2024

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Kismet
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Re: 2024

Post by Kismet »

njbill wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 2:41 pm You are overreacting to Joe and his condition. He is frail, physically, but he is OK mentally. He is inarticulate. The ability to deliver a glib, ad libbed speech is way overrated. Did you ever see an interview with Potter Stewart? One of the most inarticulate guys on the planet, yet he was a Supreme Court justice for many years. His mind was fine.

Don’t know how old you are, but I have seen many many people in my life get frail physically as they age yet remain pretty sharp mentally. That’s Joe.

The goal is to beat Trump. Joe can do that, though no guarantee.

Harris cannot do that. Would it be George McGovern in 1972 in terms of the EC? No, but running Harris would be an even more catastrophically bad decision by the party than running McGovern was.

Others could perhaps beat Trump, but to get to them, you’d have to destroy the party so they are not a realistic option.

So it is go with Joe or lose for sure. The party and the elites need to get behind him yesterday. If they continue all this pearl clutching, sure, Joe will definitely lose. He needs the parties support. Work for Joe, the party, and the country, not against them. Pretty simple.
Bill - have you watched the BET interview yet? If not I suggest you do - where he could not recall the name of his Secretary Of Defense in a garbled few sentences that were mostly intelligible. '

Voters are being asked to decide for FOUR YEARS. This is how he is now? What will it look like in a year, 2 or 3? That is why it is such a heavy lift.
njbill
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Re: 2024

Post by njbill »

I have no problem with Joe for two days, two weeks, two months, two years, and then turn things over to Kamala.

The key is to beat Trump in November. That is the only thing that is important.

Joe can do it, Harris cannot.
DMac
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Re: 2024

Post by DMac »

I hope you're right, njb, but I'm not so sure about that.
Any way you look at it it's pretty sad that these are our
two choices (I'm okay with Joe but he sure does come
across as mighty shaky these days).
I really think Trump wins it again (thanks to the divine
intervention, of course).
Last edited by DMac on Sat Jul 20, 2024 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
njbill
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Re: 2024

Post by njbill »

Kismet wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 2:45 pm
njbill wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 2:41 pm You are overreacting to Joe and his condition. He is frail, physically, but he is OK mentally. He is inarticulate. The ability to deliver a glib, ad libbed speech is way overrated. Did you ever see an interview with Potter Stewart? One of the most inarticulate guys on the planet, yet he was a Supreme Court justice for many years. His mind was fine.

Don’t know how old you are, but I have seen many many people in my life get frail physically as they age yet remain pretty sharp mentally. That’s Joe.

The goal is to beat Trump. Joe can do that, though no guarantee.

Harris cannot do that. Would it be George McGovern in 1972 in terms of the EC? No, but running Harris would be an even more catastrophically bad decision by the party than running McGovern was.

Others could perhaps beat Trump, but to get to them, you’d have to destroy the party so they are not a realistic option.

So it is go with Joe or lose for sure. The party and the elites need to get behind him yesterday. If they continue all this pearl clutching, sure, Joe will definitely lose. He needs the parties support. Work for Joe, the party, and the country, not against them. Pretty simple.
Bill - have you watched the BET interview yet? If not I suggest you do - where he could not recall the name of his Secretary Of Defense in a garbled few sentences that were mostly intelligible. '

Voters are being asked to decide for FOUR YEARS. This is how he is now? What will it look like in a year, 2 or 3? That is why it is such a heavy lift.
Watched the clip. Not good to be sure, but, gee, I struggle with names at times as well, and I am more than 10 years younger than him.

Look, everybody has to view the available evidence and make their own decisions. I’ve made mine. Others are free to make their own.
jhu72
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Re: 2024

Post by jhu72 »


Good advice from Michael Steele. In short democratic candidates are well positioned to win, up and down.

Stop worrying about Biden pulling down the ticket. It is not that kind of year!!! Dems are so strong, the field of candidates are capable of pulling Biden along with them, if they get their heads out of their asses!! Their fear is Biden pulls them down, if they are good candidates they win on the ISSUES. This is true for any of our potential presidential candidates - PERFECTION IS NOT REQUIRED!!

Just get past this self-inflicted mutiny BULLSH*T!! Every candidate has a roll to play, a united democratic party WINS!! on the issues!! :roll: If the democrats lose, it is not Joe Biden's fault -- it is this bullsh*t.
Last edited by jhu72 on Sat Jul 20, 2024 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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njbill
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Re: 2024

Post by njbill »

Yup. Not sure what thread I said this on, but the Democratic senatorial candidates in the swing states where Biden may be trailing are all up, some rather comfortably. West Virginia will go red, of course. Tester is in a tough race, but it sure seems to me that having Biden at the top of the ticket will help him more than Harris. Yes, I understand he has called for Biden to drop out. Seems perplexing to me.

I think the House is going to go blue by 5–10 votes. Lots of Republican candidates have resigned or retired. A good number of the House Republicans are historically bad candidates and people.
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youthathletics
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Re: 2024

Post by youthathletics »

Part of me believe the DNC wanted to pick their candidate after the primary all along. Tye push ramps up after the primary (this is the phase we are in now), Joe then removes himself as the 2024 candidate before the DNC, they vote in their new candidate just before of during the convention, that way Joe and Kamala are bounced at the same time. The excitement is back with vengeance, puts Trump into a 180 counter-punch figuring out how to tackle the new candidates.

I think that would be in the best interest of the country.
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ggait
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Re: 2024

Post by ggait »

njbill wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 2:48 pm I have no problem with Joe for two days, two weeks, two months, two years, and then turn things over to Kamala.

The key is to beat Trump in November. That is the only thing that is important.

Joe can do it, Harris cannot.
I agree that some 80 year olds still have it. Tony Fauci for one. Joe ain’t no Tony Fauci.

I don’t actually care if Joe can actually do the job or not. But GMAFB. No way the guy who can barely get on/off AF1 can run a strong campaign or beat Trump. Did you see those tapes Bill?

NFW debate Joe can do that either. Although we know he can beat Medicare!

The ref is giving Joe a standing 8 count. He’s one more bad poll from being knocked out cold. Will be coming any day now.

Black voters are only hanging onto Ghost Biden because they are afraid that Harris will get dumped. Give Harris a decent veep and let’s get on with it. Kelly, Shapiro, Beshear, Moore, etc.

Joe is a forking joke as a candidate. LOSER!!

Anyone with eyes can see it. And the cringe moments will keep coming until he quits.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
njbill
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Re: 2024

Post by njbill »

We are going around in circles. You will never ever convince me that Harris can win. Evidently, I will never ever convince you that Joe can.

Doesn’t seem to me to be very productive to continue this conversation. Agree?
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cradleandshoot
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Re: 2024

Post by cradleandshoot »

An open convention would do the Democrats a world of good. I understand that nobody on this forum agrees with me. I think lack of name recognition and political savvy would easily be overcome by Wes Moore. Having heard him talk during the bridge collapse was very impressive to me. His ability to speak and clearly articulate his point is not very common in todays political world. I would vote for him in a minute. IMO a fresh face with solid ideas is just what the Democrats could use.
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jhu72
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Re: 2024

Post by jhu72 »

I do not believe Moore or Shapiro want the VP position, in fact I think Moore has come out and said he will remain MD governor, he is not interested in President this cycle.

Beshear is good, Kelly is good. Personally l like Kelly best, something of an American hero (for VP).

Kamala will generate more excitement with the base than any of the named.

You know I think back, didn't the democrats nominate and win with some guy in a wheelchair. Can't remember his name. Was president a bunch of times. Wish I could remember his name.
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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: 2024

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

jhu72 wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:21 pm I do not believe Moore or Shapiro want the VP position, in fact I think Moore has come out and said he will remain MD governor, he is not interested in President this cycle.

Beshear is good, Kelly is good. Personally l like Kelly best, something of an American hero (for VP).

Kamala will generate more excitement with the base than any of the named.

You know I think back, didn't the democrats nominate and win with some guy in a wheelchair. Can't remember his name. Was president a bunch of times. Wish I could remember his name.
I believe when people see Kamala eat Donald’s lunch head to head, they may have a different opinion of her. Someone with have a brain will come across much better than The Donald. His act has gotten stale. Saw Mark Burns using his schtick. Right down to the “I can’t see in the back…is the Mainstream Media here…..? The people in the audience look bored. Crowds look smaller, older and poorer…. Kamala is much smarter than him and she has a logical mind developed as a career prosecutor. A friend told me years ago, he would hate to be married to her and have to answer her questions😂😂😂
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PizzaSnake
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Re: 2024

Post by PizzaSnake »

"Public ignorance, democracy's lethal draft, was served and drunk."

Written in 1991 about a different scandal, it rings truer today.

Where have the real reporters gone?
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
ggait
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Re: 2024

Post by ggait »

njbill wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 5:12 pm We are going around in circles. You will never ever convince me that Harris can win. Evidently, I will never ever convince you that Joe can.

Doesn’t seem to me to be very productive to continue this conversation. Agree?
Fair.

Either could win. Just a question of who is more likely.

Let’s see what the next round of polls says about Joe. It will be the knockout punch.

I personally don’t like Harris much. But I’ll go with the odds that come with something new not named Joe. I think Shapiro would be great.

Would you move on from Joe for someone other than Harris?
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
njbill
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Re: 2024

Post by njbill »

I will vote for the Democratic nominee, whether it be Biden, Harris, anybody else, a blade of grass, a lump of coal, or a piece of dog sh*t.

Trump is the single most dangerous American to our country and our democracy in history. He must be stopped. The only person more dangerous was his hero, Hitler.

I did not like Harris at all in 2020. I like her somewhat better now, but if I had that magic wand, there would be several others I would annoint before her.
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Re: 2024

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

njbill wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 9:38 pm I will vote for the Democratic nominee, whether it be Biden, Harris, anybody else, a blade of grass, a lump of coal, or a piece of dog sh*t.

Trump is the single most dangerous American to our country and our democracy in history. He must be stopped. The only person more dangerous was his hero, Hitler.

I did not like Harris at all in 2020. I like her somewhat better now, but if I had that magic wand, there would be several others I would annoint before her.
It could be an inanimate object. In my mind, Joe is just a figurehead. Lots of countries have them. We ain’t no better as we can all now clearly see.
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cradleandshoot
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Re: 2024

Post by cradleandshoot »

jhu72 wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:21 pm I do not believe Moore or Shapiro want the VP position, in fact I think Moore has come out and said he will remain MD governor, he is not interested in President this cycle.

Beshear is good, Kelly is good. Personally l like Kelly best, something of an American hero (for VP).

Kamala will generate more excitement with the base than any of the named.

You know I think back, didn't the democrats nominate and win with some guy in a wheelchair. Can't remember his name. Was president a bunch of times. Wish I could remember his name.
And his people worked due diligence so the American people never knew he was in a wheelchair. That is where the concept of transparency was born. :D
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cradleandshoot
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Re: 2024

Post by cradleandshoot »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:47 pm
jhu72 wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:21 pm I do not believe Moore or Shapiro want the VP position, in fact I think Moore has come out and said he will remain MD governor, he is not interested in President this cycle.

Beshear is good, Kelly is good. Personally l like Kelly best, something of an American hero (for VP).

Kamala will generate more excitement with the base than any of the named.

You know I think back, didn't the democrats nominate and win with some guy in a wheelchair. Can't remember his name. Was president a bunch of times. Wish I could remember his name.
I believe when people see Kamala eat Donald’s lunch head to head, they may have a different opinion of her. Someone with have a brain will come across much better than The Donald. His act has gotten stale. Saw Mark Burns using his schtick. Right down to the “I can’t see in the back…is the Mainstream Media here…..? The people in the audience look bored. Crowds look smaller, older and poorer…. Kamala is much smarter than him and she has a logical mind developed as a career prosecutor. A friend told me years ago, he would hate to be married to her and have to answer her questions😂😂😂
I would hate to be married to her and listen to that annoying cackling laugh. As to if she is smarter than trump, her IQ is right up there with a turnip. Hell even AOC wants her off of any ticket if Joe pulls the plug on his 2nd term. I find it hard to believe Harris will ever resonate with mainstream Americans.
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Seacoaster(1)
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Re: 2024

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

Republican Tom Nichols, in the Atlantic:

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters ... ll/679170/

"Donald Trump’s bizarre diatribe at the Republican National Convention shows why the prodemocracy coalition is so worried about beating the GOP nominee—even if it means that Joe Biden must step down.

Not Comparable

It’s been quite a year in politics, what with President Biden facing calls to drop out of the race and Trump having a meltdown in public after an assassination attempt and …

I’m sorry, did I say a year? I meant a week.

So much has happened, and political events have become so freakish, that we can all be forgiven for losing our bearings a bit. For the past few days, I’ve felt like Homer Simpson after he accidentally turned a toaster into a time machine and came back to find that Ned Flanders was the unchallenged dictator of the world.

But in the midst of all this, two things remain clear:

Joe Biden is showing significant signs of frailty and faces real opposition within his party to continuing his campaign.

Donald Trump is emotionally unwell.

These are not comparable problems
.

Nor did Biden and Trump have equally bad weeks. Biden is facing a revolt in his own party and is now recovering from COVID. Trump was nearly killed by a young loner.

Biden claims to still be in the race, an answer many elected Democrats have refused to accept. My colleague Russell Berman wrote yesterday afternoon that Senator Peter Welch of Vermont believes that the Biden campaign may be at an end; more telling is that Russell described Welch as the only member of the upper chamber making that argument, but from the time that Russell wrote that article to this afternoon, three more sitting Democratic U.S. senators—Sherrod Brown of Ohio, Jon Tester of Montana, and Martin Heinrich of New Mexico—called for Biden to step down.

The case for Biden leaving the race is evident to anyone who’s watched him over the past month. He seems to be no better in his public outings than he was during the debate, and has sometimes seemed worse. As I’ve said here, I don’t think that means he can’t run the country for the remainder of his term, but Trump is going to be fired up and on the road, and I doubt that Biden can match that level of engagement, which could be decisive in a race that will be won on slim margins in a handful of states. I suspect that the people voting to save democracy would vote for Biden if he were governing from a cryostatic tube, but the Democrats calling on him to wrap it up have perfectly valid fears that he could lose and take the down-ballot races with him.

Meanwhile, the Republican National Convention was a searing reminder that Trump is a vengeful autocrat with obvious mental deficits who has surrounded himself with a crew of vicious goons.

I approached Trump’s speech with genuine curiosity. I was for most of my life a working political scientist, and I have written speeches for politicians; I think I know a good one when I see one. So I watched last night to see if Trump, tamed by a brush with death, would strike a new tone or, at the very least, try to make peace with one of his most hated enemies: the teleprompter.

No chance. To be fair, some people who watched the speech thought that the first 10 minutes or so, in which Trump recounted being injured, were good, even thoughtful. I thought they were terrible; although Trump and his people have emphasized Trump’s defiance in the moment after he was hurt, his blow-by-blow account of the incident came across to me as creepy and solipsistic rather than brave.

Contrast that with Ronald Reagan, the previous president injured in an attempt on his life. Karen Tumulty of The Washington Post reminded us today that Reagan appeared before Congress a month after he was nearly killed. (His injuries were severe and life-threatening.) Reagan was on the Hill to talk about the economy, but he started by thanking the country for its prayers and good wishes, noting a cute letter he got from a child while he was in the hospital, and paying tribute to the people injured alongside him. This digression took all of four paragraphs, a matter of a few minutes. “Now, let’s talk about getting spending and inflation under control and cutting your tax rates,” he then said.

Trump, however, droned on about how much the human ear can bleed, while the screens behind him showed huge pictures of blood on his face. He then went over to the equipment owned by Corey Comperatore, the volunteer firefighter killed in the attack, and kissed the helmet. Some in the crowd may have loved it, but I prefer a bit more stoicism in national leaders; I’ve always thought that Trump’s penchant for hugging and kissing flags was weird, and planting a kiss on the headgear of a dead man was even weirder.

And then things really went off the rails. If you didn’t sit through it, I can’t blame you; it was the longest presidential-nomination-acceptance speech on record. Basking in the friendliest audience he will ever find on this planet, Trump couldn’t help himself. He was supposed to be like a band at a concert doing a tight set, playing some favorites for the loyal fans, introducing a little new material, and gaining a wider audience. Instead, he blew the chance and ran overtime as he noodled, improvised, and even mangled some of his classics.

The speech wasn’t written that way, of course, but Trump can’t stick to a script. You can always tell when Trump is trying to read the teleprompter: His shoulders tense up, he cocks his head and squints, and he rushes through words he has clearly never seen before. It doesn’t help that Trump’s writers stuff his speeches with baroque constructions that are supposed to be soaring and majestic but that always end up sounding more like dollar-store Churchill imitations. Trump struggles with these complex sentences, and then he abandons them—and that is when the real Trump comes out, in all his whiny and aggrieved glory.

I do not have the space (or the endurance) to relive those moments with you, but they were the ramblings of a man who has serious psychological problems. All of it was on display last night: rage, paranoia, pettiness, desolating selfishness.

I’m always sorry to leave readers with these sorts of observations just before a weekend, but much of the media response to Biden’s troubles and Trump’s madness has been mired in equivalences that obscure what’s happening to both men, and what’s at stake for the nation. (As I was writing this, for example, a Washington Post newsletter arrived in my inbox and told me that the GOP had just wrapped up “an energized, focused convention.” That’s an interesting description of a Republican gathering that featured a sex worker, Hulk Hogan, and a spaced-out Trump.)

Yes, Biden is old, and he’s having trouble communicating. The people expressing serious concerns about him have good reason to worry about both his health and his ability to defeat Trump. He might be out of the race by next week. But Trump is mentally and emotionally unwell. He and his valet, J. D. Vance, are not going anywhere. The real tragedy is that, in a serious country, Biden might step down without incident, and a normal race would continue, because decent people would have banished Trump from the public square long ago."
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Re: 2024

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Jul 21, 2024 6:20 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:47 pm
jhu72 wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:21 pm I do not believe Moore or Shapiro want the VP position, in fact I think Moore has come out and said he will remain MD governor, he is not interested in President this cycle.

Beshear is good, Kelly is good. Personally l like Kelly best, something of an American hero (for VP).

Kamala will generate more excitement with the base than any of the named.

You know I think back, didn't the democrats nominate and win with some guy in a wheelchair. Can't remember his name. Was president a bunch of times. Wish I could remember his name.
I believe when people see Kamala eat Donald’s lunch head to head, they may have a different opinion of her. Someone with have a brain will come across much better than The Donald. His act has gotten stale. Saw Mark Burns using his schtick. Right down to the “I can’t see in the back…is the Mainstream Media here…..? The people in the audience look bored. Crowds look smaller, older and poorer…. Kamala is much smarter than him and she has a logical mind developed as a career prosecutor. A friend told me years ago, he would hate to be married to her and have to answer her questions😂😂😂
I would hate to be married to her and listen to that annoying cackling laugh. As to if she is smarter than trump, her IQ is right up there with a turnip. Hell even AOC wants her off of any ticket if Joe pulls the plug on his 2nd term. I find it hard to believe Harris will ever resonate with mainstream Americans.
But you don’t find it hard to believe that Donald Trump resonated with mainstream Americans?
“I wish you would!”
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