Religion in America

[youthathletics]

Martin Luther lead a revolution over theology

I know that and his history rather well.

[OCanada]

Then why did you say “control”? Your knowledge of history to date has been sketchy at best

[MDlaxfan76]

More people have been killed in the name of the Bible than for any other reason in history. FACT.

I know right, why put up a fight over something that is said to be make believe, makes no sense.

Just another form of bending the knee. The issue is control. The wars around religion are just the apotheosis of the control impulse: conform or be dead. Nice, right?

What Christian wars have there been in the last ~400 years? Further, all many of those Christian wars were primarily fought against the bending of the knee hierarchy....they turned out successfully, in our favor, arguably so you and I can post here.

Fast forward.....if history is an indicator of the future, it presents the dichotomy of (radical/calculated) islam and jihaad, which is currently clear and present danger....the 20 year GWOT is a prime example. And we are told, that anyone not from that portion of the globe simply does not understand them...as if, leave them alone and allow radicalism to prevail.

So yes, the church at that time wanted 'control' and Jesus, people like Martin Luther rightfully challenged them.

I think we agree here, but lumping in 2000 years of history may have us talking past one another.

By example:
American "Christianity":
https://www.pioneer.org/blogs/compass-s ... -genocide/

The Holocaust had at its roots the anti-semitism of religious bigotries and supersessionism, both Lutheran and Catholic complicity.

But sure, religious zealotry of all sorts has been at the roots of multiple genocides and 'holy wars', both within faiths and faith against faith. And, yes, Islamic extremism is a major danger in the world.

Christian Nationalism is a major threat within the USA, and if it gained control, would be a major threat to the rest of the world. Let's prevent that from happening by recognizing it and rejecting it.

[youthathletics]

Then why did you say “control”? Your knowledge of history to date has been sketchy at best

B/c I assumed you would know your history as it relates to this topic, evidentially you do not. ML left / fought against the catholic church for many reasons, of significance, their 'control' of the selling of indulgences for forgiveness.

This may help you, from our childhood era of teaching: https://www.britannica.com/summary/Refo ... 0authority.

[Brooklyn]

What Christian wars have there been in the last ~400 years? Further, all many of those Christian wars were primarily fought against the bending of the knee hierarchy...

A certain character who proclaimed himself a modern day Messiah had a certain way of exterminating Jews in the name of Christ about 80 years or so ago. Nasty guy for damn sure.

[3rdPersonPlural]

What Christian wars have there been in the last ~400 years? Further, all many of those Christian wars were primarily fought against the bending of the knee hierarchy...

A certain character who proclaimed himself a modern day Messiah had a certain way of exterminating Jews in the name of Christ about 80 years or so ago. Nasty guy for damn sure.

On every Wehrmacht Soldiers belt buckle.

[jhu72]

You actually could leave the wedding part off of there, no?

... that is certainly true as well.

[jhu72]

I defined myself as a religious Apathist since I learned the definition of the word Apathy. IOW I care about as much about your dogma and beliefs as I do about Buzkashi. I feel bad for the goat, but not that much.

But I have patience.

Example: When my kids were small, our little family of 4 was known to take the occasional meal at the local Micky-D’s. Right after we sat down with our meals, 4 furtive looking men toting heavy books larded with bookmarks came in with a little girl roughly my offsprings age.
The girl was dressed in her Sunday best and looked beyond anxious. The guys weren’t looking at the menus. They were looking at the diners. I had them in my side eye.
Long story short, the little girl got vectored at our table and began to aggressively proselytize in a timid voice at us. A sweet frightened little creature trying to hector us. The Former Trophy Bride was trying not to laugh. I felt just awful for her and asked leading questions – buying questions, for us who’ve worked in commerce – so we didn’t appear as hostile as she feared we were. My eldest son, who was all of 8 at the time, soon groked her underlying message and interjected “Wanna go play in the play room?” That broke the ice and the 3 kids frolicked off.
The grim men with the bookmarked Bibles then descended on us hoping to save the mission before retrieving their charge. More practiced hectoring ensued. Thankfully, the Former Trophy Bride excoriated them for child abuse. Loudly. 110 lbs. of pulchritude and fury. She drove them out the doors they’d come in without ever mentioning salvation and then marched back in, retrieved the little girl, and marched her out to the befuddled proselytizing team. When she returned, she was greeted with scattered applause.

Whatever patience I had with evangelical proselytizing ended that day. I’m good with folks who honor their Gods and respect their Dogmas and keep it to themselves, but please keep it to yourself.

... good story!

[cradleandshoot]

I defined myself as a religious Apathist since I learned the definition of the word Apathy. IOW I care about as much about your dogma and beliefs as I do about Buzkashi. I feel bad for the goat, but not that much.

But I have patience.

Example: When my kids were small, our little family of 4 was known to take the occasional meal at the local Micky-D’s. Right after we sat down with our meals, 4 furtive looking men toting heavy books larded with bookmarks came in with a little girl roughly my offsprings age.
The girl was dressed in her Sunday best and looked beyond anxious. The guys weren’t looking at the menus. They were looking at the diners. I had them in my side eye.
Long story short, the little girl got vectored at our table and began to aggressively proselytize in a timid voice at us. A sweet frightened little creature trying to hector us. The Former Trophy Bride was trying not to laugh. I felt just awful for her and asked leading questions – buying questions, for us who’ve worked in commerce – so we didn’t appear as hostile as she feared we were. My eldest son, who was all of 8 at the time, soon groked her underlying message and interjected “Wanna go play in the play room?” That broke the ice and the 3 kids frolicked off.
The grim men with the bookmarked Bibles then descended on us hoping to save the mission before retrieving their charge. More practiced hectoring ensued. Thankfully, the Former Trophy Bride excoriated them for child abuse. Loudly. 110 lbs. of pulchritude and fury. She drove them out the doors they’d come in without ever mentioning salvation and then marched back in, retrieved the little girl, and marched her out to the befuddled proselytizing team. When she returned, she was greeted with scattered applause.

Whatever patience I had with evangelical proselytizing ended that day. I’m good with folks who honor their Gods and respect their Dogmas and keep it to themselves, but please keep it to yourself.

... good story!

Shame on you... your never going to plant your 1000 dollar seed? The Sunday morning evangelist promised that you will be richly rewarded. For a 1000 dollars God doesn't care if your an atheist.

[jhu72]

Opus Dei had a seat at the table in writing 2025 plan. How nice.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Opus Dei had a seat at the table in writing 2025 plan. How nice.

[jhu72]

Opus Dei had a seat at the table in writing 2025 plan. How nice.

... for those who don't know, Opus Dei was founded and grew up in Franco's Spain. A number of Opus Dei members were Franco cabinet members and supporters of Franco's fascism. During the period Jesuit leadership considered Opus Dei the "Church of Spain" and a problem for the Catholic Church as a whole.

As I said, "how nice".

[PizzaSnake]

Opus Dei had a seat at the table in writing 2025 plan. How nice.

Pushing “fentanyl for the masses” via the communion wafers — “take and eat, this is my body”?

[Seacoaster(1)]

Opus Dei had a seat at the table in writing 2025 plan. How nice.

Good to have the thoughts of the pre-Copernican crowd. Swell.

[OCanada]

Then why did you say “control”? Your knowledge of history to date has been sketchy at best

B/c I assumed you would know your history as it relates to this topic, evidentially you do not. ML left / fought against the catholic church for many reasons, of significance, their 'control' of the selling of indulgences for forgiveness.

This may help you, from our childhood era of teaching: https://www.britannica.com/summary/Refo ... 0authority.

Basically you were wrong again. But suppose i credit your “assumption” is accurate where does that leave you for making it?

[cradleandshoot]

Dang it YA, all of the posts you make on this forum and now I find out your wrong 100% of the time.

[Andersen]

My best friend from high school has been taken with, (fallen under the spell of) Opus Dei for the last ten years or so. He has a spiritual counselor who he meets with every Saturday morning. He also gives them a good deal of money.
Another friend and I were having a few beers with him last year. He starting talking about how his two twenty something daughters, would never be happy when married unless they completely submitted to the will of their, (future) husbands, etc., etc. My friend, who has two daughters of his own, and I were flabbergasted. Surprisingly, his daughters have minimal contact with him these days.

[3rdPersonPlural]

Completely off topic, but reading through ancient posts on this thread reminded me of a conversation I had with an elder at a successful Evangelical church.

Those people who knock on your door or accost you in the streets are not usually self motivated. It's usually an action to win favor with the church (in their minds) and a clever ruse for the church to prove to the newbie that the unenlightened are hostile.

This underlines the "Us vs. Them" mentality that gets people to believe whatever you tell them and do whatever you ask. The Missionary at your door is, in the truest sense, being brought to heel.

The best way to defeat this is invite the door knocker in. Give 'em a glass of ice water and offer them a seat. Ask what their message is. Listen nicely.

Then tell them that their religion sounds very nice. Would they like to hear about yours? No? Well, in you estimation, yours is better FOR YOU, and perhaps the door knocker can chalk the discussion up to market research or something. Discussions are always more productive than speechs, right?

Then the door knocker scurries off. They're prepared for hostility from the Godless, not hospitality. Hospitality breaks their mind.

The reason for this is to actually save the door knocker from the grifters who are trying to get them to buy in to the cult they're selling. If you're not hostile, the 'Us vs. Them" prompt doesn't resonate.

Another friend of mine answers the door and says: "I'm on a Zoom call now, but I'd love to compare our faiths. Here's a pencil and a piece of paper. Write down your address and I'll stop by and tell you about MY beliefs!"

Them she closes the door.

Works the charm!

[Brooklyn]

What Christian wars have there been in the last ~400 years? Further, all many of those Christian wars were primarily fought against the bending of the knee hierarchy...

A certain character who proclaimed himself a modern day Messiah had a certain way of exterminating Jews in the name of Christ about 80 years or so ago. Nasty guy for damn sure.

On every Wehrmacht Soldiers belt buckle.

Opus Dei and fascist dictator Franco:






Total Christian evil.

[molo]

On the topic if door knockers: if you want to get rid of Jehovah’s Witnesses, don’t argue with them. Just tell them you’re Catholic. They’ll assume you’re brainwashed and move on.