2024

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cradleandshoot
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Re: 2024

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:01 am Good lord, even this hit piece posted by Salty, when read closely, reaffirms that what Walz actually claimed was accurate.

He told the truth about it contemporaneously that he did not go to Iraq, he went to Italy...in support of that war. He did go overseas and it was in support of the war on terror. And specifically the war in Afghanistan.

Can the phrasing taken out of context be misread as a claim that he went to Afghanistan? Yes. But that's obviously not what he was claiming contemporaneously, publicly, so one has to be trying to misread to get claim otherwise.

Extremely unlikely missed this in vetting, it had been reported on as a hit issue way back in 2006 and been dismissed as just that, political dirty hits. And they didn't work.
So the CSM artillery battalion was deployed to Iraq and their CSM did long distance support from Italy?? Could he directly supervise their training and qualification range firing from Italy? He must have had one hell of a pair of binoculars. :D I don't know what SOP is in a national guard battalion. In my experience when we had a battalion level deployment we normally became a task force. That was so because other units were attached to our battalion. Those units would vary depending on the mission. When we were deployed to JOTC in Panama every attached unit came with us. I find it odd that the senior ranking NCO of this unit was located a 1000 miles away from his men and their equipment. Was their battalion commander also operating out of Italy? In the piece that OS posted the CSM not deploying with his soldiers left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. I'm certain that in the coming weeks more people that served with the CSM during this time frame will have their opinions to share. I do know when my battalion deployed to Panama in 1980 our battalion SM was right there leading PT every morning we had a formation.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: 2024

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

DMac wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:25 am Read it the same way MDlax.
This dirty politics digging, twisting, accusing, and misrepresenting is revolting.
Vance (the tough guy Marine) says Walz abandoned his unit. No he didn't, he retired.
Accusing him of stolen valor is below the belt slandering but he's Trump's running mate
so not at all surprising.
Yup. They know they are lying.

I've watched a couple of different interviews with those who have served with him. Probably the best was the one with a guy who said he opposed Walz politically but is offended by the untrue attacks on him, his motivations, and service.

But last night I watched a revealing one of a guy who says he was Walz's immediate supervisor, who claimed that Walz "quit" his unit AFTER he learned that there was going to be a deployment...somewhere (they definitely hadn't been given actual orders, just a heads up that sometime in the next year (actually two years) they were likely to be called, so get your team ready)...and that he'd previously told him that he was staying with the unit...even after telling him a couple of months prior that he'd decided to run for Congress. mmm... The guy tried, rather disjointedly and unconvincingly, to take the interviewer through the timeline as if it proved why he was right, but what I heard was actually consistent with Walz's campaign's timeline that he'd decided to run for Congress and knew that was going to mean needing to choose to retire if NG duties were going to take him away from that effort.

The guy claimed that Walz had "gone around him" to be "allowed" to "quit". The interviewer eventually challenged the repletion of the word "quit"...the guy backed off that a bit, saying "that's how it came to me, that he quit". He claimed that it Walz was acting outside of protocol...I wanted the interviewer to ask him directly if he thought he actually had the power to deny Walz the right to retire and whether he'd have tried to do so...the guy seemed to say that Walz had that right after 20 years, but not clearly recognizing it wasn't the guy's call, it was Walz's. The one thing that seemed "new" was this guys' claim that Walz had told him that he was staying with the unit and then he was surprised that he had actually "quit"...the claim that he'd told him he was sticking through any deployment seemed really false to me...is it intentional lying or was it just this guy being somewhat addled?

One of my early reactions in the interview was 'wow, this guy was actually in some leadership position?' Really poor communicator, obviously partisan, but with a pretense of being calm...but not recognizing that his story didn't actually hold up.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: 2024

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:43 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:01 am Good lord, even this hit piece posted by Salty, when read closely, reaffirms that what Walz actually claimed was accurate.

He told the truth about it contemporaneously that he did not go to Iraq, he went to Italy...in support of that war. He did go overseas and it was in support of the war on terror. And specifically the war in Afghanistan.

Can the phrasing taken out of context be misread as a claim that he went to Afghanistan? Yes. But that's obviously not what he was claiming contemporaneously, publicly, so one has to be trying to misread to get claim otherwise.

Extremely unlikely missed this in vetting, it had been reported on as a hit issue way back in 2006 and been dismissed as just that, political dirty hits. And they didn't work.
So the CSM artillery battalion was deployed to Iraq and their CSM did long distance support from Italy?? Could he directly supervise their training and qualification range firing from Italy? He must have had one hell of a pair of binoculars. :D I don't know what SOP is in a national guard battalion. In my experience when we had a battalion level deployment we normally became a task force. That was so because other units were attached to our battalion. Those units would vary depending on the mission. When we were deployed to JOTC in Panama every attached unit came with us. I find it odd that the senior ranking NCO of this unit was located a 1000 miles away from his men and their equipment. Was their battalion commander also operating out of Italy? In the piece that OS posted the CSM not deploying with his soldiers left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. I'm certain that in the coming weeks more people that served with the CSM during this time frame will have their opinions to share. I do know when my battalion deployed to Panama in 1980 our battalion SM was right there leading PT every morning we had a formation.
sheesh, his unit went well after he had retired.
They had previously gone to Italy in a support role.
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Re: 2024

Post by ggait »

old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 3:33 am Ouch ! It's getting harder to defend Walz's characterizations of his military record. His service, on it's own, was distinguished enough without the need to embellish it or leave a false impression. I can't believe Eric Holder missed this. He should have added Wes Clark to his vetting team.
https://freebeacon.com/elections/tim-wa ... -2006-run/

Tim Walz Promoted Media Misrepresentations of His Military Service in 2006 Run
Incident adds to pattern of deceptiveness around Walz’s military service

Joseph Simonson, August 8, 2024

Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz touted misleading descriptions of his military service during his 2006 congressional run, according to a media kit he distributed at the time obtained by the Washington Free Beacon.

Media kits, or press packets, are standard practice for candidates who seek to introduce themselves to the electorate and often feature a variety of news stories or interviews. In Walz’s case, he hoped to emphasize his public service as both a public school teacher and veteran.

But two of the articles Walz selected gave the impression that he served overseas in Afghanistan. That decision adds to a growing pattern of incidents in which Walz either misrepresented his military service or promoted others’ misrepresentations of it.

A March 20, 2006, Wall Street Journal report included in the kit states that Walz "served overseas during the early war in Afghanistan." Walz told the paper that the Iraq war is "not something that is a political game."

Another, from the January/February 2006 edition of The Atlantic, describes Walz as "a command sergeant major who’d just returned from fighting the war on terrorism." The piece goes on to characterize Walz as one of the "number of veterans from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq" who were running for Congress that year.

Walz, now the Democratic vice presidential nominee, did not serve in either Afghanistan or Iraq, and his title of command sergeant major was revoked after he left the service just two months before his National Guard battalion was informed of a future deployment to Iraq. Walz was stationed overseas in Italy from August 2003 to April 2004.

Vice President Kamala Harris’s presidential campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

That Walz was not sent to a war zone came as a relief to him. In 2003, he told a local paper that "in the big scheme of deployments, this probably isn’t too bad. I thought we might end up in Iraq."

Throughout Walz’s first congressional campaign, he leaned heavily into his military service. As the Free Beacon reported Wednesday, Walz released a statement in March 2005 that he fully planned to continue his campaign in Iraq after hearing that his battalion was on the shortlist to deploy there.

"As Command Sergeant Major, I have a responsibility not only to ready my battalion for Iraq but also to serve if called on," he said.

Other press releases from the time, obtained by the Free Beacon and available on archived versions of Walz’s campaign website, implied Walz served in Iraq as well. One from February of that year features an "in the news section" that includes two hyperlinked stories about "Iraq war veterans" running for Congress.

Walz has since cited his military service as a rationale for his support of new gun control legislation. In a video posted by the Harris campaign earlier this month, Walz said, "we can make sure those weapons of war, that I carried in war, is [sic] the only place those weapons are at." But Walz’s suggestion that he was carrying weapons "in war" ignores the fact that he never saw combat.

On at least two instances, Walz described himself as a veteran of Operation Enduring Freedom, the official name of the U.S. government’s war in Afghanistan following the Sept. 11 attacks.

As a first-time congressional candidate in 2006, Walz’s campaign announcement described him as "a veteran of Operation Enduring Freedom," an archived version of the press release shows. Two years earlier, in 2004, Walz organized a protest against then-President George W. Bush in Mankato, Minn. A photo of the rally shows Walz carrying a sign reading "Enduring Freedom Veterans for Kerry."

Such a title historically applies to someone who served on the ground in Afghanistan during the Global War on Terrorism. Walz, a 24-year veteran of the Army National Guard, spent time in Norway in support of NATO forces and in Italy working in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. He told Minnesota Public Radio in 2018 that he had never seen combat.

https://freebeacon.com/elections/tim-wa ... d-nothing/

Tim Walz Falsely Claimed He Served in Afghanistan. When a Local Vet Called Him Out, His Office Did Nothing.
Walz launched his first congressional campaign as ‘a veteran of Operation Enduring Freedom’

Chuck Ross,August 7, 2024

Democratic vice presidential nominee Tim Walz has described himself as "a veteran of Operation Enduring Freedom," the official name of the U.S. government’s war in Afghanistan following the Sept. 11 attacks.

Walz’s claims spurred Iraq war veteran David Thul, a sergeant in the Minnesota National Guard, to approach Walz's aides at the Democrat’s Mankato office in 2009. Thul filmed the encounter, in which a staffer told Thul she was "not aware" of Walz serving in Afghanistan. Thul went on to present the 2004 photo of Walz, as well as Walz's website, to another aide, who acknowledged that constituents could get the false impression that Walz served in Afghanistan.

"Operation Enduring Freedom is limited to Afghanistan and the airspace directly above," Thul told the aide. "Congressman Walz is clearly claiming … to be an Enduring Freedom veteran. Nobody disputes the fact that he is not an Afghanistan or Enduring Freedom veteran. So this represents a fairly serious issue." Asked whether he understood how constituents could falsely "assume that means [Walz] served in Afghanistan," the aide responded, "Perhaps, I guess."

The aide did not dispute that Walz was pictured in the 2004 photograph, and, indeed, a 2006 Atlantic article describes the spectacle of the future governor protesting the Bush visit with a group of high school students. The aide told Thul he would follow up with him. A source familiar with the situation said neither Walz nor his staffers followed through with that pledge.

Walz, who has called himself a "citizen soldier," has been accused before of embellishing his military service. Two Minnesota National Guardsmen said in 2022 that Walz falsely claimed he reached the rank of command sergeant major. But Walz did not fulfill the duties required to maintain that rank before he quit the service in 2005.

And Walz, in a video posted this week by the Harris campaign, called for a ban on the kind of guns "that I carried in war," the Washington Free Beacon reported.

Walz served in the Nebraska National Guard from 1981 to 1996 and the Minnesota National Guard from 1996 to 2005. He resigned that year, quit his teaching job at Mankato West High School, and ran for Congress.

The photo Thul cited in the meeting was taken by Minnesota political consultant Michael Brodkorp. Brodkorp, who has identified Walz in the photo, endorsed the Democrat in his 2022 reelection campaign for governor.

The Harris campaign defended Walz’s military record, citing his deployment overseas during the Afghanistan war. "Governor Walz was deployed to Italy in support of Operation Enduring Freedom while serving in the National Guard," said Harris campaign spokeswoman Lauren Hitt. Walz's aide gave a similar defense in 2009, which Thul rejected.

"We appreciate his service and we appreciate his being deployed, but there’s a huge difference between being deployed to a base in Italy and being in a combat zone in Afghanistan," Thul told the Walz aide in the 2009 encounter.

Walz retired from the National Guard in 2005 and launched his congressional campaign the following year, as his unit was sent to Iraq.

"On May 16th, 2005, [Walz] quit, betraying his country, leaving the 1-125th Field Artillery Battalion and its Soldiers hanging; without its senior Non-Commissioned Officer, as the battalion prepared for war," two retired Command Sergeants Major wrote in a 2018 Facebook post during Walz’s first gubernatorial bid. That post was recently unearthed by the Daily Wire.

A source who served in the Minnesota National Guard at the time told the Free Beacon that Walz’s retirement "left a bad taste in a lot of peoples’ mouths."

Boycott stupid.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

RedFromMI wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:42 am
DMac wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:25 am Read it the same way MDlax.
This dirty politics digging, twisting, accusing, and misrepresenting is revolting.
Vance (the tough guy Marine) says Walz abandoned his unit. No he didn't, he retired.
Accusing him of stolen valor is below the belt slandering but he's Trump's running mate
so not at all surprising.
He would have had to put in his papers for retirement well before he actually retired (for the SECOND time, as he rejoined after his retirement at 20 yrs due to 911). Put his name in the hat for the House seat a couple of months before his actual retirement date, and that was before any announcement of his unit's call up. And if he was truly needed, there could have been a stop loss order to bring him back again.

To call this abandonment is truly bogus and horrible, but from the guy running things for Trump, exactly what was to be expected...
Given the nature of his unit's duty in Iraq, their changed mission, re-composition with other Guard units & soldiers, lengthy pre-deployment training period of training in MS, & his E-8 rank, Walz's presence was obviously not critical to unit integrity & he could be replaced without degrading unit effectiveness.
In his campaign statements, Walz confirmed that he was aware of rumors that his unit would likely deploy to Iraq. Command Sergeant Major's "get the word" via their own network.
IMHO -- no harm, no foul in the timing of his retirement. He was not mission critical. Next man up, preferably an E-9.
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Re: 2024

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:39 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 8:55 am
old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 7:33 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 6:49 am Nice that you’re working overtime to disparage another serviceman. Such a surprise.
I'm surprised by what's coming to light & the MSM isn't ferreting it out.
I was working overtime to dig up factual evidence that defended Walz. I gave him every benefit of the doubt.
I admired his story & was looking to validate it. He didn't need to embellish it. He apparently served admirably.
Looks like I may have gotten out over my skis. His campaign press kit ? I can't believe Holder missed that or thought they could deny it.
obtw -- after you serve two years, your pension increases 2,5%/yr. It dovetails nicely with a career as a school teacher or member of Congress or state legislator.
Sorry, but you really are completely full of sh*t. And you know it, and everyone here knows you know it.

The benefit of the doubt would be simply to credit the fact that he served for 24 years, rather than getting on the subjective swift boat train that you have boarded. Will you be talking about Trump's service? About his relentless lying and gaslighting to work his way into becoming the Commander-in-Chief of folks like Walz? About his debasing treatment of women and people of color in the course of his lifetime? About his mockery of veterans? About his mockery of disabled people? About his blindingly obvious diminished and diminishing mental acuity? About his astonishingly demented "press conference" yesterday?

“And don’t forget they sell hats.”
Trump's non-service is irrelevant, unless you include everyone of his generation who was 4F or used a student deferment.
/quote]

He's the one running to become the Chief Executive Officer of the United States, with the powers and immunities it involves. Are you really this much of an imbecile? Or is it just that you think the rest of us are?
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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:01 am Good lord, even this hit piece posted by Salty, when read closely, reaffirms that what Walz actually claimed was accurate.

He told the truth about it contemporaneously that he did not go to Iraq, he went to Italy...in support of that war. He did go overseas and it was in support of the war on terror. And specifically the war in Afghanistan.

Can the phrasing taken out of context be misread as a claim that he went to Afghanistan? Yes. But that's obviously not what he was claiming contemporaneously, publicly, so one has to be trying to misread to get claim otherwise.

Extremely unlikely missed this in vetting, it had been reported on as a hit issue way back in 2006 and been dismissed as just that, political dirty hits. And they didn't work.
You are such a stickler for accuracy & details. You should apply your same standard to a VP candidate.
He endorsed a book which claimed he deployed to Afghanisitan.
Even CNN is calling him out on this. Listen to the details in his campaign ad.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/08/politics ... bof-digvid
Artful omission.
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:10 am
old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:39 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 8:55 am
old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 7:33 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 6:49 am Nice that you’re working overtime to disparage another serviceman. Such a surprise.
I'm surprised by what's coming to light & the MSM isn't ferreting it out.
I was working overtime to dig up factual evidence that defended Walz. I gave him every benefit of the doubt.
I admired his story & was looking to validate it. He didn't need to embellish it. He apparently served admirably.
Looks like I may have gotten out over my skis. His campaign press kit ? I can't believe Holder missed that or thought they could deny it.
obtw -- after you serve two years, your pension increases 2,5%/yr. It dovetails nicely with a career as a school teacher or member of Congress or state legislator.
Sorry, but you really are completely full of sh*t. And you know it, and everyone here knows you know it.

The benefit of the doubt would be simply to credit the fact that he served for 24 years, rather than getting on the subjective swift boat train that you have boarded. Will you be talking about Trump's service? About his relentless lying and gaslighting to work his way into becoming the Commander-in-Chief of folks like Walz? About his debasing treatment of women and people of color in the course of his lifetime? About his mockery of veterans? About his mockery of disabled people? About his blindingly obvious diminished and diminishing mental acuity? About his astonishingly demented "press conference" yesterday?

“And don’t forget they sell hats.”
Trump's non-service is irrelevant, unless you include everyone of his generation who was 4F or used a student deferment.
He's the one running to become the Chief Executive Officer of the United States, with the powers and immunities it involves. Are you really this much of an imbecile? Or is it just that you think the rest of us are?
Compare Trump's draft record with Bill Clinton's. They both served as our CinC. I'm ok with the national security decisions they both made as CinC.
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Re: 2024

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:39 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 8:55 am
old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 7:33 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 6:49 am Nice that you’re working overtime to disparage another serviceman. Such a surprise.
I'm surprised by what's coming to light & the MSM isn't ferreting it out.
I was working overtime to dig up factual evidence that defended Walz. I gave him every benefit of the doubt.
I admired his story & was looking to validate it. He didn't need to embellish it. He apparently served admirably.
Looks like I may have gotten out over my skis. His campaign press kit ? I can't believe Holder missed that or thought they could deny it.
obtw -- after you serve two years, your pension increases 2,5%/yr. It dovetails nicely with a career as a school teacher or member of Congress or state legislator.
Sorry, but you really are completely full of sh*t. And you know it, and everyone here knows you know it.

The benefit of the doubt would be simply to credit the fact that he served for 24 years, rather than getting on the subjective swift boat train that you have boarded. Will you be talking about Trump's service? About his relentless lying and gaslighting to work his way into becoming the Commander-in-Chief of folks like Walz? About his debasing treatment of women and people of color in the course of his lifetime? About his mockery of veterans? About his mockery of disabled people? About his blindingly obvious diminished and diminishing mental acuity? About his astonishingly demented "press conference" yesterday?

“And don’t forget they sell hats.”
Big difference between Kerry & Walz. Unlike Swift boats, no combat duty involved, no fabrications or exaggerations to earn combat awards. Walz served admirably.

Trump's non-service is irrelevant, unless you include everyone of his generation who was 4F or used a student deferment.

Vance has never implied that he saw combat. He did deploy to a war zone & was at risk as a result. He does not brag about his weapons training or that he carried a rifle when embedded & operating "outside the wire"...even though Every Marine is a rifleman.

Walz is a master communicator. That's why he's a VP candidate. As a HS social studies teacher, HS FB Coach, & a Master Sergeant (E-8) functioning as a Command Sergeant Major (E-9 assignment) he knows how to explain his service in a way that can't be misconstrued that he saw combat duty, deployed to Afghanistan, or was not aware of his unit's coming deployment to Iraq when he elected to retire.
I would not call it Stolen Valor.
I don't think Vance's service should be sneezed at, but I do think his attack on someone else's service is reprehensible as well as dishonest. He's pretending that his service gives him that right, but to my mind it makes it all the more reprehensible.

I'd remind you (who I believe knows) and anyone else that military service, including National Guard training, involves much more risk than the general public. Many more accidents as well as being a target for bad folks. Many more accidents. You certainly need not be in a combat zone to be "at risk as a result". Certainly being IN a combat zone, even if not in combat duty, does involve being closer to MORE bad guys, so higher risk in that. That said, are we claiming that Vance chose to go to a combat zone? Not a chance...he DID decide to go into service, ala many others who saw such service as a way to go forward in their lives. He's successfully 4 years of service quite well. Good on him.

But Walz's regular duties in the NG likely put him at considerably more risk of accident than did Vance's role. We know that his hearing suffered.

Walz's duty also certainly involved weapons proficiency in a wide range of weapons, quite likely much more than Vance's service (which of course also involved 'rifleman' training). 24 years of service. Good on him.

But comparison should be totally irrelevant, both involved decisions to be at more risk than the general public, in service. Good on them.

But reprehensibly attacking someone's service, false claims of Stolen Valor...this tells you the very low character of the attacker. And should be called out unequivocally by anyone who knows better.

Salty, I think you're avoiding the Trump bone spurs lies because you know how awful they are. No one is saying on here that choosing not to serve is a horrible choice, even in a time or war and draft avoiding being called to combat service - though people can reasonably differ as to what's appropriate, but the lying about it is 100% revealing of character.

AND the hypocrisy is off the charts with these attacks on Walz's actual service.
Last edited by MDlaxfan76 on Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
ggait
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Re: 2024

Post by ggait »

Please just stfu loser Maga troll boy.

Boycott stupid.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
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Re: 2024

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:53 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:43 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:01 am Good lord, even this hit piece posted by Salty, when read closely, reaffirms that what Walz actually claimed was accurate.

He told the truth about it contemporaneously that he did not go to Iraq, he went to Italy...in support of that war. He did go overseas and it was in support of the war on terror. And specifically the war in Afghanistan.

Can the phrasing taken out of context be misread as a claim that he went to Afghanistan? Yes. But that's obviously not what he was claiming contemporaneously, publicly, so one has to be trying to misread to get claim otherwise.

Extremely unlikely missed this in vetting, it had been reported on as a hit issue way back in 2006 and been dismissed as just that, political dirty hits. And they didn't work.
So the CSM artillery battalion was deployed to Iraq and their CSM did long distance support from Italy?? Could he directly supervise their training and qualification range firing from Italy? He must have had one hell of a pair of binoculars. :D I don't know what SOP is in a national guard battalion. In my experience when we had a battalion level deployment we normally became a task force. That was so because other units were attached to our battalion. Those units would vary depending on the mission. When we were deployed to JOTC in Panama every attached unit came with us. I find it odd that the senior ranking NCO of this unit was located a 1000 miles away from his men and their equipment. Was their battalion commander also operating out of Italy? In the piece that OS posted the CSM not deploying with his soldiers left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. I'm certain that in the coming weeks more people that served with the CSM during this time frame will have their opinions to share. I do know when my battalion deployed to Panama in 1980 our battalion SM was right there leading PT every morning we had a formation.
sheesh, his unit went well after he had retired.
They had previously gone to Italy in a support role.
Well I'm gonna wait a few weeks. I'm sure more will be revealed about him by the soldiers he led. My personal opinion of this simple. A SM/ CSM that led his soldiers for 24 years and was personally responsible for them and their training would have extended his service to lead them through the course of their deployment and return home. His political career could have been put on hold for another year or 2. His decision was his to make and his priorities were quite clear.
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DMac
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Re: 2024

Post by DMac »

old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:39 am
I would not call it Stolen Valor.
But Trump's choice for VP would (isn't that a big surprise) and all of the Trump peeps will swallow the slander hook, line and sinker.
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Re: 2024

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

DMac wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:25 am
old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:39 am
I would not call it Stolen Valor.
But Trump's choice for VP would (isn't that a big surprise) and all of the Trump peeps will swallow the slander hook, line and sinker.
Notice he doesn’t object to the guy making the claim. It’s subtle and consistent. It’s what he and people like him do.
“I wish you would!”
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Re: 2024

Post by cradleandshoot »

ggait wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:23 am Please just stfu loser Maga troll boy.

Boycott stupid.
Was your military discharge honorable? I think if Old Salt needs any chit from you he can cut a hole in the top of your head and scoop it out.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
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Re: 2024

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:11 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:01 am Good lord, even this hit piece posted by Salty, when read closely, reaffirms that what Walz actually claimed was accurate.

He told the truth about it contemporaneously that he did not go to Iraq, he went to Italy...in support of that war. He did go overseas and it was in support of the war on terror. And specifically the war in Afghanistan.

Can the phrasing taken out of context be misread as a claim that he went to Afghanistan? Yes. But that's obviously not what he was claiming contemporaneously, publicly, so one has to be trying to misread to get claim otherwise.

Extremely unlikely missed this in vetting, it had been reported on as a hit issue way back in 2006 and been dismissed as just that, political dirty hits. And they didn't work.
You are such a stickler for accuracy & details. You should apply your same standard to a VP candidate.
He endorsed a book which claimed he deployed to Afghanisitan.
Even CNN is calling him out on this. Listen to the details in his campaign ad.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/08/politics ... bof-digvid
Artful omission.
sheesh, did you actually watch the video?

Walz was 100% accurate, his service record, including serving in Italy "in support of Operation Enduring Freedom" was fully known contemporaneously. That someone intentionally wanted to misrepresent what he'd said, posted, was an "artful omission" as a hit effort means absolutely nothing beyond it giving Walz an opportunity to hammer clearly what he'd done, accurately, contemporaneously. And makes clear how people are willing to dishonor others due to partisanship. Ugly, stupid. Reprehensible,
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cradleandshoot
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Re: 2024

Post by cradleandshoot »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:28 am
DMac wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:25 am
old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:39 am
I would not call it Stolen Valor.
But Trump's choice for VP would (isn't that a big surprise) and all of the Trump peeps will swallow the slander hook, line and sinker.
Notice he doesn’t object to the guy making the claim. It’s subtle and consistent. It’s what he and people like him do.
People like him served their country with honor and dignity before you were chitting yellow in your diapers. 8-)
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: 2024

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:24 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:53 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:43 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:01 am Good lord, even this hit piece posted by Salty, when read closely, reaffirms that what Walz actually claimed was accurate.

He told the truth about it contemporaneously that he did not go to Iraq, he went to Italy...in support of that war. He did go overseas and it was in support of the war on terror. And specifically the war in Afghanistan.

Can the phrasing taken out of context be misread as a claim that he went to Afghanistan? Yes. But that's obviously not what he was claiming contemporaneously, publicly, so one has to be trying to misread to get claim otherwise.

Extremely unlikely missed this in vetting, it had been reported on as a hit issue way back in 2006 and been dismissed as just that, political dirty hits. And they didn't work.
So the CSM artillery battalion was deployed to Iraq and their CSM did long distance support from Italy?? Could he directly supervise their training and qualification range firing from Italy? He must have had one hell of a pair of binoculars. :D I don't know what SOP is in a national guard battalion. In my experience when we had a battalion level deployment we normally became a task force. That was so because other units were attached to our battalion. Those units would vary depending on the mission. When we were deployed to JOTC in Panama every attached unit came with us. I find it odd that the senior ranking NCO of this unit was located a 1000 miles away from his men and their equipment. Was their battalion commander also operating out of Italy? In the piece that OS posted the CSM not deploying with his soldiers left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. I'm certain that in the coming weeks more people that served with the CSM during this time frame will have their opinions to share. I do know when my battalion deployed to Panama in 1980 our battalion SM was right there leading PT every morning we had a formation.
sheesh, his unit went well after he had retired.
They had previously gone to Italy in a support role.
Well I'm gonna wait a few weeks. I'm sure more will be revealed about him by the soldiers he led. My personal opinion of this simple. A SM/ CSM that led his soldiers for 24 years and was personally responsible for them and their training would have extended his service to lead them through the course of their deployment and return home. His political career could have been put on hold for another year or 2. His decision was his to make and his priorities were quite clear.
sheesh, he re-upped after 9-11. He did 4 extra years. 24 years.
He'd already deployed in support of the Operation once.

His hearing had been damaged and he had found another way to serve his country.
Next phase of life.

His men have already said so.

Will there be partisans who want to hurt him? Sure.
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Re: 2024

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:31 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:28 am
DMac wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:25 am
old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:39 am
I would not call it Stolen Valor.
But Trump's choice for VP would (isn't that a big surprise) and all of the Trump peeps will swallow the slander hook, line and sinker.
Notice he doesn’t object to the guy making the claim. It’s subtle and consistent. It’s what he and people like him do.
People like him served their country with honor and dignity before you were chitting yellow in your diapers. 8-)
"people like him" also were or became dishonorable during and after their service time.
It ain't the service that makes one honorable, though the service itself deserves respect.

Bootlicking becomes no one.
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Re: 2024

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:31 am
old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:11 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:01 am Good lord, even this hit piece posted by Salty, when read closely, reaffirms that what Walz actually claimed was accurate.

He told the truth about it contemporaneously that he did not go to Iraq, he went to Italy...in support of that war. He did go overseas and it was in support of the war on terror. And specifically the war in Afghanistan.

Can the phrasing taken out of context be misread as a claim that he went to Afghanistan? Yes. But that's obviously not what he was claiming contemporaneously, publicly, so one has to be trying to misread to get claim otherwise.

Extremely unlikely missed this in vetting, it had been reported on as a hit issue way back in 2006 and been dismissed as just that, political dirty hits. And they didn't work.
You are such a stickler for accuracy & details. You should apply your same standard to a VP candidate.
He endorsed a book which claimed he deployed to Afghanisitan.
Even CNN is calling him out on this. Listen to the details in his campaign ad.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/08/politics ... bof-digvid
Artful omission.
sheesh, did you actually watch the video?

Walz was 100% accurate, his service record, including serving in Italy "in support of Operation Enduring Freedom" was fully known contemporaneously. That someone intentionally wanted to misrepresent what he'd said, posted, was an "artful omission" as a hit effort means absolutely nothing beyond it giving Walz an opportunity to hammer clearly what he'd done, accurately, contemporaneously. And makes clear how people are willing to dishonor others due to partisanship. Ugly, stupid. Reprehensible,
I'm still waiting for what the soldiers that served under him have to say. The bottom line is how did his artillery battalion perform when doing live fire qualification. That tells you everything you need to know and understand about his leadership abilities. How quickly could they set up their cannons, bore sight them, and be ready to verify coordinates for a fire mission and how long did it take them to get a round down range? How good were they when it came to adjusting fire coordinates from their FOs? Those are the skill sets his cannon cockers needed to excel at.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
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old salt
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Re: 2024

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:22 am
old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 9:39 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 8:55 am
old salt wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 7:33 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2024 6:49 am Nice that you’re working overtime to disparage another serviceman. Such a surprise.
I'm surprised by what's coming to light & the MSM isn't ferreting it out.
I was working overtime to dig up factual evidence that defended Walz. I gave him every benefit of the doubt.
I admired his story & was looking to validate it. He didn't need to embellish it. He apparently served admirably.
Looks like I may have gotten out over my skis. His campaign press kit ? I can't believe Holder missed that or thought they could deny it.
obtw -- after you serve two years, your pension increases 2,5%/yr. It dovetails nicely with a career as a school teacher or member of Congress or state legislator.
Sorry, but you really are completely full of sh*t. And you know it, and everyone here knows you know it.

The benefit of the doubt would be simply to credit the fact that he served for 24 years, rather than getting on the subjective swift boat train that you have boarded. Will you be talking about Trump's service? About his relentless lying and gaslighting to work his way into becoming the Commander-in-Chief of folks like Walz? About his debasing treatment of women and people of color in the course of his lifetime? About his mockery of veterans? About his mockery of disabled people? About his blindingly obvious diminished and diminishing mental acuity? About his astonishingly demented "press conference" yesterday?

“And don’t forget they sell hats.”
Big difference between Kerry & Walz. Unlike Swift boats, no combat duty involved, no fabrications or exaggerations to earn combat awards. Walz served admirably.

Trump's non-service is irrelevant, unless you include everyone of his generation who was 4F or used a student deferment.

Vance has never implied that he saw combat. He did deploy to a war zone & was at risk as a result. He does not brag about his weapons training or that he carried a rifle when embedded & operating "outside the wire"...even though Every Marine is a rifleman.

Walz is a master communicator. That's why he's a VP candidate. As a HS social studies teacher, HS FB Coach, & a Master Sergeant (E-8) functioning as a Command Sergeant Major (E-9 assignment) he knows how to explain his service in a way that can't be misconstrued that he saw combat duty, deployed to Afghanistan, or was not aware of his unit's coming deployment to Iraq when he elected to retire.
I would not call it Stolen Valor.
I don't think Vance's service should be sneezed at, but I do think his attack on someone else's service is reprehensible as well as dishonest. He's pretending that his service gives him that right, but to my mind it makes it all the more reprehensible.

I'd remind you (who I believe knows) and anyone else that military service, including National Guard training, involves much more risk than the general public. Many more accidents as well as being a target for bad folks. Many more. You certainly need not be in a combat zone to be "at risk as a result". Certainly being IN a combat zone, even if not in combat duty, does involve being closer to MORE bad guys, so higher risk in that. That said, are we claiming that Vance chose to go to a combat zone? Not a chance...he DID decide to go into service, ala many others who saw such service as a way to go forward in their lives. He's successfully 4 years of service quite well. Good on him.

But Walz's regular duties in the NG likely put him at considerably more risk of accident than did Vance's role. We know that his hearing suffered.

Walz's duty also certainly involved weapons proficiency in a wide range of weapons, quite likely much more than Vance's service (which of course also involved 'rifleman' training). 24 years of service. Good on him.

But comparison should be totally irrelevant, both involved decisions to be at more risk than the general public, in service. Good on them.

But reprehensibly attacking someone's service, false claims of Stolen Valor...this tells you the very low character of the attacker. And should be called out unequivocally by anyone who knows better.

Salty, I think you're avoiding the Trump bone spurs lies because you know how awful they are. No one is saying on here that choosing not to serve is a horrible choice, even in a time or war and draft avoiding being called to combat service - though people can reasonably differ as to what's appropriate, but the lying about it is 100% revealing of character.

AND the hypocrisy is off the charts with these attacks on Walz's actual service.
I think you underestimate the hazard in Vance's service. He was based at Al-Asad in Anbar province which is still under attack. He embedded in civil affairs teams which went into Iraqi villiages. Unlike Walz, he carried an assault rifle in a war zone, was exposed to IEDs & snipers, & earned hazardous duty pay.
Walz's service was commendable, but he never faced the risks that Vance did on deployment.
Corporal Vance did not have the option to volunteer for his assignment. He went where his unit deployed & did his assigned tasks.

...& I think you're ignoring Bill Clinton's letter to the CO of the U of Arkansas ROTC unit & how awful it was.
Last edited by old salt on Fri Aug 09, 2024 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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