2024

[a fan]

That's right. And if the game is that political parties get to make stuff up about what someone "implied"....fine by me.

Let's play that stupid petty game: Vance could have clarified that he wasn't in combat when he was bragging about serving in Iraq, and intentionally left that part out, trying to look like a war hero while taking swipes at Walz for being too chicken to go.

This is where we want our conversations to sink to in America? I'm happy to play along. And I'll do this with every politician who was stupid enough to serve their country's military....they all deserve the Walz Treatment. This is the bar THEY want? Fine.

But he did not see combat while he was there.

Yep. Just as he implied incorrectly.....in short, Vance misled the American people, as suspected.

What a POS. I can't believe he's running for office.

He implied nothing. I've given you what Vance said & wrote. You're playing dumb, unconvincingly. For effect.

Don't care what you say.

He absolutely implied that. Don't care what your opinion is, especially where it's your usual game of handing the forum your opinion, and thinking you're handing us a fact.

He implied he was in combat in Iraq. That's it. Nothing to argue about. You set the stupid rules, not us.

You're an ungrateful POS for condemning a vet who deployed with his unit to a war zone, accepted the risk, completed his tour of duty & did not embellish or misrepresent his service.

Nope. Veterans are bad. And we must hold them to a bar that we don't hold Kamala or Trump to, remember?

And Vance left his fellow soldiers out to dry by only serving for a piddly four years. What about his fellow Troops who kept serving.....Vance let them serve for him.

This is the path YOU asked for, not me. Happy to do what you tell us to do, OS. I get to tell you what Vance "implied"....and hit him for not serving long enough.

[Typical Lax Dad]

That's right. And if the game is that political parties get to make stuff up about what someone "implied"....fine by me.

Let's play that stupid petty game: Vance could have clarified that he wasn't in combat when he was bragging about serving in Iraq, and intentionally left that part out, trying to look like a war hero while taking swipes at Walz for being too chicken to go.

This is where we want our conversations to sink to in America? I'm happy to play along. And I'll do this with every politician who was stupid enough to serve their country's military....they all deserve the Walz Treatment. This is the bar THEY want? Fine.

But he did not see combat while he was there.

Yep. Just as he implied incorrectly.....in short, Vance misled the American people, as suspected.

What a POS. I can't believe he's running for office.

He implied nothing. I've given you what Vance said & wrote. You're playing dumb, unconvincingly. For effect.

Don't care what you say.

He absolutely implied that. Don't care what your opinion is, especially where it's your usual game of handing the forum your opinion, and thinking you're handing us a fact.

He implied he was in combat in Iraq. That's it. Nothing to argue about. You set the stupid rules, not us.

You're an ungrateful POS for condemning a vet who deployed with his unit to a war zone, accepted the risk, completed his tour of duty & did not embellish or misrepresent his service.

Nope. Veterans are bad. And we must hold them to a bar that we don't hold Kamala or Trump to, remember?

And Vance left his fellow soldiers out to dry by only serving for a piddly four years. What about his fellow Troops who kept serving.....Vance let them serve for him.

This is the path YOU asked for, not me. Happy to do what you tell us to do, OS. I get to tell you what Vance "implied"....and hit him for not serving long enough.

And Vance wanted no part of combat. Let someone else do the fighting for him.

[Kismet]

And Vance wanted no part of combat. Let someone else do the fighting for him.

oops

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jd-vance- ... thed-photo

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/jd ... r-AA1oSAJk

[cradleandshoot]

Nice that you’re working overtime to disparage another serviceman. Such a surprise.

I'm surprised by what's coming to light & the MSM isn't ferreting it out.
I was working overtime to dig up factual evidence that defended Walz. I gave him every benefit of the doubt.
I admired his story & was looking to validate it. He didn't need to embellish it. He apparently served admirably.
Looks like I may have gotten out over my skis. His campaign press kit ? I can't believe Holder missed that or thought they could deny it.
obtw -- after you serve two years, your pension increases 2,5%/yr. It dovetails nicely with a career as a school teacher or member of Congress or state legislator.

Sorry, but you really are completely full of sh*t. And you know it, and everyone here knows you know it.

The benefit of the doubt would be simply to credit the fact that he served for 24 years, rather than getting on the subjective swift boat train that you have boarded. Will you be talking about Trump's service? About his relentless lying and gaslighting to work his way into becoming the Commander-in-Chief of folks like Walz? About his debasing treatment of women and people of color in the course of his lifetime? About his mockery of veterans? About his mockery of disabled people? About his blindingly obvious diminished and diminishing mental acuity? About his astonishingly demented "press conference" yesterday?

“And don’t forget they sell hats.”

Big difference between Kerry & Walz. Unlike Swift boats, no combat duty involved, no fabrications or exaggerations to earn combat awards. Walz served admirably.

Trump's non-service is irrelevant, unless you include everyone of his generation who was 4F or used a student deferment.

Vance has never implied that he saw combat. He did deploy to a war zone & was at risk as a result. He does not brag about his weapons training or that he carried a rifle when embedded & operating "outside the wire"...even though Every Marine is a rifleman.

Walz is a master communicator. That's why he's a VP candidate. As a HS social studies teacher, HS FB Coach, & a Master Sergeant (E-8) functioning as a Command Sergeant Major (E-9 assignment) he knows how to explain his service in a way that can't be misconstrued that he saw combat duty, deployed to Afghanistan, or was not aware of his unit's coming deployment to Iraq when he elected to retire.
I would not call it Stolen Valor.

Totsl BS. No equivalence at all,

To be clear Walz was retired before the order to his unit was received. Vance is a POS. His Hillbilly elegy is pretty much a fraud. He is a chameleon for sale.

There are people in the chain of command in his unit that were aware in November that the unit was scheduled to be deployed. That will be looked at by both sides quite differently. The retired SM was in no way obligated to deploy and I respect his decision to retire when he did. There is also a part of me that wishes he had chosen to do so. He was never obligated to deploy and I can honestly understand why. He had decided it was time to end his military career and move on to something else.

Almost correct.

Given the war was dragging on and on, of course there were rumors that another deployment could be happening at some future point, but no one knew when and no one knew where. Walz had already deployed once because of the war, just didn't happen to be in the combat zone. Left his family and school behind to serve when called. After 24 years, well beyond retirement age for pension, having stayed in post 9-11, Walz felt a desire to serve his country in a different way, as encouraged by his students. He made that decision way before any sort of sharpening of expected timing of a future deployment, much less location, was available. And he wrestled for a bit with the question as to whether he could fairly campaign for Congress if he was going to get called to deploy, regardless of where. He realized he needed to do formal retirement because of that choice.

One thing that seems a bit lost is that Walz opposed the war in Iraq, thought it was mistake. Part of his decision to go to Congress was to be able to speak against continuing in that war. He says he felt he could do more for the country in that role than continuing in the Guard. Whether one agrees with that view or not, it's an entirely honorable position.

Thanks for posting that. One thing I agree with the retired SM about...the war in Iraq was a huge mistake that has had an ongoing negative effect on our country that still predominates to this day. Too many service members died and suffered life altering injuries. Too many service members will struggle with PTSD and the plethora of side effects of what they witnessed for the rest of their lives. All of this happened because of a fools errand and poor decision making by our leaders.

[Typical Lax Dad]

And Vance wanted no part of combat. Let someone else do the fighting for him.

oops

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jd-vance- ... thed-photo

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/jd ... r-AA1oSAJk

Was he really a Marine? Public Affairs (PA) Marines in the United States Marine Corps (USMC) act as a liaison between the public and the Marines. Their mission is to inform the public about what the Marines are doing. You could argue he was in a space between the public and the marines. He may have been Marine adjacent.

[cradleandshoot]

And Vance wanted no part of combat. Let someone else do the fighting for him.

oops

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jd-vance- ... thed-photo

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/jd ... r-AA1oSAJk

Was he really a Marine? Public Affairs (PA) Marines in the United States Marine Corps (USMC) act as a liaison between the public and the Marines. Their mission is to inform the public about what the Marines are doing. You could argue he was in a space between the public and the marines. He may have been Marine adjacent.

He may also have been an undercover CIA sniper on a top secret mission to assasinate a high priority target.
Pretending to me a Marine public affairs guy was part of his cover. Why not this scenario since the forum members are meandering into the land of absurdity? Sometimes sarcasm works and other times not so much.

[Seacoaster(1)]

And Vance wanted no part of combat. Let someone else do the fighting for him.

oops

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jd-vance- ... thed-photo

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/jd ... r-AA1oSAJk

Was he really a Marine? Public Affairs (PA) Marines in the United States Marine Corps (USMC) act as a liaison between the public and the Marines. Their mission is to inform the public about what the Marines are doing. You could argue he was in a space between the public and the marines. He may have been Marine adjacent.

He may also have been an undercover CIA sniper on a top secret mission to assasinate a high priority target.
Pretending to me a Marine public affairs guy was part of his cover. Why not this scenario since the forum members are meandering into the land of absurdity? Sometimes sarcasm works and other times not so much.

I'm wondering if he's even an American.

[njbill]

Good question. I haven’t seen his birth certificate.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Good question. I haven’t seen his birth certificate.

Exactly. Birtherism is totally allowed.

Where are you from? What's this NJ bullsh*t?

[cradleandshoot]

And Vance wanted no part of combat. Let someone else do the fighting for him.

oops

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jd-vance- ... thed-photo

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/jd ... r-AA1oSAJk

Was he really a Marine? Public Affairs (PA) Marines in the United States Marine Corps (USMC) act as a liaison between the public and the Marines. Their mission is to inform the public about what the Marines are doing. You could argue he was in a space between the public and the marines. He may have been Marine adjacent.

He may also have been an undercover CIA sniper on a top secret mission to assasinate a high priority target.
Pretending to me a Marine public affairs guy was part of his cover. Why not this scenario since the forum members are meandering into the land of absurdity? Sometimes sarcasm works and other times not so much.

I'm wondering if he's even an American.

He might even be an alien!!

[Typical Lax Dad]

[cradleandshoot]

I only thought rednecks were only funny after a jug of corn liquor?

[MDlaxfan76]

JD doubles down, getting his history from a dramatic movie... "Have you ever seen the movie Gangs of New York?"


JD, JD... https://www.prb.org/resources/trends-in ... o-the-u-s/

But getting it all wrong, from the timing of multiple waves to the actual message of the movie re nativism:

https://www.rawstory.com/jd-vance-irish-immigrants/

Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance argued Friday in favor of immigration policy that “promotes assimilation” and doubled down on the idea that unchecked influxes of immigration could foster “ethnic conflicts” when pressed about his previous comments about 20th century immigration waves.

A reporter asked the Ohio senator about comments that he made in a 2021 podcast interview suggesting that previous waves of immigration from Europe promoted “inter-ethnic” conflict in the US.

Vance at the time said: “You had this massive wave of Italian, Irish, and German immigration, right? And that had its problems, its consequences. You had higher crime rates, you had these ethnic enclaves, you had inter-ethnic conflict in the country where you really hadn’t had that before.”
Responding to the reporter on Friday, Vance said, “I also said there were a lot of benefits to that wave of immigration,” adding, “But has anybody ever seen the movie ‘Gangs of New York?’ That’s what I’m talking about,” referring to the film featuring strife between Irish immigrants and anti-immigrant gangs.

He continued: “We know that when you have these massive ethnic enclaves forming in our country, it can sometimes lead to higher crime rates. What we want is an American immigration policy that promotes assimilation.”
“What happens when you have massive amounts of illegal immigration, it actually starts to create ethnic conflict,” he added.

Vance argued in order to address the issue as it currently stands, “we’ve got to slow those illegal immigration levels to zero.”

“We do have to deport some people who have come here illegally, and I think that will promote assimilation and a common American culture that’s in the best interest of everybody,” he said, adding the reason why he thinks he and his wife, Usha, the daughter of Indian immigrants, have a good marriage is because “we both very much feel like America is our home, like our children belong here.”



The podcast host is apparently a real fine fella too:

https://newrepublic.com/post/184936/jd- ... cated-rape

[old salt]

Salty's perpetuation of those smears is dishonorable in the same way.

And enormously hypocritical.

So, that's what is being challenged here.

BS....running down the facts behind Walz's claims about his service is not a smear. You just don't like the facts that have emerged, so you try to suppress them by attacking & smearing whoever brings forward the facts.

FTR -- I have said from the outset that I don't question Walz's decision to retire when he did & I do not consider his ambiguous & misleading descriptions of his service to be stolen valor. Just shady political spin.

[Kismet]

JD doubles down, getting his history from a dramatic movie... "Have you ever seen the movie Gangs of New York?"


JD, JD... https://www.prb.org/resources/trends-in ... o-the-u-s/

But getting it all wrong, from the timing of multiple waves to the actual message of the movie re nativism:

https://www.rawstory.com/jd-vance-irish-immigrants/

Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance argued Friday in favor of immigration policy that “promotes assimilation” and doubled down on the idea that unchecked influxes of immigration could foster “ethnic conflicts” when pressed about his previous comments about 20th century immigration waves.

A reporter asked the Ohio senator about comments that he made in a 2021 podcast interview suggesting that previous waves of immigration from Europe promoted “inter-ethnic” conflict in the US.

Vance at the time said: “You had this massive wave of Italian, Irish, and German immigration, right? And that had its problems, its consequences. You had higher crime rates, you had these ethnic enclaves, you had inter-ethnic conflict in the country where you really hadn’t had that before.”
Responding to the reporter on Friday, Vance said, “I also said there were a lot of benefits to that wave of immigration,” adding, “But has anybody ever seen the movie ‘Gangs of New York?’ That’s what I’m talking about,” referring to the film featuring strife between Irish immigrants and anti-immigrant gangs.

He continued: “We know that when you have these massive ethnic enclaves forming in our country, it can sometimes lead to higher crime rates. What we want is an American immigration policy that promotes assimilation.”
“What happens when you have massive amounts of illegal immigration, it actually starts to create ethnic conflict,” he added.

Vance argued in order to address the issue as it currently stands, “we’ve got to slow those illegal immigration levels to zero.”

“We do have to deport some people who have come here illegally, and I think that will promote assimilation and a common American culture that’s in the best interest of everybody,” he said, adding the reason why he thinks he and his wife, Usha, the daughter of Indian immigrants, have a good marriage is because “we both very much feel like America is our home, like our children belong here.”



The podcast host is apparently a real fine fella too:

https://newrepublic.com/post/184936/jd- ... cated-rape

He should have read The Guarded Gate by Daniel Okrent

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/20/book ... krent.html

We have demonizing immigrants in this country almost from its founding - first the Irish, then Germans, Asians and ultimately got around to Italians and other Southern and Eastern Europeans. Exploitation for cheap labor followed by bigotry and discrimination. Fold in Jews and Catholics as well.

Vance is just another neanderthal moron. Hard to believe he's married to a child of immigrants

[a fan]

That's right. And if the game is that political parties get to make stuff up about what someone "implied"....fine by me.

Let's play that stupid petty game: Vance could have clarified that he wasn't in combat when he was bragging about serving in Iraq, and intentionally left that part out, trying to look like a war hero while taking swipes at Walz for being too chicken to go.

This is where we want our conversations to sink to in America? I'm happy to play along. And I'll do this with every politician who was stupid enough to serve their country's military....they all deserve the Walz Treatment. This is the bar THEY want? Fine.

But he did not see combat while he was there.

Yep. Just as he implied incorrectly.....in short, Vance misled the American people, as suspected.

What a POS. I can't believe he's running for office.

He implied nothing. I've given you what Vance said & wrote. You're playing dumb, unconvincingly. For effect.

Don't care what you say.

He absolutely implied that. Don't care what your opinion is, especially where it's your usual game of handing the forum your opinion, and thinking you're handing us a fact.

He implied he was in combat in Iraq. That's it. Nothing to argue about. You set the stupid rules, not us.

You're an ungrateful POS for condemning a vet who deployed with his unit to a war zone, accepted the risk, completed his tour of duty & did not embellish or misrepresent his service.

Nope. Veterans are bad. And we must hold them to a bar that we don't hold Kamala or Trump to, remember?

And Vance left his fellow soldiers out to dry by only serving for a piddly four years. What about his fellow Troops who kept serving.....Vance let them serve for him.

This is the path YOU asked for, not me. Happy to do what you tell us to do, OS. I get to tell you what Vance "implied"....and hit him for not serving long enough.

And Vance wanted no part of combat. Let someone else do the fighting for him.

That's so weak. What about the service men who fought in his place while he enjoyed the air conditioned rear guard, all while Vance implied he was fighting along side them?

Boy, good thing we're only throwing stones at Veterans, and totally ignoring candidates who didn't serve at all.

[old salt]

Nice that you’re working overtime to disparage another serviceman. Such a surprise.

I'm surprised by what's coming to light & the MSM isn't ferreting it out.
I was working overtime to dig up factual evidence that defended Walz. I gave him every benefit of the doubt.
I admired his story & was looking to validate it. He didn't need to embellish it. He apparently served admirably.
Looks like I may have gotten out over my skis. His campaign press kit ? I can't believe Holder missed that or thought they could deny it.
obtw -- after you serve two years, your pension increases 2,5%/yr. It dovetails nicely with a career as a school teacher or member of Congress or state legislator.

Sorry, but you really are completely full of sh*t. And you know it, and everyone here knows you know it.

The benefit of the doubt would be simply to credit the fact that he served for 24 years, rather than getting on the subjective swift boat train that you have boarded. Will you be talking about Trump's service? About his relentless lying and gaslighting to work his way into becoming the Commander-in-Chief of folks like Walz? About his debasing treatment of women and people of color in the course of his lifetime? About his mockery of veterans? About his mockery of disabled people? About his blindingly obvious diminished and diminishing mental acuity? About his astonishingly demented "press conference" yesterday?

“And don’t forget they sell hats.”

Big difference between Kerry & Walz. Unlike Swift boats, no combat duty involved, no fabrications or exaggerations to earn combat awards. Walz served admirably.

Trump's non-service is irrelevant, unless you include everyone of his generation who was 4F or used a student deferment.

Vance has never implied that he saw combat. He did deploy to a war zone & was at risk as a result. He does not brag about his weapons training or that he carried a rifle when embedded & operating "outside the wire"...even though Every Marine is a rifleman.

Walz is a master communicator. That's why he's a VP candidate. As a HS social studies teacher, HS FB Coach, & a Master Sergeant (E-8) functioning as a Command Sergeant Major (E-9 assignment) he knows how to explain his service in a way that can't be misconstrued that he saw combat duty, deployed to Afghanistan, or was not aware of his unit's coming deployment to Iraq when he elected to retire.
I would not call it Stolen Valor.

Totsl BS. No equivalence at all,

To be clear Walz was retired before the order to his unit was received. Vance is a POS. His Hillbilly elegy is pretty much a fraud. He is a chameleon for sale.

There are people in the chain of command in his unit that were aware in November that the unit was scheduled to be deployed. That will be looked at by both sides quite differently. The retired SM was in no way obligated to deploy and I respect his decision to retire when he did. There is also a part of me that wishes he had chosen to do so. He was never obligated to deploy and I can honestly understand why. He had decided it was time to end his military career and move on to something else.

Almost correct.

Given the war was dragging on and on, of course there were rumors that another deployment could be happening at some future point, but no one knew when and no one knew where. Walz had already deployed once because of the war, just didn't happen to be in the combat zone. Left his family and school behind to serve when called. After 24 years, well beyond retirement age for pension, having stayed in post 9-11, Walz felt a desire to serve his country in a different way, as encouraged by his students. He made that decision way before any sort of sharpening of expected timing of a future deployment, much less location, was available. And he wrestled for a bit with the question as to whether he could fairly campaign for Congress if he was going to get called to deploy, regardless of where. He realized he needed to do formal retirement because of that choice.

One thing that seems a bit lost is that Walz opposed the war in Iraq, thought it was mistake. Part of his decision to go to Congress was to be able to speak against continuing in that war. He says he felt he could do more for the country in that role than continuing in the Guard. Whether one agrees with that view or not, it's an entirely honorable position.

In early campaign statements, Walz has admitted that he was preparing his unit for deployment to Iraq. They had been given a heads up & told to prepare. It could have always been changed, up until the final order was issued, but they knew what was coming & were told to prepare for it. Walz reached a fork in the road & chose his path forward. He should own it & not allow his campaign & supporters to obfuscate the facts.

[old salt]

And Vance wanted no part of combat. Let someone else do the fighting for him.

That's so weak. What about the service men who fought in his place while he enjoyed the air conditioned rear guard, all while Vance implied he was fighting along side them?

Boy, good thing we're only throwing stones at Veterans, and totally ignoring candidates who didn't serve at all.

That's just BS & you know it. THAT is slandering a Marine who served in a combat zone -- Iraq. He was doing his assigned tasks, within his MOS. He was doing the job he was assigned to do. His base, Al Asad was under attack then & still is now. He went outside the wire to Iraqi villages, embedded in civil affairs teams who were vulnerable to IEDs, snipers, & suicide terrorists. They were in Anbar proviince, the most dangerous part of Iraq at the most dangerous time of the war. The Marines in Anbar took significant casualties at that time.

By playing your stupid games, you are dishonoring the voluntary service of a Marine who served in a combat zone during a dangerous portion of the war. Tell us more about all that you have done to support veterans of that war.

[Kismet]

In early campaign statements, Walz has admitted that e was preparing his unit for deployment to Iraq. They had been given a heads up & told to prepare. It could have always been changed, up until the final order was issued, but they knew what was coming & were told to prepare for it. Walz reached a fork in the road & chose his path forward. He should own it & not allow his campaign & supporters to obfuscate the facts.

How exactly do you have possession and confirmation of all of the "facts" here - were you there?

You claim this all of the time here and hard to believe you know all of the "facts" on every issue you comment on

[a fan]

And Vance wanted no part of combat. Let someone else do the fighting for him.

That's so weak. What about the service men who fought in his place while he enjoyed the air conditioned rear guard, all while Vance implied he was fighting along side them?

Boy, good thing we're only throwing stones at Veterans, and totally ignoring candidates who didn't serve at all.

That's just BS & you know it. THAT is slandering a Marine who served in a combat zone -- Iraq. He was doing his assigned tasks, within his MOS. He was doing the job he was assigned to do.

You set the rules, not me. You LOVE the game when it's a Dem and have now spent PAGES throwing stones at Walz....and here you're losing your sh8t when your petty sad game of slagging off a Vet who "implied" he fought in combat" because he's a R.

You're not fooling anyone with your nonsense. Dem Vets are bad. R vets are good. Every single poster have watching you play this sad game over and over and over and over again.

So don't yell at me because YOU told the Forum that it's perfectly reasonable to go after a Vet for what they "implied" about their service.

Next time Walz comes along? STFU after thanking him for his 24 years of service. Not a word.

Or....buckle up buttercup as we apply your BS to (gasp) your precious Republican party.

As for what I do with military charity? Unlike you, I don't ask them if they are a Dem or a Republican before donating.

You do this to yourself. How many reasonable posters do you need to hear from before you stop doing this. Even Dmac told you to stop with your sh(ttalking with Walz. You paid him no mind.