Navy 2022

[houndace1]

So i have a question: can someone clarify the restrictions that are on potential recruits if they want to play lacrosse, or any sport for Navy? I keep hearing that recruiting kids to come play at SA's are much harder than regular universities.

[Wheels]

So i have a question: can someone clarify the restrictions that are on potential recruits if they want to play lacrosse, or any sport for Navy? I keep hearing that recruiting kids to come play at SA's are much harder than regular universities.

You mean aside from the daily grind of military life combined with an elite academic environment? The military discipline piece is hard enough. The academic life is really high level.

Or do you mean getting recruits into the academies? 3/4ths of Navy's roster is comprised of kids who did a post-grad year at NAPS. I haven't looked at Army's or AFA's roster in that regard, though.

[Wheels]

If a coach considers himself underpaid, no matter where he is, he may well want to interview at a place that's known to throw around big bucks, just to bring that offer back to his current employer, even if he has no actual interest in the new job ...

Funny thing about turnover, though, is that once you start looking, it's a matter of when not if. There are unintended consequences of shopping around beyond your employer getting sick of it.

[houndace1]

So i have a question: can someone clarify the restrictions that are on potential recruits if they want to play lacrosse, or any sport for Navy? I keep hearing that recruiting kids to come play at SA's are much harder than regular universities.

You mean aside from the daily grind of military life combined with an elite academic environment? The military discipline piece is hard enough. The academic life is really high level.

Or do you mean getting recruits into the academies? 3/4ths of Navy's roster is comprised of kids who did a post-grad year at NAPS. I haven't looked at Army's or AFA's roster in that regard, though.

In terms of getting the recruits into the academy. Is there a height/weight requirement? Navy is a proud program but are there other reasons as to why Navy doesn't pull in blue chips year in year out?

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

So i have a question: can someone clarify the restrictions that are on potential recruits if they want to play lacrosse, or any sport for Navy? I keep hearing that recruiting kids to come play at SA's are much harder than regular universities.

You mean aside from the daily grind of military life combined with an elite academic environment? The military discipline piece is hard enough. The academic life is really high level.

Or do you mean getting recruits into the academies? 3/4ths of Navy's roster is comprised of kids who did a post-grad year at NAPS. I haven't looked at Army's or AFA's roster in that regard, though.

In terms of getting the recruits into the academy. Is there a height/weight requirement? Navy is a proud program but are there other reasons as to why Navy doesn't pull in blue chips year in year out?

Uh, war, War On Terrorism, etc.

Not everybody wants to sign up for that.

And a lot shouldn’t, if they can’t hack it.

[CU77]

Funny thing about turnover, though, is that once you start looking, it's a matter of when not if. There are unintended consequences of shopping around beyond your employer getting sick of it.

Lehigh coach Kevin Cassese interviewed at Cornell in 2014; according to rumor, he was offered the job and turned it down. He's still at Lehigh five years later.

[youthathletics]

So i have a question: can someone clarify the restrictions that are on potential recruits if they want to play lacrosse, or any sport for Navy? I keep hearing that recruiting kids to come play at SA's are much harder than regular universities.

You mean aside from the daily grind of military life combined with an elite academic environment? The military discipline piece is hard enough. The academic life is really high level.

Or do you mean getting recruits into the academies? 3/4ths of Navy's roster is comprised of kids who did a post-grad year at NAPS. I haven't looked at Army's or AFA's roster in that regard, though.

In terms of getting the recruits into the academy. Is there a height/weight requirement? Navy is a proud program but are there other reasons as to why Navy doesn't pull in blue chips year in year out?

Uh, war, War On Terrorism, etc.

Not everybody wants to sign up for that.

And a lot shouldn’t, if they can’t hack it.

+ 2

[Bravo 3]

there’s something special and rewarding about coaching future Marines, Navy Seals and fighter pilots, etc. Richie sure appreciated it, and they won . That’s who you recruit. Recruit blue chip bad asses. Not simply blue chip lax bros.

[Wheels]

Funny thing about turnover, though, is that once you start looking, it's a matter of when not if. There are unintended consequences of shopping around beyond your employer getting sick of it.

Lehigh coach Kevin Cassese interviewed at Cornell in 2014; according to rumor, he was offered the job and turned it down. He's still at Lehigh five years later.

CU77...you know statistics. Sure, we can find exceptions to rules all day. On average (normal distributions and all of that), when one starts looking for a new job regardless of reason, one eventually leaves.

The flip side of bringing offers to your boss is that you better be ready to call his/her bluff. If they don't match, you better be ready to go. Of course, if you do this more than once (bring offers to get raises), you might not last long anyway.

[laxpere]

So i have a question: can someone clarify the restrictions that are on potential recruits if they want to play lacrosse, or any sport for Navy? I keep hearing that recruiting kids to come play at SA's are much harder than regular universities.

You mean aside from the daily grind of military life combined with an elite academic environment? The military discipline piece is hard enough. The academic life is really high level.
Or do you mean getting recruits into the academies? 3/4ths of Navy's roster is comprised of kids who did a post-grad year at NAPS. I haven't looked at Army's or AFA's roster in that regard, though.

In terms of getting the recruits into the academy. Is there a height/weight requirement? Navy is a proud program but are there other reasons as to why Navy doesn't pull in blue chips year in year out?

Uh, war, War On Terrorism, etc.
Not everybody wants to sign up for that.
And a lot shouldn’t, if they can’t hack it.

+ 2

+ 3
The recruiting challenge has always been there because it is a huge commitment that goes beyond your typical four-year college experience. It has always been tough academically and socially, but the age of social media probably makes it even tougher. On top of that, top players might have options that are economically equivalent to weigh without the five-year service obligation. There are no height or weight restrictions to my knowledge, but a physical is part of the USNA application. Size hasn't been an issue, look at Jack Ray.

As Wheels points out, the academic profile of the US Naval Academy is very strong and the acceptance rate is up there with the top elite schools. Plus, the acceptance rate is more impressive because there is little fluff in the applicant pool, i.e. kids who apply to the USNA don't seem to be applying to 10-15 other schools because of the ease of the common app. It is rarely someone's backup school and most apply to USNA because they intend to go there. Plus, there is the extra step of securing a nomination, either from your Representative or US Senator.

Ultimately, it is "quality of life" issues that make it a challenge. The academic environment is challenging and the typical week is full of military obligations. Consequently, there is little "free time". Look at the typical daily schedules of a couple of players that are published in the Navy Lacrosse game programs/media guides for a flavor of the rigor life at USNA. I think that one of the major criticisms of Coach Sowell was that he didn't understand or appreciate the daily demands beyond lacrosse on his players.

Another challenge is the recruiting class never expands and attrition is the norm, whether it is defections or injuries. Every one starts as a Plebe and is on a four year track. There is no red shirting and no transfers to replenish the ranks.

Not sure what Wheels is saying about NAPS, but lacrosse recruits have the same admission/nomination requirements to receive an appointment to USNA. And NAPS is no cakewalk and it is a demanding environment. USMA and AFA also have prep schools too and athletic recruits are not the majority of the prep school enrollment. Given the inability to red shirt players or bring in transfers, the prep schools help manage the flow of recruits at least over the near term, backing and filling when necessary.

There is also arguments that it helps team building and assimilation into a military environment. It will be interesting to see if there is any change in the approach to NAPS with the new Head Coach. The NAPS 2018 class suffered some high profile defections, and the 17 USNA class of 2022 recruits were a more even mix of NAPS and directs. There have been a couple of defections in the NAPS 2019 class too, including one this past week.

WOMBAT is right on point that it takes a special person to sign up, especially in times of escalating globe tension, and an even tougher one to play a D-I sport at Navy. It is a great education and an awesome life experience, but many have a hard time seeing the long-term benefits, aren't willing to make the sacrifices that it takes or can't seem to hack it.

Go Navy Lacrosse v.2020.

[laxpere]

Funny thing about turnover, though, is that once you start looking, it's a matter of when not if. There are unintended consequences of shopping around beyond your employer getting sick of it.

Lehigh coach Kevin Cassese interviewed at Cornell in 2014; according to rumor, he was offered the job and turned it down. He's still at Lehigh five years later.

CU77...you know statistics. Sure, we can find exceptions to rules all day. On average (normal distributions and all of that), when one starts looking for a new job regardless of reason, one eventually leaves.
The flip side of bringing offers to your boss is that you better be ready to call his/her bluff. If they don't match, you better be ready to go. Of course, if you do this more than once (bring offers to get raises), you might not last long anyway.

Good point. Gaining some negotiating leverage might be a goal, but you better be willing to take the Navy Lacrosse job in case there isn't a counter offer from your current employer.
At the end of the day, most of us are economic beasts, and rare is the altruist these days.

[laxpere]

there’s something special and rewarding about coaching future Marines, Navy Seals and fighter pilots, etc. Richie sure appreciated it, and they won . That’s who you recruit. Recruit blue chip bad asses. Not simply blue chip lax bros.

Do you think that the recent recruiting effort has been one of the issues?
I wonder what SonnySide thinks since he sounds like a recent players and might have an insider's perspective.

[Scarlet]

Funny thing about turnover, though, is that once you start looking, it's a matter of when not if. There are unintended consequences of shopping around beyond your employer getting sick of it.

Lehigh coach Kevin Cassese interviewed at Cornell in 2014; according to rumor, he was offered the job and turned it down. He's still at Lehigh five years later.

CU77...you know statistics. Sure, we can find exceptions to rules all day. On average (normal distributions and all of that), when one starts looking for a new job regardless of reason, one eventually leaves.

The flip side of bringing offers to your boss is that you better be ready to call his/her bluff. If they don't match, you better be ready to go. Of course, if you do this more than once (bring offers to get raises), you might not last long anyway.

Everyone eventually leaves, voluntarily or involuntarily, whether they have sought another job or not.

[NoLeft]

There were (maybe still are) height/weight requirements to enter the Naval Academy.....In particular, in the late 50's when I entered there was even a minimum weight requirement. ( I got a waiver because I was underweight). And there used to be at least a provision that you failed entry due to "excessive ugliness." I got in anyway.....
I defer to more recent grads to report on physical requirements currently....

[youthathletics]

Do you think that the recent recruiting effort has been one of the issues?
I wonder what SonnySide thinks since he sounds like a recent players and might have an insider's perspective.

I know you asked another poster this question but I can say with confidence that recruiting has been quite good. We have a mix of JL, Phipps, Wellner, Camposa, and Parks guys on the yard. Look no further than just a couple of those from the NAPS (2018) class that rolled, they often fall like dominoes once one rolls out. My son, who attended NAPS, embraced the grind and fought through the angst that was the Newport dark ages. There is a unique jubilation and a Thank God, as they look at the Claiborne Pell/Newport Bridge in their rear view one last time and yet.....when you ask each of them about it now, they almost miss it, why? b/c they fought through something that was very trying and disciplined, TOGETHER.

There is a strong argument that coming directly to Annapolis is much like going to NAPS, Plebe Summer is much more enduring and mentally challenging than INDOC at NAPS, but nonetheless you only have to do it once if you are a direct admit. I would guess attrition as a direct would be much less, but NAPS is also a place for academics to get in order...tough balance.

I know a few of the players I spoke with are very excited about this fall and pleased about the anticipation of something new and improved. Myself included.

[SonnySide]

As a former player who graduated recently, I will give a couple of my thoughts on some points that I believe have been severely over exaggerated here...

1) That recruits will follow any of the current assistant coaches to another school or they will not want to still come to the Academy based on who the new coach is. I went to Navy because I wanted to be a marine, end of story. Getting along with the lacrosse coach had nothing to do with me reaching that goal.

2) That it is really important to have a coach with service academy experience. As far as it relates to the current Mids, I liked being able to have a lacrosse coach who was actually not a former Mid. It gave me a chance to interact with a little normalcy outside of the military side of the Yard. Coach Phipps for example, was the easiest guy to talk to on Earth, and I actually loved being able to shoot the sh*t with him about the annoyances on the Yard. He was extremely willing to listen and really made an effort to understand the highs and lows of our lives outside of lacrosse. A new coach does not have to have service academy experience, but just a willingness to learn about our lives. (Hopefully that makes sense).

[youthathletics]

Is your first sentence accurate or did you mean to say... That it is really "not that" important?

[SonnySide]

Is your first sentence accurate or did you mean to say... That it is really "not that" important?

It is really not that important to have service academy experience (in my opinion)... sorry for the mixup

This is assuming they make an effort to learn

[HealthyDebate]

Sonnyside
How long did it take those same coaches to figure out the Academy. You probably missed those years in the last transition.

[SonnySide]

Sonnyside
How long did it take those same coaches to figure out the Academy. You probably missed those years in the last transition.

True. If the coach just shows an appreciation for what we go through and a willingness to learn - then I believe the transitional period would be worth it.