Speaking of the immigration issue, C&S, check this out:cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 2:33 pmMy bad Dis. She succeeded brilliantly regarding when it came to addressing the calamity and chaos at the southern border. She did such a magnificent job that the Biden administration kept it top secret. No need to get at about it. Please don't get spittle all over your computer screen. I'm not the one you need to get angry at. Those Republican trump people are probably now coming up with their game plan. What im expressing to you is my opinion and informing you about something you already know. Kamala Harris will be asked in front of the American people about what she did or did not accomplish as Joe Bidens Czarina to deal with the South border. The Republicans are going to be hammering home the issue. They see it as a real weakness that Harris has that they can advantage of. Either she will or will not have a logical explanation for the American people that they can understand. BTW, the garden is doing good. I never did get around to planting that crabapple tree in your honor.dislaxxic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 1:32 pmWith as much respect as i can muster...your "perspective" is warped.cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2024 1:04 pmIf Kamala becomes our next CiC she will have to be aware that her chops will tested very quickly by bad actors from a few rather powerful nations that don't and never will respect a female president. I keep bringing this up because it is relevant to her qualifications. She was handed the job of handling the disaster at the southern border and finding a doable solution that all sides could agree on. I do know that after a period of time the matter went dormant and her mission was kicked to the curb by her own boss. I don't say this to demean her in anyway. I say this because once it is game on in September she will be hammered mercilessly on this matter by team trump. She will have to explain to the American people what went wrong and why. The way it looks from my perspective is she failed at whatever it was her objective was. Nobody in the Biden administration ever explained to my understanding what went wrong.
She has most certainly NOT "failed at whatever it was her objective was" [sic]
As you know, "fixing" the southern border means different things to different people. Trump thinks one thing, which is TOTALLY out of proportion and unreasonable. You KNOW he does nothing but lie about it, right? The border issue is in crisis to be sure, but trying to measure HER competency against that one issue is a total fool's errand. How many times did Trump scream "MURDER!" "Hundreds of THOUSANDS of Americans murdered by insane, illegal aliens!!" during that debate?? That's a clue, Cradle, one of his most frequent lies.
You know that a VERY conservative Senator from deep red Oklahoma put together a comprehensive immigration bill that made NUMEROUS concessions to "the left" along the way, right? Do YOU know Harris' contribution to THAT effort? Do you know who ACTUALLY kicked that effort to the curb?
Your shallow understanding of the border wedge issue belies the fact that you have totally adopted the MAGA framing of the border issue. NO ONE, including the Orange Moron, has "solved" this issue...as we have discussed at great length on these boards...neither side (though yes, mostly the right, wants to keep it out there as a wedge issue) has fixed it.
Trying to fix a meme to Ms. Harris on this score is shallow and not likely to work with anyone paying close attention who is NOT a devoted MAGA cultist. You've hung out around here long enough to know that trying to paint Harris as not ready for office, on THIS score, is flat out wrong. Stop trying to make the MAGA case for them, Cradle. Please.
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Donald Trump Is Becoming Increasingly Unhinged on Immigration
Get some knowledge about the issue Cranky...making the MAGA case that Harris is incompetent because she somehow effed up the Southern Border is the kind of Straw Man BS that Fox News is spewing everyday...don't let it further warp your mind...THE NEWS HAS MOVED SO FAST over the past few weeks that Donald Trump has gotten away with some insanity that makes his past outrages look almost sensible. Among the most unhinged claims in the disjointed litany of terribles that spewed from his mouth as he accepted the GOP nomination was this doozy:
What the hell was he talking about? It’s hard to follow what passes for evidence and logic in Trump’s mind, but his reasoning seems to be that if you lock up a huge portion of your population, you’ll solve your crime problem. In that vein, Trump ranted on about El Salvador—which he chose not to name, referring only to “a certain country, and I happen to like the president of that country very much.” Since President Nayib Bukele took office in 2019, he’s prosecuted a relentless campaign against the gangs that had made many parts of El Salvador a lawless wasteland in recent years. But Trump wasn’t exactly complimenting Bukele for implementing a state of emergency in 2022 that has seen tens of thousands of arrests—he sees in it a plot against America. Trump claims Bukele isn’t really locking up the criminals, “he’s sending all of his criminals, his drug dealers, his people that are in jails, he’s sending them all to the United States.”Venezuela, Caracas, high crime, high crime. Caracas, Venezuela, really a dangerous place. But not anymore, because in Venezuela, crime is down 72 percent. In fact, if they would ever in this election, I hate to even say that, we will have our next Republican convention in Venezuela because it will be safe. Our cities, our cities will be so unsafe we won’t be able, we will not be able to have it there.
It’s worth looking at Trump’s outrageous invasion fantasies in depth—and the media, in general, does little to counter the craziest of them. He repeats them so often they become a mantra: We’re being invaded by would-be Hannibal Lecters. X country (fill in any Latin American, Caribbean or African nation you like) is sending criminals, murderers, rapists, and insane asylum inmates to our southern border, and the Biden administration is letting them in to wreak havoc, steal jobs, “killing hundreds of thousands of people a year.” The media fact-checks Trump with anodyne comments that immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than the American born—which is certainly true but doesn’t fully call out the danger of Trump’s dark obsession.
Since 2015, Trump has claimed that other countries “send” their worst to our borders. Again and again, Trump asserts that Mexico is “not sending their best,” but, with few exceptions, countries don’t send people to the United States. Immigrants come here of their own free will because they see America more in Ronald Reagan’s image of “a shining city on a hill” than Donald Trump’s dystopian vision of American carnage.
BUT WHAT ABOUT TRUMP’S specific claims that Venezuela and El Salvador have experienced a big drop in crime because they are pushing their criminals to flee north? Venezuelan murders are down, but nothing like Trump’s 72 percent figure, which fact checkers have been unable to track to a reliable source. The government itself hasn’t reported numbers on murders or robberies in ten years, but the Venezuelan Observatory of Violence Social Sciences Laboratory has published a well-regarded study on violence in the country. The group found a 25 percent drop in violent deaths in Venezuela in 2023 compared to the previous two years. But homicides declined by relatively little compared to deaths by police action and the largest category, “deaths under investigation,” which may include the large numbers of extrajudicial killings that happen in Venezuela, as in so many other brutal authoritarian states.
El Salvador has experienced a bigger drop in violent crime—last year, according to the government, murders were down nearly 70 percent. (Maybe Trump confused Venezuela and El Salvador?) But Bukele has achieved that impressive drop not just by incarcerating 2 percent of his population—the highest rate in the world, using tactics that have brought widespread condemnation—but by buying off some of the country’s most powerful gangs, including MS-13, whose branches in the United States are responsible for murders, human trafficking, and a host of other crimes.
Of course, this is all giving Trump too much credit. He seems, based on his convention speech, to have no idea what’s going on in El Salvador at all. He began his discussion of El Salvador—or at least, it was probably El Salvador, but he never actually named the country he was thinking of—by riffing on the “late, great Hannibal Lecter.”
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