2024

[Typical Lax Dad]

Right back at you, TLD, you could also say I guess I misread it because there is no implication of who I think would be the right/best person in basic English, French, or Chinese.

You said “we”. You meant to include yourself with the plurality of people that believe “we” don’t have good or the right person for the job? You meant to include yourself in the we?

We: 1. : I and the rest of a group that includes me : you and I : you and I and another or others : I and another or others not including you. used as pronoun of the first person plural. We live here. We would like to order now.

All you had to say was that you didn’t intend to include yourself in “we”.

How 'bout the implication is the two party system doesn't cut it?
I'm on record many times as saying we vote for the cream of the
crap and crap is what we end up with.
Spare me the English lesson and all the uppityness.
You misinterpreted what I wrote.

Man I just responded to what you actually wrote. You didn’t mean it that way. One of the issues with English is that the same words has different meanings depending on context. It’s no big deal. And that could be an implication but those weren’t the words YOU WROTE. Just let it go. It’s 2024. Nobody gives a Fku’n inch on anything.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'd like to hear someone on the right or middle explain what exactly they don't like about Kamala.
Sure, there might be someone else we'd prefer, but what is it that you don't actually like?
Is it actually disqualifying?

She's further to the left than Bernie, Liz Warren & AOC.
If you haven't liked Biden's decisions & policies, you'll like Kamala's even less.
She's never been in a job where she had to make a decision under pressure.
You may not like Trump, but he's made live or death national security decisions which have turned out well.

nope, not to the left of Warren, nor AOC.
She did barely nudge out Bernie in 2019 when in the Senate representing California's perspectives, but not Warren.
But none of these are actually extreme lefties.

She made all sorts of prosecutorial decisions "under pressure".

Come on, Trump tried to make all sorts of decisions but, according to you, was restrained by a bunch of successive current or ex military folks who were 'guardrails' for him...gonna have those guard rails which he hated next time? No way.

But let's get specific on here, exactly which "policies" that Harris espouses today do you find so "left" abhorrent that they are disqualifying? Are any of those policies to the left of most of European countries' positions?

I can't think of any.

doesn't mean I'm thrilled with her, but I'll take some degree of competence and norms and forward social progress over racist, nativist, misogynist etc offered up by the other side, thanks very much.

when the GOP returns to its senses, if they can, let us know.

[DMac]

Nobody gives a Fku’n inch on anything.

....and nobody includes you.
Basic English, ya know.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Nobody gives a Fku’n inch on anything.

....and nobody includes you.
Basic English, ya know.

I admit mistakes. You are arguing over something stupid.

[a fan]

The TR carrier strike group was already in the Persian Gulf on a scheduled rotational deployment.
The Lincoln strike group was already scheduled to relieve them on station.
Ops normal. Not a big deal.
https://news.usni.org/2024/08/02/carrie ... nst-israel

Yes. Ops Normal. What does "normal ops" mean for America since WWII: NeoCon.

Arming Ukraine is "ops normal". It's why both Trump and Biden did it: Ops Normal.

What Trump did was a pittance in comparison. Done for deterrence. Just enough to prevent a total collapse if invaded.

All or nothing logic. Devoid of a rational comparison. What do you think Trump will do if elected ?

Recall you BRAGGED about Trump arming them, because that's what stopped the Russian army Cold.

Now, as you always do, you change your mind, and move the goalposts, and call it a pittance because you want to "win" a discussion.

All or nothing is your way of weaseling out something you said in the past. It's the equivalent of "I can't refute your point, so I'm going to fling poo, and hope you think that's a response".

Trump armed Ukraine. You don't like that fact here in 2024, so you're on here trying to diminish it and move the goalposts....when you lectured me about how that's what kept Kyiv from falling at the start of the war.

Keeping Kyiv from falling ain't "a pittance'...not even with your throwing in "in comparison" Get out of here with this stuff.

It was a difference maker in Ukraine's success in stopping the initial invasion & preventing the collapse of the govt.
It was nowhere near enough to win back territory, let alone mount a counteroffensive, which failed.
It was a pittance in the cost, amount & magnitude of what's been provided since the invasion. F-16's are arriving.
More all-or-nothing logic fail.

Keeping Kyiv is LITERALLY the "all". Literally. Kyiv falls, Ukraine is done. Game over.

You're mad at yourself for bragging about Trump arming them. Too late now. You're arguing with yourself. Again.

[a fan]

I'd like to hear someone on the right or middle explain what exactly they don't like about Kamala.
Sure, there might be someone else we'd prefer, but what is it that you don't actually like?
Is it actually disqualifying?

She's further to the left than Bernie, Liz Warren & AOC.
If you haven't liked Biden's decisions & policies, you'll like Kamala's even less.
She's never been in a job where she had to make a decision under pressure.
You may not like Trump, but he's made live or death national security decisions which have turned out well.

nope, not to the left of Warren, nor AOC.
She did barely nudge out Bernie in 2019 when in the Senate representing California's perspectives, but not Warren.
But none of these are actually extreme lefties.

She made all sorts of prosecutorial decisions "under pressure".

Come on, Trump tried to make all sorts of decisions but, according to you, was restrained by a bunch of successive current or ex military folks who were 'guardrails' for him...gonna have those guard rails which he hated next time? No way.

But let's get specific on here, exactly which "policies" that Harris espouses today do you find so "left" abhorrent that they are disqualifying? Are any of those policies to the left of most of European countries' positions?

I can't think of any.

doesn't mean I'm thrilled with her, but I'll take some degree of competence and norms and forward social progress over racist, nativist, misogynist etc offered up by the other side, thanks very much.

when the GOP returns to its senses, if they can, let us know.

Everyone the Dems run in the FoxNews era is the lefty-est of lefty commies.

It's so transparently stupid....but as you can see, it works on Republican voters every time. Derp.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I'd like to hear someone on the right or middle explain what exactly they don't like about Kamala.
Sure, there might be someone else we'd prefer, but what is it that you don't actually like?
Is it actually disqualifying?

She's further to the left than Bernie, Liz Warren & AOC.
If you haven't liked Biden's decisions & policies, you'll like Kamala's even less.
She's never been in a job where she had to make a decision under pressure.
You may not like Trump, but he's made live or death national security decisions which have turned out well.

nope, not to the left of Warren, nor AOC.
She did barely nudge out Bernie in 2019 when in the Senate representing California's perspectives, but not Warren.
But none of these are actually extreme lefties.

She made all sorts of prosecutorial decisions "under pressure".

Come on, Trump tried to make all sorts of decisions but, according to you, was restrained by a bunch of successive current or ex military folks who were 'guardrails' for him...gonna have those guard rails which he hated next time? No way.

But let's get specific on here, exactly which "policies" that Harris espouses today do you find so "left" abhorrent that they are disqualifying? Are any of those policies to the left of most of European countries' positions?

I can't think of any.

doesn't mean I'm thrilled with her, but I'll take some degree of competence and norms and forward social progress over racist, nativist, misogynist etc offered up by the other side, thanks very much.

when the GOP returns to its senses, if they can, let us know.

Everyone the Dems run in the FoxNews era is the lefty-est of lefty commies.

It's so transparently stupid....but as you can see, it works on Republican voters every time. Derp.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9uUZ3kO ... BiNWFlZA==

[old salt]

I'd like to hear someone on the right or middle explain what exactly they don't like about Kamala.
Sure, there might be someone else we'd prefer, but what is it that you don't actually like?
Is it actually disqualifying?

She's further to the left than Bernie, Liz Warren & AOC.
If you haven't liked Biden's decisions & policies, you'll like Kamala's even less.
She's never been in a job where she had to make a decision under pressure.
You may not like Trump, but he's made live or death national security decisions which have turned out well.

nope, not to the left of Warren, nor AOC.
She did barely nudge out Bernie in 2019 when in the Senate representing California's perspectives, but not Warren.
But none of these are actually extreme lefties.

She made all sorts of prosecutorial decisions "under pressure".

Come on, Trump tried to make all sorts of decisions but, according to you, was restrained by a bunch of successive current or ex military folks who were 'guardrails' for him...gonna have those guard rails which he hated next time? No way.

But let's get specific on here, exactly which "policies" that Harris espouses today do you find so "left" abhorrent that they are disqualifying? Are any of those policies to the left of most of European countries' positions?

I can't think of any.

doesn't mean I'm thrilled with her, but I'll take some degree of competence and norms and forward social progress over racist, nativist, misogynist etc offered up by the other side, thanks very much.

when the GOP returns to its senses, if they can, let us know.

Just watch the forthcoming GOP ads. She's on record. You'll find a way to rationalize or equivocate them away.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-go ... 08657.html

How liberal is she? Watchdog groups rate the Senate record of Kamala Harris

BY DAVID LIGHTMAN. AUGUST 15, 2020

Sen. Kamala Harris’ voting record has one of the Senate’s most liberal throughout her three years in Congress, according to congressional watchdog groups. Americans for Democratic Action, a liberal advocacy group that compiles ratings based on major votes, gave her perfect scores in 2017 and 2018.

Fourteen senators, all Democrats, had perfect scores in 2017 and 10 had 100s in 2018. The Democratic Senate average was 88.8 in 2017 and 88.6 in 2018. Harris voted the group’s way last year on key votes every time she was present. The California Democrat missed four of the votes as she waged her presidential campaign, which ended in December. A separate analysis by GovTrack, a nonpartisan organization that compiles data on congressional legislation, found that the presumptive Democratic vice presidential nominee was the “most liberal senator” last year based on its look at legislation she co-sponsored and its co-sponsors.

Her liberal rating from Americans for Democratic Action comes from the organization’s annual selection of 20 votes it considers very important. Harris has voted the ADA’s way on 56, missing four because of her campaign last year. Several of her votes opposed conservative judges. Last year, for instance, she voted against the nominations of Kenneth Kiyul Lee and Lawrence Van Dyke to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, which includes California. Lee drew fire because of comments when in college that gay men got AIDS at a greater rate than heterosexual men because gays are more promiscuous. She voted against the nominations of William Barr as attorney general and Andrew Wheeler as Environmental Protection Agency administrator. GovTrack, using a different analysis, found her to be the “least likely to cosponsor a bipartisan bill,” even though she cosponsored the eighth most bills of anyone in the Senate. It noted Harris has supported expanding public access to government health care as well as debt-free college. This year, Harris has won praise from fellow Democrats for championing police reform initiatives. She was a leader in the effort in the Senate, but progress there stalled as Republicans and Democrats could not agree. Harris’ record is anathema to conservatives. The American Conservative Union gives her a 3.03 lifetime score out of 100. Some of the votes that counted against her, such as the confirmations of Barr and Wheeler, were the same ones lauded by liberals. “Phony Kamala Harris is Joe Biden’s political living will. Her radical-left beliefs should cause every American to worry about her being just one heartbeat away from becoming president,” the Trump campaign says on its website.

[old salt]

The TR carrier strike group was already in the Persian Gulf on a scheduled rotational deployment.
The Lincoln strike group was already scheduled to relieve them on station.
Ops normal. Not a big deal.
https://news.usni.org/2024/08/02/carrie ... nst-israel

Yes. Ops Normal. What does "normal ops" mean for America since WWII: NeoCon.

Arming Ukraine is "ops normal". It's why both Trump and Biden did it: Ops Normal.

What Trump did was a pittance in comparison. Done for deterrence. Just enough to prevent a total collapse if invaded.

All or nothing logic. Devoid of a rational comparison. What do you think Trump will do if elected ?

Recall you BRAGGED about Trump arming them, because that's what stopped the Russian army Cold.

Now, as you always do, you change your mind, and move the goalposts, and call it a pittance because you want to "win" a discussion.

All or nothing is your way of weaseling out something you said in the past. It's the equivalent of "I can't refute your point, so I'm going to fling poo, and hope you think that's a response".

Trump armed Ukraine. You don't like that fact here in 2024, so you're on here trying to diminish it and move the goalposts....when you lectured me about how that's what kept Kyiv from falling at the start of the war.

Keeping Kyiv from falling ain't "a pittance'...not even with your throwing in "in comparison" Get out of here with this stuff.

It was a difference maker in Ukraine's success in stopping the initial invasion & preventing the collapse of the govt.
It was nowhere near enough to win back territory, let alone mount a counteroffensive, which failed.
It was a pittance in the cost, amount & magnitude of what's been provided since the invasion. F-16's are arriving.
More all-or-nothing logic fail.

Keeping Kyiv is LITERALLY the "all". Literally. Kyiv falls, Ukraine is done. Game over.

You're mad at yourself for bragging about Trump arming them. Too late now. You're arguing with yourself. Again.

You're making my point. The aid Trump provided was critical & sufficient to prevent a total collapse but not enough to win back all lost territory. It's not that complicated, despite your attempts to make it so. I'm glad Trump did what he did. Otherwise, he'd be blamed for losing Ukraine.

[a fan]

The TR carrier strike group was already in the Persian Gulf on a scheduled rotational deployment.
The Lincoln strike group was already scheduled to relieve them on station.
Ops normal. Not a big deal.
https://news.usni.org/2024/08/02/carrie ... nst-israel

Yes. Ops Normal. What does "normal ops" mean for America since WWII: NeoCon.

Arming Ukraine is "ops normal". It's why both Trump and Biden did it: Ops Normal.

What Trump did was a pittance in comparison. Done for deterrence. Just enough to prevent a total collapse if invaded.

All or nothing logic. Devoid of a rational comparison. What do you think Trump will do if elected ?

Recall you BRAGGED about Trump arming them, because that's what stopped the Russian army Cold.

Now, as you always do, you change your mind, and move the goalposts, and call it a pittance because you want to "win" a discussion.

All or nothing is your way of weaseling out something you said in the past. It's the equivalent of "I can't refute your point, so I'm going to fling poo, and hope you think that's a response".

Trump armed Ukraine. You don't like that fact here in 2024, so you're on here trying to diminish it and move the goalposts....when you lectured me about how that's what kept Kyiv from falling at the start of the war.

Keeping Kyiv from falling ain't "a pittance'...not even with your throwing in "in comparison" Get out of here with this stuff.

It was a difference maker in Ukraine's success in stopping the initial invasion & preventing the collapse of the govt.
It was nowhere near enough to win back territory, let alone mount a counteroffensive, which failed.
It was a pittance in the cost, amount & magnitude of what's been provided since the invasion. F-16's are arriving.
More all-or-nothing logic fail.

Keeping Kyiv is LITERALLY the "all". Literally. Kyiv falls, Ukraine is done. Game over.

You're mad at yourself for bragging about Trump arming them. Too late now. You're arguing with yourself. Again.

You're making my point. The aid Trump provided was critical & sufficient to prevent a total collapse but not enough to win back all lost territory. It's not that complicated, despite your attempts to make it so..

I'm doing no such thing...you're just trying to move the conversation away from where it started: "Ops Normal"=Neo Con. That's it.

"Arming some guy" is Neo-Con...which is why both Trump and Biden did it. And also why Trump and Biden both armed Taiwan. That's it...factual stuff, there's nothing to debate here.

[old salt]

The TR carrier strike group was already in the Persian Gulf on a scheduled rotational deployment.
The Lincoln strike group was already scheduled to relieve them on station.
Ops normal. Not a big deal.
https://news.usni.org/2024/08/02/carrie ... nst-israel

Yes. Ops Normal. What does "normal ops" mean for America since WWII: NeoCon.

Arming Ukraine is "ops normal". It's why both Trump and Biden did it: Ops Normal.

What Trump did was a pittance in comparison. Done for deterrence. Just enough to prevent a total collapse if invaded.

All or nothing logic. Devoid of a rational comparison. What do you think Trump will do if elected ?

Recall you BRAGGED about Trump arming them, because that's what stopped the Russian army Cold.

Now, as you always do, you change your mind, and move the goalposts, and call it a pittance because you want to "win" a discussion.

All or nothing is your way of weaseling out something you said in the past. It's the equivalent of "I can't refute your point, so I'm going to fling poo, and hope you think that's a response".

Trump armed Ukraine. You don't like that fact here in 2024, so you're on here trying to diminish it and move the goalposts....when you lectured me about how that's what kept Kyiv from falling at the start of the war.

Keeping Kyiv from falling ain't "a pittance'...not even with your throwing in "in comparison" Get out of here with this stuff.

It was a difference maker in Ukraine's success in stopping the initial invasion & preventing the collapse of the govt.
It was nowhere near enough to win back territory, let alone mount a counteroffensive, which failed.
It was a pittance in the cost, amount & magnitude of what's been provided since the invasion. F-16's are arriving.
More all-or-nothing logic fail.

Keeping Kyiv is LITERALLY the "all". Literally. Kyiv falls, Ukraine is done. Game over.

You're mad at yourself for bragging about Trump arming them. Too late now. You're arguing with yourself. Again.

You're making my point. The aid Trump provided was critical & sufficient to prevent a total collapse but not enough to win back all lost territory. It's not that complicated, despite your attempts to make it so..

I'm doing no such thing...you're just trying to move the conversation away from where it started: "Ops Normal"=Neo Con. That's it.

"Arming some guy" is Neo-Con...which is why both Trump and Biden did it. And also why Trump and Biden both armed Taiwan. That's it...factual stuff, there's nothing to debate here.

Your premise is stupid. We armed allies long before the term NeoCon was invented. Recall Lend-Lease.
We've armed Israel since birth. We're selling arms to Taiwan as we have to numerous allies.
Short horizon. Shallow mind. Waste of my time arguing an obvious point.

[a fan]

Short horizon. Shallow mind. Waste of my time arguing an obvious point.

I have a shallow mind? Neat. Any other insults you want to throw my way?

Lend lease is Neo Con, you got it. Not my fault there wasn't a term for that line of thinking yet. Seems you agree with my point just fine, and want to argue and call me stupid because it makes you feel good.

[old salt]

For afan's edification.

The Biden-Harris economic record :
-- nearly $7 trillion in new spending
-- Harris broke ties in Senate to pass
(1) $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan
(2) $739 billion Inflation Reduction Act
-- Inflation peaked at 9.1 % in June 2022

Inflation increase, by sector, Jan '21 to Jun '24
Food == 21.5%
Shelter == 21.6%
Energy == 32.8%
Overall == 19.2%

CBP SW border encounters
FY '21 == 1,734,686
FY '22 == 2,378.944
FY '23 == 2,475,699
FY '24 == 1,821,652 = 6 mos FYTD Oct-Jun

S border CBP/FBI terrorist watch list arrests between ports of entry
FY 2017 to 2021 = 26
FY 2022 = 98
FY 2023 = 169
FY 2024 = 93 (Oct-Jun)

S border Fentanyl seizures
FY '21 = 10,586 lbs
FY '22 = 14.104 lbs
FY '23 = 26,718 lbs
FY '24 = 14,541 lbs (Oct-Jun)

[Seacoaster(1)]

Meanwhile, from the planet Brainworm:

https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/sta ... 9798347109

[MDlaxfan76]

I'd like to hear someone on the right or middle explain what exactly they don't like about Kamala.
Sure, there might be someone else we'd prefer, but what is it that you don't actually like?
Is it actually disqualifying?

She's further to the left than Bernie, Liz Warren & AOC.
If you haven't liked Biden's decisions & policies, you'll like Kamala's even less.
She's never been in a job where she had to make a decision under pressure.
You may not like Trump, but he's made live or death national security decisions which have turned out well.

nope, not to the left of Warren, nor AOC.
She did barely nudge out Bernie in 2019 when in the Senate representing California's perspectives, but not Warren.
But none of these are actually extreme lefties.

She made all sorts of prosecutorial decisions "under pressure".

Come on, Trump tried to make all sorts of decisions but, according to you, was restrained by a bunch of successive current or ex military folks who were 'guardrails' for him...gonna have those guard rails which he hated next time? No way.

But let's get specific on here, exactly which "policies" that Harris espouses today do you find so "left" abhorrent that they are disqualifying? Are any of those policies to the left of most of European countries' positions?

I can't think of any.

doesn't mean I'm thrilled with her, but I'll take some degree of competence and norms and forward social progress over racist, nativist, misogynist etc offered up by the other side, thanks very much.

when the GOP returns to its senses, if they can, let us know.

Just watch the forthcoming GOP ads. She's on record. You'll find a way to rationalize or equivocate them away.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-go ... 08657.html

How liberal is she? Watchdog groups rate the Senate record of Kamala Harris

BY DAVID LIGHTMAN. AUGUST 15, 2020

Sen. Kamala Harris’ voting record has one of the Senate’s most liberal throughout her three years in Congress, according to congressional watchdog groups. Americans for Democratic Action, a liberal advocacy group that compiles ratings based on major votes, gave her perfect scores in 2017 and 2018.

Fourteen senators, all Democrats, had perfect scores in 2017 and 10 had 100s in 2018. The Democratic Senate average was 88.8 in 2017 and 88.6 in 2018. Harris voted the group’s way last year on key votes every time she was present. The California Democrat missed four of the votes as she waged her presidential campaign, which ended in December. A separate analysis by GovTrack, a nonpartisan organization that compiles data on congressional legislation, found that the presumptive Democratic vice presidential nominee was the “most liberal senator” last year based on its look at legislation she co-sponsored and its co-sponsors.

Her liberal rating from Americans for Democratic Action comes from the organization’s annual selection of 20 votes it considers very important. Harris has voted the ADA’s way on 56, missing four because of her campaign last year. Several of her votes opposed conservative judges. Last year, for instance, she voted against the nominations of Kenneth Kiyul Lee and Lawrence Van Dyke to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, which includes California. Lee drew fire because of comments when in college that gay men got AIDS at a greater rate than heterosexual men because gays are more promiscuous. She voted against the nominations of William Barr as attorney general and Andrew Wheeler as Environmental Protection Agency administrator. GovTrack, using a different analysis, found her to be the “least likely to cosponsor a bipartisan bill,” even though she cosponsored the eighth most bills of anyone in the Senate. It noted Harris has supported expanding public access to government health care as well as debt-free college. This year, Harris has won praise from fellow Democrats for championing police reform initiatives. She was a leader in the effort in the Senate, but progress there stalled as Republicans and Democrats could not agree. Harris’ record is anathema to conservatives. The American Conservative Union gives her a 3.03 lifetime score out of 100. Some of the votes that counted against her, such as the confirmations of Barr and Wheeler, were the same ones lauded by liberals. “Phony Kamala Harris is Joe Biden’s political living will. Her radical-left beliefs should cause every American to worry about her being just one heartbeat away from becoming president,” the Trump campaign says on its website.

not remotely an extreme lefty to oppose those folks' nominations, heck, I did as well.
But, sure, that's what MAGA will paint her as being.
No doubt about it.

But we were talking reality here, not campaign strategy.

[MDlaxfan76]

For afan's edification.

The Biden-Harris economic record :
-- nearly $7 trillion in new spending
-- Harris broke ties in Senate to pass
(1) $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan
(2) $739 billion Inflation Reduction Act
-- Inflation peaked at 9.1 % in June 2022

Inflation increase, by sector, Jan '21 to Jun '24
Food == 21.5%
Shelter == 21.6%
Energy == 32.8%
Overall == 19.2%

CBP SW border encounters
FY '21 == 1,734,686
FY '22 == 2,378.944
FY '23 == 2,475,699
FY '24 == 1,821,652 = 6 mos FYTD Oct-Jun

S border CBP/FBI terrorist watch list arrests between ports of entry
FY 2017 to 2021 = 26
FY 2022 = 98
FY 2023 = 169
FY 2024 = 93 (Oct-Jun)

S border Fentanyl seizures
FY '21 = 10,586 lbs
FY '22 = 14.104 lbs
FY '23 = 26,718 lbs
FY '24 = 14,541 lbs (Oct-Jun)

Strongest recovery from Covid of any developed country in the world.
Strongest job growth, lower inflation.
God forbid we actually invest in infrastructure and strategic technology manufacturing.
Two chief strategic rivals dramatically diminished relative to US from pre 2021.
NATO hugely stronger. Alliances around the world hugely stronger.

Only in MAGA world is improved and more effective border security against fentanyl flow, measured in fentanyl seizures, a negative.
Same for more nailing of terrorist watch list entries.

But hey, keep consuming that MAGA feed.

It's not as if the world isn't a very difficult and dangerous place, nor that governance is easy or smooth or always predictable. Lots WILL go wrong, it's how leadership deals with adversities and setbacks and challenges that matters.

Trump proved to us that he was completely clueless, inept, and dishonest in how he publicly responded to the chief crisis HE faced...bleach and horse dewormer.

[MDlaxfan76]

The TR carrier strike group was already in the Persian Gulf on a scheduled rotational deployment.
The Lincoln strike group was already scheduled to relieve them on station.
Ops normal. Not a big deal.
https://news.usni.org/2024/08/02/carrie ... nst-israel

Yes. Ops Normal. What does "normal ops" mean for America since WWII: NeoCon.

Arming Ukraine is "ops normal". It's why both Trump and Biden did it: Ops Normal.

What Trump did was a pittance in comparison. Done for deterrence. Just enough to prevent a total collapse if invaded.

All or nothing logic. Devoid of a rational comparison. What do you think Trump will do if elected ?

Recall you BRAGGED about Trump arming them, because that's what stopped the Russian army Cold.

Now, as you always do, you change your mind, and move the goalposts, and call it a pittance because you want to "win" a discussion.

All or nothing is your way of weaseling out something you said in the past. It's the equivalent of "I can't refute your point, so I'm going to fling poo, and hope you think that's a response".

Trump armed Ukraine. You don't like that fact here in 2024, so you're on here trying to diminish it and move the goalposts....when you lectured me about how that's what kept Kyiv from falling at the start of the war.

Keeping Kyiv from falling ain't "a pittance'...not even with your throwing in "in comparison" Get out of here with this stuff.

It was a difference maker in Ukraine's success in stopping the initial invasion & preventing the collapse of the govt.
It was nowhere near enough to win back territory, let alone mount a counteroffensive, which failed.
It was a pittance in the cost, amount & magnitude of what's been provided since the invasion. F-16's are arriving.
More all-or-nothing logic fail.

Keeping Kyiv is LITERALLY the "all". Literally. Kyiv falls, Ukraine is done. Game over.

You're mad at yourself for bragging about Trump arming them. Too late now. You're arguing with yourself. Again.

You're making my point. The aid Trump provided was critical & sufficient to prevent a total collapse but not enough to win back all lost territory. It's not that complicated, despite your attempts to make it so..

I'm doing no such thing...you're just trying to move the conversation away from where it started: "Ops Normal"=Neo Con. That's it.

"Arming some guy" is Neo-Con...which is why both Trump and Biden did it. And also why Trump and Biden both armed Taiwan. That's it...factual stuff, there's nothing to debate here.

You guys are missing a key point which Salty has actually rather deftly sidestepped.

He's right that on a relative basis to post invasion Biden, what Trump provided Ukraine was a "pittance". Yes, that "pittance" AND the courage of the Ukrainians AND the ineptness of the Russian military early on, managed to slow Putin's blitzkrieg to a crawl on the outskirts of the capital. But Ukraine would nevertheless have collapsed had Biden, with Zelensky at the fore, not rallied the West to support Ukraine.

And Russia would have continued its march, step by step. Soviet Empire being restored. (Putin had long abandoned any notion of actual organic prosperity for Russia, so aggression and hyper nationalism are the obvious alternative). NATO would have eventually been engaged and the question at that point would have been whether the US would leave the Europeans to fend for themselves, or step up. Meanwhile, Chinese aggression would have been further emboldened, so easy (for MAGA think) to justify a turn away from those lefties in Europe who really should just get on the bandwagon of strong man control, right?. Let's fight the commies, and Islamic terrorists, not the white Christians...

[youthathletics]

Lipstick on a pig reply....KJPlaxfan76.

[MDlaxfan76]

Lipstick on a pig reply....KJPlaxfan76.

I'm really happy with my bacon, youth.
Which country would you prefer to live in over America over the past 4 years?
Seriously, Russia, China?
Japan?, Australia? India? You like what Brexit has done to the Brits?
France? Germany?

What I posted is a truthful and fair perspective.

You and I agree on plenty re various challenges that remain, but that's the thing you're avoiding...I know it all won't be perfect, that governance is darn hard...

[cradleandshoot]

For afan's edification.

The Biden-Harris economic record :
-- nearly $7 trillion in new spending
-- Harris broke ties in Senate to pass
(1) $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan
(2) $739 billion Inflation Reduction Act
-- Inflation peaked at 9.1 % in June 2022

Inflation increase, by sector, Jan '21 to Jun '24
Food == 21.5%
Shelter == 21.6%
Energy == 32.8%
Overall == 19.2%

CBP SW border encounters
FY '21 == 1,734,686
FY '22 == 2,378.944
FY '23 == 2,475,699
FY '24 == 1,821,652 = 6 mos FYTD Oct-Jun

S border CBP/FBI terrorist watch list arrests between ports of entry
FY 2017 to 2021 = 26
FY 2022 = 98
FY 2023 = 169
FY 2024 = 93 (Oct-Jun)

S border Fentanyl seizures
FY '21 = 10,586 lbs
FY '22 = 14.104 lbs
FY '23 = 26,718 lbs
FY '24 = 14,541 lbs (Oct-Jun)

Strongest recovery from Covid of any developed country in the world.
Strongest job growth, lower inflation.
God forbid we actually invest in infrastructure and strategic technology manufacturing.
Two chief strategic rivals dramatically diminished relative to US from pre 2021.
NATO hugely stronger. Alliances around the world hugely stronger.

Only in MAGA world is improved and more effective border security against fentanyl flow, measured in fentanyl seizures, a negative.
Same for more nailing of terrorist watch list entries.

But hey, keep consuming that MAGA feed.

It's not as if the world isn't a very difficult and dangerous place, nor that governance is easy or smooth or always predictable. Lots WILL go wrong, it's how leadership deals with adversities and setbacks and challenges that matters.

Trump proved to us that he was completely clueless, inept, and dishonest in how he publicly responded to the chief crisis HE faced...bleach and horse dewormer.

How ironic, Biden chose to carry on in the trump tradition of ineptitude and then kicked it up a notch. Keep on selling those sunshine, lollipops and rainbows. Do you do your own grocery shopping? Do you fill up your own gas tank? ( Or perhaps plug in your EV?) When you were still in Maryland did your property taxes go down? Have your utility bills gone down? These are the type of increases that are burdening middle America.
Here in NYS in my wife and my world...
Property taxes up 8%... waiting for this years bill

Grocery Bill up around 10%... we are doing more shopping at Aldi's.

Gas Bill up

Utility Bill up

Thanks for reminding me again how good we have it under Biden. We hadn't noticed before.

Oh and NATO is getting stronger. That armored brigade being pre positioned in Poland happens to be from The United States Army. Why not France? Why not Germany? Why not Great Britain? The last time I checked they have armored brigades as well. NATO is stronger because of the commitment made by the United States.