Florida State

[hmmm]

Underestimate FSU at your own peril..They have the blueprint from women's soccer. Those two sports are very similar in how they are run in terms of recruiting and player management if you're a large school with the resources.

Not to mention the attractiveness of big time football that lax recruits regularly mention (ala clemson) yet people somehow continue to ignore.

FSU is an attractive destination. They just need that first whiff of success and watch out. Imagine the choice of a Connecticut recruit between syracuse and a good up and coming florida state? no offense to CUSE but these kids want warm weather. It won't be a hard decision.

the hard part will just be breaking through with that first successful season.

The big time football this is completely overrated. Is it mentioned by recruits? Sure. Does it make for an impressive September/October visit? Absolutely. But look at this years final top 25. How many are big time football schools? Florida, Michigan, Notre Dame and Penn State. I'm a MD fan but even I wouldn't qualify MD as big time football considering they can't usually fill more than half the stadium. I suppose currently you could include Colorado, but once Deion rolls out that won't be the case anymore. But even if you want to include them that's only 5 of the top 25 schools.

At the end of the day, I think recruits realize that there are only 6-7 home football games a year. Winning, academics, relationship with coaches, etc play a much bigger role in those decisions for most recruits in my opinion.

Depends on the recruit. I know quite a few kids that passed on a great academic school in Marquette due to not having football. Sure, they have a solid basketball team and history, but it didn’t move the dial for some, including my daughter (similar to Deacon on FSU for his daughter).

Oh, I'm sure it's a big factor for some. Kids choose schools for all sorts of reasons. Was just saying I don't believe it's a big factor for a lot of girls. UNC, NW, BC, Cuse, MD, UVA, etc aren't providing any sort of huge gameday experience and they seem to do just fine. There's just not a ton of top lax schools that have "big time football". Florida, Michigan, ND, PSU, Clemson, USC, Va Tech, Oregon, and OSU are about it. The last 3 on that list have no history of wlax success. Nor does Clemson but that should obviously change. So basically, if a girl wants a top 20 lax program with big time football they have 4-5 choices. PSU won national championships in 1987 and 1989. In 1989, the NCAA tournament consisted of PSU, Harvard(who lost in finals), semifinalists Temple and Princeton, and quarterfinalists UVA and Lafayette so it goes without saying, times have changed. In the modern era of wlax, no "big time football" school has won a championship.

I believe you're showing your age here. For you they may not be "big time" football programs because you're looking at records and rankings, but the fun and excitement on campus at BC/UNC when Clemson, Florida State or Miami comes to campus or at MD/NW when Mich, OSU or PSU comes to campus is what matters. In the eyes of high school girls, when picking a school, if you're a power 5 school they consider it big time football. It's not about wins/losses and the quality of the team for them, its about the excitement and good time on campus coupled with their own ability to play high level lacrosse, which all of the big 10 and ACC schools provide. And FL St will soon join that list, regardless of facilities or anything else old men want to use to say they won't be a destination school.

Showing my age? Not sure if you think I'm older or younger than I am. LOL

I have been to a LOT of college football games in my life. And no, I don't consider BC or UNC "big time football". Yes, there are games that have a fun environment at those schools once or twice a year. But BC hasn't been good at football in a long time. As I said, I'm a MD football fan. MD has won 3 straight bowl games and plays in the Big Ten. Yet they are in no way "big time football". Shoot, the last time MD beat a top 5 team it was in the ACC over BC when Matt Ryan was there. I was there that night.

If you've been to an SEC game, a Michigan game, a PSU white out game, a game at the horseshoe, you know a BC/Clemson game is not even close to the same thing. I doubt anyone is picking BC because they attended a BC/Clemson game in Chestnut Hill and that was a major factor in their decision. Girls choose BC because it's a winning program with a great coach with good academics on a beautiful campus in a great city.

UNC has had some good years as well. But it's apples and oranges to big time football schools in terms of support and atmosphere. Again, girls aren't choosing UNC because they had a fun time at a UNC/Miami football game.

[Relax77]

Florida St will be a hot destination school whether they win 0 games or beat JMU down the road. Will the Spallinas of the lax world go there? No. But they will be heavily sought after for the experience of going to Florida State just like Penn State is. Does PSU win at lax? Not lately. So what. They have tons of kids dreaming to get there and play lax. The top 20-30 kids are really looking to win at lax. The other 1500 know they are going to a school with no real shot at winning a National title. There’s only five teams around that have been doing that for the last 30 years. Heck the majority of the teams never sniff the tournament and kids still go there. Add in big time college football and Florida. I could coach that team next year and I’m gonna entertain 100 emails next year from 2027s looking to play there.

[610Lax]

[/quote]

The big time football this is completely overrated. Is it mentioned by recruits? Sure. Does it make for an impressive September/October visit? Absolutely. But look at this years final top 25. How many are big time football schools? Florida, Michigan, Notre Dame and Penn State. I'm a MD fan but even I wouldn't qualify MD as big time football considering they can't usually fill more than half the stadium. I suppose currently you could include Colorado, but once Deion rolls out that won't be the case anymore. But even if you want to include them that's only 5 of the top 25 schools.

At the end of the day, I think recruits realize that there are only 6-7 home football games a year. Winning, academics, relationship with coaches, etc play a much bigger role in those decisions for most recruits in my opinion.
[/quote]

Depends on the recruit. I know quite a few kids that passed on a great academic school in Marquette due to not having football. Sure, they have a solid basketball team and history, but it didn’t move the dial for some, including my daughter (similar to Deacon on FSU for his daughter).
[/quote]

Oh, I'm sure it's a big factor for some. Kids choose schools for all sorts of reasons. Was just saying I don't believe it's a big factor for a lot of girls. UNC, NW, BC, Cuse, MD, UVA, etc aren't providing any sort of huge gameday experience and they seem to do just fine. There's just not a ton of top lax schools that have "big time football". Florida, Michigan, ND, PSU, Clemson, USC, Va Tech, Oregon, and OSU are about it. The last 3 on that list have no history of wlax success. Nor does Clemson but that should obviously change. So basically, if a girl wants a top 20 lax program with big time football they have 4-5 choices. PSU won national championships in 1987 and 1989. In 1989, the NCAA tournament consisted of PSU, Harvard(who lost in finals), semifinalists Temple and Princeton, and quarterfinalists UVA and Lafayette so it goes without saying, times have changed. In the modern era of wlax, no "big time football" school has won a championship.
[/quote]

I believe you're showing your age here. For you they may not be "big time" football programs because you're looking at records and rankings, but the fun and excitement on campus at BC/UNC when Clemson, Florida State or Miami comes to campus or at MD/NW when Mich, OSU or PSU comes to campus is what matters. In the eyes of high school girls, when picking a school, if you're a power 5 school they consider it big time football. It's not about wins/losses and the quality of the team for them, its about the excitement and good time on campus coupled with their own ability to play high level lacrosse, which all of the big 10 and ACC schools provide. And FL St will soon join that list, regardless of facilities or anything else old men want to use to say they won't be a destination school.
[/quote]

Showing my age? Not sure if you think I'm older or younger than I am. LOL

I have been to a LOT of college football games in my life. And no, I don't consider BC or UNC "big time football". Yes, there are games that have a fun environment at those schools once or twice a year. But BC hasn't been good at football in a long time. As I said, I'm a MD football fan. MD has won 3 straight bowl games and plays in the Big Ten. Yet they are in no way "big time football". Shoot, the last time MD beat a top 5 team it was in the ACC over BC when Matt Ryan was there. I was there that night.

If you've been to an SEC game, a Michigan game, a PSU white out game, a game at the horseshoe, you know a BC/Clemson game is not even close to the same thing. I doubt anyone is picking BC because they attended a BC/Clemson game in Chestnut Hill and that was a major factor in their decision. Girls choose BC because it's a winning program with a great coach with good academics on a beautiful campus in a great city.

UNC has had some good years as well. But it's apples and oranges to big time football schools in terms of support and atmosphere. Again, girls aren't choosing UNC because they had a fun time at a UNC/Miami football game.
[/quote]

Again, you're proving my point. You don't view them as "big time football" and neither do I, we're old men(I'm probably younger than you, LOL) I've been to every big venue in college football, and from my view point, I would agree with you. But from the eyes of a high school junior girl, the Instagram picture they get from the student section is more important than what the schools ranking is.

And while no one is making their final decision on BC based off the football game they went to vs Clemson, BC isn't in the ACC if they don't have BCS football. And if they don't have BCS football, BC womens lacrosse is BU.

[hmmm]

The big time football this is completely overrated. Is it mentioned by recruits? Sure. Does it make for an impressive September/October visit? Absolutely. But look at this years final top 25. How many are big time football schools? Florida, Michigan, Notre Dame and Penn State. I'm a MD fan but even I wouldn't qualify MD as big time football considering they can't usually fill more than half the stadium. I suppose currently you could include Colorado, but once Deion rolls out that won't be the case anymore. But even if you want to include them that's only 5 of the top 25 schools.

At the end of the day, I think recruits realize that there are only 6-7 home football games a year. Winning, academics, relationship with coaches, etc play a much bigger role in those decisions for most recruits in my opinion.
[/quote]

Depends on the recruit. I know quite a few kids that passed on a great academic school in Marquette due to not having football. Sure, they have a solid basketball team and history, but it didn’t move the dial for some, including my daughter (similar to Deacon on FSU for his daughter).
[/quote]

Oh, I'm sure it's a big factor for some. Kids choose schools for all sorts of reasons. Was just saying I don't believe it's a big factor for a lot of girls. UNC, NW, BC, Cuse, MD, UVA, etc aren't providing any sort of huge gameday experience and they seem to do just fine. There's just not a ton of top lax schools that have "big time football". Florida, Michigan, ND, PSU, Clemson, USC, Va Tech, Oregon, and OSU are about it. The last 3 on that list have no history of wlax success. Nor does Clemson but that should obviously change. So basically, if a girl wants a top 20 lax program with big time football they have 4-5 choices. PSU won national championships in 1987 and 1989. In 1989, the NCAA tournament consisted of PSU, Harvard(who lost in finals), semifinalists Temple and Princeton, and quarterfinalists UVA and Lafayette so it goes without saying, times have changed. In the modern era of wlax, no "big time football" school has won a championship.
[/quote]

I believe you're showing your age here. For you they may not be "big time" football programs because you're looking at records and rankings, but the fun and excitement on campus at BC/UNC when Clemson, Florida State or Miami comes to campus or at MD/NW when Mich, OSU or PSU comes to campus is what matters. In the eyes of high school girls, when picking a school, if you're a power 5 school they consider it big time football. It's not about wins/losses and the quality of the team for them, its about the excitement and good time on campus coupled with their own ability to play high level lacrosse, which all of the big 10 and ACC schools provide. And FL St will soon join that list, regardless of facilities or anything else old men want to use to say they won't be a destination school.
[/quote]

Showing my age? Not sure if you think I'm older or younger than I am. LOL

I have been to a LOT of college football games in my life. And no, I don't consider BC or UNC "big time football". Yes, there are games that have a fun environment at those schools once or twice a year. But BC hasn't been good at football in a long time. As I said, I'm a MD football fan. MD has won 3 straight bowl games and plays in the Big Ten. Yet they are in no way "big time football". Shoot, the last time MD beat a top 5 team it was in the ACC over BC when Matt Ryan was there. I was there that night.

If you've been to an SEC game, a Michigan game, a PSU white out game, a game at the horseshoe, you know a BC/Clemson game is not even close to the same thing. I doubt anyone is picking BC because they attended a BC/Clemson game in Chestnut Hill and that was a major factor in their decision. Girls choose BC because it's a winning program with a great coach with good academics on a beautiful campus in a great city.

UNC has had some good years as well. But it's apples and oranges to big time football schools in terms of support and atmosphere. Again, girls aren't choosing UNC because they had a fun time at a UNC/Miami football game.
[/quote]

Again, you're proving my point. You don't view them as "big time football" and neither do I, we're old men(I'm probably younger than you, LOL) I've been to every big venue in college football, and from my view point, I would agree with you. But from the eyes of a high school junior girl, the Instagram picture they get from the student section is more important than what the schools ranking is.

And while no one is making their final decision on BC based off the football game they went to vs Clemson, BC isn't in the ACC if they don't have BCS football. And if they don't have BCS football, BC womens lacrosse is BU.
[/quote]

One could easily argue BC wlax was BU until Acacia took over. Coaching matters more than anything. Spallina wins at SB. Jen Adams wins at Loyola. Shelley wins at JMU. OSU and Va Tech can't find coaches that can take advantage of the resources that are available to them thanks to being in a P5 football conference.

[610Lax]

The big time football this is completely overrated. Is it mentioned by recruits? Sure. Does it make for an impressive September/October visit? Absolutely. But look at this years final top 25. How many are big time football schools? Florida, Michigan, Notre Dame and Penn State. I'm a MD fan but even I wouldn't qualify MD as big time football considering they can't usually fill more than half the stadium. I suppose currently you could include Colorado, but once Deion rolls out that won't be the case anymore. But even if you want to include them that's only 5 of the top 25 schools.

At the end of the day, I think recruits realize that there are only 6-7 home football games a year. Winning, academics, relationship with coaches, etc play a much bigger role in those decisions for most recruits in my opinion.

Depends on the recruit. I know quite a few kids that passed on a great academic school in Marquette due to not having football. Sure, they have a solid basketball team and history, but it didn’t move the dial for some, including my daughter (similar to Deacon on FSU for his daughter).
[/quote]

Oh, I'm sure it's a big factor for some. Kids choose schools for all sorts of reasons. Was just saying I don't believe it's a big factor for a lot of girls. UNC, NW, BC, Cuse, MD, UVA, etc aren't providing any sort of huge gameday experience and they seem to do just fine. There's just not a ton of top lax schools that have "big time football". Florida, Michigan, ND, PSU, Clemson, USC, Va Tech, Oregon, and OSU are about it. The last 3 on that list have no history of wlax success. Nor does Clemson but that should obviously change. So basically, if a girl wants a top 20 lax program with big time football they have 4-5 choices. PSU won national championships in 1987 and 1989. In 1989, the NCAA tournament consisted of PSU, Harvard(who lost in finals), semifinalists Temple and Princeton, and quarterfinalists UVA and Lafayette so it goes without saying, times have changed. In the modern era of wlax, no "big time football" school has won a championship.
[/quote]

I believe you're showing your age here. For you they may not be "big time" football programs because you're looking at records and rankings, but the fun and excitement on campus at BC/UNC when Clemson, Florida State or Miami comes to campus or at MD/NW when Mich, OSU or PSU comes to campus is what matters. In the eyes of high school girls, when picking a school, if you're a power 5 school they consider it big time football. It's not about wins/losses and the quality of the team for them, its about the excitement and good time on campus coupled with their own ability to play high level lacrosse, which all of the big 10 and ACC schools provide. And FL St will soon join that list, regardless of facilities or anything else old men want to use to say they won't be a destination school.
[/quote]

Showing my age? Not sure if you think I'm older or younger than I am. LOL

I have been to a LOT of college football games in my life. And no, I don't consider BC or UNC "big time football". Yes, there are games that have a fun environment at those schools once or twice a year. But BC hasn't been good at football in a long time. As I said, I'm a MD football fan. MD has won 3 straight bowl games and plays in the Big Ten. Yet they are in no way "big time football". Shoot, the last time MD beat a top 5 team it was in the ACC over BC when Matt Ryan was there. I was there that night.

If you've been to an SEC game, a Michigan game, a PSU white out game, a game at the horseshoe, you know a BC/Clemson game is not even close to the same thing. I doubt anyone is picking BC because they attended a BC/Clemson game in Chestnut Hill and that was a major factor in their decision. Girls choose BC because it's a winning program with a great coach with good academics on a beautiful campus in a great city.

UNC has had some good years as well. But it's apples and oranges to big time football schools in terms of support and atmosphere. Again, girls aren't choosing UNC because they had a fun time at a UNC/Miami football game.
[/quote]

Again, you're proving my point. You don't view them as "big time football" and neither do I, we're old men(I'm probably younger than you, LOL) I've been to every big venue in college football, and from my view point, I would agree with you. But from the eyes of a high school junior girl, the Instagram picture they get from the student section is more important than what the schools ranking is.

And while no one is making their final decision on BC based off the football game they went to vs Clemson, BC isn't in the ACC if they don't have BCS football. And if they don't have BCS football, BC womens lacrosse is BU.
[/quote]

One could easily argue BC wlax was BU until Acacia took over. Coaching matters more than anything. Spallina wins at SB. Jen Adams wins at Loyola. Shelley wins at JMU. OSU and Va Tech can't find coaches that can take advantage of the resources that are available to them thanks to being in a P5 football conference.
[/quote]

They did win 12, 12, 10 games in the 3 seasons before her, and that also corresponded to them moving to the ACC. She did a great job of leveraging the resources that a power 5 school has at its disposal. Sure, there will be the occasional outlier like JMU winning a chip, but for the most part the Nat Champ will be from a school with Power 5 football/basketball. Wish that wasn’t the case, but their draw is hard for the top players to turn down, minus a few exceptions.

[cdb]

I find comments about the impact of Power football on WLAX recruiting very interesting. I agree with most of the comments that whether or not a school plays Power Four football not to be a main factor in a school decision. And who is to determine the top powers in college football. Alabama stands alone having won 18 or so National Championships over many years. But the top schools come and go no matter what their alumni believe. Several years ago Colorado and Nebaska were two teams that normally were rated top ten. USC was a power recently, but not so much any more. Texas went several years with so so programs. I lived in Atlanta when GA was just a good program. Miami and Florida State used to consistently fight to be number one. That doesn't mean that these programs are not great college programs who could not win the national championship in any given year, but it is very difficult to win or be one of the top few teams every year. If you went to a school with a proud football tradition, I am sure you put forth an argument about the excellence of your program. That reputation may or may not affect a WLAX players decision.

But, in the future, there is a possibility that the Football school will distribute some of the money they just agreed to spend on former and current athletes with WLAX players. The NCAA is floundering and trying to do anything it can to remain in some sort of power -- many believe the top football schools may leave the NCAA and found their own governing body. The whole area of NIL represents something the NCAA used to punish schools for -- going as far as to issue the death sentence to SMU in the last century. But even when the power football schools leave, the NCAA may still remain the governing agency for sport like WLAX. Most think the split will happen sooner than later because the NCAA believes it can tell an individual school what is ok NIL and was it not. The supreme court ruling does not give the NCAA that right and there is no reason for the college football schools not to challenge it in court.

If the football schools share money with WLAX athletes for whatever reason -- Title Nine or the belief that a certain current non-revenue WLAX may become a revenue sport as some have opined, that will change the landscape of WLAX recruiting. Those schools will offer more scholarships and NIL money to incoming and current athletes -- they will advertise great players in the same way football and basketball schools promote their outstanding players. The best players will take advantage of the benefits. Some have opined that a school such as Clemson will go this route. I have no idea, but it is possible or perhaps probable.

[BigRedChant]

When girls say they want a football school - I really don’t think they mean “somebody who has a real chance at winning a CFP championship”. I think everybody is talking about a great game day experience that is a major part of the culture of the school. Since this thread is supposed to be about FSU - I don’t know much about the school except they should not have a problem recruiting girls that are specifically looking for that.

[cdb]

Many schools have football programs below division 1. I have attended the Harvard Yale games and there is tremendous tradition when that game is played. Many of the Jesuit schools went down 1-2 levels in football in the last century (e.g. fordham, Georgetown, Holy Cross, etc.) BC survived that purge. Villanova used to field a very good Division 1 football team, but all of these school still play football and present that game day experience.

But, there is a tremendous difference between the game day experience of GA - FL -- AL - AUB -- or any rivalry game of schools that play big time football compared to the game day experience of schools that do not give out 85 and soon to be 105 scholarships.

In all the years I have been helping prospective students get into my college, I have never had a young woman tell me she wanted to go my alma mater because it has a Division 1 football team. I always tell prospective students to visit all schools they are interested in and find a peaceful place and spend some time there and determine if this is the place you want to spend the next four years of hs/her life. Now, if I represented a school like TAMU, where they have a Freshman orientation class where all of the students learn all of the football cheers, I would advise them NOT to go there unless they completely bought into the football experience, because all of their friends will be avid fans.

[Relax77]

You guys are nuts to think kids aren’t going to want to go to Florida State. Once again yes, if their lax program sucks and don’t get support, Penczeks, Laurentanis, and Spallinas of the world will avoid it. There will be a thousand other kids playing lacrosse hoping to go there. It isn’t just about National Championship because then there would only be 200 girls playing D1 lax. Because that’s the only kids who have a chance at winning one. Kids pick their colleges for many reasons. Will FSU be top 20? No because it appears they aren’t all in. But kids will attempt to play lax at schools like FSU before they hit EMU or Marist. They will be a mid ranked team in three years of starting because of that. If something changes (sexy coaching hire, facilities) maybe right outside top 25.


Here’s an exampe. Who do you think gets more recruiting emails Ohio state or Fairfield?

[cdb]

I think FL State is great place to get a degree, but remember before Walker (as a prior poster stated) BC was just another school that had a Lacrosse program. It was like Fairfield. Folks forget what Miami football was before Howard S. I can also remember the laughter and media outrage when Duke hired an unknown basketball coach from Army who affectionately became known to all of us as Coach K.

In Florida State's case the coach and how she develops the program will mean as much as any other factor. Of course a state school with a mid to upper $30K cost is going to be more attractive then the $87K BC charges. But if you are one of the best, won't you want to play for one of the top 20 schools. Florida State will need to commit the resources to become one of those schools. If so, the football team's effect will be more consequential.

I am not sleeping on your school -- I am simply watching to see how serious it is -- if it treats WLAX like it did Soccer, you will become destination Lacrosse school.