Israel and West Bank Settlements

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
jhu72
Posts: 14456
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by jhu72 »

... don't misunderstand, her position was largely unnoticed by me, it was only after many years of being married that it really dawned on me. Her position never offended me. My mother-in-law was a different story. My wife tells me that her mother always had a problem with "aunt Barbara", as did my wife's grandmother and grandfather, both holocaust survivors. Families are just weird things. :lol:
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
jhu72
Posts: 14456
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by jhu72 »

Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
PizzaSnake
Posts: 5296
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by PizzaSnake »

“All settlements in the occupied West Bank are considered illegal under international law. Outposts are settlements considered illegal even under Israeli law. There are nearly 200 all across the West Bank, according to the activist group Peace Now.
Many of the small outposts have close links to over 140 larger settlements recognised by the Israeli state though deemed illegal under international law. The broad language used in the FinCEN alert could mean financial transactions with all West Bank settlements could be affected.
Richard Nephew, a former state department coordinator on global anti-corruption in the Biden administration, said the financial crimes alert combined with the newly announced sanctions and the G7 declaration “create a pretty toxic environment”.
“That is the goal,” Nephew, author of The Art of Sanctions and now a senior research scholar at Columbia University, said. “The goal is to make it so that financial institutions, companies and others say: ‘This just isn’t worth it’, because the risks of actually falling into a sanctions problem or to a compliance problem, if you’re a US entity, is just simply too great.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... -west-bank
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
User avatar
OuttaNowhereWregget
Posts: 7085
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:39 am

Senator Rubio's Succinct Assessment

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

Blatantly obvious attempt for a GOTCHA! quote only serves Rubio a golden opportunity to direct the attention where it should be. In the face of such lame attempts to shame and (inadvertently?) run cover for Jew-hating Hamas by the woman posing the questions--it really is this plain.

User avatar
NattyBohChamps04
Posts: 2796
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:40 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

'Jews try to assassinate Trump!' Antisemitic theories and calls for violence surge

Former President Donald Trump's rally assassination attempt in Butler, PA sparked antisemitic conspiracy theories and calls for violence, according to the ADL.

Wild stuff, and unsurprising.
jhu72
Posts: 14456
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by jhu72 »

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:24 pm 'Jews try to assassinate Trump!' Antisemitic theories and calls for violence surge

Former President Donald Trump's rally assassination attempt in Butler, PA sparked antisemitic conspiracy theories and calls for violence, according to the ADL.

Wild stuff, and unsurprising.
... not even a little surprising. It has to be a conspiracy, and who better than the Jews. :roll: These are Trump's people.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
User avatar
OuttaNowhereWregget
Posts: 7085
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:39 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

ANALYSIS
With victory starting to slip away, Deif strike comes at worst time for Sinwar
Hamas’s Gaza leader was sure he was winning as the world piled on Israel and the IDF spun its wheels; now, even if his main co-conspirator survived, the momentum has shifted

By Lazar Berman

For nine months, Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar was riding high even as he hid deep underground.

“We have the Israelis right where we want them,” Sinwar told other Hamas leaders, according to a June report in The Wall Street Journal.

Sinwar’s approach to hostage talks was evidence of his confidence. After the week-long November ceasefire, Hamas turned down every Israeli and international proposal.

And why wouldn’t it? The longer Sinwar waited, the more his situation improved.

Israel slowly, then quickly, became a pariah abroad, as even its close allies called for an immediate ceasefire that would leave Hamas standing.

Only days later, Norway, Ireland and Spain declared that their countries would recognize a Palestinian state, giving support to Hamas’s idea that the extreme violence it carried out on October 7 would bring historic gains for the Palestinian people and exacerbate Israel’s demise.

The Biden administration also slid noticeably away from Israel as time went on.

After saying in October that he had “no confidence in the [death toll] number that the Palestinians are using,” President Joe Biden treated Hamas figures as gospel in his State of the Union address.

The US president had pledged to Israel in October that “we are going to make sure you have what you need to protect your people, to defend your nation.” But in an attempt to head off a major IDF operation in Rafah — where Sinwar may well have been hiding surrounded by hostages — the White House subsequently held up weapons shipments, including heavy bombs needed to reach tunnels deep underground.

Shocking Israel, and likely encouraging Hamas, the US withheld its veto on a March United Nations Security Council resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip without directly conditioning it on a hostage release.

Sinwar, a close observer of Israeli politics, would also certainly have noticed the growing domestic anger at Netanyahu as the months passed. Protests by hostage families and their allies merged with anti-Netanyahu demonstrations, and more Israelis called for an end to the war — without Hamas routed — if it meant the hostages would come home.

The IDF, too, seemed to be pushing Netanyahu to accept a ceasefire in Gaza, even at the price of leaving Hamas in power for now.

And throughout, pressure on Israel to do everything it could to reach a deal meant that Jerusalem was offering far-reaching concessions to Hamas without even managing to get talks restarted.

Trends on the military front also gave Sinwar reason to sit back. The scale of the IDF operation peaked in late 2023, and over the early months of 2024, IDF forces gradually left the Strip until only one brigade remained.

The war, it seemed, was largely over.

The shift
With the worst of the military pressure ostensibly behind him, and Biden doing everything he could to prevent a massive Israeli operation in Rafah, Sinwar thought he had little to fear.

But something shifted in recent weeks.

Assessing that Israel had indeed gone a very long way in trying to forge a deal, the US began placing blame directly on Hamas for the failure to reach one and for the suffering of Gazan civilians.

“Hamas could have answered with a single word: ‘Yes.’ Instead, Hamas waited nearly two weeks and then proposed more changes — a number of which go beyond positions that it had previously taken and accepted,” US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said during a June visit to Qatar, soon after Israel’s latest proposal was delivered.

“As a result, the war — [which] Hamas started on October 7 with its barbaric attack on Israel… will go on.”

Moreover, the US political calendar has also been coming into play. With the Biden administration focused on domestic politics after the president’s disastrous debate performance last month, there is no reason to expect any drastic new pressure on Israel from Washington before the presidential election. Saturday’s assassination attempt on Donald Trump will further hold the attention of the US media and administration.

The Biden administration seems to be treating the ongoing attempts to restart talks as the last chance to reach a deal. The president took the drastic step of publicly laying out Israel’s offer on May 31, and has ensured that fellow mediators Egypt and Qatar are fully engaged with the effort.

If Hamas does not agree to this proposal, the US may well give up its attempts to hammer out a deal before November, and indicate to Israel that it agrees that there is nothing left to try other than intensified military pressure.

There’s no question that the IDF campaign has been expanding of late.

Last week’s return to Gaza City was a surprise escalation, as Israeli forces moved quickly in significant numbers back to Gaza’s main city. The aggressiveness of the operation could be seen in the evacuation orders, which were issued to “everyone in Gaza City,” not to residents of specific neighborhoods, as was the case in the past.

The Rafah operation, begun in early May, has gone well for Israel, but it has left a significant part of the city unconquered. The IDF has instructed its forces not to cross a certain line — perhaps because of intelligence about the location of hostages, perhaps because of agreements with the US — and they are waiting to take the rest of Rafah. If all hope of a deal dissipates, Netanyahu will likely give the green light.

It is also clear that Hamas’s dream of rousing the West Bank to a third intifada has failed. Though there is a steady drumbeat of terrorist attacks, the number of incidents is down drastically from the year before October 7.

Much of that is due to the IDF taking off its gloves against Hamas and other terrorist groups in the West Bank, but there are other key factors. The Palestinian Authority understands what a Hamas-led future would mean for its own survival and for the Palestinians, and has been sharing intelligence with Israel and arresting terrorists in West Bank cities.

PA officials are openly lambasting Hamas. Munir Al-Jaghoub said on Sunday in an interview with the Saudi al-Arabiya outlet, “If Hamas wanted to fight face-to-face with Israel, it would’ve done so in areas where the army is located, and not in places where there are people. Hamas is actually hiding between the residents to protect and save itself.”

PA President Mahmoud Abbas also said that Hamas bears “legal, moral, and political responsibility” for Israel’s war in Gaza.

The influential business communities in the northern West Bank cities of Jenin and Nablus are also firmly opposed to attempts by youths in the refugee camps to establish new terror groups and destroy their livelihood. That pressure is one of the reasons aspiring terrorists have fled south to the Nur Shams camp near Tulkarem, which has since become a locus of West Bank terror.

Hezbollah is continuing to strike Israel, and with increasingly sophisticated methods. Its major achievement came in the early days of the war, as it turned the northern border area into a military zone devoid of citizens. But there are limits on how much it will endanger itself for Hamas, and it is not about to stop Israel from moving ahead militarily in Gaza.

And then came Saturday’s strike on Mohammad Deif.

Walls closing in?
Israel still has not confirmed whether it killed Hamas’s elusive military leader. But the IAF carried out a massive attack on the compound where intelligence indicated he was hiding, seeking to ensure that he would not escape once again with his life. Israel seems confident he was at that location to meet with Khan Younis brigade commander Rafa’a Salameh. The question now is whether Deif left for some reason minutes before the strike.

It is hard to think of anything that would ramp up the pressure even further on Sinwar than the elimination of Deif. Both men grew up in Khan Younis’s refugee camp and joined Hamas at the same time. Deif is — or was — a trusted partner. And, more than any other figure, Deif is responsible for Hamas’s military build-up — turning a collection of terror cells into the organized force that invaded southern Israel and slaughtered 1,200 people on October 7, and the 24 battalions that the IDF has been battling inside Gaza since.

Even if Deif turns out to have escaped again, the fact that Israel knew exactly where he was and determined that bombing the compound was legitimate — even with civilians in the area, because of the essential military value of the targets — should give Sinwar further reason to worry about his own fate. Netanyahu and Israel’s war leadership continue to promise they will reach him, and Israel’s intelligence on Gaza is only improving the more its soldiers map out tunnels and interrogate captured Hamas fighters.

Notably, after Saturday’s strike, while characteristically denouncing Israel for the deaths of civilians, Hamas’s officials were still quick to deny rumors that it was pulling out of hostage talks — indicating that it sees a deal as more pressing than in the past.

If Sinwar is indeed feeling the walls closing in and ultimately agrees to release hostages, it will be at least a partial vindication of Netanyahu’s oft-mocked war strategy. He has insisted throughout that Israel will reach Hamas’s leaders, and that only the combination of military pressure and diplomacy can bring hostages home.

The true test, after the strike on Muhammad Deif, is whether this military pressure will now finally push Sinwar into a deal.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-vict ... or-sinwar/
OCanada
Posts: 3565
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OCanada »

Thete is friction between Israel and the US bcs there is friction in their ultimate goals.

Israel has a tradition of placing a poison pill in its proposals knowing Hamas would not accept them, the reverse is also true. The core goals of each are mutually exclusive. A third party by default has to tske the lead in getting to peace.
jhu72
Posts: 14456
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by jhu72 »

OCanada wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:13 pm Thete is friction between Israel and the US bcs there is friction in their ultimate goals.

Israel has a tradition of placing a poison pill in its proposals knowing Hamas would not accept them, the reverse is also true. The core goals of each are mutually exclusive. A third party by default has to tske the lead in getting to peace.
+100

It is a one way relationship. The US gets very little out of it, and nothing the US can't do for itself. It has caused the US a lot of trouble over the decades (as predicted by George Marshall). The US has taken a moral position that made a lot of sense, morally in 1948. That is no longer the case. Time for the US position to move into the 21st century.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 15816
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by youthathletics »

jhu72 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:46 am
OCanada wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:13 pm Thete is friction between Israel and the US bcs there is friction in their ultimate goals.

Israel has a tradition of placing a poison pill in its proposals knowing Hamas would not accept them, the reverse is also true. The core goals of each are mutually exclusive. A third party by default has to tske the lead in getting to peace.
+100

It is a one way relationship. The US gets very little out of it, and nothing the US can't do for itself. It has caused the US a lot of trouble over the decades (as predicted by George Marshall). The US has taken a moral position that made a lot of sense, morally in 1948. That is no longer the case. Time for the US position to move into the 21st century.
Can you be more specific, please.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
jhu72
Posts: 14456
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by jhu72 »

youthathletics wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:52 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:46 am
OCanada wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:13 pm Thete is friction between Israel and the US bcs there is friction in their ultimate goals.

Israel has a tradition of placing a poison pill in its proposals knowing Hamas would not accept them, the reverse is also true. The core goals of each are mutually exclusive. A third party by default has to tske the lead in getting to peace.
+100

It is a one way relationship. The US gets very little out of it, and nothing the US can't do for itself. It has caused the US a lot of trouble over the decades (as predicted by George Marshall). The US has taken a moral position that made a lot of sense, morally in 1948. That is no longer the case. Time for the US position to move into the 21st century.
Can you be more specific, please.
Stop blindly favoring Israel. The problem is the current Israeli government doesn't really want piece. They are real estate developers. In 1948 the Muslim world, their governments ganged up on Israel, promised their total destruction. That is no longer the case. The bulk of the Muslim world wants peace with Israel. Hamas and the Israeli government don't want peace -- it is bad for the two existing power blocks.

American society is coming to see the truth, the current favoring of Israel is dying among the young, it will advance quickly. It is time for the government to see the truth and act on it. Biden has taken a small step in the right direction.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
a fan
Posts: 19545
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by a fan »

jhu72 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:08 pm Hamas and the Israeli government don't want peace -- it is bad for the two existing power blocks.
That's exactly it.


i will say this....the 15 minutes of fame for this issue has expired. Anyone notice that there are ZERO headlines about Gaza now?

Now we're back to same ol', same ol'.
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 15370
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by cradleandshoot »

a fan wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:18 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:08 pm Hamas and the Israeli government don't want peace -- it is bad for the two existing power blocks.
That's exactly it.


i will say this....the 15 minutes of fame for this issue has expired. Anyone notice that there are ZERO headlines about Gaza now?

Now we're back to same ol', same ol'.
Well the students haven't gone back to college yet. I'm sure they'll pick up right where they left off.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
njbill
Posts: 7504
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:35 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by njbill »

a fan wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:18 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:08 pm Hamas and the Israeli government don't want peace -- it is bad for the two existing power blocks.
That's exactly it.


i will say this....the 15 minutes of fame for this issue has expired. Anyone notice that there are ZERO headlines about Gaza now?

Now we're back to same ol', same ol'.
That’s right. Gaza has now been supplanted by the big story of the day: Republicans wearing bandages on their ears at the convention. :roll:
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 15370
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by cradleandshoot »

njbill wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:54 am
a fan wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:18 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:08 pm Hamas and the Israeli government don't want peace -- it is bad for the two existing power blocks.
That's exactly it.


i will say this....the 15 minutes of fame for this issue has expired. Anyone notice that there are ZERO headlines about Gaza now?

Now we're back to same ol', same ol'.
That’s right. Gaza has now been supplanted by the big story of the day: Republicans wearing bandages on their ears at the convention. :roll:
Trump was wearing one big bandage for what was a flesh wound. The objective was quite clear, make his wound look more serious than it was.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
runrussellrun
Posts: 7583
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:07 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by runrussellrun »

PizzaSnake wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:00 am “All settlements in the occupied West Bank are considered illegal under international law. Outposts are settlements considered illegal even under Israeli law. There are nearly 200 all across the West Bank, according to the activist group Peace Now.
Many of the small outposts have close links to over 140 larger settlements recognised by the Israeli state though deemed illegal under international law. The broad language used in the FinCEN alert could mean financial transactions with all West Bank settlements could be affected.
Richard Nephew, a former state department coordinator on global anti-corruption in the Biden administration, said the financial crimes alert combined with the newly announced sanctions and the G7 declaration “create a pretty toxic environment”.
“That is the goal,” Nephew, author of The Art of Sanctions and now a senior research scholar at Columbia University, said. “The goal is to make it so that financial institutions, companies and others say: ‘This just isn’t worth it’, because the risks of actually falling into a sanctions problem or to a compliance problem, if you’re a US entity, is just simply too great.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... -west-bank
for a minute there, sucks, thought they were talking about Guam, and some of the other US "settlements" across the globe


carry-on, Raytheon sure does .

among others
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
runrussellrun
Posts: 7583
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:07 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by runrussellrun »

njbill wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:54 am
a fan wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:18 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:08 pm Hamas and the Israeli government don't want peace -- it is bad for the two existing power blocks.
That's exactly it.


i will say this....the 15 minutes of fame for this issue has expired. Anyone notice that there are ZERO headlines about Gaza now?

Now we're back to same ol', same ol'.
That’s right. Gaza has now been supplanted by the big story of the day: Republicans wearing bandages on their ears at the convention. :roll:
we know, right

due to the Covid outbreak, DNC will certainly be wearing masks
or better yet Biden can take Clare a Covid emergency… Really driving in the stake that the only option is invoking the 25th amendment


The big hero, Jamie Raskin can lead the charge like he did/does, and funding the killing machine industry and especially Israel
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
User avatar
Kismet
Posts: 5014
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:42 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Kismet »

Houthis Claim Responsibility for Drone Attack That Evaded Israeli Defense Systems

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/16/us/p ... livan.html

"The drone crashed into a building near the U.S. Embassy branch office in Tel Aviv, killing at least one person. Israel’s military said the drone had likely come from Yemen, where the Houthis are based.

The Iran-backed Houthi militia claimed responsibility for a rare drone attack in central Tel Aviv that crashed into a building near the United States Embassy branch office early Friday, killing at least one person and wounding eight others.

Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, the Israeli military spokesman, told reporters that Israel’s defense systems had apparently picked up the drone but failed to register it as a threat. No air-raid sirens were activated to warn civilians of the attack, despite Israel’s extensive aerial defense system."


In other mideast military news - USS Eisenhower (CVN69) returned to Norfolk VA after extended deployment. Replaced by USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN71) now deployed off the coast of Yemen
jhu72
Posts: 14456
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by jhu72 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 6:36 am
a fan wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:18 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:08 pm Hamas and the Israeli government don't want peace -- it is bad for the two existing power blocks.
That's exactly it.


i will say this....the 15 minutes of fame for this issue has expired. Anyone notice that there are ZERO headlines about Gaza now?

Now we're back to same ol', same ol'.
Well the students haven't gone back to college yet. I'm sure they'll pick up right where they left off.
.... the kids are still in the streets, all over the western world. Just not getting the coverage by the press. Stories now on the back page and single column, small print. There is not as much interest by the readers.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
jhu72
Posts: 14456
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by jhu72 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:37 am
njbill wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:54 am
a fan wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:18 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:08 pm Hamas and the Israeli government don't want peace -- it is bad for the two existing power blocks.
That's exactly it.


i will say this....the 15 minutes of fame for this issue has expired. Anyone notice that there are ZERO headlines about Gaza now?

Now we're back to same ol', same ol'.
That’s right. Gaza has now been supplanted by the big story of the day: Republicans wearing bandages on their ears at the convention. :roll:
Trump was wearing one big bandage for what was a flesh wound. The objective was quite clear, make his wound look more serious than it was.
... not much more than a shaving cut.

When I was in my twenties I was home alone and cutting my hair - trimming it. Accidentally cut my ear lobe, never seen so much blood. No pain. Didn't need stiches or anything, just stuck the two pieces together, held them in place with my fingers, they adhered to each other in ten minutes. It healed in a few days.

Of course Trump and his cult are making more of the wound then is warranted. He was lucky, not warrior or god like. :roll:
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS”