complete joke.

Around these parts, that woud mean you are Trump fan, since you do not come out at state you are not pro-Harris. More to me continued point about the cognitive dissonance element in this election cycle and the sh(t sandwich with which the democratic part ALSO gave us.

[MDlaxfan76]

Liz and DIck Cheney voting Kamala....even though LIz said this in 2020. This is sh(t sandwich we are left eating in 2024.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/06/politics ... index.html

Well, that must tell you something when two die hard conservatives prefer someone she would describe that way over...you know who.

Doesn't it?

Or is the spin that they're really RINO's and never actually were conservatives?

It does, but don't overlook the obvious, that the left actually gave us something bad as well.

What bad thing did they give us? Is it anywhere close to Trump’s issues? What are bad things about it?

See Liz Cheney’s tweet.

I see nothing of substance or any explanations there, but I expected as much.

YA never says bad stuff about his Orange prophet. But he works really hard dredging up bad things to say about Democrats. With his pals Benny, and Tim and Dave and all their Russian dollars.

The Cheney’s “politics” may be difficult to square with voting for Harris/Walz. But their bedrock belief in a country of laws, and a Constitution, is enough not to vote for Trump and to affirmatively vote for the opposition.

My how the times have changed. On this forum Dick Cheney was always closely compared to Satan himself. To get a pass from the liberal left all he had to do was say he is voting for Harris. I thought Cheney was the architect for the war on terrorism and the invasion of Iraq? You folks remember that little war he helped start that killed and maimed how many service members again? Now all you liberals are ready to take him to the prom.
Cheney now fits into Lucy Van Pelts definition of wishy -washy, right next to good ole Charlie Brown. . Or maybe he is just a block head?

That is what has not changed.
Apparently a whole lot of Americans don't have this minimum standard that both parties have always assumed as gospel.
Some of us still do.
That so many do not, SAD.

I think this has little to do with higher standards and everything to do with their hatred of trump. Going into this years election there is very little known about what any of what Kamala Harris stands for policy wise. Since her policies are ever changing like the wind your assuming things you don't know. Caveat Emptor comes to mind. Once and if elected I'm guessing her policies will sync up with her values.

They despise Trump for all the reasons I do and clearly see him as an existential threat to the Constitution and rule of law, again as I do.

And that minimum standard, respect for Constitution and rule of law, distinctly separates Trump/MAGA cultists from all sorts of Americans including "RINOs", independents, and Dems.

There are undoubtedly some anarchists and extreme lefties who would fall into that same explicitly anti-American bucket as do Trump and his fascist cultists, but Harris/Walz, or Obama or Biden or Pelosi or Schumer or Jeffries or AOC etc most definitely do not. Democratic Governors and most Republican Governors (with only a couple of notable exceptions) do not.

The question for Republicans and former Republicans is who will stand for the Constitution and rule of law, putting country over party? The Cheneys have now explicitly done so, the Bush's clearly feel the same way, the McCain family and Mitt Romney and his wife and kids, etc have done so...

They needn't like Harris' policies to make an affirmative decision to vote against Trump.

Nobody even knows what Harris' policies might look like. Looks like the Chenys are following the path of blind obedience. There are a lot of people including myself that think Bush and Cheney sorta sidestepped the Constitution so Bush could settle a grudge with Saddam Hussein. That was a long time ago wasn't it? And dammit Saddam really needed to go... Cheney could have been non committal and said he couldn't in good conscience vote for either candidate. The enemy of my enemy must be my friend it looks like? I would have a hard time believing that Liz and her dad would ever support any of a Kamala Harris agenda with any degree of optimism. They just decided they are willing to go a long for ride.

Boy, you make zero sense.

“Blind obedience”? To whom?

Plenty to critique about Dick Cheney, but there’s no way he’s voting against Trump because he doesn’t like the guy personally or his feelings were somehow hurt by some criticism. He’s had critics his whole career and he’s never been thin skinned about any of that.

Liz voted for Trump in 2016 as did Dick undoubtedly. They are arch conservatives, and die hard Republicans. But Jan 6 changed everything for them. And what Trump has done since has only deepened their conviction that Trump and his ilk are an existential threat to the core principles of the country and our democracy. And whatever else they may be, they are country first.

So, whatever trepidations about policy they likely have, those concerns are obviously overwhelmed by a much greater concern. They very well likely believe that if Harris governs way to the left, voters will respond appropriately. They don’t have confidence that Trump will not destroy the capacity of voters to decide elections at all. Easy choice if you think voters deciding over and over again in free and fair elections actually matters.

Some people don’t…and simply want their way, whatever it takes. No holds barred.

As to any sidestep of the Constitution, what do you mean…exactly?
I don’t see it.

Happy I could start a civil conversation....until seacoaster chimed in; just can't help himself. I've said plenty on not liking Trump, so much so, he forced me to pull my damned card to the R party. You should consider being as critical to your party affiliation as you are of me...maybe some light would creep in. Dick Cheney and Bedrock of Laws is an oxymoron


Cheney is the probably the biggest war supporter in history. He doesn't give a sh{t about the collateral damage of humans. His companies practically/literally ran the war as if he were Sam Walton on each military institution. He makes John Bolton look like Greta Thunberg. Of course he would not support Trump, if Trumps ultimate goal is to not fire a bullet or send our military across the pond for profit. Not to mention, Trump would have clear access to intel which showed the GWOT was pushed by the war machine.

Harris is your typical political schill, bought and sold to elevate oneself....her Peter Principle was revealed when she started to run for POTUS and everyone saw firsthand how bad she was. Now she is a godsend, for the sole reason she is NOT Trump....talk about the cognitive dissonance options we have on full display.

So, he’s a RINO like Liz.

Did you mean that you have pulled out of the GOP now? Your grammar or spelling is a little confusing.

Like I said, plenty to critique about Dick, but I don’t think Trump had or has anything at all on him. He certainly isn’t bothered by anything like that. I do think he believes in a muscular American presence in international affairs and he’s with the bulk of Americans who are anti-Putin and pro Ukraine. I would think Trump’s exact opposite kowtow to Putin disgusts him.

Liz is far more clear.

I disagree re Harris. I see her as in the moderate governance, progressive values wing of the Dems. Not a superstar talent, but plenty capable. Certainly not dangerous in the ways that Trump definitely is.

Talk about bought and sold.

[cradleandshoot]

As always very well stated. For years on these forums Dick Cheney was lambasted and ridiculed for the very reasons you point out. Who knew that all it would take was saying your voting for Harris and the libs have a mad crush on him all of a sudden. I almost choked this morning when Kamala cheerfully stated she was so proud to have Dick and Liz supporting her. It makes me wonder if Dick is thinking he's not too old to be her SecDef? Dick is always willing to sacrifice our military especially if there is in it for him down the road.

Do when did that opinion enter your brain. I don’t recall you ever making that claim before, she should be proud to get his endorsement and right fully so since her opponent id a career criminal with no moral core, a standard you do not share

I've never been a Dick Cheney fan. He isn't the kind of guy you would want to go hunting quail with. I noticed this morning that Cheneys former boss GWB and his wife have chosen to not endorse either candidate. That tells me all I need to know. Dick Cheney is riding the high horse of moral superiority which is a complete joke.

Around these parts, that woud mean you are Trump fan, since you do not come out at state you are not pro-Harris. More to me continued point about the cognitive dissonance element in this election cycle and the sh(t sandwich with which the democratic part ALSO gave us.

As of yet Kamala Harris hasn't even stated what direction her foreign policy will go. It must still be a work in progress. Whatever it may be the usual suspects on this forum will think it is brilliant.

[njbill]

Dick Cheney is most assuredly vindictive which is actually even worse than being thin skinned because he acts on it. Just ask Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson about how vindictive he can be.

You really can’t couple father and daughter. No way Dick would ever have served on the J6 committee or taken the strong lead role that his daughter did. She at least has some principles. He has none whatsoever.

[MDlaxfan76]

Dick Cheney is most assuredly vindictive which is actually even worse than being thin skinned because he acts on it. Just ask Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson about how vindictive he can be.

You really can’t couple father and daughter. No way Dick would ever have served on the J6 committee or taken the strong lead role that his daughter did. She at least has some principles. He has none whatsoever.

I wouldn't argue with this, but I'm not so sure that country over party wouldn't still matter to Dick. Gotta remember that he and the GOP never faced a Trump alternative before, so they were always focused on countering the left (and guys like him saw that as the essential political battle in their interest to win).... not some extreme fascist rightward populist cult figure that threatens it all. Want to take a cynical view of guys like him? Well, they don't want to be subjects to the crazy excesses of fascism in which life and property are subject to the whim of those other than themselves...they like their current influence in which they kiss no one's as-es.

[Typical Lax Dad]

[youthathletics]

As always very well stated. For years on these forums Dick Cheney was lambasted and ridiculed for the very reasons you point out. Who knew that all it would take was saying your voting for Harris and the libs have a mad crush on him all of a sudden. I almost choked this morning when Kamala cheerfully stated she was so proud to have Dick and Liz supporting her. It makes me wonder if Dick is thinking he's not too old to be her SecDef? Dick is always willing to sacrifice our military especially if there is in it for him down the road.

Do when did that opinion enter your brain. I don’t recall you ever making that claim before, she should be proud to get his endorsement and right fully so since her opponent id a career criminal with no moral core, a standard you do not share

I've never been a Dick Cheney fan. He isn't the kind of guy you would want to go hunting quail with. I noticed this morning that Cheneys former boss GWB and his wife have chosen to not endorse either candidate. That tells me all I need to know. Dick Cheney is riding the high horse of moral superiority which is a complete joke.

Around these parts, that woud mean you are Trump fan, since you do not come out at state you are not pro-Harris. More to me continued point about the cognitive dissonance element in this election cycle and the sh(t sandwich with which the democratic part ALSO gave us.

As of yet Kamala Harris hasn't even stated what direction her foreign policy will go. It must still be a work in progress. Whatever it may be the usual suspects on this forum will think it is brilliant.

Yep….and her tax plans are so vague as she’d waffled from her and Biden’s plan, that none of can figure out what she plans to do. I’ve asked 2x now on these threads if anyone has found what she plans to do and how crappy her website is. Is like a damned JV campaign at this point.

[youthathletics]

Liz and DIck Cheney voting Kamala....even though LIz said this in 2020. This is sh(t sandwich we are left eating in 2024.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/06/politics ... index.html

Well, that must tell you something when two die hard conservatives prefer someone she would describe that way over...you know who.

Doesn't it?

Or is the spin that they're really RINO's and never actually were conservatives?

It does, but don't overlook the obvious, that the left actually gave us something bad as well.

What bad thing did they give us? Is it anywhere close to Trump’s issues? What are bad things about it?

See Liz Cheney’s tweet.

I see nothing of substance or any explanations there, but I expected as much.

YA never says bad stuff about his Orange prophet. But he works really hard dredging up bad things to say about Democrats. With his pals Benny, and Tim and Dave and all their Russian dollars.

The Cheney’s “politics” may be difficult to square with voting for Harris/Walz. But their bedrock belief in a country of laws, and a Constitution, is enough not to vote for Trump and to affirmatively vote for the opposition.

My how the times have changed. On this forum Dick Cheney was always closely compared to Satan himself. To get a pass from the liberal left all he had to do was say he is voting for Harris. I thought Cheney was the architect for the war on terrorism and the invasion of Iraq? You folks remember that little war he helped start that killed and maimed how many service members again? Now all you liberals are ready to take him to the prom.
Cheney now fits into Lucy Van Pelts definition of wishy -washy, right next to good ole Charlie Brown. . Or maybe he is just a block head?

That is what has not changed.
Apparently a whole lot of Americans don't have this minimum standard that both parties have always assumed as gospel.
Some of us still do.
That so many do not, SAD.

I think this has little to do with higher standards and everything to do with their hatred of trump. Going into this years election there is very little known about what any of what Kamala Harris stands for policy wise. Since her policies are ever changing like the wind your assuming things you don't know. Caveat Emptor comes to mind. Once and if elected I'm guessing her policies will sync up with her values.

They despise Trump for all the reasons I do and clearly see him as an existential threat to the Constitution and rule of law, again as I do.

And that minimum standard, respect for Constitution and rule of law, distinctly separates Trump/MAGA cultists from all sorts of Americans including "RINOs", independents, and Dems.

There are undoubtedly some anarchists and extreme lefties who would fall into that same explicitly anti-American bucket as do Trump and his fascist cultists, but Harris/Walz, or Obama or Biden or Pelosi or Schumer or Jeffries or AOC etc most definitely do not. Democratic Governors and most Republican Governors (with only a couple of notable exceptions) do not.

The question for Republicans and former Republicans is who will stand for the Constitution and rule of law, putting country over party? The Cheneys have now explicitly done so, the Bush's clearly feel the same way, the McCain family and Mitt Romney and his wife and kids, etc have done so...

They needn't like Harris' policies to make an affirmative decision to vote against Trump.

Nobody even knows what Harris' policies might look like. Looks like the Chenys are following the path of blind obedience. There are a lot of people including myself that think Bush and Cheney sorta sidestepped the Constitution so Bush could settle a grudge with Saddam Hussein. That was a long time ago wasn't it? And dammit Saddam really needed to go... Cheney could have been non committal and said he couldn't in good conscience vote for either candidate. The enemy of my enemy must be my friend it looks like? I would have a hard time believing that Liz and her dad would ever support any of a Kamala Harris agenda with any degree of optimism. They just decided they are willing to go a long for ride.

Boy, you make zero sense.

“Blind obedience”? To whom?

Plenty to critique about Dick Cheney, but there’s no way he’s voting against Trump because he doesn’t like the guy personally or his feelings were somehow hurt by some criticism. He’s had critics his whole career and he’s never been thin skinned about any of that.

Liz voted for Trump in 2016 as did Dick undoubtedly. They are arch conservatives, and die hard Republicans. But Jan 6 changed everything for them. And what Trump has done since has only deepened their conviction that Trump and his ilk are an existential threat to the core principles of the country and our democracy. And whatever else they may be, they are country first.

So, whatever trepidations about policy they likely have, those concerns are obviously overwhelmed by a much greater concern. They very well likely believe that if Harris governs way to the left, voters will respond appropriately. They don’t have confidence that Trump will not destroy the capacity of voters to decide elections at all. Easy choice if you think voters deciding over and over again in free and fair elections actually matters.

Some people don’t…and simply want their way, whatever it takes. No holds barred.

As to any sidestep of the Constitution, what do you mean…exactly?
I don’t see it.

Happy I could start a civil conversation....until seacoaster chimed in; just can't help himself. I've said plenty on not liking Trump, so much so, he forced me to pull my damned card to the R party. You should consider being as critical to your party affiliation as you are of me...maybe some light would creep in. Dick Cheney and Bedrock of Laws is an oxymoron


Cheney is the probably the biggest war supporter in history. He doesn't give a sh{t about the collateral damage of humans. His companies practically/literally ran the war as if he were Sam Walton on each military institution. He makes John Bolton look like Greta Thunberg. Of course he would not support Trump, if Trumps ultimate goal is to not fire a bullet or send our military across the pond for profit. Not to mention, Trump would have clear access to intel which showed the GWOT was pushed by the war machine.

Harris is your typical political schill, bought and sold to elevate oneself....her Peter Principle was revealed when she started to run for POTUS and everyone saw firsthand how bad she was. Now she is a godsend, for the sole reason she is NOT Trump....talk about the cognitive dissonance options we have on full display.

So, he’s a RINO like Liz.

Did you mean that you have pulled out of the GOP now? Your grammar or spelling is a little confusing.

Like I said, plenty to critique about Dick, but I don’t think Trump had or has anything at all on him. He certainly isn’t bothered by anything like that. I do think he believes in a muscular American presence in international affairs and he’s with the bulk of Americans who are anti-Putin and pro Ukraine. I would think Trump’s exact opposite kowtow to Putin disgusts him.

Liz is far more clear.

I disagree re Harris. I see her as in the moderate governance, progressive values wing of the Dems. Not a superstar talent, but plenty capable. Certainly not dangerous in the ways that Trump definitely is.

Talk about bought and sold.

Yes, I am officially a card carrying Independent.

[cradleandshoot]

As always very well stated. For years on these forums Dick Cheney was lambasted and ridiculed for the very reasons you point out. Who knew that all it would take was saying your voting for Harris and the libs have a mad crush on him all of a sudden. I almost choked this morning when Kamala cheerfully stated she was so proud to have Dick and Liz supporting her. It makes me wonder if Dick is thinking he's not too old to be her SecDef? Dick is always willing to sacrifice our military especially if there is in it for him down the road.

Do when did that opinion enter your brain. I don’t recall you ever making that claim before, she should be proud to get his endorsement and right fully so since her opponent id a career criminal with no moral core, a standard you do not share

I've never been a Dick Cheney fan. He isn't the kind of guy you would want to go hunting quail with. I noticed this morning that Cheneys former boss GWB and his wife have chosen to not endorse either candidate. That tells me all I need to know. Dick Cheney is riding the high horse of moral superiority which is a complete joke.

Around these parts, that woud mean you are Trump fan, since you do not come out at state you are not pro-Harris. More to me continued point about the cognitive dissonance element in this election cycle and the sh(t sandwich with which the democratic part ALSO gave us.

As of yet Kamala Harris hasn't even stated what direction her foreign policy will go. It must still be a work in progress. Whatever it may be the usual suspects on this forum will think it is brilliant.

Yep….and her tax plans are so vague as she’d waffled from her and Biden’s plan, that none of can figure out what she plans to do. I’ve asked 2x now on these threads if anyone has found what she plans to do and how crappy her website is. Is like a damned JV campaign at this point.

The only thing she has stated clearly is this...her policies have changed but her values have not. How reassuring is that?

[MDlaxfan76]

As always very well stated. For years on these forums Dick Cheney was lambasted and ridiculed for the very reasons you point out. Who knew that all it would take was saying your voting for Harris and the libs have a mad crush on him all of a sudden. I almost choked this morning when Kamala cheerfully stated she was so proud to have Dick and Liz supporting her. It makes me wonder if Dick is thinking he's not too old to be her SecDef? Dick is always willing to sacrifice our military especially if there is in it for him down the road.

Do when did that opinion enter your brain. I don’t recall you ever making that claim before, she should be proud to get his endorsement and right fully so since her opponent id a career criminal with no moral core, a standard you do not share

I've never been a Dick Cheney fan. He isn't the kind of guy you would want to go hunting quail with. I noticed this morning that Cheneys former boss GWB and his wife have chosen to not endorse either candidate. That tells me all I need to know. Dick Cheney is riding the high horse of moral superiority which is a complete joke.

Around these parts, that woud mean you are Trump fan, since you do not come out at state you are not pro-Harris. More to me continued point about the cognitive dissonance element in this election cycle and the sh(t sandwich with which the democratic part ALSO gave us.

As of yet Kamala Harris hasn't even stated what direction her foreign policy will go. It must still be a work in progress. Whatever it may be the usual suspects on this forum will think it is brilliant.

George is simply saying he believes he should stay out of presidential politics, (which I think is hogwash), but his dad similarly felt that he needed to be supportive of whoever landed in the job and so campaigning would compromise that. It's been super clear that he wants no part of Trump, disagrees on virtually everything Trump represents, and the feeling is mutual. The lack of an endorsement of Trump should speak volumes.

As many prominent Republicans and former Republicans have been saying, you needn't be a Democrat or agree with Harris on much of anything, to affirmatively vote against Trump.

As to foreign policy, she's been quite clear about support of Ukraine and opposition to Putin, she's also clearly in the Israel must be defended camp, albeit with considerably more empathy for the Palestinian situation. She's full-on two state solution, in clear opposition to Netanyahu and the right wing fundamentalists in Israel. Most of America agrees with these positions. But there are extremes on both left and right who disagree.

I've heard less about or from her on Asia, specifically China and our various allies in the region, but presumably she's at least close to the current Admin's rather hawkish view of China and its growing ambitions coupled with totalitarian rule. But not a nutcase calling for massive trade war tariffs.

My sense is that she will feel the need to demonstrate some steel in her spine, at a minimum in negotiating postures, but a fresh face also offers some opportunity for others to reset their sails to a more cooperative posture, less confrontational...but I don't have high hopes that tensions will suddenly go away on various fronts, given the ambitions of others.

So...I'd far prefer some consistency with the competence that this Admin has demonstrated than a turn toward embrace of authoritarian nationalism and trade wars...that has a hugely awful history and would presage a tragic end of the massive benefits of a century of American leadership in the world.

[njbill]

Dick Cheney is most assuredly vindictive which is actually even worse than being thin skinned because he acts on it. Just ask Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson about how vindictive he can be.

You really can’t couple father and daughter. No way Dick would ever have served on the J6 committee or taken the strong lead role that his daughter did. She at least has some principles. He has none whatsoever.

I wouldn't argue with this, but I'm not so sure that country over party wouldn't still matter to Dick. Gotta remember that he and the GOP never faced a Trump alternative before, so they were always focused on countering the left (and guys like him saw that as the essential political battle in their interest to win).... not some extreme fascist rightward populist cult figure that threatens it all. Want to take a cynical view of guys like him? Well, they don't want to be subjects to the crazy excesses of fascism in which life and property are subject to the whim of those other than themselves...they like their current influence in which they kiss no one's as-es.

If your point is Trump is worse than Dick Cheney, I would agree. Remember, I’m the guy who has said repeatedly that Trump is the single most dangerous American to our form of government in history. Only his idol, Hitler, was more dangerous.

[MDlaxfan76]

As always very well stated. For years on these forums Dick Cheney was lambasted and ridiculed for the very reasons you point out. Who knew that all it would take was saying your voting for Harris and the libs have a mad crush on him all of a sudden. I almost choked this morning when Kamala cheerfully stated she was so proud to have Dick and Liz supporting her. It makes me wonder if Dick is thinking he's not too old to be her SecDef? Dick is always willing to sacrifice our military especially if there is in it for him down the road.

Do when did that opinion enter your brain. I don’t recall you ever making that claim before, she should be proud to get his endorsement and right fully so since her opponent id a career criminal with no moral core, a standard you do not share

I've never been a Dick Cheney fan. He isn't the kind of guy you would want to go hunting quail with. I noticed this morning that Cheneys former boss GWB and his wife have chosen to not endorse either candidate. That tells me all I need to know. Dick Cheney is riding the high horse of moral superiority which is a complete joke.

Around these parts, that woud mean you are Trump fan, since you do not come out at state you are not pro-Harris. More to me continued point about the cognitive dissonance element in this election cycle and the sh(t sandwich with which the democratic part ALSO gave us.

As of yet Kamala Harris hasn't even stated what direction her foreign policy will go. It must still be a work in progress. Whatever it may be the usual suspects on this forum will think it is brilliant.

Yep….and her tax plans are so vague as she’d waffled from her and Biden’s plan, that none of can figure out what she plans to do. I’ve asked 2x now on these threads if anyone has found what she plans to do and how crappy her website is. Is like a damned JV campaign at this point.

Hang on, are you saying that the alternative campaign looks like a varsity campaign???

Do Trump's " tax plans" remotely make sense to you? They certainly don't to economic analysts whether academic or at places like Goldman Sachs.

She's been rolling out specifics of where her priorities are, and, with respectful, but increasing clarity, on how her views are different from the past 4 years. They've been moderating some of the progressive tax proposals Biden has been putting forward, but consistent directionally...Bernie and Liz Warren are not thrilled, but they know that they aren't the center of the Dem party.

We can quibble about specifics (and no, cradle, I don't hear anything "brilliant"), but broad strokes we know where she is directionally and none of it is extreme or ridiculously half-baked ala Trump.

No President gets everything they want legislatively, so the exact numbers of proposals are largely irrelevant. What we SHOULD want to know is whether the next Admin at least has competent people at the helm, or will everything be about crony capitalism and trade wars?

[Typical Lax Dad]

As always very well stated. For years on these forums Dick Cheney was lambasted and ridiculed for the very reasons you point out. Who knew that all it would take was saying your voting for Harris and the libs have a mad crush on him all of a sudden. I almost choked this morning when Kamala cheerfully stated she was so proud to have Dick and Liz supporting her. It makes me wonder if Dick is thinking he's not too old to be her SecDef? Dick is always willing to sacrifice our military especially if there is in it for him down the road.

Do when did that opinion enter your brain. I don’t recall you ever making that claim before, she should be proud to get his endorsement and right fully so since her opponent id a career criminal with no moral core, a standard you do not share

I've never been a Dick Cheney fan. He isn't the kind of guy you would want to go hunting quail with. I noticed this morning that Cheneys former boss GWB and his wife have chosen to not endorse either candidate. That tells me all I need to know. Dick Cheney is riding the high horse of moral superiority which is a complete joke.

Around these parts, that woud mean you are Trump fan, since you do not come out at state you are not pro-Harris. More to me continued point about the cognitive dissonance element in this election cycle and the sh(t sandwich with which the democratic part ALSO gave us.

As of yet Kamala Harris hasn't even stated what direction her foreign policy will go. It must still be a work in progress. Whatever it may be the usual suspects on this forum will think it is brilliant.

George is simply saying he believes he should stay out of presidential politics, (which I think is hogwash), but his dad similarly felt that he needed to be supportive of whoever landed in the job and so campaigning would compromise that. It's been super clear that he wants no part of Trump, disagrees on virtually everything Trump represents, and the feeling is mutual. The lack of an endorsement of Trump should speak volumes.

As many prominent Republicans and former Republicans have been saying, you needn't be a Democrat or agree with Harris on much of anything, to affirmatively vote against Trump.

As to foreign policy, she's been quite clear about support of Ukraine and opposition to Putin, she's also clearly in the Israel must be defended camp, albeit with considerably more empathy for the Palestinian situation. She's full-on two state solution, in clear opposition to Netanyahu and the right wing fundamentalists in Israel. Most of America agrees with these positions. But there are extremes on both left and right who disagree.

I've heard less about or from her on Asia, specifically China and our various allies in the region, but presumably she's at least close to the current Admin's rather hawkish view of China and its growing ambitions coupled with totalitarian rule. But not a nutcase calling for massive trade war tariffs.

My sense is that she will feel the need to demonstrate some steel in her spine, at a minimum in negotiating postures, but a fresh face also offers some opportunity for others to reset their sails to a more cooperative posture, less confrontational...but I don't have high hopes that tensions will suddenly go away on various fronts, given the ambitions of others.

So...I'd far prefer some consistency with the competence that this Admin has demonstrated than a turn toward embrace of authoritarian nationalism and trade wars...that has a hugely awful history and would presage a tragic end of the massive benefits of a century of American leadership in the world.

Trump said the tariffs paid by China will cover Daycare for Americans. We can count on that.

[MDlaxfan76]

Dick Cheney is most assuredly vindictive which is actually even worse than being thin skinned because he acts on it. Just ask Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson about how vindictive he can be.

You really can’t couple father and daughter. No way Dick would ever have served on the J6 committee or taken the strong lead role that his daughter did. She at least has some principles. He has none whatsoever.

I wouldn't argue with this, but I'm not so sure that country over party wouldn't still matter to Dick. Gotta remember that he and the GOP never faced a Trump alternative before, so they were always focused on countering the left (and guys like him saw that as the essential political battle in their interest to win).... not some extreme fascist rightward populist cult figure that threatens it all. Want to take a cynical view of guys like him? Well, they don't want to be subjects to the crazy excesses of fascism in which life and property are subject to the whim of those other than themselves...they like their current influence in which they kiss no one's as-es.

If your point is Trump is worse than Dick Cheney, I would agree. Remember, I’m the guy who has said repeatedly that Trump is the single most dangerous American to our form of government in history. Only his idol, Hitler, was more dangerous.

We are in 'violent agreement'.

[njbill]

[Typical Lax Dad]

[MDlaxfan76]

As always very well stated. For years on these forums Dick Cheney was lambasted and ridiculed for the very reasons you point out. Who knew that all it would take was saying your voting for Harris and the libs have a mad crush on him all of a sudden. I almost choked this morning when Kamala cheerfully stated she was so proud to have Dick and Liz supporting her. It makes me wonder if Dick is thinking he's not too old to be her SecDef? Dick is always willing to sacrifice our military especially if there is in it for him down the road.

Do when did that opinion enter your brain. I don’t recall you ever making that claim before, she should be proud to get his endorsement and right fully so since her opponent id a career criminal with no moral core, a standard you do not share

I've never been a Dick Cheney fan. He isn't the kind of guy you would want to go hunting quail with. I noticed this morning that Cheneys former boss GWB and his wife have chosen to not endorse either candidate. That tells me all I need to know. Dick Cheney is riding the high horse of moral superiority which is a complete joke.

Around these parts, that woud mean you are Trump fan, since you do not come out at state you are not pro-Harris. More to me continued point about the cognitive dissonance element in this election cycle and the sh(t sandwich with which the democratic part ALSO gave us.

As of yet Kamala Harris hasn't even stated what direction her foreign policy will go. It must still be a work in progress. Whatever it may be the usual suspects on this forum will think it is brilliant.

George is simply saying he believes he should stay out of presidential politics, (which I think is hogwash), but his dad similarly felt that he needed to be supportive of whoever landed in the job and so campaigning would compromise that. It's been super clear that he wants no part of Trump, disagrees on virtually everything Trump represents, and the feeling is mutual. The lack of an endorsement of Trump should speak volumes.

As many prominent Republicans and former Republicans have been saying, you needn't be a Democrat or agree with Harris on much of anything, to affirmatively vote against Trump.

As to foreign policy, she's been quite clear about support of Ukraine and opposition to Putin, she's also clearly in the Israel must be defended camp, albeit with considerably more empathy for the Palestinian situation. She's full-on two state solution, in clear opposition to Netanyahu and the right wing fundamentalists in Israel. Most of America agrees with these positions. But there are extremes on both left and right who disagree.

I've heard less about or from her on Asia, specifically China and our various allies in the region, but presumably she's at least close to the current Admin's rather hawkish view of China and its growing ambitions coupled with totalitarian rule. But not a nutcase calling for massive trade war tariffs.

My sense is that she will feel the need to demonstrate some steel in her spine, at a minimum in negotiating postures, but a fresh face also offers some opportunity for others to reset their sails to a more cooperative posture, less confrontational...but I don't have high hopes that tensions will suddenly go away on various fronts, given the ambitions of others.

So...I'd far prefer some consistency with the competence that this Admin has demonstrated than a turn toward embrace of authoritarian nationalism and trade wars...that has a hugely awful history and would presage a tragic end of the massive benefits of a century of American leadership in the world.

Trump said the tariffs paid by China will cover Daycare for Americans. We can count on that.

Yeah...that's the 'varsity's "tax" proposals...

[MDlaxfan76]

Well, he has a plan...or can read a teleprompter

yeah those "massive tax cuts reduced deficits"...hoo boy.

Maybe that's how he went bankrupt so many times, he doesn't actually know that when you take in less than you spend, that's a "deficit"... and ultimately leads to bankruptcy (unless you can print money)...

For those who never read these threads, under Trump, deficits rose year over year in each year of Trump's tenure, and every year post tax cuts it rose significantly as a percentage of GDP. In the last year of Obama, before Trump took over, the deficit was $585 billion and 3.1% of GDP. 2019, 3 years later, pre Covid explosion of deficit (let's be fair to Trump), the deficit had grown to $984 billion and 4.6% of GDP. In no world of rationale analysis did the tax cuts result in a reduction in deficits.

But adherence to truth is not a Trump or MAGA principle, indeed the principle seems to be to exaggerate the lie massively and just keep repeating it...(Trump famously said he chose the GOP because its voters are so stupid)

I did think the riff on sending Harris a MAGA hat was funny.

Want to get further wonky, we can and should analyze whether deficits are or are not improving the 'capital of the country offsetting the growing debt. We did see some growth of the economy in the Trump years, following a steady progression from the Obama years, but did we see major improvements in either physical or human capital??? Did we repair and build lots of infrastructure (or did we fall further behind?), or perhaps did education markedly improve at any level? Did we see big improvements in environment or public safety?

Deficits are sustainable if we actually grow the productivity of our economy and improve the underlying social goods we value, but they ain't if we fail to channel wisely.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well, he has a plan...or can read a teleprompter

yeah those "massive tax cuts reduced deficits"...hoo boy.

Maybe that's how he went bankrupt so many times, he doesn't actually know that when you take in less than you spend, that's a "deficit"... and ultimately leads to bankruptcy (unless you can print money)...

For those who never read these threads, under Trump, deficits rose year over year in each year of Trump's tenure, and every year post tax cuts it rose significantly as a percentage of GDP. In the last year of Obama, before Trump took over, the deficit was $585 billion and 3.1% of GDP. 2019, 3 years later, pre Covid explosion of deficit (let's be fair to Trump), the deficit had grown to $984 billion and 4.6% of GDP. In no world of rationale analysis did the tax cuts result in a reduction in deficits.

But adherence to truth is not a Trump or MAGA principle, indeed the principle seems to be to exaggerate the lie massively and just keep repeating it...(Trump famously said he chose the GOP because its voters are so stupid)

I did think the riff on sending Harris a MAGA hat was funny.

You can see it here almost daily