2025 USA Lacrosse Way to Early top 25

[AreaLax]

1 ND
2 Cuse
3. Cornell
4 Princeton
5 UVA

https://www.usalacrosse.com/magazine/co ... sion-i-men

6 Maryland
7 Duke
8 Yale
9 Hopkins
10. Denver

https://www.usalacrosse.com/magazine/co ... sion-i-men

11 PSU
12 Towson
13 Michigan
14 Georgetown
15 Army
https://www.usalacrosse.com/magazine/co ... sion-i-men

16 Penn
17 UNC
18 Harvard
19 Lehigh
20 Ohio State

https://www.usalacrosse.com/magazine/co ... sion-i-men


21 Albany
22 Villanova
23 Colgate
24 Richmond
25t Providence
25t Rutgers
https://www.usalacrosse.com/magazine/co ... sion-i-men

[Turnandrake]

Way to early rankings seem to never change

[wgdsr]

Way to early rankings seem to never change

when's the last time 'cuse, cornell and princeton were projected in the final four? 2010? or 2002?

[The Orfling]

Really liking seeing three Ivies in the top 10 and I hope all three play that way when spring 2025 rolls around. I do worry if Ivies can keep bringing in strong talent in the NIL/portal era (which I think of as the “Free Agent” era of college athletics) but time will tell. (Sometimes I recall thinking that early recruiting would sideline Ivy relevance and then Yale won a national championship at the tail end of the early recruiting era.) So, for now, I will just enjoy getting to watch some of the great players (chief among them CJ Kirst) and great returning and new coaches (Jon Torpey joins Sean Kirwan as two intriguing leaders for Brown and Dartmouth respectively).

It’s still hard to imagine anybody shouldering aside Notre Dame and UVA to bring home the title — two extremely well coached programs with tons of talent returning and awash in incoming talent — but Notre Dame has to break in a new goalie and UVA has been good but not great at goalie and FOGO so perhaps those are the narrow avenues of attack for other programs.

[wgdsr]

Really liking seeing three Ivies in the top 10 and I hope all three play that way when spring 2025 rolls around. I do worry if Ivies can keep bringing in strong talent in the NIL/portal era (which I think of as the “Free Agent” era of college athletics) but time will tell. (Sometimes I recall thinking that early recruiting would sideline Ivy relevance and then Yale won a national championship at the tail end of the early recruiting era.) So, for now, I will just enjoy getting to watch some of the great players (chief among them CJ Kirst) and great returning and new coaches (Jon Torpey joins Sean Kirwan as two intriguing leaders for Brown and Dartmouth respectively).

It’s still hard to imagine anybody shouldering aside Notre Dame and UVA to bring home the title — two extremely well coached programs with tons of talent returning and awash in incoming talent — but Notre Dame has to break in a new goalie and UVA has been good but not great at goalie and FOGO so perhaps those are the narrow avenues of attack for other programs.

early recruiting was never going to work out as a better formula for the bluebloods (they did just fine as a group, but not better overall and worse in individual cases).
would you rather you choose your recruits as freshmen or seniors? it's an easy answer.

yale is intriguing, especially at attack, but it'd seem defense needs to get better for them to be back in the mix. shay's a d guy. that's been odd, tho coaching turnover may be a part of it.

[mdk01]

Really liking seeing three Ivies in the top 10 and I hope all three play that way when spring 2025 rolls around. I do worry if Ivies can keep bringing in strong talent in the NIL/portal era (which I think of as the “Free Agent” era of college athletics) but time will tell. (Sometimes I recall thinking that early recruiting would sideline Ivy relevance and then Yale won a national championship at the tail end of the early recruiting era.) So, for now, I will just enjoy getting to watch some of the great players (chief among them CJ Kirst) and great returning and new coaches (Jon Torpey joins Sean Kirwan as two intriguing leaders for Brown and Dartmouth respectively).

It’s still hard to imagine anybody shouldering aside Notre Dame and UVA to bring home the title — two extremely well coached programs with tons of talent returning and awash in incoming talent — but Notre Dame has to break in a new goalie and UVA has been good but not great at goalie and FOGO so perhaps those are the narrow avenues of attack for other programs.

early recruiting was never going to work out as a better formula for the bluebloods (they did just fine as a group, but not better overall and worse in individual cases).
would you rather you choose your recruits as freshmen or seniors? it's an easy answer.

yale is intriguing, especially at attack, but it'd seem defense needs to get better for them to be back in the mix. shay's a d guy. that's been odd, tho coaching turnover may be a part of it.

If Yale stays healthy #8 is underrated.

[The Orfling]

Really liking seeing three Ivies in the top 10 and I hope all three play that way when spring 2025 rolls around. I do worry if Ivies can keep bringing in strong talent in the NIL/portal era (which I think of as the “Free Agent” era of college athletics) but time will tell. (Sometimes I recall thinking that early recruiting would sideline Ivy relevance and then Yale won a national championship at the tail end of the early recruiting era.) So, for now, I will just enjoy getting to watch some of the great players (chief among them CJ Kirst) and great returning and new coaches (Jon Torpey joins Sean Kirwan as two intriguing leaders for Brown and Dartmouth respectively).

It’s still hard to imagine anybody shouldering aside Notre Dame and UVA to bring home the title — two extremely well coached programs with tons of talent returning and awash in incoming talent — but Notre Dame has to break in a new goalie and UVA has been good but not great at goalie and FOGO so perhaps those are the narrow avenues of attack for other programs.

early recruiting was never going to work out as a better formula for the bluebloods (they did just fine as a group, but not better overall and worse in individual cases).
would you rather you choose your recruits as freshmen or seniors? it's an easy answer.

yale is intriguing, especially at attack, but it'd seem defense needs to get better for them to be back in the mix. shay's a d guy. that's been odd, tho coaching turnover may be a part of it.

If Yale stays healthy #8 is underrated.

I think I agree that “intriguing” is a good word for Yale. They will have a powerful (and perhaps somewhat underrated) offensive midfield and, health of Leo Johnson and Chris Lyons permitting, could have another very strong attack. One fun open question will be if Carson Kuhl stays on attack or goes back to midfield (is it wrong of me to want a “Special K line” of Kuhl, Keib, and Krevsky?). FOGO could be strong, health permitting (there’s that phrase again), as Mac Rodriguez was having a tremendous season in ‘24 prior to injury.

However, as others have noted, defense remains a question mark. Yale has good depth and experience at close defense and at LSM, but 3 out of the top 4 shorties have moved on (two to Hopkins for a COVID 5th year). That’s a big hole to fill for any team, but particularly when Yale’s goaltending was often average last year and the defense couldn’t necessarily count on the ‘tender to bail them out. I continue to think that systemically Yale is not as buttoned up as it could be but perhaps I’m out to lunch and it’s just a “live by the frenetic pace of play, die by the frenetic pace of play” situation and not much more. One possible difference maker on the defensive end? Yale has its highest rated goalie coming in in recent memory — perhaps he challenges the incumbent and Yale gets some additional stops there.

With a little injury luck, though, I think getting back to the NCAAs is very possible for Yale and then . . . Who knows? Will be a fun season with a lot of good storylines and, as always, great guys to root for.

[BigTom5]

Maryland too low at 6, didn’t they just dominate UVA and Princeton in May? UVA lost just as much.

Rutgers too high at 25, should be in the 30-40 range.

[FannOLax]

Really liking seeing three Ivies in the top 10 and I hope all three play that way when spring 2025 rolls around. I do worry if Ivies can keep bringing in strong talent in the NIL/portal era (which I think of as the “Free Agent” era of college athletics) but time will tell. (Sometimes I recall thinking that early recruiting would sideline Ivy relevance and then Yale won a national championship at the tail end of the early recruiting era.) So, for now, I will just enjoy getting to watch some of the great players (chief among them CJ Kirst) and great returning and new coaches (Jon Torpey joins Sean Kirwan as two intriguing leaders for Brown and Dartmouth respectively).

It’s still hard to imagine anybody shouldering aside Notre Dame and UVA to bring home the title — two extremely well coached programs with tons of talent returning and awash in incoming talent — but Notre Dame has to break in a new goalie and UVA has been good but not great at goalie and FOGO so perhaps those are the narrow avenues of attack for other programs.

early recruiting was never going to work out as a better formula for the bluebloods (they did just fine as a group, but not better overall and worse in individual cases).
would you rather you choose your recruits as freshmen or seniors? it's an easy answer.

yale is intriguing, especially at attack, but it'd seem defense needs to get better for them to be back in the mix. shay's a d guy. that's been odd, tho coaching turnover may be a part of it.

If Yale stays healthy #8 is underrated.

I think I agree that “intriguing” is a good word for Yale. They will have a powerful (and perhaps somewhat underrated) offensive midfield and, health of Leo Johnson and Chris Lyons permitting, could have another very strong attack. One fun open question will be if Carson Kuhl stays on attack or goes back to midfield (is it wrong of me to want a “Special K line” of Kuhl, Keib, and Krevsky?). FOGO could be strong, health permitting (there’s that phrase again), as Mac Rodriguez was having a tremendous season in ‘24 prior to injury.

However, as others have noted, defense remains a question mark. Yale has good depth and experience at close defense and at LSM, but 3 out of the top 4 shorties have moved on (two to Hopkins for a COVID 5th year). That’s a big hole to fill for any team, but particularly when Yale’s goaltending was often average last year and the defense couldn’t necessarily count on the ‘tender to bail them out. I continue to think that systemically Yale is not as buttoned up as it could be but perhaps I’m out to lunch and it’s just a “live by the frenetic pace of play, die by the frenetic pace of play” situation and not much more. One possible difference maker on the defensive end? Yale has its highest rated goalie coming in in recent memory — perhaps he challenges the incumbent and Yale gets some additional stops there.

With a little injury luck, though, I think getting back to the NCAAs is very possible for Yale and then . . . Who knows? Will be a fun season with a lot of good storylines and, as always, great guys to root for.

You've been dreaming of that "Special K" line for the better part of a year now, Orfling, and I can see the appeal. Staying healthy, with no major injuries and a spot of good luck, Yale could make some noise come May. But then, similar levels of optimism are justified for the Cornell and Princeton faithful. Throw in a promising new Head Coach at Brown, further progress at Dartmouth and a perenially tough Penn team, and 2025 could be a strong bounce-back year for the Ivy. Byrne hasn't really delivered yet at Harvard, notwithstanding the undefeated pre-Ivy stretch of the Crimson's 2024 schedule. Of course, Yale's defense has become a perenially preplexing post-2018 problem, so Princeton and especially Cornell merit their better rankings compared to Yale. The US Lax mag writer seems quite optimistic about Yale's potential, but living up to that potential.... well, we'll see.

[Farfromgeneva]

Really liking seeing three Ivies in the top 10 and I hope all three play that way when spring 2025 rolls around. I do worry if Ivies can keep bringing in strong talent in the NIL/portal era (which I think of as the “Free Agent” era of college athletics) but time will tell. (Sometimes I recall thinking that early recruiting would sideline Ivy relevance and then Yale won a national championship at the tail end of the early recruiting era.) So, for now, I will just enjoy getting to watch some of the great players (chief among them CJ Kirst) and great returning and new coaches (Jon Torpey joins Sean Kirwan as two intriguing leaders for Brown and Dartmouth respectively).

It’s still hard to imagine anybody shouldering aside Notre Dame and UVA to bring home the title — two extremely well coached programs with tons of talent returning and awash in incoming talent — but Notre Dame has to break in a new goalie and UVA has been good but not great at goalie and FOGO so perhaps those are the narrow avenues of attack for other programs.

early recruiting was never going to work out as a better formula for the bluebloods (they did just fine as a group, but not better overall and worse in individual cases).
would you rather you choose your recruits as freshmen or seniors? it's an easy answer.

yale is intriguing, especially at attack, but it'd seem defense needs to get better for them to be back in the mix. shay's a d guy. that's been odd, tho coaching turnover may be a part of it.

If Yale stays healthy #8 is underrated.

I think I agree that “intriguing” is a good word for Yale. They will have a powerful (and perhaps somewhat underrated) offensive midfield and, health of Leo Johnson and Chris Lyons permitting, could have another very strong attack. One fun open question will be if Carson Kuhl stays on attack or goes back to midfield (is it wrong of me to want a “Special K line” of Kuhl, Keib, and Krevsky?). FOGO could be strong, health permitting (there’s that phrase again), as Mac Rodriguez was having a tremendous season in ‘24 prior to injury.

However, as others have noted, defense remains a question mark. Yale has good depth and experience at close defense and at LSM, but 3 out of the top 4 shorties have moved on (two to Hopkins for a COVID 5th year). That’s a big hole to fill for any team, but particularly when Yale’s goaltending was often average last year and the defense couldn’t necessarily count on the ‘tender to bail them out. I continue to think that systemically Yale is not as buttoned up as it could be but perhaps I’m out to lunch and it’s just a “live by the frenetic pace of play, die by the frenetic pace of play” situation and not much more. One possible difference maker on the defensive end? Yale has its highest rated goalie coming in in recent memory — perhaps he challenges the incumbent and Yale gets some additional stops there.

With a little injury luck, though, I think getting back to the NCAAs is very possible for Yale and then . . . Who knows? Will be a fun season with a lot of good storylines and, as always, great guys to root for.

You've been dreaming of that "Special K" line for the better part of a year now, Orfling, and I can see the appeal. Staying healthy, with no major injuries and a spot of good luck, Yale could make some noise come May. But then, similar levels of optimism are justified for the Cornell and Princeton faithful. Throw in a promising new Head Coach at Brown, further progress at Dartmouth and a perenially tough Penn team, and 2025 could be a strong bounce-back year for the Ivy. Byrne hasn't really delivered yet at Harvard, notwithstanding the undefeated pre-Ivy stretch of the Crimson's 2024 schedule. Of course, Yale's defense has become a perenially preplexing post-2018 problem, so Princeton and especially Cornell merit their better rankings compared to Yale. The US Lax mag writer seems quite optimistic about Yale's potential, but living up to that potential.... well, we'll see.

Listen…there’s only one Special K

https://youtu.be/3EnBvV3PZzk?si=ulB6K_tRbwdL7jr8

[jhu06]

Some Top 20 by starts/scoring lost
1. Notre Dame 59/46
2. Cuse 30/46
3. Cornell 20/12
4. Princeton 12/9
5. uva 44/54
6. terps 47/57
7 Duke 48/70
8 yale 23/41
9 Hopkins 53/60
10 Denver 49/47
11 penn state 35/56
12 Towson 40/46
13 Michigan 47/51
14 Hoyas 67 /64
17 carolina 42/32
Obviously transfers coming in and recruits aren't counted to offset that but those are some astounding differences. This really has to be THE year for some kind of serious progress for GAIT at Syracuse and UNC with differences in losses between them and some of their rivals like Duke.

Cornell and Princeton really stand out with their lack of attrition. Going to be interesting to see if the veteran Ivy teams can roll up big ooc wins early against younger acc/big ten powers.

[JeremyCuse]

Some Top 20 by starts/scoring lost
1. Notre Dame 59/46
2. Cuse 30/46
3. Cornell 20/12
4. Princeton 12/9
5. uva 44/54
6. terps 47/57
7 Duke 48/70
8 yale 23/41
9 Hopkins 53/60
10 Denver 49/47
11 penn state 35/56
12 Towson 40/46
13 Michigan 47/51
14 Hoyas 67 /64
17 carolina 42/32
Obviously transfers coming in and recruits aren't counted to offset that but those are some astounding differences. This really has to be THE year for some kind of serious progress for GAIT at Syracuse and UNC with differences in losses between them and some of their rivals like Duke.

Cornell and Princeton really stand out with their lack of attrition. Going to be interesting to see if the veteran Ivy teams can roll up big ooc wins early against younger acc/big ten powers.

Clearly Cuse will need to reach the final four to have a successful season next year but not sure what you mean by " this really has to be the year for some kind of serious progress for Gait". Last years quarter final appearance and 3-1 ACC record is exactly that from a team that missed the tourney the previous two years. I might also add the quarters is as far as Milliman has reached as well, perhaps he also has to make some serious progress? See how dumb that sounds.

[coda]

Really liking seeing three Ivies in the top 10 and I hope all three play that way when spring 2025 rolls around. I do worry if Ivies can keep bringing in strong talent in the NIL/portal era (which I think of as the “Free Agent” era of college athletics) but time will tell. (Sometimes I recall thinking that early recruiting would sideline Ivy relevance and then Yale won a national championship at the tail end of the early recruiting era.) So, for now, I will just enjoy getting to watch some of the great players (chief among them CJ Kirst) and great returning and new coaches (Jon Torpey joins Sean Kirwan as two intriguing leaders for Brown and Dartmouth respectively).

It’s still hard to imagine anybody shouldering aside Notre Dame and UVA to bring home the title — two extremely well coached programs with tons of talent returning and awash in incoming talent — but Notre Dame has to break in a new goalie and UVA has been good but not great at goalie and FOGO so perhaps those are the narrow avenues of attack for other programs.

early recruiting was never going to work out as a better formula for the bluebloods (they did just fine as a group, but not better overall and worse in individual cases).
would you rather you choose your recruits as freshmen or seniors? it's an easy answer.

yale is intriguing, especially at attack, but it'd seem defense needs to get better for them to be back in the mix. shay's a d guy. that's been odd, tho coaching turnover may be a part of it.

If Yale stays healthy #8 is underrated.

At this pt Yale is a show me school for me. Defense has been consistently bad, so I am going to need to see on the field before I change my opinion

[wgdsr]

you're always gonna have some... different takes...as lacrosse fans and media look to assess the offseason and next year. this year's notable with all the 5th year covid guys finishing up with the regular 4th years.

lot of spots open.

me, i wouldn't be making one of my 2 calculations be based on a cursory look at hoo was listed as a "starter". there's no fewer than 14 "starters" in a lacrosse game. 6 offense, 7 d and a fogo. depending on how much you use or balance depth for a 2nd mid line or rope unit, maybe more. o and d are equally important, not just because teams usually list o-mids as starters. top faceoff guy usually matters, too.

hoo knows what and where they got info in 'cuse's case. by the book, they lost mark and mule as starters. they also lose stevens (maybe he's been moved to starter by il), and in their top 14 kohn and lsm (both top guys). so call it 4.5/5 out of 14.
for offense lost, looks like they're expecting english to not be back, that might be news to 'cuse fans. as it stands, they'll probably be losing about 25% of scoring, just over 100 points not 139 and their denominator is 432, not 300 as that's actually what their d gave up.

[HopFan16]

Stevens' starts/scoring lost figures are riddled with errors. I would not put much stock in those numbers.

I'm with coda on Yale as I've mentioned over in the Hop thread — should be a solid offense even without Brandau, but there's little reason for optimism about the defense. Fool me once etc. etc.

I don't buy Towson over teams like Georgetown or Michigan. GTown loses top four scorers which is tough but has earned the benefit of the doubt as a top 10-12 team IMO. Michigan brings back a decent amount and added a lot through the portal, coming off back-to-back B1G tourney titles.

[jhu06]

you're always gonna have some... different takes...as lacrosse fans and media look to assess the offseason and next year. this year's notable with all the 5th year covid guys finishing up with the regular 4th years.

lot of spots open.

me, i wouldn't be making one of my 2 calculations be based on a cursory look at hoo was listed as a "starter". there's no fewer than 14 "starters" in a lacrosse game. 6 offense, 7 d and a fogo. depending on how much you use or balance depth for a 2nd mid line or rope unit, maybe more. o and d are equally important, not just because teams usually list o-mids as starters. top faceoff guy usually matters, too.

hoo knows what and where they got info in 'cuse's case. by the book, they lost mark and mule as starters. they also lose stevens (maybe he's been moved to starter by il), and in their top 14 kohn and lsm (both top guys). so call it 4.5/5 out of 14.
for offense lost, looks like they're expecting english to not be back, that might be news to 'cuse fans. as it stands, they'll probably be losing about 25% of scoring, just over 100 points not 139 and their denominator is 432, not 300 as that's actually what their d gave up.

yes in the future adding gbs/faceoffs won/saves lost would be important to add with starts/scoring/top 100 freshman recruits/incoming transfers. still those are good ballpark numbers.

[XLdad]

Yale stats very misleading as Lyons ...Johnson...AND Brad Sharp...that makes up for All the lost scoring and then some...also adds ALOT of starts back in the lineup...

[XLdad]

Yale stats very misleading as Lyons ...Johnson...AND Brad Sharp..are all back and healthy...that makes up for All the lost scoring and then some...also adds ALOT of starts back in the lineup...

[coda]

Yale stats very misleading as Lyons ...Johnson...AND Brad Sharp..are all back and healthy...that makes up for All the lost scoring and then some...also adds ALOT of starts back in the lineup...

You can say that again

[Antonio114]

you're always gonna have some... different takes...as lacrosse fans and media look to assess the offseason and next year. this year's notable with all the 5th year covid guys finishing up with the regular 4th years.

lot of spots open.

me, i wouldn't be making one of my 2 calculations be based on a cursory look at hoo was listed as a "starter". there's no fewer than 14 "starters" in a lacrosse game. 6 offense, 7 d and a fogo. depending on how much you use or balance depth for a 2nd mid line or rope unit, maybe more. o and d are equally important, not just because teams usually list o-mids as starters. top faceoff guy usually matters, too.

hoo knows what and where they got info in 'cuse's case. by the book, they lost mark and mule as starters. they also lose stevens (maybe he's been moved to starter by il), and in their top 14 kohn and lsm (both top guys). so call it 4.5/5 out of 14.
for offense lost, looks like they're expecting english to not be back, that might be news to 'cuse fans. as it stands, they'll probably be losing about 25% of scoring, just over 100 points not 139 and their denominator is 432, not 300 as that's actually what their d gave up.

English has one more year at Cuse. They are just wrong about that if they added him in their calculations.